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Guild Wars 2 |OT3| Two Week Updates, One Box, Zero Subscriptions
- Thread starter Retro
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infinitely easier said than done thanks to the skillpoint requirements.
Yeah, I was hoping for something like this. I don't want to do content I've already been doing, except in a fashion that's mandatory and sometimes time consuming.
The Blackrose
Member
To be fair, I came back pretty late for Rekz's foray into Borlis. Hence the unfamiliarity to the opposition. I had left for FFXIV release, which was around the time we swapped from Ehmry Bay to Dragonbrand. Following that was the merge with Night Shift to form a serious WvW/GvG centric group. By the time I started showing interest in GW2 again, I found out that Rekz splintered off again and was on Borlis.
BTW, it was an absolute shock, considering Rekz's history with Borlis from both Ehmry and NSP. I never want to face the same two servers for 17 weeks straight ever again.
Someone invited you, remember to go into the guild tab ("G") and click Represent to see guild chat!
Apparently you need to explore completelyyyyyyy a lvl 80 zone to unlock a tier 1 trait for engineer >.>
Look at this
http://dulfy.net/2014/04/19/gw2-traits-unlocking-guide/
Look at this
http://dulfy.net/2014/04/19/gw2-traits-unlocking-guide/
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
wat
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Yeah, me thinks they need to go back and review this and some other ones.
They should make those adept trait ones easier to do at the level the trait is available, but the unlock cost for them is 2 skill points and 10 silver, so I'm not getting in a huff about it. Even as a new player just reaching 30, AC Story is both easier and more rewarding than it used to be, so that's not an onerous cost. I can't imagine who would possibly choose to 100% frostgorge over that, so it should be changed to be something simple a level 30 can do.
I actually like most of the activities they picked to unlock stuff except for the 100% a zone ones, that's just boring.
I actually like most of the activities they picked to unlock stuff except for the 100% a zone ones, that's just boring.
I was hoping they would announce skill points becoming account-bound with this patch, but nope. I wonder how long it will take, considering it is already used as a currency.
One could argue it would overpower low level characters and make them miss the experience of cautiously using skill points, but you can get a similar process by simply holding skill scrolls into your bank, so this is not exactly doing anything new.
One could argue it would overpower low level characters and make them miss the experience of cautiously using skill points, but you can get a similar process by simply holding skill scrolls into your bank, so this is not exactly doing anything new.
Oh, I think I was thinking of the Chinese version.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Perhaps a bit boring, but it gets the players familiar with what zone completion involves and the rewards associated.
It's just some of the zone choices seem way out of whack compared to the trait level.
hockeypuck
Member
Now that critical damage has been nerfed I've finally looked into changing the guardian build I've stubbornly been using since launch, basically x/0/6/6/x (formerly x/0/30/30/x). It has served me very well and I enjoyed ripping conditions off my teammates in dungeon runs. But WvW zerging is such a different beast that converting a single condition to a boon is pretty pointless in 25 vs 25. Plus the conditions are so light in PvE that most people can take care of their own conditions without my help. I really shouldn't be taking that white mage role. I have seen the light and that is meditations/consecrations.
I now find guardian shouts to be overrated in WvW, since they provide hardly any offense. In zerg v zerg, it's all about who starts getting spiked first, since that leads to rallies. That domino effect really picks up after the first 3-4 defeated, in my view. Yesterday I changed my build to 1/6/6/0/1 and confirmed that Renewed Justice (Radiance Master minor) is so broken. There are times I literally cannot press F1 fast enough since it has NO cooldown. I'm constantly giving everyone around me burning capability and might. This plus the +300 condition damage I now have makes burning a nice bonus so I now use Judge's Intervention and Purging Flames. Smite Condition is great for condi removal with low CD. To make up for the healing I lost when I got rid of Altruistic Healing, I traited for Monk's Focus and it seems to work well enough. Judge's Intervention teleport also greatly helps with the WvW guardian's problem of catching up or running away in the vast expanses, something the shouts couldn't do.
Now that I no longer have +300 to Healing, I feel like Shelter is inadequate. I really wanted to make Litany of Wrath work since I was using other meditations but I wasn't DPSing fast enough in smaller skirmishes. Signet of Resolve is what I use.
Since I'm being more offense-minded in these zerg fights, I need to change my Elite. Renewed Focus has always been the de facto PUG guardian elite. It sucks. I always had the mindset to use that elite as an "Oh shit" button and try to get away from a zerg that's trying to kill me. I'm a guardian. I'll never outrun anyone. I was just delaying the inevitable. The only time I found it useful was using it to run through the enemy zerg to get into my contested tower/keep.
So I changed to the human racial elite, Reaper of Grenth. This is an awesome elite in zerg fights. I pop it, then run into battle. It's 15 seconds of AoE chill and poison, so it's both CC and heal-depriving to the enemy, great assets to our zerg. Another great thing about it? Once I activate it, I can continue running around and use all my other skills. That makes it better than Necros' Plague elite, since their skill bar is replaced. This human elite even allowed me to run away from a thief trying to 222222222 me, since the thief was constantly getting chilled and his 22222222 started traveling less distance, LOL.
I'm still tryng to finetune the last two points of my traitline. I'm happy with the x/6/6/x/x foundation. None of the other three Adept lines feel as mandatory to me. Vigorous Precision was nerfed but 50% uptime is still good. Master of Consecrations seems good to go with my Purging Flames, but 10% virtue recharge and boon duration are worthless to me, especially since I'm less boon reliant now. I guess I'll have to keep 1 point into the Virtues line for Inspired Virtues since I'm spamming F1. Then for that last trait point I'll have to choose between Zealot's Speed or Vigorous Precision. What to do...
I now find guardian shouts to be overrated in WvW, since they provide hardly any offense. In zerg v zerg, it's all about who starts getting spiked first, since that leads to rallies. That domino effect really picks up after the first 3-4 defeated, in my view. Yesterday I changed my build to 1/6/6/0/1 and confirmed that Renewed Justice (Radiance Master minor) is so broken. There are times I literally cannot press F1 fast enough since it has NO cooldown. I'm constantly giving everyone around me burning capability and might. This plus the +300 condition damage I now have makes burning a nice bonus so I now use Judge's Intervention and Purging Flames. Smite Condition is great for condi removal with low CD. To make up for the healing I lost when I got rid of Altruistic Healing, I traited for Monk's Focus and it seems to work well enough. Judge's Intervention teleport also greatly helps with the WvW guardian's problem of catching up or running away in the vast expanses, something the shouts couldn't do.
Now that I no longer have +300 to Healing, I feel like Shelter is inadequate. I really wanted to make Litany of Wrath work since I was using other meditations but I wasn't DPSing fast enough in smaller skirmishes. Signet of Resolve is what I use.
Since I'm being more offense-minded in these zerg fights, I need to change my Elite. Renewed Focus has always been the de facto PUG guardian elite. It sucks. I always had the mindset to use that elite as an "Oh shit" button and try to get away from a zerg that's trying to kill me. I'm a guardian. I'll never outrun anyone. I was just delaying the inevitable. The only time I found it useful was using it to run through the enemy zerg to get into my contested tower/keep.
So I changed to the human racial elite, Reaper of Grenth. This is an awesome elite in zerg fights. I pop it, then run into battle. It's 15 seconds of AoE chill and poison, so it's both CC and heal-depriving to the enemy, great assets to our zerg. Another great thing about it? Once I activate it, I can continue running around and use all my other skills. That makes it better than Necros' Plague elite, since their skill bar is replaced. This human elite even allowed me to run away from a thief trying to 222222222 me, since the thief was constantly getting chilled and his 22222222 started traveling less distance, LOL.
I'm still tryng to finetune the last two points of my traitline. I'm happy with the x/6/6/x/x foundation. None of the other three Adept lines feel as mandatory to me. Vigorous Precision was nerfed but 50% uptime is still good. Master of Consecrations seems good to go with my Purging Flames, but 10% virtue recharge and boon duration are worthless to me, especially since I'm less boon reliant now. I guess I'll have to keep 1 point into the Virtues line for Inspired Virtues since I'm spamming F1. Then for that last trait point I'll have to choose between Zealot's Speed or Vigorous Precision. What to do...
shysaursoft
Member
The megaserver I'm on has been trying to succeed in escorting from Meddlers to Anchorage to start the Arah pre, for an hour. And it's been a ton of fun. Even though we've failed every single run, they're only 10 minutes apart and people are slowly learning. Lot of new level 80s here, it seems - many asking 'is 21k on final swing of Hundred Blades good?' kind of questions (and nobody answering, which means either a) nobody knows or b) everyone's too ashamed to say).
Still, everyone's working together, forming little strategies, assigning roles like Chan res squad and etc, and this single, barely noticable event, a total blip in the grand scheme of things, is being more fun than a fully organized Taco.
Still, everyone's working together, forming little strategies, assigning roles like Chan res squad and etc, and this single, barely noticable event, a total blip in the grand scheme of things, is being more fun than a fully organized Taco.
So, ever since Metal Gear Solid came out, it feels like everybody has to have stealth in their games. The idea of sneaking around pre-dates MGS by quite a bit, but the actual mechanics of it didn't really come into vogue until about that time. Then suddenly everyone has it, even in places where it obviously does not fit, and that trend continues today (Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 has some especially ugly, tacked on stealth-sections). There are three big problems with stealth that most games don't handle well; non-holistic implementation, a criminal overuse of "stealth-as-puzzle" and communication of status.
The first is the one we'll deal with, though I do want to say that no game has really nailed the communication aspect like Mark of the Ninja and you should all go buy it because it is very good. I always want to point out that the "stealth-as-puzzle" mechanic is why stuff like Splinter Cell is garbage because it's not so much about being sneaky in any realistic way so much as solving an elaborate puzzle (often using only trial and error) with overly severe failure penalties. Those are completely irrelevant to this post, but whenever stealth comes up I let myself bitch about those two things because.
So, non-holistic implementation, or adding in stealth without considering the big picture (i.e. the whole game). There's a lot of reasons to include stealth in a game, from a thematic niche that expands the variety of gameplay all the way down to "because it's something everybody has so why not Game X in too". It's gotten to the point where several generations of games now just adapt the same sort of stealth mechanics because they "worked" before.
I suppose we have to distinguish between stealth as a technique, not as a gameplay mechanic. The easiest way to add stealth to any game is to include a button that lets you turn invisible, but I think we can all agree that being invisible when trying to stay out of sight is like having a tactical nuke in a shooter. It's kind of like cheating and it becomes an annoying trump card specific classes get that then has to be balanced against their other abilities (i.e. spike damage), leaving them as annoying one-trick ponies built around the imbalanced mechanic that defines them.
My ideal stealth situation is one where the stealth is natural and skill-based rather than build around an artificial mechanic. Any player should theoretically have access to stealth, because staying out of sight is something anyone can theoretically do... except when the game isn't built holistically with stealth in mind (i.e. there are giant nameplates over your head so people can see you from 5 miles away.) Right off the bat, looking at the big picture, nameplates have to go. Tab-targeting has to go. Being able to call targets can remain, but it has to be location-based, so you're saying "There's a guy in this area" not "kill the thing with the giant mark on it." Basically anything that allows a player to be seen or targeted in a way that isn't based on another player's ability to discern their presence based on visual or aural evidence alone. Then, in theory, a player would be able to dye their armor green, stand in the bushes and have enemies walk right past them, or find refuge in the shadows not because they specifically use Shadow Refuge The Thief Skill™ but because other players can't see in the dark. The player has to put the work in, not just hit a button and turn invisible.
There are automatic balancing issues here that can take advantage of the fact that this is a videogame. Heavy armor reflects light more than leather, which reflects more than cloth. Dangly shiny bits aside, you're more likely to see a player in metal armor because it's shiny, even when dyed. Especially in the dark. Likewise, the sound design for metallic armor is noisy and clangy, while footfalls in leather and cloth are comparably quiet. Thus, even though heavy armor classes can hide, it is harder for them to do so, with the trade off (at least in theory) being that they can survive an open fight better.
Stealth as a game-wide option rather than a profession-specific mechanic means that it becomes an effective method for ambush, but also to avoid a fight before it begins or escape one after it has started. I'll hit those last too quickly before I dig into the first because that's going to lead into a bigger discussion, "Why play a thief if everyone can stealth?".
So, avoiding an attack is incredibly useful in PVP and WvW, especially when scouting but generally any time a huge blob of players could be just around the corner (which is to say all the time.) Likewise, getting away is useful too, but it's impossible without the invisibility button. Imagine how things would change if that were different. Places like the Ruins of Power would become places of refuge with all the obstructions, twisting underwater routes and little hidden crannies. You could out-maneuver an enemy and turn the tables on them, or separate a group as they spread out looking for you and pick them off one at a time. If you know the terrain and anything about psychology. Which is infinitely more cool but much harder to design than invisibility. Thieves already have a huge advantage in that they can usually dictate when combat begins and ends, fully embracing stealth as a skill, not a mechanic makes it a little fairer for everyone.
So where does that leave Thieves, assuming we still want to fill the rogue archetype (which is basically a fantasy RPG staple at this point)? You can still support stealth without having full-on invisibility. We mentioned being able to see in the dark earlier; improved 'natural' light radius would be useful for thieves trying to avoid detection (other classes should be able to trait into it too). Shadow-stepping feels appropriate for the profession in general; since they're meant to be stealthy, being able to jump around feels perfect, especially to turn a corner and then shadow-step the other direction, or using Shadow Return to disappear behind a pursuer. More of that is always good as mobility and evasion has always felt more appropriate to me. They're still getting the tools to dictate when combat begins or ends and on what terms (picking favorable terrain would be a huge part of playing the profession), which feels right for the thief, but it's not so simple as turning invisible and slinking away.
Stealing is still a nice mechanic, though I wish it had a few quality of life changes (a short description of what the item you've stolen does, appearing above the initiative gauge would be useful for new thieves). They could also incorporate a unique class boon or conditions to give them an edge (for example, thieves could be the only class with access to a sort of "Super Vulnerability" condition, given their archetypical abilities at finding weak spots in their victims for a quick assassination).
Mechanic-based stealth itself is not all bad either. For example, an ability that allowed you to turn transparent (not invisible) when standing still would be perfect, allowing you to stand in the shadows or dense foliage and avoid detection. Likewise, a trait that allowed you to extend the duration of this semi-invisibility to a few seconds of movement would be a nice use too. Mesmers would be great at creating decoys and then standing still to throw people off. I'd love it if Mesmers had a skill that allowed them to create a clone that ran straight ahead (pathfinding, I think, is probably too much to hope for) and caused some adverse effect if attacked. Likewise, creating a smoke screen that actually obscures players' sight of an area would be interesting, especially used at choke points and especially if the thief can use different kinds of smoke ("Is that poison gas or just harmless smoke?!" and can the thief actually turn one into the other at will?). Or double down on traps.
There's also something to be said for giving thieves a niche as the terrain-abusing profession, like giving them the ability to climb up surfaces. This will never happen in Guild Wars 2 (too easily abused, too easy to break outside the map, etc.), but it's an option that breaks the "Thieves = Invisible" approach. For a game to really take advantage of it, there'd need to be multiple layers to every area, with thieves being able to move between the regular ground and the overhead layer (darting between tree-branches, support beams, column tops or if you want to get really crazy, going all Spiderman across the ceiling.) At that point though, it's become almost like building two games, but if every profession could take advantage of it (or other 'layers' of the world) in some way it might be worth it. Still, even without going to that extreme, you can still imagine a thief scaling a wall in WvW and being able to pick the locks on the gates from within. It would create absolute chaos, but chaos is something I think WvW needs anyways (I'm of the mind that it's just too predictable).
The problem is, it's too late for these kind of changes to come to Guild Wars 2, so we're basically stuck with Cheap Invisible Thieves forever. But I still wanted to talk about it because. At least GW2 gets the pace right, a lot of MMOs build in movement-speed delays with stealth which means Thief / Rogue players have to creep along to be effective while everyone else charges in or has to wait.
The first is the one we'll deal with, though I do want to say that no game has really nailed the communication aspect like Mark of the Ninja and you should all go buy it because it is very good. I always want to point out that the "stealth-as-puzzle" mechanic is why stuff like Splinter Cell is garbage because it's not so much about being sneaky in any realistic way so much as solving an elaborate puzzle (often using only trial and error) with overly severe failure penalties. Those are completely irrelevant to this post, but whenever stealth comes up I let myself bitch about those two things because.
So, non-holistic implementation, or adding in stealth without considering the big picture (i.e. the whole game). There's a lot of reasons to include stealth in a game, from a thematic niche that expands the variety of gameplay all the way down to "because it's something everybody has so why not Game X in too". It's gotten to the point where several generations of games now just adapt the same sort of stealth mechanics because they "worked" before.
I suppose we have to distinguish between stealth as a technique, not as a gameplay mechanic. The easiest way to add stealth to any game is to include a button that lets you turn invisible, but I think we can all agree that being invisible when trying to stay out of sight is like having a tactical nuke in a shooter. It's kind of like cheating and it becomes an annoying trump card specific classes get that then has to be balanced against their other abilities (i.e. spike damage), leaving them as annoying one-trick ponies built around the imbalanced mechanic that defines them.
My ideal stealth situation is one where the stealth is natural and skill-based rather than build around an artificial mechanic. Any player should theoretically have access to stealth, because staying out of sight is something anyone can theoretically do... except when the game isn't built holistically with stealth in mind (i.e. there are giant nameplates over your head so people can see you from 5 miles away.) Right off the bat, looking at the big picture, nameplates have to go. Tab-targeting has to go. Being able to call targets can remain, but it has to be location-based, so you're saying "There's a guy in this area" not "kill the thing with the giant mark on it." Basically anything that allows a player to be seen or targeted in a way that isn't based on another player's ability to discern their presence based on visual or aural evidence alone. Then, in theory, a player would be able to dye their armor green, stand in the bushes and have enemies walk right past them, or find refuge in the shadows not because they specifically use Shadow Refuge The Thief Skill™ but because other players can't see in the dark. The player has to put the work in, not just hit a button and turn invisible.
There are automatic balancing issues here that can take advantage of the fact that this is a videogame. Heavy armor reflects light more than leather, which reflects more than cloth. Dangly shiny bits aside, you're more likely to see a player in metal armor because it's shiny, even when dyed. Especially in the dark. Likewise, the sound design for metallic armor is noisy and clangy, while footfalls in leather and cloth are comparably quiet. Thus, even though heavy armor classes can hide, it is harder for them to do so, with the trade off (at least in theory) being that they can survive an open fight better.
Stealth as a game-wide option rather than a profession-specific mechanic means that it becomes an effective method for ambush, but also to avoid a fight before it begins or escape one after it has started. I'll hit those last too quickly before I dig into the first because that's going to lead into a bigger discussion, "Why play a thief if everyone can stealth?".
So, avoiding an attack is incredibly useful in PVP and WvW, especially when scouting but generally any time a huge blob of players could be just around the corner (which is to say all the time.) Likewise, getting away is useful too, but it's impossible without the invisibility button. Imagine how things would change if that were different. Places like the Ruins of Power would become places of refuge with all the obstructions, twisting underwater routes and little hidden crannies. You could out-maneuver an enemy and turn the tables on them, or separate a group as they spread out looking for you and pick them off one at a time. If you know the terrain and anything about psychology. Which is infinitely more cool but much harder to design than invisibility. Thieves already have a huge advantage in that they can usually dictate when combat begins and ends, fully embracing stealth as a skill, not a mechanic makes it a little fairer for everyone.
So where does that leave Thieves, assuming we still want to fill the rogue archetype (which is basically a fantasy RPG staple at this point)? You can still support stealth without having full-on invisibility. We mentioned being able to see in the dark earlier; improved 'natural' light radius would be useful for thieves trying to avoid detection (other classes should be able to trait into it too). Shadow-stepping feels appropriate for the profession in general; since they're meant to be stealthy, being able to jump around feels perfect, especially to turn a corner and then shadow-step the other direction, or using Shadow Return to disappear behind a pursuer. More of that is always good as mobility and evasion has always felt more appropriate to me. They're still getting the tools to dictate when combat begins or ends and on what terms (picking favorable terrain would be a huge part of playing the profession), which feels right for the thief, but it's not so simple as turning invisible and slinking away.
Stealing is still a nice mechanic, though I wish it had a few quality of life changes (a short description of what the item you've stolen does, appearing above the initiative gauge would be useful for new thieves). They could also incorporate a unique class boon or conditions to give them an edge (for example, thieves could be the only class with access to a sort of "Super Vulnerability" condition, given their archetypical abilities at finding weak spots in their victims for a quick assassination).
Mechanic-based stealth itself is not all bad either. For example, an ability that allowed you to turn transparent (not invisible) when standing still would be perfect, allowing you to stand in the shadows or dense foliage and avoid detection. Likewise, a trait that allowed you to extend the duration of this semi-invisibility to a few seconds of movement would be a nice use too. Mesmers would be great at creating decoys and then standing still to throw people off. I'd love it if Mesmers had a skill that allowed them to create a clone that ran straight ahead (pathfinding, I think, is probably too much to hope for) and caused some adverse effect if attacked. Likewise, creating a smoke screen that actually obscures players' sight of an area would be interesting, especially used at choke points and especially if the thief can use different kinds of smoke ("Is that poison gas or just harmless smoke?!" and can the thief actually turn one into the other at will?). Or double down on traps.
There's also something to be said for giving thieves a niche as the terrain-abusing profession, like giving them the ability to climb up surfaces. This will never happen in Guild Wars 2 (too easily abused, too easy to break outside the map, etc.), but it's an option that breaks the "Thieves = Invisible" approach. For a game to really take advantage of it, there'd need to be multiple layers to every area, with thieves being able to move between the regular ground and the overhead layer (darting between tree-branches, support beams, column tops or if you want to get really crazy, going all Spiderman across the ceiling.) At that point though, it's become almost like building two games, but if every profession could take advantage of it (or other 'layers' of the world) in some way it might be worth it. Still, even without going to that extreme, you can still imagine a thief scaling a wall in WvW and being able to pick the locks on the gates from within. It would create absolute chaos, but chaos is something I think WvW needs anyways (I'm of the mind that it's just too predictable).
The problem is, it's too late for these kind of changes to come to Guild Wars 2, so we're basically stuck with Cheap Invisible Thieves forever. But I still wanted to talk about it because. At least GW2 gets the pace right, a lot of MMOs build in movement-speed delays with stealth which means Thief / Rogue players have to creep along to be effective while everyone else charges in or has to wait.
shysaursoft
Member
We finally managed to succeed in the escort, cleared Anchorage, succeeded in all three pre-Arah events, and stomped the Risen High Wizard so hard it barely took 3 minutes.
There's the GW2 I love.
Earlier I ressed some [GAF] people at Grenth too.
There's the GW2 I love.
Earlier I ressed some [GAF] people at Grenth too.
hockeypuck
Member
I have no qualms about near perma-stealth glass-cannon thieves in WvW. They're the ultimate roamers and are nicely balanced to have little to no role in zerg vs zerg. Stealth is useless amidst all that AoE, so the best these thieves can do in large scale battles is take out their short bow and pew-pew from the sidelines, akin to a poor man's ranger without the support or the AoE. I actually view ganking thieves as doing evolution's work; they pick off the stragglers, the undisciplined. Unless you're specifically hunting roamers about, in which case you should also be playing a thief, WvWers should stay in a pack of some size. Stray off to chase a squirrel, you earned that ganking by a stealthed thief.
Play smart, use your bases as safe havens, then join up with the zerg at the right time. Only times I've been ganked was when I stupidly went squirrel-chasing. I'm learning my lesson.
I personally have a bigger issue with engineers and their ability to freely toss hard-hitting AoE grenades behind their backs like confetti at a ticker-tape parade.
Play smart, use your bases as safe havens, then join up with the zerg at the right time. Only times I've been ganked was when I stupidly went squirrel-chasing. I'm learning my lesson.
I personally have a bigger issue with engineers and their ability to freely toss hard-hitting AoE grenades behind their backs like confetti at a ticker-tape parade.
That's kind of the problem though, they only have that one role and are ineffective everywhere else, likely because stealth gives them such an advantage that giving them anything else would simply be too much.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
FYI, that's sort of how Elder Scrolls Online handles their stealth. Every class has the ability to go undetected, but it's not overpowered since doing most actions reveal you as well as entering someone's field of vision. It adds a whole lot to their RvR because small group tactics are actually viable and a whole new level of strategy because now you have to account for stealth squads and anti-stealth squads outside the zergs. You still have your thief/assassin class (Nightblade), but when every class can stealth somewhat, it adds a new dimension to the PvP. It's one of the few things that game does right.
hockeypuck
Member
Non-zerker thieves can nicely complement a zerg with their Dagger Storm elite, which has a low CD for an elite. In addition to the CC, it also serves as a defensive reflect. The shortbow blast finisher is the best one in the game, great for building might and swiftness. The thief just has to know if he or she can sustain in the middle of a zerg fight or stay in the periphery. To me a tankier thief with dual daggers seems like the best application of Death Blossom, an otherwise wasteful skill in PvE, for applying AoE bleeds in a zerg vs zerg.
shysaursoft
Member
Reports coming in that all maps are now megaserver, including all the 1-15 zones.
Damn, b. I think most people in this thread were predicting the rollout wouldn't be complete until the end of this year.
The one thing that always convinced me to give TES games a second chance despite hating Daggerfall, and Morrowind, and Oblivion, is that they had very loose definitions of class and basically let you build your own by picking which skills you wanted to improve. I'm very much in favor of an skill-based approach vs. a class-based approach.
That's pretty much how I roll on my thief since I dislike the stealth-based approach, I've found Shadow Refuge can also be handy as well for the life steal and blindness you can combo out of it. I don't usually play my thief in WvW though, I generally feel (as I said above) sort of ineffective. Could be my build (mostly acrobatics and trickery) or gear (I don't like glass cannon so I went PVT with Zerker accessories).
Completely unrelated, but I'd LOVE to see Thieves get Rifle as a weapon choice in the future, watching the Sniper Warrior builds come out makes me really want something like that for thieves. The problem, of course, is that everything has to be balanced against the roamer-ganking stealth thieves which is kind of what I was getting at.
Whichever one gives you +5 to Caffeine. Arah Story mode was nerfed pretty hard way back when, so that even the tough parts are pretty fast and easy, while the last section (which was always "just Spam 2") is now an exercise in staying awake. Probably the game's biggest disappointment.
My own Thief runs a Settler's set, so can hang out in ZvZ fights no problem. My main issue comes from damage output, because the first minute or two of the fight is when all the condition clears come out. I need to survive past that and then start putting on Bleeds. Poison from Shortbow does help until then, as well as the Blast Finisher.
On Stealth as a gameplay mechanic, it honestly comes down to three variables. Can you see a person who is in stealth (can you see shimmering or are they not really invisible)? Can you do something to disrupt a person who is already in stealth? Can they attack while in stealth, and if yes, how much damage can they do? In the case of those three things, Guild Wars 2 really stacks the deck towards the stealthing player. First strike advantage is strong, and stealth also hides both your position and your animations.
On Stealth as a gameplay mechanic, it honestly comes down to three variables. Can you see a person who is in stealth (can you see shimmering or are they not really invisible)? Can you do something to disrupt a person who is already in stealth? Can they attack while in stealth, and if yes, how much damage can they do? In the case of those three things, Guild Wars 2 really stacks the deck towards the stealthing player. First strike advantage is strong, and stealth also hides both your position and your animations.
Jest Chillin
Member
As a Thief (main) I don't like the stealth dancing builds and wish there could be something done about them that wouldn't then make the non-stealth dancing builds suffer. The class is built so much around Stealth as it's survivability though that I don't know how they could really do that. They only way I could really see working that would require changing the resources system from one that starts high and lowers through skill use to the more common start with none and builds resources. This would require a Thief to stay visible for awhile to build up the resources needed for the burst payoff. This would probably require an entire reworking of the class though, changing the skills to GCD and needing to give it non-stealth survivability options. Just not really feasible I suppose.
For more realistic desires... I'd just like to see more consideration given to S/D, SB, and Dual Pistol builds.
For more realistic desires... I'd just like to see more consideration given to S/D, SB, and Dual Pistol builds.
hockeypuck
Member
Thieves can be traited to stealth upon using their steal F1 skill. Steal is a teleport move.
Sounds more like a dagger/pistol thief though. 6 into the trickery tree only reduces steal to about a 21-second or so cool down so it doesn't really work for the "teleporting around while gaining stealth constantly" part.
The full health part is beyond me unless they're in full zealots or something. Breaking combat would give full health easily but it sounds like roughly 3-5 people so he'd be in range of a lot of stuff. I've never found the grand master healing in stealth trait particularly strong but it adds up. This doesn't sound like it's a case of all of those small heals adding up though.
The full health part is beyond me unless they're in full zealots or something. Breaking combat would give full health easily but it sounds like roughly 3-5 people so he'd be in range of a lot of stuff. I've never found the grand master healing in stealth trait particularly strong but it adds up. This doesn't sound like it's a case of all of those small heals adding up though.
I'm trying to remember if it was DDO or Rift that had their Thief profession develop 'focus' by using specific attacks against an enemy to expose their weak spots. I seem to recall those attacks being back-stab oriented, with the idea being your friends would distract the enemy and you'd be behind them sticking daggers in their tender spots.
Something I thought would be cool (before we got details) was the Thief being more assassination-oriented in that the longer they targeted an enemy, a gauge would fill up that activated new skills at set thresholds. It would have basically worked like stealing in that every enemy would have a specific set of attacks you'd use against them, so fighting a Minotaur would unlock different skills from fighting Risen. The idea being that the profession wasn't just an adventurer or solider, but a professional, expert killer who could size up their prey quickly and efficiently.
The best part was that each boss would have had their own unique Thief mechanics that would change up the boss fight significantly, making a thief somewhat of a "Boss Assassin" you'd bring to shake things up. I had a similar idea for a 'sage' class in LotRO that didn't really fight so much as it supported everyone else by being smart and sharing that knowledge in combat.
Jest Chillin
Member
That's a really interesting mechanic for a Thief/Assassin but one that ultimately only works for PvE being that PvP often requires quick target swapping. Still it seems like it would be fun to play, especially if the attacks didn't unlock in optimal order. So not only would a player have to learn the various different attacks that would unlock as they fought a new enemy type, it would take time to learn the optimal pattern for greatest effect.
hockeypuck
Member
Stealth thieves can't capture a control point, IIRC. As long as I'm holding point, they can't do jack to a bunker guardian. With less open field, and control points determining who wins, thieves who heavily rely on stealth are more predictable in sPVP. As a guardian, use the hammer, use the blocks from mace and focus, put down AoEs around you, and you'll know the thief will have to come to you, not the other way around. Every second they spend in stealth regenerating health, the bunker player is on capture point racking up to 500.
UltimateIke
Member
Just gotta finish some WvW maps, and I'll finally be done.
So close.
So close.
And then we can do dungeons <3Just gotta finish some WvW maps, and I'll finally be done.
So close.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Stealth is only good for dungeon rushing D:
Also when are we getting new living story
Also when are we getting new living story
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