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Guild Wars 2 |OT5| We've got fun and games

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this game really isn't grabbing me

I dunno, it just kind of seems like a standard MMO besides the way weapon switching and abilities work

I'm still below level 15, though

maybe it gets better?

Guild wars 2 is a standard MMO with signficant changes in mechanics that removes most of the terrible aspects of MMO. It feels more organic than other MMO, but it is still just that an MMORPG. It removes a lot of the "work" required in an MMO.

If you hate the genre or are more story driven you are better off playing FF14 or sticking to single player games.

Another thing to consider is playing a different class. The class you play has a big impact on your enjoyment. Some people in the past have stated that they felt like quitting until they started a new class and go hooked. But like I said, guild wars 2 is still an MMO with less of the "worked" required to progress and more organic than your standard themepark.
 

Morokh

Member
I've been mulling over Nike's post as well and I disagree with him, but I won't say he's wrong or that his suggestion is necessarily a bad idea for the scenario he has stated (which has a moderate chance of occurring). Essentially he's advocating buffing classes by increasing the number of targets for certain beneficial effects in order to make them more valuable. This checks out, as buffing classes that lack strong group support or nerfing those that are too strong are the standard options to solve an issue like this.

My issue isn't so much with that post he made in particular, but what he's said regarding raiding in the past and the implications it has on this suggestion. He's stated several times that for CGC (now raids) in order for it to actually be challenging it must be aimed at what is optimal otherwise the challenge will be trivial. This means its balanced against ascended rather than exotic, etc. The implication then is that he wants raids to be balanced against an ideal party, which with his proposed changes would include one of most classes for their unique passive buffs. So rather than having a party stacked with classes that are in the current meta, we'd have a more even distribution. Of these choices the more even distribution is preferable because it allows a wider variety of classes to experience the content.

However, his suggestion ignores the fact that in the past ANet has pushed for malleable group makeup because they don't want the problem of waiting to enjoy content where you have to wait for your tank to get on or everything falls apart because your healer's kid got sick. If they follow Nike's suggestion and tune the content to match, it will create that exact problem, only instead of having a pool of classes that can fill a role we'd need to wait for several specific classes instead which is worse. I'd say the aspects that lend credence to his argument are his reputation as a dungeon runner/analyst and the scenario he has constructed here based on existing content. He's pulling from existing data which should lend credence to his argument, but he is also ignoring the fact that at the PAX panel they repeated that they still wanted team composition to be malleable. That you can take the class you want and fit them to the necessary role. For the brief few minutes I watched the post PAX stream with DnT, Nike didn't seem too pleased with this.

Since I am decidedly a casual style player I am in favor of the flexibility Arenanet has stated will exist. Since Nike wants content that will be challenging to the min-max speedrun crowd he wants content tuned to what is optimal which will necessarily lead to optimal teams. So I (and I assume many others in this thread) want something diametrically opposed to what Nike wants. If ANet fails to make their ideal a reality and it turns out the content is only doable by a specific meta team that only includes a few classes they should probably take his suggestion. Otherwise, if they succeed they shouldn't need to.

It's true that we're all speculating at the moment, but I feel like he's jumping the gun and making too many assumptions based on existing content. The post said to take it with a grain of salt, but from the responses he'd made last night to people questioning him, he seems to fully believe that what he's stated is completely true. Or maybe I'm mischaracterizing him, I can't be sure.

There is a reason why you felt like he doesn't like this idea of having this felxibility, and to be honest it has me a bit worried too, because basically it might pose a balance problem.

Let's face it, not every class is equal in every situation, so even regardless of what the actual 'meta' may be you will always have classes that will end up being sub-par in a situation or another.

In the case of Raids as really challenging content where supposedly everyone has to give their best to be able to achieve victory, how do you balance that when you design it around a team composition that will not be optimised, without making it a bit too easy to the people who will approach every encounter the most optimal way possible depending on the encounter ?
Because if you make it easy for those people, you kind of fail at being the hardest challenging content in the game...

Same thing about gear, people love to dismiss the difference between exotic and ascended, but in a Raid scenario it can mean the difference between making it, and barely making it.
You can easily see it in other MMO's where there is a gear treadmill, where, you beat the first boss, learn and master the mechanics of the second, but just can't make it past a certain point, then after farming the first boss a bit more you just gain that little something extra to allow you to get through that tough spot.

It's basically one of the 'red flags I was talking about.

Now I love their philosophy of not being stuck because you lack an important member of your group and I sure as hell hope they achieve that, because it's one of the most annoying things about raids, but they'll have to be extra careful with balance for sure.

Edit : Damn keyboard ! :mad:
 

Spyware

Member
After 3 years, three 80s, four 500 crafting professions, hours of end-game content, ascended weapon, ascended armor, 8K achievement points, amongst many other things...I have finally beat the game woot. Zhaitan defeated.
Haha! :D Conga rats!
I have played 3 years, have 28 level 80s, all crafting maxed, ascended stuff sprinkled everywhere, 18k cheevo points and... I have not defeated Zhaitan yet.
 
Haha! :D Conga rats!
I have played 3 years, have 28 level 80s, all crafting maxed, ascended stuff sprinkled everywhere, 18k cheevo points and... I have not defeated Zhaitan yet.

Get to it, i beat Arah story mode in Rare,Green gear, and 1 exotic piece.. those were the days when everything was new and shit was hard...
 

Spyware

Member
Get to it, i beat Arah story mode in Rare,Green gear, and 1 exotic piece.. those were the days when everything was new and shit was hard...
Some day :p I've not done any story in Orr with any character. Most are at Claw Island. I just think it's more fun to level new characters whenever I play :p
 

Fishious

Member
There is a reason why you felt like he doesn't like this idea of having this felxibility, and to be honest it has me a bit worried too, because basically it might pose a balance problem.

Let's face it, not every class is equal in every situation, so even regardless of what the actual 'meta' may be you will always have classes that will end up being sub-par in a situation or another.

In the case of Raids as really challenging content where supposedly everyone has to give their best to be able to achieve victory, how do you balance that when you design it around a team composition that will not be optimised, without making it a bit too easy to the people who will approach every encounter the most optimal way possible depending on the encounter ?
Because if you make it easy for those people, you kind of fail at being the hardest challenging content in the game...

Same thing about gear, people love to dismiss the difference between exotic and ascended, but in a Raid scenario it can mean the difference between making it, and barely making it.
You can easily see it in other MMO's where there is a gear treadmill, where, you beat the first boss, learn and master the mechanics of the second, but just can't make it past a certain point, then after farming the first boss a bit more you just gain that little something extra to allow you to get through that tough spot.

It's basically one of the 'red flags I was talking about.

Now I love their philosophy of not being stuck because you lack an important member of your group and I sure as hell hope they achieve that, because it's one of the most annoying things about raids, but they'll have to be extra careful with balance for sure.

Edit : Damn keyboard ! :mad:

Agreed. I can't really dismiss his argument because it's generally sound, but personally I don't want to see it happen because I want something very different than he does. However this thing shakes out there will be people who are unhappy because I feel the two concepts are mutually exclusive. You cannot have that flexibility and have it still be challenging for groups who are optimal in terms of gear, team composition, player skill, and teamwork.

My expectation is that raids will be the hardest content in the game as of HoT. They will probably be more challenging than dungeons and require greater diversity in terms of builds and team comps than existing content. If Anet is successful in what they seem to be aiming for, teams will probably need specific proportions of players filling soft roles. Each of these soft roles can be filled by most professions (as Elite specs seem to be trying to fill the existing gaps in class roles). So theoretically they can be done with any class composition, but people would need to spec to the particular needed role which while less flexible than current content still lessens the problem of needing to wait for a specific class.

After a few months the meta people will probably have it down to a science and it will no longer be challenging to them. Then those who follow the meta will begin adopting their compositions and strategies and gradually it will no longer be challenging to them either. So the question then is where will the bar be for how challenging raids should be. What percentage of the population should be able to complete them? Because the people who are above that bar will be dissatisfied, but setting it too high excludes the vast majority of the player base.

Personally I'd like it if the events inside the raids had bonus conditions like the Drytop events and have them pay out extra rewards for completing them. This could allow the baseline to be lower while rewarding and challenging very skilled players. The catch of course is that the rewards would have to be substantial enough to entice players to aim for them (especially if it would increase the time a run takes).
 
Discipline with Burst Mastery means that you'll always have a full bar while in Berserker mode (level 3 will give you 10 adrenaline which is the max for Berserker).

After testing it, Burst Mastery has no effect on Primal Bursts. You don't get any Adrenaline back after using one. Whether this is intended behavior or not, I can't say.
 
Reaper = Amazing. This greatsword is slow but does it feel yum. The Shouts are pretty cool but feels egotistical. I don't see the group support, but okay. All the other class shouts are very buff based.
Best part of Reaper? Reaper Shroud. Holy shit. Best effects in the game. Smoothest wreck-everyones-shit. I'm in awe. It takes Death Shroud, and completely owns it. I love the cool-blue-ish filter to it. Stunning.


Berserker = Positively surprised. Berserk mode feels powerful, fast and it looks a lot greater than in the PoI. When you activate it, your character has this cool molten effect. Now I really regret I went Radiant Armor set with my achievement point rewards. This is great. The rage skills are okay, but I still prefer Physical. I don't like the Elite.
I think the specialization tree is great.
Big surprise? Torch skills are great, fast and feels like a melee weapon. They sorta remind me also of Necro Axe.


Daredevil = Amazing. It's everything I wanted. The physical skills are cool, the endurance is great, and the grandmaster traits choices are really powerful. I prefer the bound option (doing a sommersault jump when dodging, and doing damage on the ground). The auto is great and so are the other skills. Great synergy with the rest of Thief.
This one is a game changer.


Revernant = First time playing Revernant, and besides Herald, I am not feeling it. I am surprised that I am so underwhelmed by staff (compared to Daredevil and Reaper Shroud). I liked Glint / Shiro the best.
Hammer and Mace/Axe and Sword/Sword couldn't hold my attention. I guess it's okay. It's more different than I imagined and the class confuses me. Navigating the healing tablet with Ventari is super difficult and I am wondering if the micro management needed is so extreme, it will not be considered useful.
 
It takes time to get used to the Revenant. It's a whole new profession, so I don't blame you walrus

Great point! I need more time! But I am very happy! The only big speculation left is Druid for me. Not been playing my Ranger a lot - It's just a naked 80 being a bank. I wonder what it will be, how it will work.
Because if I like it, I will take Druid through HoT first as a Mordrem Sylvari (if I get the option)! It seems to be a great race/class combo to take into a jungle based expansion!



Daredevil is hands down the best Elite Spec....

It certainly is amazing! My biggest problem with Staff is that there are not enough Bo-Staff skins that fits the theme. Same goes for Revernant Staff!
 

Ashodin

Member
Guild Pillar looks pretty good for a melee staff.

Holy fuck the Herald is cool as fuck, you can keep facets up to three at a time to pulse out stats to people. Fucking sweet. OMG and the floor icon. It's like paladin auras.

lbhN3BQ.gif
 
Guild Pillar looks pretty good for a melee staff.

Holy fuck the Herald is cool as fuck, you can keep facets up to three at a time to pulse out stats to people. Fucking sweet. OMG and the floor icon. It's like paladin auras.

lbhN3BQ.gif

Haha, it's funny you said that. I just tried Monk Outfit + Guild Pillar + Engineer Starterbackpack. Looks really solid. Proper adventure.
 

Retro

Member
Looks like unrefined crafting materials are in the Map Bonus system; Mount Maelstrom is currently offering silk and gossamer as event rewards.
 

Ashodin

Member
Still not feeling the dragonhunter, as I thought. The elite spec seems to have some real synergy issues with other stuff in the guardian line. Also the most important changes (arrow velocity, 1/3s virtue of justice cast time, etc) aren't in this beta. Which makes it still feel underpowered.
 
The Warrior's Dual Wielding 15% attack speed bonus trait doesn't stack with Berserk Mode's 10% attack speed bonus. It only takes the larger bonus. :(
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
I reaaaaallly like the idea of the Reaper. Might have to level up a Necro.

Don't have access to the BWE though, can someone give me their impressions of the spec?
 

Ashodin

Member
Bug Fixes:
  • Fixed a server crash and a client crash.
  • Fixed an issue in which only completing the first event at the Noble Outpost during day or night would cause the next night phase to stall until the next cycle began.
  • Revenant
  • Facet of Nature: Fixed an issue in which this skill would not unlock properly with existing beta characters.

fixes to the beta
 

Retro

Member
Thoughts on Daredevil so far;
  • Punishing Strikes (Staff Chain #3)'s animation is a forward-facing twirl, but as near as I can tell it's a 360 degree attack. I feel like the animation should be more of a full body spin.
  • Weakening Charge (Staff #2) doesn't move you towards your target but rather whichever direction you're facing. With as dodge-centric as Daredevil is, it feels like it's very easy to use it in the wrong direction. Reaper Shroud #2 had a similar issue. If they keep it like it is, I feel like it should have some evade on it, then.
  • I'm not crazy about Dust Strike (I feel like it would be cooler as a short range AOE spin attack), but it's mostly utilitarian anyways and honestly, with as much jumping in and out as Staff seems to do, it's probably best it have some range anyways.
Overall I think Staff is fun, but not quite there yet; Weakening Charge just feels clumsy, but everything else has a purpose (I feel like rolling in and out with #2 and 3 is great). It's essentially the thief's survival-oriented melee weapon, already seeing lots of comments on Reddit complaining about the damage, but what else is new?
1sm067roll8turv.gif
  • Lotus Training (GM Trait, causes dodge to become Death Blossom) is amazingly cool and will fit nicely into condition builds. It's also the easiest of the three to use, I feel.
  • Unhindered Combatant (GM Trait, causes dodge to become dash) feels like it doesn't move far enough and has too much of an aftercast, but otherwise it's very cool. Might need to be slightly faster as well.
  • Bounding Dodger (GM Trait, causes dodge to become a leap attack) is a bit awkward to aim unless you point the camera straight down so your dodge basically doesn't travel. Neat, but it'll take getting used to.
The rest of the traits are fairly decent, though I was surprised there wasn't a more condi-oriented Master tier. So far I've been using Weakening Strikes (Weakness on crit), Staff Master (gain endurance when using staff skills, bonus damage when endurance isn't full) and swapping out the GM traits just to get a feel for them. A lot of the on-evade stuff will probably be worth using once people get a feel for the new dodges.

I haven't tinkered around with the Physical Skills too much, but so far Bandit's Defense is my favorite, just for having access to a block-and-knockdown. I do feel like Distracting Daggers should automatically throw a dagger when you 'equip' it instead of having to hit it twice. Fist Flurry is decent damage, I guess, but the stun feels too conditional to be reliable. Haven't tried the Heal, Elite or Impairing Daggers yet.

Overall, pretty cool. I can see people taking Daredevil and not utilizing Staff or the physical skills just to gain access to all that endurance and the special dodges. It's in pretty good shape overall, not nearly as bad as the Dragonhunter was (and is, since most of the big changes aren't in this BWE) or the Reaper during BWE1. I'm about to try Reaper again for a bit and then probably blow up my Beta Guardian and give Berserker a shot.

What is the map bonus system? Always need Silk for ascended gear.

In HoT, the old zones (except for the starting ones) are gaining a new "Map Bonus" system where you receive special items for completing event, jumping puzzles and mini-dungeons (it at first appeared random, but people figured out that it's based on chance, but if you didn't receive a reward for the last event, you have a 100% chance from the next one). Each zone has a specific set of rewards (so you can go to the zone that has exactly what you want), but it's supposed to change each week so you don't stay and farm the same zone forever. It's basically a reliable way to farm materials that doesn't involve standing in one spot forever, grinding on the same mobs.

Silk and Gossamer scraps are part of Maelstrom's Map Bonus, but you can also get stuff like Lodestones, Obsidian shards, even Unidentified Dyes and vendor items that sell for a decent amount.
 

Ashodin

Member
I feel like they revealed some of the specs early to get better feedback on them. Even so, I still feel like traps being melee placed creates this weird space that runs antithetical to the Longbow playstyle of the Dragonhunter.
 
My problem with Berserker so far is that every Warrior build I currently use fits together perfectly by using three of the existing core specs, and now I am having a hard time coming up with something new that doesn't feel like I am sacrificing a bunch of stuff to get the elite spec.

There are definitely reasons to use the elite, lots of fun traits and skills, I just have to stop myself from trying to drop it in directly as a replacement for one of the core specs. It exists for different reasons, so I need to come up with different approaches.
 

Ashodin

Member
That's exactly the feeling I get with Dragonhunter. It feels like it doesn't mesh well with other trait lines, I guess Virtues work? The problem is there needs to be more "if X, then get virtue back" stuff. Currently both are based on reviving yourself or a player.
 

Mxrz

Member
I ended up using daredevil with standard thief utility skills. The elite is a whole lot of fun and the heal is exceptionally good imo. Charr animations aren't wacky enough. I'll keep dreaming of my face punching class.

Going to try out Berserker with heavy condition damage. I'd argue these elite specs are more for wvw/pvp than typical dungeon-grinding-pve. I doubt the numbers will ever top what we have now from Ele (nerf frostbow, yeah? Sheesh), warrior, thief, guard, etc.

Rev is the most fun thing. I don't care if the (pve) community shits on it. Enjoying mine way too much. Mallyx and Shiro are where its at. Glint and Ventari are kind of eh, but that could just be the zergy nature of these open world BWEs.

Really dread having to re-earn all this mastery stuff though.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Glint/Shiro Rev is awesome

Also the new buffed Reaper is amazing. Love it. Easily the best Elite spec.
 

SourBear

Banned
I feel kind of bad. I went and preordered HoT and haven't really been enjoying the free beta weekends. Been too busy and kind of burnt myself out on the game in the months prior.
 
Glint/Shiro Rev is awesome
I'm looking to try out that and a Shiro/Jalis combination. How did you work the Shiro and Glint skills together while in battle? Curious to hear about actual application experiences.
I feel kind of bad. I went and preordered HoT and haven't really been enjoying the free beta weekends. Been too busy and kind of burnt myself out on the game in the months prior.

If you know you're going to get it regardless it's worth it for a free character slot unless you're confident you'll never use it.
 

Indignate

Member
Glad I rolled a Necro as my first character!

So the grind from 15-20 felt excruciating. It seems like it's story at every ten levels with hearts in between. I'm just going around doing hearts and any events that happen along the way. At around level 18, the hearts started to outlevel me, so it became a bit difficult as well. Aside from that, I'm finding the hearts to be rather boring and tedious at times and the events to be too difficult to complete alone (there are sometimes people around for these, other times not) so I'm wondering if is there anything else I could be doing instead or is this the loop until other content unlocks?
 
Glad I rolled a Necro as my first character!

So the grind from 15-20 felt excruciating. It seems like it's story at every ten levels with hearts in between. I'm just going around doing hearts and any events that happen along the way. At around level 18, the hearts started to outlevel me, so it became a bit difficult as well. Aside from that, I'm finding the hearts to be rather boring and tedious at times and the events to be too difficult to complete alone (there are sometimes people around for these, other times not) so I'm wondering if is there anything else I could be doing instead or is this the loop until other content unlocks?

Feel free to try other zones (you can access all the starter ones via lions arches portals), or do a bit of WvW, edge of the mists, craft a bit, or do some exploration. Basically everything in the game gives you XP toward your level.
 
Glad I rolled a Necro as my first character!

So the grind from 15-20 felt excruciating. It seems like it's story at every ten levels with hearts in between. I'm just going around doing hearts and any events that happen along the way. At around level 18, the hearts started to outlevel me, so it became a bit difficult as well. Aside from that, I'm finding the hearts to be rather boring and tedious at times and the events to be too difficult to complete alone (there are sometimes people around for these, other times not) so I'm wondering if is there anything else I could be doing instead or is this the loop until other content unlocks?

Yes, you're going about it all wrong. Don't do the hearts! Don't "grind" - Explore!

The idea is to run around find good events. Get your mining/pick axe/sickle from a vendor and start harvesting/mining/cutting trees - it gives great xp. then pick up a crafting profession and refine your materials. gives great xp as well.

Get to Lions Arch and explore the racial regions of the world, by taking portals to the capital cities and from there explore the zones. as you find vistas, outposts, villages, areas, waypoints, PoIs, jumping puzzles, (all of these things yield xp) bosses, and so on, you find events.

ignore the hearts- and you can ignore the story too. I just get to lvl 80 and then I do the story in one go. Remember-

Make sure to go grab some foods. and some sharpening stone. They give 10% xp on top of everything else. make sure your representing the guild (gives 10% more xp too). grab some salvage kits (blue ones are fine) and salvage your not used weapons. click the button in the top right, of your inventory pane and send the mats to your material bank.

also click B and jump into WvW. You get buffed to lvl 80 and you gain experience that counts toward your progress in PvE. your not up to snuff, but you can still do well in WvW if you band and stick together with a sizeable chunk of friendlies. Capture some keeps, kills some enemies, do some objectives. yields coin, xp, rewards, achievements, karma, loot (for your level) and more. Good stuff, and a nice break.


Whatever you do- stop following the hearts intentionally. they are literally counter-intuitive to what makes the game great. the game is really meant to explored, off the beaten path. Gamers are so used to breadcrum quests telling them where to go that many have lost their sense of just going out willy-nilly into the wild! Do it! It's a good idea to do all the starting zones. get the waypoints in all the cities, explore them.
 
I'm just going around doing hearts and any events that happen along the way

Almost everything in the game gives experience, so try them all:

- Exploring
- Tagging new waypoints
- Harvesting wood/herb/mineral nodes.
- Kill some yellow (non-hostile) monsters, they often are worth quite a bit of XP (things that haven't been killed in a while, get a bonus to their XP pool).
- Explore the other starter areas, like Plains of Ashford, Wayfarer Foothills, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest and Queensdale.

But mostly, try things and see what you enjoy!
 

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
People be doing the new areas with their beta characters and elite specs. And I'm doing CoF story with my Daredevil.
 
Reason not to run fractal with a beta character NO AR....damn person died a lot, then gets rewarded with an Ascended Armor Chest hahahahahaha :(
 

Dead

well not really...yet
I'm looking to try out that and a Shiro/Jalis combination. How did you work the Shiro and Glint skills together while in battle? Curious to hear about actual application experiences.


If you know you're going to get it regardless it's worth it for a free character slot unless you're confident you'll never use it.
Havent gotten too deep, but am rolling with Mace/Shield and Sword/Sword. Gonna look at Trait combinations when I play tomorrow. But so far I'm feeling pretty good about that Gear loadout.

Also, Reaper GS just MELTS dudes now. Fuuuuu. And as before, Dhuumfire RS Auto is insane
 
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