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Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- |OT| - Cross Play on a Heavy Day
- Thread starter Volcynika
- Start date
just downloaded this as well, what's the patch about?
Prototype-03
Member
I didn't have to download a patch recently- wonder what it was. Maybe only a ps3 thing?
Also, question: Elphelt's 5H is ridiculous anti-air. Wait... that's not a question, still- fuck that shit
I got the update yesterday too and I was on PS4. Not sure what it is either.
Awesome, now that you've learned the Kire Tatami motion, you can play Baiken in +R. :3
EDIT: Whoops, should've read further to see you guys weren't aware of patch 1.04: http://arcsystemworksu.com/guilty-gear-xrd-sign-ver-1-04-patch-notes/
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Cool I had no idea. After having a lot of fun with UNIEL for a month I think I'll come back to this. No idea how the changes for 1.10 are but I guess I still have to learn everyone from scratch. Ramlethal never really clicked with me.
Apologies, it's good that you pointed out the 236956 motion, and I agree it's pretty under the radar for the Ky-playing public. Definitely worth highlighting. I was just trying to hint at the fact that it's a series staple and has been applicable to other characters too before anyone writes it off as Ky-specific.
irfaanator
Banned
Or at least, that's what it seems to be from the few posts above.
Edit: Actually, it seems that it was supposed to improve the netcode, cross platform play, trophy fixes, and DLC announcer problems. Oh, and some typos. Haven't downloaded it myself.
Prototype-03
Member
It's decent. Almost no beginners though, so you may have some growing pains.
Prototype-03
Member
True story.
I just stop training and get hit by the same move 50 times in a real match before realizing it doesn't work.
Sin seems secretly really good. He's like lvl.4 Frank West except every so often he has to eat to keep his chainsaws... actually, he's like a Frank/Morrigan hybrid- he has chainsaws, but his goal is meter. If he gets 25% before running out of food while pressuring you, he gets to YRC a turkey and then pressure/chip you again. Loop indefinitely
Prototype-03
Member
He's not that great. Block low forever.
He has one standing overhead (which is really slow) and his j.D can get tricky. He does a lot of damage, but really needs to work for it. He also has no oki game, which kinda kills it.
Saying "block low forever" proves my point, no?
I'm saying he doesn't have to open you up- he can pressure you with nigh uncontestable normals/specials indefinitely when played well while he slowly chips you down. It doesn't matter that it's easy to block his overhead special and his dust on reaction.
irfaanator
Banned
oh man played a bit of elphelt yesterday. too much fun. too bad I have no idea what Im doing right now with the berry nade and shotgun stance.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
After finishing UNIEL I've been playing this on and off. Too bad the online it's pretty barren now.
Yo Xrd GAF- one thing that I find to be a huge hurdle getting better at Xrd is that each match-up is very different and if you dont know MU, you can get wrecked even if youre competent in general. I play against my friends Slayer all the time, so when I run into a random Slayer online, I can hold my own, but in many MUs, Im kinda lost. Moreso than other fighters Ive played, knowing how to fight AGAINST each specific character seems really important. Would people be willing to write up general advice for how to fight against their own character in the interest of hopefully raising everybodys level of play?
For example, I play Faust, so general non-character-specific stuff when it comes to fighting Faust would be:
-f.S one of his best normals, but many characters have moves that flat out beat it if timed correctly. Many characters 6Ps work great for this due to their upper body invincibility. Some characters have moves that can low profile it as well. Faust can use his 2HS instead, but then hes leaving himself open to IAD approaches.
-Faust relies heavily on his items, and any decent Faust player has some kind of plan for when they get a given item. When playing against Faust, its equally important to have your own plan to deal with each item. In general, when Faust throws a donut/chocolate, hes momentarily fucked because he cant throw another item until the food is either picked up or disappears. Picking up the food only gives a tiny amount of health, so its best to leave it alone and keep it on screen as long as possible, since it robs Faust of one his most important moves.
-Faust crumbles under pressure with slowish normals, his reliance on meter to DAA out of pressure, etc., so once you get in, you dont have to respect him quite as much as much of the rest of the cast (but be wary that he low profile a lot of stuff).
For example, I play Faust, so general non-character-specific stuff when it comes to fighting Faust would be:
-f.S one of his best normals, but many characters have moves that flat out beat it if timed correctly. Many characters 6Ps work great for this due to their upper body invincibility. Some characters have moves that can low profile it as well. Faust can use his 2HS instead, but then hes leaving himself open to IAD approaches.
-Faust relies heavily on his items, and any decent Faust player has some kind of plan for when they get a given item. When playing against Faust, its equally important to have your own plan to deal with each item. In general, when Faust throws a donut/chocolate, hes momentarily fucked because he cant throw another item until the food is either picked up or disappears. Picking up the food only gives a tiny amount of health, so its best to leave it alone and keep it on screen as long as possible, since it robs Faust of one his most important moves.
-Faust crumbles under pressure with slowish normals, his reliance on meter to DAA out of pressure, etc., so once you get in, you dont have to respect him quite as much as much of the rest of the cast (but be wary that he low profile a lot of stuff).
Karsticles
Member
Zato:
-Once the shadow is out, Zato will try to use a combination of drills and the shadow to put you into blockstun. If you get put into blockstun by the shadow, you're going to have to block for a long time. Try to poke the shadow, stay away from it, or get past it (best options, in order from best to worst).
-You can burst through unblockables, or block them with a just frame block.
-The shark shadow attack (-S-) is unblockable in the air without FDing.
-Pretty much nothing but Zato's 2K and the drill is + on block. There's no reason to respect an attempt at a pressure game without the shadow.
-Zato has nearly no offensive capacity without the shadow. This is your time to go in. However, he does have good counter-offensive tools with his drills and flight spacing.
-Zato has four main mix-up combinations:
Drill + Shark -S-
Drill and 2S + Buzzsaw
2P, 2K + -P-
j.K + Buzzsaw
These can be mixed and matched, but they are all generally low-only strings except for j.K + Buzzsaw, which can go into a double over head, empty jump (omit the j.K), or j.K, 2K for a high-low. It's his best mix-up that is also safe. Watch his jump height on the first j.K. If your opponent is high on the j.K, they will have to go double overhead because the 2K will come out too late to be a blockstring. All of the other mix-up sets mostly threaten with the command grab. A good Zato will have -S- ready to cover the command grab, so if you jump out of it, be ready to FD as well.
-Always remember that if Eddie (the shadow) is on you, a drill is just a moment away to protect him.
-Zato has 4 anti-airs, and they are all good in different situations. -S- is his best because he doesn't need to commit to anything himself. 6P has 1-16 upper body invincibility, but comes out really late. 2H is fast and has a hitbox much larger than it seems, especially near the ground - some Zato players will run up and do 2H because it can be drill canceled to be safe and catches jumps. 6H is really only useful for hard reads, but if it counter hits it can lead to bit damage.
-Zato's only good mid-range poke is 2S, and it can be counter-hit.
-Most of Zato's strings do not combo into the drill. 5H combos into the drill, and 2H combos into the drill on counterhit, but everything else needs a YRC to combo into the drill. If you are getting hit by a Zato string without Eddie involved, block down-back (drill hits low) and you won't suffer a knockdown.
-Zato has no good reversal options. His shark super has a dead zone right in front of Zato.
-Once the shadow is out, Zato will try to use a combination of drills and the shadow to put you into blockstun. If you get put into blockstun by the shadow, you're going to have to block for a long time. Try to poke the shadow, stay away from it, or get past it (best options, in order from best to worst).
-You can burst through unblockables, or block them with a just frame block.
-The shark shadow attack (-S-) is unblockable in the air without FDing.
-Pretty much nothing but Zato's 2K and the drill is + on block. There's no reason to respect an attempt at a pressure game without the shadow.
-Zato has nearly no offensive capacity without the shadow. This is your time to go in. However, he does have good counter-offensive tools with his drills and flight spacing.
-Zato has four main mix-up combinations:
Drill + Shark -S-
Drill and 2S + Buzzsaw
2P, 2K + -P-
j.K + Buzzsaw
These can be mixed and matched, but they are all generally low-only strings except for j.K + Buzzsaw, which can go into a double over head, empty jump (omit the j.K), or j.K, 2K for a high-low. It's his best mix-up that is also safe. Watch his jump height on the first j.K. If your opponent is high on the j.K, they will have to go double overhead because the 2K will come out too late to be a blockstring. All of the other mix-up sets mostly threaten with the command grab. A good Zato will have -S- ready to cover the command grab, so if you jump out of it, be ready to FD as well.
-Always remember that if Eddie (the shadow) is on you, a drill is just a moment away to protect him.
-Zato has 4 anti-airs, and they are all good in different situations. -S- is his best because he doesn't need to commit to anything himself. 6P has 1-16 upper body invincibility, but comes out really late. 2H is fast and has a hitbox much larger than it seems, especially near the ground - some Zato players will run up and do 2H because it can be drill canceled to be safe and catches jumps. 6H is really only useful for hard reads, but if it counter hits it can lead to bit damage.
-Zato's only good mid-range poke is 2S, and it can be counter-hit.
-Most of Zato's strings do not combo into the drill. 5H combos into the drill, and 2H combos into the drill on counterhit, but everything else needs a YRC to combo into the drill. If you are getting hit by a Zato string without Eddie involved, block down-back (drill hits low) and you won't suffer a knockdown.
-Zato has no good reversal options. His shark super has a dead zone right in front of Zato.
I'm not a particularly strong/smart Bedman, so some of these observations may be inaccurate, but...
Bedman - General
- Bedman's basic game plan is to get seals on the field and to leverage them to control space or lock down the opponent. If you're caught blocking near a seal, prepare to block for a while.
- Normals are even on block at best (5P, c.S, 2S), so he needs to rely on his Deja Vu mechanic and YRC to effectively reset pressure.
- His longest horizontally-reaching normals (1.5 to 2 character widths) are f.S, 2S, and j.S, and they are somewhat slow at 9f, 12f, and 10f startup, respectively. f.S can be low-profiled, and 2S can low-profile attacks.
- 2H and 3H reach further than the above, and are generally used to check people doing things from half-/full-screen. Super unsafe on whiff due to long recovery and extended counterhit state, but relatively safe on block if special-canceled. Can be YRC'd or PRC'd. Knowing the distances on these is vital to getting projectiles out safely.
- Bedman has an 8-way airdash, but it isn't Marvel fast. There is an 11f-long "air hang" before the air dash is performed, and he is unable to block or FD between that point and the end of the air dash. In 1.1, he will be able to FD out of the air hang.
Bedman - Defensive Options
- Anti-airs are 6P and situationally 5P and c.S.
- His forward ground dash has a parry / guard point window on frames 4-18. When successful, it teleports him behind the opponent. It doesn't seem like the teleport is punishable if Bedman blocks afterwards, but depending on the gatling/cancel options of the parried move, you may be able to meaty a normal on his re-appearance to beat any attack he puts out.
- Not typically used as a defensive option by competent players, but 6H has some strike invulnerability during its startup (frames 14-20). It is throwable for its entire duration.
- His only reversal is Helios (alarm clock super). It is +11 on block, but is only strike-invulnerable on startup.
Bedman - Specials
- Seals are left behind when Bedman performs a special. When activated (Deja Vu), seals create an after-image of Bedman that repeats the attack used to create the seal. They are removed when attacks or projectiles pass through them or disappear after 7s.
- Task A and Task A' (balls) and their Deja Vu can hit up to two times - once when going out and once on the return trip. Ground versions whiff on crouch / low profile moves. The projectile is removed prematurely if you hit Bedman or make him block after it is out.
- Task A' (teleport ball) is +9 on block, and Bedman appears on the side that the ball hits from.
- Task C (bed slam) is an overhead when Bedman is performing it but isn't when it's the Deja Vu. Air version is +0/+3 on block, depending on height performed.
- Deja Vu A and A' go away when Bedman blocks after the projectile is out. Deja Vu B (spin) and C continue even when Bedman is blocking.
Bedman - Mixups
The main mixup sources are:
- Task/Deja Vu A' left/right. This usually comes after a 2D knockdown, and watching the side that the ball connects on when you wake up will help with blocking the correct direction.
- Air dash mixups. Depending on his height and the direction of the air dash, Bedman can fit in up to 3 overheads before landing and going for a low.
Down: 1 at most, j.P or j.K
Down-forward: 2 at most, j.K or j.K > j.P
Forward: 3 at most, j.K > j.P > j.P or j.K > j.S
- Instant overhead j.D. This can only be done from point-blank range, and there's no further follow-up without Red RC or prior Deja Vu / YRC setup.
- Deja Vu A' high/low. On block or hit, Deja Vu A' interrupts Bedman's current action and teleports him to the ground beside the opponent. During a blockstring, this can allow for tricky situations where an overhead or air string is interrupted mid-animation for a 50/50 between 2K and j.D.
Bedman - General
- Bedman's basic game plan is to get seals on the field and to leverage them to control space or lock down the opponent. If you're caught blocking near a seal, prepare to block for a while.
- Normals are even on block at best (5P, c.S, 2S), so he needs to rely on his Deja Vu mechanic and YRC to effectively reset pressure.
- His longest horizontally-reaching normals (1.5 to 2 character widths) are f.S, 2S, and j.S, and they are somewhat slow at 9f, 12f, and 10f startup, respectively. f.S can be low-profiled, and 2S can low-profile attacks.
- 2H and 3H reach further than the above, and are generally used to check people doing things from half-/full-screen. Super unsafe on whiff due to long recovery and extended counterhit state, but relatively safe on block if special-canceled. Can be YRC'd or PRC'd. Knowing the distances on these is vital to getting projectiles out safely.
- Bedman has an 8-way airdash, but it isn't Marvel fast. There is an 11f-long "air hang" before the air dash is performed, and he is unable to block or FD between that point and the end of the air dash. In 1.1, he will be able to FD out of the air hang.
Bedman - Defensive Options
- Anti-airs are 6P and situationally 5P and c.S.
- His forward ground dash has a parry / guard point window on frames 4-18. When successful, it teleports him behind the opponent. It doesn't seem like the teleport is punishable if Bedman blocks afterwards, but depending on the gatling/cancel options of the parried move, you may be able to meaty a normal on his re-appearance to beat any attack he puts out.
- Not typically used as a defensive option by competent players, but 6H has some strike invulnerability during its startup (frames 14-20). It is throwable for its entire duration.
- His only reversal is Helios (alarm clock super). It is +11 on block, but is only strike-invulnerable on startup.
Bedman - Specials
- Seals are left behind when Bedman performs a special. When activated (Deja Vu), seals create an after-image of Bedman that repeats the attack used to create the seal. They are removed when attacks or projectiles pass through them or disappear after 7s.
- Task A and Task A' (balls) and their Deja Vu can hit up to two times - once when going out and once on the return trip. Ground versions whiff on crouch / low profile moves. The projectile is removed prematurely if you hit Bedman or make him block after it is out.
- Task A' (teleport ball) is +9 on block, and Bedman appears on the side that the ball hits from.
- Task C (bed slam) is an overhead when Bedman is performing it but isn't when it's the Deja Vu. Air version is +0/+3 on block, depending on height performed.
- Deja Vu A and A' go away when Bedman blocks after the projectile is out. Deja Vu B (spin) and C continue even when Bedman is blocking.
Bedman - Mixups
The main mixup sources are:
- Task/Deja Vu A' left/right. This usually comes after a 2D knockdown, and watching the side that the ball connects on when you wake up will help with blocking the correct direction.
- Air dash mixups. Depending on his height and the direction of the air dash, Bedman can fit in up to 3 overheads before landing and going for a low.
Down: 1 at most, j.P or j.K
Down-forward: 2 at most, j.K or j.K > j.P
Forward: 3 at most, j.K > j.P > j.P or j.K > j.S
- Instant overhead j.D. This can only be done from point-blank range, and there's no further follow-up without Red RC or prior Deja Vu / YRC setup.
- Deja Vu A' high/low. On block or hit, Deja Vu A' interrupts Bedman's current action and teleports him to the ground beside the opponent. During a blockstring, this can allow for tricky situations where an overhead or air string is interrupted mid-animation for a 50/50 between 2K and j.D.
Coming back from a good 4 month break, so I assume everyone is leagues better than me now lol.
With Ram getting nerfed to the ground in the new patch, I'm thinking about switching mains....How is Sol fairing in the new patch? This time I need a simple character since Xrd wont be my main fighting game anymore.
With Ram getting nerfed to the ground in the new patch, I'm thinking about switching mains....How is Sol fairing in the new patch? This time I need a simple character since Xrd wont be my main fighting game anymore.
Prototype-03
Member
Pretty sure the new Ram is going to be Slayer and Axl. Sol should still be good.
Good stuff on the Bedman write-up. Didn't know Helios was only strike invincible- time to test some stuff!
I randomly went online and did some player matches against a Zato last night after reading Karst's advice... and still got wrecked. I felt like I was doing better and better each time, but this was actually the first time I've been able to play against a Zato for consecutive matches. Still a long ways to go, but happy I found someone who was willing to stick around and play me for a while.
I randomly went online and did some player matches against a Zato last night after reading Karst's advice... and still got wrecked. I felt like I was doing better and better each time, but this was actually the first time I've been able to play against a Zato for consecutive matches. Still a long ways to go, but happy I found someone who was willing to stick around and play me for a while.
Prototype-03
Member
The only tactic that worked against Zato was to hit him first. He has really REALLY weak reversals so I just do whatever I want after a knockdown.
If I get hit though, GG me.
irfaanator
Banned
correct. elphelt was free the 1st week the game came out
Anything to get some discussion going! I've kind of resigned myself to having to learn a bunch of the cast (on some basic level) to even have a chance of fighting them.
I know I asked for character-universal tactics, but "Don't get hit!" is maybe TOO universal, haha.
Thanks.
Number one thing I'll do is more of a player thing, but I try to see how proficient the Zato player is at manipulating Eddie. A good Zato player will know how to weave Eddie around your attacks in neutral. Try killing it safely in neutral and see how they react.
Another is to check out how they start Eddie pressure. Most people online will get greedy and do Mawaru in a blockstring as soon as they can instead of a safer part.
Prototype-03
Member
Hah, I don't have a lot of Zato experience, but that's basically what went down for me. Obviously, I'm not that good.
The connection's gotten way better later. But yeah, give it a week man, I haven't actually made it that far >.>, it's these other guys you have to worry about. Welcome back, man!
Well, glad to hear it may not just be me having problems with xrd online. I recently spent almost 200 bucks to replace my PS3 and get a new copy of xrd so I could play on a wired connection and all day yesterday I had some of the worst connections ever. I was so pissed I wanted to return everything, immediately.