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Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- |OT| - Cross Play on a Heavy Day
- Thread starter Volcynika
- Start date
Has anyone managed to do the Sol combo on Mission 13? I've S Ranked all the missions up to that point but I can't figure out how to get Bandit Revolver to connect after the crouching drive sweep.
I've tried canceling out of the sweep IMMEDIATELY but I still can't get it to connect. It seems like I need to be closer to the opponent when the sweep connects but the combo always pushes me back. Am I missing something here or it's just a frame perfect thing?
Edit: Figured it out, you just need to make sure to input the next normal right after the hit is done, the timing is very precise but that allows you to cancel the sweep into Bandit Revolver and still have it connect.
I've tried canceling out of the sweep IMMEDIATELY but I still can't get it to connect. It seems like I need to be closer to the opponent when the sweep connects but the combo always pushes me back. Am I missing something here or it's just a frame perfect thing?
Edit: Figured it out, you just need to make sure to input the next normal right after the hit is done, the timing is very precise but that allows you to cancel the sweep into Bandit Revolver and still have it connect.
Lostconfused
Member
Yeah I was just worn out yesterday so that's what lead to that comment. Thanks for the write up though, its really interesting to see things from a different perspective.
One thing I can say though is that I have no wake up, post knockdown game at all. I need to figure out how to practice that. Because right now I just developed a horrible habit to dash into throw range. But I have no idea how to get practice in for okizeme without actually playing real people.
PS3 patch released
We should get some games in. I'm around your skill level or lower
psn: onem1c
We should get some games in. I'm around your skill level or lower
psn: onem1c
Wait, so you were playing without the PS3 patch? It released before 12:00 AM EST yesterday, which is what everyone was talking about on the previous page. That's the precise moment the online got fucked up for me, so you should probably try playing the game after it's applied and see what happens.
Ya, my PS3 didnt download it until after I went to bed. I'll try out the online and see what happens then.
AkelisRain
Member
What don't you like about them? I have been thinking of purchasing the HRAP.
Kuros are really mushy, some buttons have issues being sticky.
Man, some of the design choices that went into making this game... On one hand you have:
- Larger hit stops
- Slower dashes
- Huge buffer window for jump cancels
- Huge buffer window during YRC/PRC/RRC freeze
And a long list of changes, additions, and systems taken out of the game to make it more accessible.
But then you have things like 2 frames window for wake up reversals, no actual input buffer during regular situations and mashing to recover(something a lot of players complained about in BB for years until it was finally fixed in BB:CP).
Those two sets of choices go against each other to the point where the later actually ruin a big part of what they intended to achieve by the former. I feel like someone in the team was fighting against Xrd changes, and managed to win few battles during design meetings. >_<
- Larger hit stops
- Slower dashes
- Huge buffer window for jump cancels
- Huge buffer window during YRC/PRC/RRC freeze
And a long list of changes, additions, and systems taken out of the game to make it more accessible.
But then you have things like 2 frames window for wake up reversals, no actual input buffer during regular situations and mashing to recover(something a lot of players complained about in BB for years until it was finally fixed in BB:CP).
Those two sets of choices go against each other to the point where the later actually ruin a big part of what they intended to achieve by the former. I feel like someone in the team was fighting against Xrd changes, and managed to win few battles during design meetings. >_<
The standard or the LE? LE was delayed til the 23rd.
Outside mash to recover all that stuff seems to sync to me. I see it all as an effort to preserve offensive flow during oki/frame advantage - something that's easily interrupted in a game like SF4 if you're not playing high-level or haven't really conditioned your opponent.
Lostconfused
Member
Sure, I'll send a friend request when I get home if I don't have you on my list yet.
Most of his best stuff comes off a Bandit Revolver knockdown. Knowing when you can BR off of 2D is important, and it mostly depends on range and the character you're against. It comes down to feel. At midscreen, you usually have two main oki of choice:
Safejump J.s/j.H - This is the most common one people do. The timing for it is pretty easy once you get the hang of it: after a Bandit Revolver, take a half step forward (watch Sol's walk animation) and then jump forward and do a j.S or j.H, making sure you hold downback/1 during it. If they DP you'll land in time to block, and then you can punish it. If they don't, then they block the j.S (or they get hit by it if they don't guard high) and you're free to pressure/confirm off it. Off the top of my head, Chipp and Sin are the two with really slow wake up timings. I usually take a full step before jumping against them, but the half-step setup has worked for me against most of the cast, that I've fought at least.
Gunflame - This isn't as rewarding as the above, but it's the safest. After landing a BR simply do a Gunflame. It'll hit late enough that it becomes very plus, and if they think about reversaling it, you're at a far enough distance that they'll simply get hit by the flames. Counterhit gunflame leads into sweet stuff, so make sure they regret it when it connects.
Once they respect the j.S, you get a little more wiggle room. Off BR knockdown you're usually at a safe distance to try and empty jump -> 2K as an empty jump low mixup. I believe some characters with larger throw distance may be able to throw you for trying this, but if they've come to respect the j.S they usually won't try anyway, unless they are really looking for this kind of set up.
The brother of the empty jump low is the jump delay airdash. Before you land, airdash forward. At that point, people expect some sort of low since you haven't done a normal. Airdashing in with j.S j.H into 2K 2D is a good way to catch them.
If they absolutely refuse to press buttons, you can try Wild Throw stuff. I like to do jump in with j.P and then WT when I land. The j.P has little enough hitstun that you can land it, but you still have to delay it a little bit. Be aware that the opponent can throw you out of it, but the idea is that they are too afraid to try it because the j.S safejump would've beat it anyway. Also, if they FD on wakeup a lot, you can usually just run in and WT after a j.S.
In the corner, you get to do really dirty stuff with YRC. After a BR knockdown usually resulting from a dustloop, you can hit them OTG with a 2K and immediately cancel it into Gunflame YRC. Usually people mashing to tech will end up air teching the 2K hit. With Gunflame YRC you get an amusing situation.
If the opponent techs it - you can react to it because of the slow down and can airthrow them immediately. If you did it low enough to the ground, you can actually link a 5K and go right into a dustloop -> the same situation.
If the opponent does not tech - Then they have to block the gunflame really late, netting you large frame advantage. You can then try a jump in / air dash / empty jump low mixup here. The bonus in this situation is that the gunflame will get blocked when you land, so you aren't at risk of being thrown. Therefore you can get better stuff off 2K (in this case, you do 2K 6P 5H -> Dustloop) without risk of getting wakeup grabbed.
For now, I say learn the j.S safejump and just stick with that. Once you've got it down and are comfortable with it, you can try the other stuff. Considering netplay, people are probably gonna be wakeup DP happy anyway, so it'll really ruin their day.
I think you're jumping to some pretty baseless assumptions about the developers' intentions here. There was always huge buffer windows for jump cancels, the slower dashes (and less dramatic jump arcs) are a design decision to accommodate the aspect ratio shift, and the hitstop increase is as much about visuals as anything.
I haven't exactly seen "a lot of" Guilty Gear players complaining about mash to tech. I see this from older BB players, but these are the same people who have been content to play a game with less value placed on oki and historically large amounts of watching combos drag on. GG's about keeping active even when on the receiving end, and the teching system speaks to that particular adrenaline experience.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Huh? Oki is huge in BB and a bit more complex
Thomasorus
Member
Thanks finally someone noticing this. You forgot instant throws with no break with almost all non meter combos from past games removed... But the RC combos are more violent than in past games. Arc logic.
Story mode in this game is sooooooo good. I want entire visual novels in that style.
I also like how they completely got rid of the gameplay for story mode. Story mode battles were never compelling in their other games anyway. Hell P4AU has the option to just let the CPU fight them, which is pretty silly when you think about it.
I also like how they completely got rid of the gameplay for story mode. Story mode battles were never compelling in their other games anyway. Hell P4AU has the option to just let the CPU fight them, which is pretty silly when you think about it.
Are you sure about this? I thought P4AU only had the option to let the CPU fight in your stead in Golden Arena Mode, but not the story mode.
Curry-Hakase
Member
I don't see how mashing to tech provides a deeper experience than holding to tech. Some GG OGs I've talked to agree that holding to tech would actually be better in Xrd to avoid accidental YRCs upon teching.
Also oki is really important in BB especially with the various ways to ground tech in that game.
I've only seen him in B tier.
LOL @ Blazblue placing "less value on oki".
Yeah, put in hold to tech and the input buffer please. Some combos which would normally be pretty simple are really rough online.
Also is there anyone that knows how to air brake with Chipp's j.2K reliably using FD? I tried a whole bunch of stuff in training mode and couldn't get it. I either got a YRC, a whiffed j.K, or a whiffed j.2K.
It's a thing, and the funniest part (to me) is the CPU can even lose.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
How are you getting a yrc? You should only be pressing two buttons total
commanderpepper
Member
I didn't know reversals were strict in this game. That would explain why I can never get out dp Slash with Axl. I'm gonna go into training mode to get better at them.
Curry-Hakase
Member
This game has so much hit stop I don't feel the input buffer is necessary for combos sometimes.
Xrd has the same hitstop per attack level as the old GGs. Maybe they raised everyone's attacks a level? lol
I've always teched by pianoing P, K and S in the older GGs. I still do it too, i've just learned to be a bit more precise with it now. It was only really a week 1 problem for me but I know a lot of people have decided to piano two buttons instead of three now.
Xrd has the same hitstop per attack level as the old GGs. Maybe they raised everyone's attacks a level? lol
I've always teched by pianoing P, K and S in the older GGs. I still do it too, i've just learned to be a bit more precise with it now. It was only really a week 1 problem for me but I know a lot of people have decided to piano two buttons instead of three now.
Karsticles
Member
Did anyone end up doing a gameshare for this on the PS3 version? I have to accept that I just won't be able to get a PS4 stick for a long time, but maybe I could pay into a gameshare for the PS3 version so I don't have to fully double dip.
Ha, well great. It'll certainly be interesting to see what path the story structure of the next ASW fighter takes.
I heard you should mash tech with FD to avoid air-unblockable resets. But yeah hold to tech please. Mashing to tech makes you more active while being comboed in the same way that mashing to get more damage during supers makes you more active while doing supers. It's meaningless activity that doesn't really add anything at all.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Why does Ino have so many options? God, my brain is melting trying to remember all my setups lol. Some of her links are super annoying too. Haven't had this much fun with a character since Magneto ^_^
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
I can get to about trial 30 with characters then I am done, lol. Might be a little better with stick but I never had great execution and I don't practice at all really to get that much better D:. Still haven't unlocked Sin either whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";144033355]Why does Ino have so many options? God, my brain is melting trying to remember all my setups lol. Some of her links are super annoying too. Haven't had this much fun with a character since Magneto ^_^[/QUOTE]
This is actually who i have gotten the farthest with. Up to 33 in her trials and my thumb is just screaming. Such and interesting character.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";144033355]Why does Ino have so many options? God, my brain is melting trying to remember all my setups lol. Some of her links are super annoying too. Haven't had this much fun with a character since Magneto ^_^[/QUOTE]
This is actually who i have gotten the farthest with. Up to 33 in her trials and my thumb is just screaming. Such and interesting character.
From Daisuke Ishiwatari himself:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...eveals-thinking-behind-xrds-design-decisions/
Accessibility being a big part of reintroducing the series isn't something I made up, I just assumed those changes are part of it.
With some more labbing, I think Elphelt's the strongest of the console characters.
She can actually be pretty dumb
The things you listed like huge buffer window for jump cancels, long hit stop, these were all part of previous Guilty Gear games.
This game actually feels too close to old Guilty Gear. It's just the speed is slightly slower.
It's mostly a slightly slower #Reload with time slow down.
She can actually be pretty dumb
The things you listed like huge buffer window for jump cancels, long hit stop, these were all part of previous Guilty Gear games.
This game actually feels too close to old Guilty Gear. It's just the speed is slightly slower.
It's mostly a slightly slower #Reload with time slow down.
To me, Arc came up with several streamlining decisions in the BB games, then moreso in P4A, and I assumed those would all get worked back into new GG but it seems they wanted to make GG feel familiar to old players, even moreso than vanilla SF4 did for SF2. No advanced input, hold to tech, move startups are often identical, etc.
However, they also had these streamlined accessibility ideas that were not as directly lifted from their other games but more an extension and easing of what they'd already established in GG, which introduced the dramatic hitstops and stop buffer.
That's not the right attitude.
Complain on internet forums until this is adjusted to your comfort levels.
Assuming it's the same as in AC, which I haven't seen anything that says otherwise, you just hold j.1K and quickly start holding another button for FD, like j.1K+S. You have to time it fast, but it's not too difficult. You're pushing too many buttons if you get a YRC. Test it by trying to brake a running jump towards the training dummy, you'll know when it works.
Ogawa tweeted that she's tops and that she might be the best character in the game.
But yeah, I've always felt like the execution parameters in this series have been hella overstated - just like every game nowadays, it seems. If you can't do what you want, when you want, without putting in some sort of practice, scrubby whining comes in from every direction.
Curry-Hakase
Member
Yep, it should be in the options IIRC to upload your save to a server.
Ogawa agrees with you but is only putting her in A+ for now until she develops more.
https://twitter.com/ogawaeddie
i'm plaing the wrong character...
Hm... I always felt she was great compared to the other new characters, but it's surprising to see him put her that high. I considered her really strong lately, but I dunno about best character in the game, that might be too much lol
A+ tier, I definitely agree with on Ogawa.
I thought she was decent way back because of her problems with defense, but I've gotten used to which normals to use.
She has a lot of potential though, so I'm glad other people are thinking the same.
Is it two separate inputs, or do I press S while holding j.1K? Is it like a plink where I hit K first followed extremely closely by S?
Sorry, it feels like it's a lot trickier than what I was led to believe lol.
On another note, I can get jump install combo about 1/8 tries.
Finally starting to get some May combos down. Basic stuff, like airdash j.S j.H s.P 2D > Applause, but it's a start, and it netted me a few wins on Ranked last night. I have problems landing the j.S occasionally, as the timing is pretty strict (has to be input during the air dash late enough so that it connects, but early enough so that j.H comes out).
Now I'm stuck on Overhead Kiss > dash in > s.K cl.S (Jump Cancel) > j.S j.H > Ensenga. I keep getting 6K by mistake, since the dash has to be very short (only about 2 steps), and then the window for landing the j.S is tiny. May's lack of range and speed on her normals is my weakness, especially since it's so easy to push people out of range if you're not on top of your links. Don't even know where to begin on RC combos or comboing into super.
Compare this to Faust, who gets simple chain combos into Pogo > Going My Way from 3/4 of a screen away. Might have to switch to him, he's ridiculous.
Now I'm stuck on Overhead Kiss > dash in > s.K cl.S (Jump Cancel) > j.S j.H > Ensenga. I keep getting 6K by mistake, since the dash has to be very short (only about 2 steps), and then the window for landing the j.S is tiny. May's lack of range and speed on her normals is my weakness, especially since it's so easy to push people out of range if you're not on top of your links. Don't even know where to begin on RC combos or comboing into super.
Compare this to Faust, who gets simple chain combos into Pogo > Going My Way from 3/4 of a screen away. Might have to switch to him, he's ridiculous.
DiscoShark
Banned
I disagree with this point of view and I think you're misrepresenting the other side's argument. The question isn't whether or not there should be things in the game requiring practice, it's whether or not the things the game asks of you to practice in order to competently play it are necessary and improve the overall experience. If, at a high level, people are able to consistently get out reversals when the situation calls for it then why is it necessary to gate off that aspect of the game to the mid or low level players? Does knowing the specific 2 frame reversal window make you "better" than the person you're facing? Do we want the fighting games we play to emphasize things like arbitrarily gating off simple parts of the experience (Reversals or FRCs in the older games) or do we want them to emphasize the actual act of playing and reacting to another human opponent?
justjustin
Member
Nice, and yeah my Neo-Geo stick works the same way, just had to reconfigure the buttons... except I'm not gonna use it because I forgot how loud the thing is-- clicky stick and clacky buttons.
Anyway, it's been a long time since I played any fighting game so I'm getting reacquainted with super-precise timing. I'm doing some challenge mode with Slayer and it took me a half hour to do a jump-cancelling air combo with him. I think the combo guide is a little misleading, as the jump cancel should be executed a millisecond before the next attack, not immediately after the first attack.
So it's attack--> jump cancel+next attack.
Not attack+jump cancel--> next attack. If you know what I mean.
I'm guessing there's going to be a lot of stuff like that, but it's fun figuring it out.
Two frames window is fine and easy to get down without much effort, the problem is going online where different delay values require different timing.
I guess for wakeup reversals, I wouldn't care too much if the window was greater than it is now. Wakeup DP is such a scary and usually bad option in GG anyways. I'm not a fan of large reversal windows otherwise since I dislike when it simplifies a frame trap situation into a yes or no thing. The game continues to block for you on solid blockstrings already, and I don't really enjoy games where the choice of blockstrings become a hard read on whether to go for the frame trap or bait the DP.