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[Karsticles]

Zato is hard to start but easy once you know what you are doing

You call everything easy.

Zato's only weird learning how to deal with neutral and some situational stuff.

Luckily once he reaches setplay, the button presses involved are no different than learning a combo since it's mostly the same thing.

The neutral is what is killing me. I feel helpless. Everything I do gets AAed, and I feel like I can't approach without Eddie backing me up.

yup, couldnt take the negative edging. Being able to do an Eddie combo even once was extremely difficult for me

Now I'm playing Ram though, so its not like its gotten much easier :/

Ram seems easy, not sure what you mean. What difficult execution does she have?

What does dead angle mean?

 

[Onemic]

Ram seems easy, not sure what you mean. What difficult execution does she have?

What does dead angle mean?

Neutral is pretty difficult and combos are hard as well. You gotta microdash everything with her. Also IA 6H/6S is a pain in the ass, especially when not off a jump cancellable normal

 

[Rhapsody]

You call everything easy.


The neutral is what is killing me. I feel helpless. Everything I do gets AAed, and I feel like I can't approach without Eddie backing me up.


Ram seems easy, not sure what you mean. What difficult execution does she have?

What does dead angle mean?

Neutral's a little weird to explain. If you want, you can add me and I'll try to do whatever I can on that connection.
If you're up for playing anytime soon.

Edit: Dead Angle Attacks are Alpha Counters.

 

[Valkerionseven]

Waiting for the LE to be delivered like:

Seems like people are getting their copies already. Glad to know they are in the wild (storage rooms) placing my order

 

[Essay]

Have you played Ram by any chance? Any pointers to give on how to play her neutral?

I've been trying to sub Ram and find her neutral and overall game-flow feels pretty appealing so far. I'm a verrry big fan of her 4P (neutral P, with 4 held so it's mashable/confirmable), 2K (also fast, leads into her pressure/basic mixup), and j.P, but I don't typically go ham with them from round-start. What I'm usually doing is spacing things out with her f.S early on for one reason and one reason alone: it gives good meter gain on hit/block, while her P's and K's don't.

In neutral, I've had success deploying my H sword and not my S sword to force the opponent to move while holding on to her good f.S. Assuming it's a matchup where Ram can avoid blocking and out-maneuver the opponent, I might then start deploying both once I've built up some meter. Once I'm alternating between both sword calls, have the opponent moving and have some meter to spare, I start fishing more for j.PxN > 8D combos, and RC if I need to to ensure knockdown.

Otherwise, if they give me no room to summon, I just bite the bullet and try to weasel in pressure opportunities with those aforementioned normals, and do what I can to sneak meter off of sword normals to cash it in later.

 

[Onemic]

Matches with Rookiejet have been the best ive had today

I've been trying to sub Ram and find her neutral and overall game-flow feels pretty appealing so far. I'm a verrry big fan of her 4P (neutral P, with 4 held so it's mashable/confirmable), 2K (also fast, leads into her pressure/basic mixup), and j.P, but I don't typically go ham with them from round-start. What I'm usually doing is spacing things out with her f.S early on for one reason and one reason alone: it gives good meter gain on hit/block, while her P's and K's don't.

In neutral, I've had success deploying my H sword and not my S sword to force the opponent to move while holding on to her good f.S. Assuming it's a matchup where Ram can avoid blocking and out-maneuver the opponent, I might then start deploying both once I've built up some meter. Once I'm alternating between both sword calls, have the opponent moving and have some meter to spare, I start fishing more for j.PxN > 8D combos, and RC if I need to to ensure knockdown.

Otherwise, if they give me no room to summon, I just bite the bullet and try to weasel in pressure opportunities with those aforementioned normals, and do what I can to sneak meter off of sword normals to cash it in later.

I've often been in spots where its not a good decision to deploy a sword due to the proximity of the opponent, but at the same time I'm too far away to connect with any K or P normals. What do you do in those situations? take the risk and dash in? Wait and block?

 

[Onemic]

double post

 

[Jazz-ism]

am I reading...ram and zato players....complaining?

 

[TomcatTheLion]

Jump cancelling is playing with my emotions.

I figure I'll be "ready" to go online by tomorrow or so. Still in challenge mode trying to put together some bnbs and starters with I-No and Millia.

How is the online so far by the way?

 

[rookiejet]

I have a lobby in New England 1A (named rookiejet1) with Onemic right now, if anybody wants to join.

 

[Seyavesh]

elphelts normals are so fast and far reaching wth

 

[SixMachine]

elphelts normals are so fast and far reaching wth

Bouquets are quite deadly around these parts.

 

[Riou]

I have a lobby in New England 1A (named rookiejet1) with Onemic right now, if anybody wants to join.

Hey, I would love to join you guys. I'm also on the east coast so hopefully the lag won't be too bad. My PSN is CB_Riou

 

[Onemic]

ggs Rookiejet. How are you so good at throwing lol. I swear you never missed a single one. Every time I go for a throw I get a normal or Ram calls her sword back

 

[SixMachine]

ggs Rookiejet. How are you so good at throwing lol. I swear you never missed a single one. Every time I go for a throw I get a normal or Ram calls her sword back

Do you option select your throws? If you do f + P + HS, you will get her f+P on whiff, instead of calling her sword to them which would be pretty bad up close.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Leo sucks

 

[vocab]

Elphelt is dumb.

 

[Laconic]

I just got a copy in the mail, today.

I really do not like what they've done with the way Millia plays, top tier or not.

The voices are horrible, too.

Millia sounds like a dude, and Sol sounds just plain wrong.

But yeah, not feeling the system changes.

And feeling the character specific changes even less.

I can see why it died so fast in Japan, now.

I wonder what the trade-in value is at...

 

[Zomba13]

I'm reeeeally enjoying the story mode a lot more than I thought I would. When I ehard there was no gameplay I just assumed it was basically a book, just all reading but (so far at least) it's fully voiced, decently acted (english VA, I have no problems with any so far) and does a good job getting me to actually care about the story and world beyond thinking "It's alternate future with magic and crazy shit".

 

[Karsticles]

am I reading...ram and zato players....complaining?

Is that Jazz-ism making a driveby post completely void of content but chock full of assholery? Oh, nothing new there.

Neutral's a little weird to explain. If you want, you can add me and I'll try to do whatever I can on that connection.
If you're up for playing anytime soon.

Edit: Dead Angle Attacks are Alpha Counters.

I would love that. Are we PSN friends already? Add Karsticles if we aren't already. I won't be available tonight, but tomorrow is good.

 

[fader]

Is that Jazz-ism making a driveby post completely void of content but chock full of assholery? Oh, nothing new there.

ouch... venomous....

Spoiler

well it is true though...

btw, mind if I add you on psn?

 

[rookiejet]

ggs Rookiejet. How are you so good at throwing lol. I swear you never missed a single one. Every time I go for a throw I get a normal or Ram calls her sword back

"When in doubt, throw" has been my game so far, lol. Your pressure game with Ram is already scary

I need to learn to apply pressure with Sin rather than just fish for stuff

thx for the games

 

[Karsticles]

ouch... venomous....

Spoiler

well it is true though...

btw, mind if I add you on psn?

It would be one thing if I were actually complaining about Zato, but I'm just here discussing what I suck at and trying to learn how to get better. He can't even be bothered to figure that out.

Please, add me on PSN. I welcome anyone to. My PSN is Karsticles. I prefer to play with GAF whenever possible so I can have people to discuss my learning with. I lost against someone 10 matches in a row today, so no worries about having to hold back for fear of making me give up.

 

[Essay]

I've often been in spots where its not a good decision to deploy a sword due to the proximity of the opponent, but at the same time I'm too far away to connect with any K or P normals. What do you do in those situations? take the risk and dash in? Wait and block?

My preference is for trying to at least stick my sword normals out so that they get blocked and I keep pace in meter gain. It's a safer way to build meter against most characters, versus fishing for sword-set attacks. Dead-angles, Expode, the spinning sword super, YRC sets, RC'ing odd hits to convert into knockdown... they are all worth the meter, but you have to build it in the first place, so try not to get caught with your swords both set early on because once the opponent gets past them, you're at risk of getting way behind in meter.

Otherwise, yeah, sometimes you just take the risk and dash in like your 4-frame punch is Sol's 3-frame K. A single 2K interrupts decently if they're out of 4P range too and lets you collect yourself. Don't forget you can airdash after super jump-2S/H-settíng over things too, or just come down with a j.K.

Otherwise, wait it out and block if you screwed up, but do everything in your power to keep out of that situation.

 

[SixMachine]

It would be one thing if I were actually complaining about Zato, but I'm just here discussing what I suck at and trying to learn how to get better. He can't even be bothered to figure that out.

Please, add me on PSN. I welcome anyone to. My PSN is Karsticles. I prefer to play with GAF whenever possible so I can have people to discuss my learning with. I lost against someone 10 matches in a row today, so no worries about having to hold back for fear of making me give up.

Where are you located? I have a hard time getting some decent matches in, but if you are near Texas, you can throw me a friend request. PSN id is GiygasXLR.

 

[Karsticles]

I am trying to watch some Ogawa to understand my character better, and I wonder something:
If you use qcb.HS to bring Eddie out from a puddle, does Eddie have no recovery from that at all? I am watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYkPEJ95uKM

Ogawa cancels S into dd.HS, and then does qcb.HS into , but the qcb.HS into comes out all as one motion. Do I understand what happened properly? This game is so fast that I have to pause every second to follow the match.

Where are you located? I have a hard time getting some decent matches in, but if you are near Texas, you can throw me a friend request. PSN id is GiygasXLR.

I am in Colorado, and I've been getting great connections all over the country. New York's highest delay with me was 5 frames. 2 or 3 was typical.

 

[Bebpo]

Starting to get the hang of Ram online. My weakest problem is I have tons of trouble playing against characters who rush me down. When people are in Ram's face constantly, what's the best move to get them away? I'm finding HS vertical sword works ok and counterhit stuns a lot, but it's also slow and can't beat most pokes.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Since I can't get air brake down properly with Chipp I decided to switch to Elphelt.

This character is fucking hilarious lol.

 

[Rhapsody]

I am trying to watch some Ogawa to understand my character better, and I wonder something:
If you use qcb.HS to bring Eddie out from a puddle, does Eddie have no recovery from that at all? I am watching this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYkPEJ95uKM

Ogawa cancels S into dd.HS, and then does qcb.HS into , but the qcb.HS into comes out all as one motion. Do I understand what happened properly? This game is so fast that I have to pause every second to follow the match.


I am in Colorado, and I've been getting great connections all over the country. New York's highest delay with me was 5 frames. 2 or 3 was typical.

There's a very slight delay after 214HS, but it's miniscule. You can do the follow up fast. Regardless of 236HS or 214HS, you can do inputs for Eddie before even Zato recovers.

 

[SolarKnight]

So is Japanese DLC compatible with HK versions of the game? A friend claims that that's what he did for Leo and the colors.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I really like this game

 

[zlatko]

I really like this game

Ditto. Surprised me. I wasn't a big fan of Blazblue by any means. I like Hazama there, but I was ass with him, and I got bopped nonstop in that game. I semi hold my own on pad, but can't wait for my birthday in February to get a fight stick somehow to up it.

Definitely going to play this until SF5 it seems.

 

[Karsticles]

Since I can't get air brake down properly with Chipp I decided to switch to Elphelt.

This character is fucking hilarious lol.

Elphelt makes me smile a lot. I really love her as a character. I want to play her for a while just to hear all of her victory quotes. I'll have to play through her Arcade Mode to understand what the big deal with marriage is for her.

There's a very slight delay after 214HS, but it's miniscule. You can do the follow up fast. Regardless of 236HS or 214HS, you can do inputs for Eddie before even Zato recovers.

Ah. I think I've just been going about Zato entirely wrong. I've been taking to the air and trying to space out aerials to get in on people, but Ogawa mostly stays grounded until Eddie is out, and he focuses on drills and spacing. I was trying to play him like Painwheel with a pet, basically, and it wasn't working. This actually makes me feel a little better, because it means that I can fix the approach and do better.

Edit: How do qcf.S, qcf.HS, and qcb.HS, , differ in activation time? About the same, or is one the best option?

 

[Astarte]

Elphelt makes me smile a lot. I really love her as a character. I want to play her for a while just to hear all of her victory quotes. I'll have to play through her Arcade Mode to understand what the big deal with marriage is for her.

Elphelt, Sin, and Ramlethal don't have arcade stories. You just play through 8 stages and...that's it. They're pretty much pushing story mode onto you :V

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Elphelt, Sin, and Ramlethal don't have arcade stories. You just play through 8 stages and...that's it. They're pretty much pushing story mode onto you :V

I think it would have been good if they showed the montage scene at the end of each of their arcade modes.

 

[Rhapsody]

Ah. I think I've just been going about Zato entirely wrong. I've been taking to the air and trying to space out aerials to get in on people, but Ogawa mostly stays grounded until Eddie is out, and he focuses on drills and spacing. I was trying to play him like Painwheel with a pet, basically, and it wasn't working. This actually makes me feel a little better, because it means that I can fix the approach and do better.

Yeah. It's why I suggest practicing between S shadow and Drill. S Shadow is basically your best friend in neutral or after a puddle.
After meaty drill, it gives him time to do summon into S shadow, into 2S, into H Drill as a blockstring to get in.

There are times when he does approach in the air though. I've seen him approach in the air with an air dash high up (so Eddie is still following behind). Then he does Shadow Gallery to force them into blockstun. During the recovery, he does K shadow so he can make himself safe and start pressure.

and qcb.HS, , differ in activation time? About the same, or is one the best option?

Generally you don't want to do qcf.S point blank on a grounded opponent. It's hard to start pressure in most cases this way. qcf/qcb.HS is preferred since you can delay Eddie's attack a tiny bit so Zato can recover in time and pressure off of that shadow. qcf.HS and qcb.HS will have the same activation time as far as I can tell, so it's a matter of where you need Eddie to be summoned.

 

[Azure J]

Elphelt, Sin, and Ramlethal don't have arcade stories. You just play through 8 stages and...that's it. They're pretty much pushing story mode onto you :V

Aw man. Was hoping for more burger time level of shenanigans from the Valentine sisters.

 

[Jazz-ism]

ill fall back because after re reading, its obvious karst you are very beginner (you didnt know what dead angle meant) and just ignorant (i mean this not with venom but in the purest definition of the word). i see in your most recent post that you actually started watching film and taking notes like a real fighting game player so good job.

i think faust Ram and zato are the top 3 in this game followed closely by the next cut of millia ino and chipp/elph. if you are new to the game, please utilize youtube, especially goldenrody and jourdal 2012 to watch match footage from top players. see how the dons of your character play the matches, watch for position what they use and what positions they tkae the most heat in, also how to get out of those situations.

its been linked before but here is a valuable resource

also the dustloop wiki is being updated with the translated JP wiki stuff pretty quickly so that is also a valuable resource for new players

 

[Karsticles]

Elphelt, Sin, and Ramlethal don't have arcade stories. You just play through 8 stages and...that's it. They're pretty much pushing story mode onto you :V

Presumably, neither does Leo, yes?

I'm okay with them not having arcade stories. Does Story Mode explain why Elphelt is obsessed with marriage? Should I play all of the Arcade Modes before Story Mode, or is once good enough?

Yeah. It's why I suggest practicing between S shadow and Drill. S Shadow is basically your best friend in neutral or after a puddle.
After meaty drill, it gives him time to do summon into S shadow, into 2S, into H Drill as a blockstring to get in.

There are times when he does approach in the air though. I've seen him approach in the air with an air dash high up (so Eddie is still following behind). Then he does Shadow Gallery to force them into blockstun. During the recovery, he does K shadow so he can make himself safe and start pressure.


Generally you don't want to do qcf.S point blank on a grounded opponent. It's hard to start pressure in most cases this way. qcf/qcb.HS is preferred since you can delay Eddie's attack a tiny bit so Zato can recover in time and pressure off of that shadow. qcf.HS and qcb.HS will have the same activation time as far as I can tell, so it's a matter of where you need Eddie to be summoned.

That aerial approach sounds really nice and safe. What I meant for myself is that I'm just going up in the air alone.

Let me rephrase my question re: inputs.

Say an opponent is jumping toward you. You have a puddle right where Eddie would normally come out anyway. What is preferable for an AA: qcf.S; qcb.HS, , or qcf.HS, ? Will one have shorter startup/longer recovery than the others? It helps me to sort these things on numbers. Otherwise I trip myself up in the heat of the moment.

ill fall back because after re reading, its obvious karst you are very beginner (you didnt know what dead angle meant) and just ignorant (i mean this not with venom but in the purest definition of the word). i see in your most recent post that you actually started watching film and taking notes like a real fighting game player so good job.

i think faust Ram and zato are the top 3 in this game followed closely by the next cut of millia ino and chipp/elph. if you are new to the game, please utilize youtube, especially goldenrody and jourdal 2012 to watch match footage from top players. see how the dons of your character play the matches, watch for position what they use and what positions they tkae the most heat in, also how to get out of those situations.

its been linked before but here is a valuable resource

also the dustloop wiki is being updated with the translated JP wiki stuff pretty quickly so that is also a valuable resource for new players

Indeed. I am going to do my best to master the character, and will use all of the available resources. I plan to watch an Ogawa video daily and try to pick something up from it.

 

[Astarte]

I think it would have been good if they showed the montage scene at the end of each of their arcade modes.

Aw man. Was hoping for more burger time level of shenanigans from the Valentine sisters.

More burger shenanigans would do a soul good, but that's too good for this plane of existence.

Presumably, neither does Leo, yes?

I'm okay with them not having arcade stories. Does Story Mode explain why Elphelt is obsessed with marriage? Should I play all of the Arcade Modes before Story Mode, or is once good enough?

Yeah, Leo doesn't have an arcade story either. The story mode explains why Elphelt has a wedding theme, sorta.
Arcade stories are recommended, like why the hell a character ended up where they were or why they knew about the circumstances surrounding them, but not necessary.

 

[fader]

fuck zato, i'm sticking with i-no. this relationship just is not going to work.

 

[SolarKnight]

Yeah, the console characters get decent screentime in story mode. They're not treated like, say, Potemkin who literally only shows up for like 3 lines in one scene.

 

[Karsticles]

fuck zato, i'm sticking with i-no. this relationship just is not going to work.

It's tempting to main I-No just to spam those screen-filling forks. That was like...my entire gameplan back in the day. Plus projectile spam with Dizzy.

 

[Rhapsody]

That aerial approach sounds really nice and safe. What I meant for myself is that I'm just going up in the air alone.

Let me rephrase my question re: inputs.

Say an opponent is jumping toward you. You have a puddle right where Eddie would normally come out anyway. What is preferable for an AA: qcf.S; qcb.HS, , or qcf.HS, ? Will one have shorter startup/longer recovery than the others? It helps me to sort these things on numbers. Otherwise I trip myself up in the heat of the moment.


Indeed. I am going to do my best to master the character, and will use all of the available resources. I plan to watch an Ogawa video daily and try to pick something up from it.

Ah, I guess it depends then. Personally, I usually don't do qcf.S as a reactionary anti air unless they at double jump height. Other than that, I'll maybe use it when we're both grounded, 2/3s screen away from each other. It's almost like a preemptive "I dare you to jump in on me".

I wouldn't even use qcf.HS if they're within perfect air dash distance either unless you got a good read. It's risky, but the reward is great. Stick with 6P against air dash heavy players. Do S shadow on people trying to double/super jump their way in.

And unfortunately I couldn't tell you the numbers on recovery/startup.
I'm almost positive that doing qcf.S or qcf.HS into S shadow asap have the same frame data.

Edit: This goes for qcb.HS as well

 

[Jazz-ism]

fuck zato, i'm sticking with i-no. this relationship just is not going to work.

i-no is a fine choice to start out with...what made you change in the first place? im assuming you are a beginner? in xrd, i-no is one of the more improved characters, and there are a lot of players/resources that you can learn from

 

[Karsticles]

Ah, I guess it depends then. Personally, I usually don't do qcf.S as a reactionary anti air unless they at double jump height. Other than that, I'll maybe use it when we're both grounded, 2/3s screen away from each other. It's almost like a preemptive "I dare you to jump in on me".

I wouldn't even use qcf.HS if they're within perfect air dash distance either unless you got a good read. It's risky, but the reward is great. Stick with 6P against air dash heavy players. Do S shadow on people trying to double/super jump their way in.

And unfortunately I couldn't tell you the numbers on recovery/startup.
I'm almost positive that doing qcf.S or qcf.HS into S shadow asap have the same frame data.

Edit: This goes for qcb.HS as well

When you use , does Eddie's attack have a hurtbox?

 

[fader]

i-no is a fine choice to start out with...what made you change in the first place? im assuming you are a beginner? in xrd, i-no is one of the more improved characters, and there are a lot of players/resources that you can learn from

It's tempting to main I-No just to spam those screen-filling forks. That was like...my entire gameplan back in the day. Plus projectile spam with Dizzy.

I use to play Johnny in XX but... you know... And Sin doesn't fill that void and I always wanted to play I-no but never got use to her forward run back then. So I decided "I should try her now". But Zato's neutral game looks so much fun and I have a fetish for characters with good neutral game. But w/e, I'm fine with I-no (expect for having trouble with SJIAD).

 

[Jazz-ism]

I use to play Johnny in XX but... you know... And Sin doesn't fill that void and I always wanted to play I-no but never got use to her forward run back then. So I decided "I should try her now". But Zato's neutral game looks so much fun and I have a fetish for characters with good neutral game. But w/e, I'm fine with I-no (expect for having trouble with SJIAD).

her movement is a bit more unique so that adds to her curve a bit, but with a good bit of effort it is easy to overcome and reap power from. she is a fantastic character with a barrier for sure but it isnt a steep one. stick with her, hold your L's and improve. she is straight up a top char in this version of the game, and unless major overhauls to YRC happen in the next version (which is entirely possible mind you) she will stay that way

 

[Rhapsody]

When you use , does Eddie's attack have a hurtbox?

Yes, and Eddie will die to both regular hits and projectiles. You won't have to worry about Eddie getting hit when you're anti airing though. Its hitbox is really good that it's extremely difficult to even make it end in a trade, it'll usually straight up win.

On the ground, characters have good enough to pokes to just kill it if you aren't being careful.
But you're Zato, you'll have S and HS Drill to help cover S Shadow.

Edit: And don't forget that drill nullifies projectiles. Extremely important to cover Eddie.

 

[Karsticles]

Yes, and Eddie will die to both regular hits and projectiles. You won't have to worry about Eddie getting hit when you're anti airing though. Its hitbox is really good that it's extremely difficult to even make it end in a trade, it'll usually straight up win.

On the ground, characters have good enough to pokes to just kill it if you aren't being careful.
But you're Zato, you'll have S and HS Drill to help cover S Shadow.

Thanks for helping me process that.

If Eddie gets hurt, how does that affect his meter? I haven't really paid attention thus far.