This is very true. After Destiny, I have no interest in buying any more shooters that don't offer a rich co-op PVE experience. 343i appears to have no interest in that, having now removed Firefight and Spartan Ops completely.
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Halo 5: Guardians |OT2| All Hail The Conquering Hero
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This is very true. After Destiny, I have no interest in buying any more shooters that don't offer a rich co-op PVE experience. 343i appears to have no interest in that, having now removed Firefight and Spartan Ops completely.
I beg to differ, people want variety so the game doesn't get stale. I think they are right to focus on existing Halo fans. But they also need to make new fans and throw a bone to those who are on the fence after H4 and MCC.
RedSparrows
Member
Yes, I want more stuff too. I just don't think most casuals care about this. They want Forge? I doubt it.
I play Halo 5 more than any other bone game atm because it plays better than anything else I have. I would love there to be more game modes et al, and I get why some people are pissed. But I also don't think the addition of a few more objective modes will draw in players who aren't that fussed about Halo in the first place. Objective games never do, although I love them.
I'll add:
Zero PVE co-op gameplay other than replaying the incredibly lackluster story mode.
Not launching with Oddball isn't the problem. But if you turned on Halo 5 at launch, you would see no Firefight type mode, no BTB, no Forge, no fileshare, no campaign matchmaking, and several modes lacking in maps. Like, if you played any of the 360 Halos and then picked up this game, you'd be wondering where a lot of that stuff is. And then if you tried the new modes and started to realize how few maps they had, or played the old modes and realized that two of the maps are based off one another, or looked through the maps and realized how many of them are Forge, you'd really just feel like this game was lacking in content.
I understand that there a promises of more content on the way, including Forge and more maps, and that they've already given us BTB, but if you didn't really follow this game, you wouldn't have known that stuff.
It's also worth noting the lack of splitscreen seems like a bit of a mistake, considering of this season's biggest online multiplayer shooters (BLOPS3, Battlefront, and Halo 5), the one that supported it the most is the only one that didn't arguably underperform.
Casuals don't want Forge, but they do want community Forge maps to fuck around in, and a way to easily browse fun ones or share fun ones they find with friends. Half of the fun of Halo 3 was the weird shit people would come up with, like racing around a track while being sniped at, mazes with zombies in it, etc. But you can't currently do that in Halo 5. I know these maps take time, but there'd be a lot of cool ones by now if Forge was there at launch.
Leyasu
Banned
With all that great stuff that is available from reqs, it is criminal that there are no raids/strikes/firefight modes to use that it in.
If I was Microsoft, I would let 343 continue with there sustain model. Then I would forget another release this gen. This gen is fucked for them no matter what they do.
I would also be building a second team within 343 that would start immediate work on halo worlds, which would basically be destiny in the halo universe. But whose story intertwines with the mainline series. Your hub would be on New Reach, and you and your team would be tasked with destroying flood hives, brute worlds covenant splinters etc... Complete with everything else that.
If I was Microsoft, I would let 343 continue with there sustain model. Then I would forget another release this gen. This gen is fucked for them no matter what they do.
I would also be building a second team within 343 that would start immediate work on halo worlds, which would basically be destiny in the halo universe. But whose story intertwines with the mainline series. Your hub would be on New Reach, and you and your team would be tasked with destroying flood hives, brute worlds covenant splinters etc... Complete with everything else that.
RedSparrows
Member
I can see where you are coming from, and indeed agree with the basic position: don't get me wrong, I want more. More is good.
Where I differ, I think, is in my reading of what Halo 'needs'. People keep bemoaning the suspected 'low' population, using that chart on the previous page (and ignoring 81k BTB players from another source, fwiw), and saying things like 'Halo needs a PvE mode' etc.
I'd love a 'PvE' mode. More modes are good for me. Bring it (also fwiw, some might say they won't play another FPS without 'co-op pve'. I won't play another FPS that lacks any real focus on 'PvP' balance. Horses for courses). I just don't think apeing a small part of other success is going to magically make Halo top-dog again. 'Raids'? Really? Destiny is a game built around these systems. Tacking them onto Halo will only result in a pale imitation (with better mechanics, YES I SAID IT, fuck the Destiny 'gunplay' love
), and why play that when you can play Destiny?In terms of 'throwing players a bone' after Halo 4 and MCC, let's look at this. Halo 5 works better, technically and mechanically, than both these games. Halo 4 had more features, but it also missed the soul of Halo MP. MCC had all the features, given its hybrid nature, but was broken. Halo 5 recaptures the soul, in my opinion, and works pretty much as an online game should, barring the usual issues that crop up in most. It just lacks modes. Yes, it shouldn't, but as a problem, this is relatively minor and rectifiable compared to a total design philosophy and major systemic flaws.
For me, the difference for Halo now is timing. It's not 2007. Halo is no longer top-dog, both through mismanagement and through other trends. That does not mean Halo 5 is a bad game, far from it. The anal retentive obsession over things in this thread points out flaws and quirks that need tweaking (certain BTB spawns, for one!), and the lack of features is glaring compared to Halo 4 (but what happened to that population? Did the game modes save it?) but do you really think that these things matter, all that much, to the vast majority of 'casuals' who have arguably more demands on their time than they did when Halo 3 came out? They play Halo 5, they like its essence or they don't, they stay or they go play the next big shiney. On the weaker of the two main consoles.
Yes, it'd help to have more of everything, and we know more is coming (but how much more, we don't). But I don't think any of that is a silver bullet to help Halo be what some of you apparently want: top-dog. I'd love it if it was, because I think it's the best FPS around, and Halo 5 MP is sublime, in my opinion. But I can deal with it not being as long as it succeeds in its own terms: yes, those terms should have been met at launch, I completely agree. I don't know about dev times et al, but why not more game modes at launch, etc? But, assuming those things come, good: they are not the essence of the game, they add to and iterate on it. Is the game 'stale' for some? Probably. Will oddball rectify that? Not a chance, in any numbers worth considering, imo. The core of the game either grabs you or not, I think. Indeed, those terms might be reduced compared to past glories, but does that mean the game is a failure? I've not read anyone saying as much, but that's the fear I read between the lines.
Sorry, a ramble, but just some thoughts.
I think they had a really interesting universe, filled with conflict... Until the ending of Halo5. They kind of ignored ALL of the tension that had been building up, and created one bit baddie to rule them all...
I have no idea how they would approach such a thing now.
At this point you guys should stop getting disappointed by poor sales/chart numbers. Halo is maybe 20-30% of what it was popularity wise back from the Halo 3 era. It's depressing yeah, but there's nothing 343i or you can do about it at this time.
They'd have to go all out, make a perfect game with Halo 6 with all the modes, content etc and they probably still won't make it to Halo 3 levels. (Although it'll be more popular than Halo 5).
Even if they added in great maps with new game modes/custom games/everything else that was missing, I doubt the population would make it back to higher levels, if anything it'll probably just decline more slowly.
Edit: The universe still has its ups and downs, Halo 5 was disappointing though. The first main Halo game with a truly bad story, and this is coming from someone who did not like Reach or 3 in that regard.
They'd have to go all out, make a perfect game with Halo 6 with all the modes, content etc and they probably still won't make it to Halo 3 levels. (Although it'll be more popular than Halo 5).
Even if they added in great maps with new game modes/custom games/everything else that was missing, I doubt the population would make it back to higher levels, if anything it'll probably just decline more slowly.
Edit: The universe still has its ups and downs, Halo 5 was disappointing though. The first main Halo game with a truly bad story, and this is coming from someone who did not like Reach or 3 in that regard.
This is quite alarming.
But there is no excuse for tha lack of maps. Its obvious the gameplay is the best its ever been, superior to any shooter and fans are crying out for more places to try it out. I dont like to shit on 343 like many here, but its a serious oversight. They will move on, and that investment in the game will have passed and the effort to reinvest just doesnt seem worth it with other games coming out. Time is running out as the stats show.
I hear you.
The game seems to be more polished than MCC, but lacks content. (That being said, I can't even play Halo 5's campaign due to a gamebreaking bug that was not ever seen in MCC)
Do you guys think an extra year of development would have helped?
Possibly, but imo it seems like REQs and Warzone may have taken considerable amount of resource at the cost of other areas, they're trying to pass off Forge maps as BTB maps which is shameless. I played H3 Standoff last night, its superior to what they gave us in H5. I want H5 to succeed man, i want it to do well, but what were they thinking?
But Warzone lacks variety... the campaign cutscenes are unusually short as well. The game feels like it was being strangled the whole way through.
It's a shame, really. I went from cautiously curious about the game in March... to hyped, to not hyped after E3, to incredibly hyped after HTT and the opening cutscene/blue team missions, to what is basically despair.
Like MCC, so much potential, lost for other reasons.
I'm personally fine with the forge maps. They're all really good IMO. Sure they're not super pretty but they play really well. Obviously I hope there will be more professionally made maps but I'd also like to see them keep adding forge maps to playlists as well. And it's not like they were going to have brand new maps ready to go less than a month after launch.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
It honestly shatters my mind, how 343 has a brand new epic, never done before gamemode that will capture the casual audience and give them $$ to replace DLC. Then precede to make THREE maps, all of which's armorys/main bases are copy pastes of each other. But maybe there will be alot of variety? Nope 2 games modes, 1 of which has the AI spawning the EXACT same time in the EXACT same place never changing. While the other just massively waters down the already slim content of the first.
I seriously want to see a post-mortem on development, something had to have gone wrong.
I seriously want to see a post-mortem on development, something had to have gone wrong.
343 nailed the gameplay. I like it a lot..
I also like small details. Like When you zoom in with a light rifle . Have you guys seen your buddy or teammates do that? How it opens up? Or how it reflects the light on objects. Pretty cool.
Since we all here love Halo, we gotta also talk about the positive things 343 did. And what they need to get better and what they are missing.
The gameplay is Amazing I think. The MM is great also but it needs some tweaking and content like what my friends here have stated before.
More WZ maps.
Better Spawn. The spawn is mostly broken. When I choice to respawn at my base, They throw me with my friends far far away who is fighting some bosses. So what happens is we lose the base. It throw us in the middle of the battlefield.
To fix this you can add a second option for respawn over a friend.
Real BTB maps.
Some PVE. Firefights. With leveling system . bosses.
And please. Some night maps.
I know it's hard to please everyone, But from what I read in this thread almost everyone wants the same thing now.
Contents...Gametypes..
Don't take too long 343. I don't wanna see Halo drops to number 20 in most played games .
Campaign wise, Only glassed mission with Blue team I liked. It reminded me of CE. Alien, Exploring, Mystery. Not to exaggerates but am sure I've replayed the CE campaign over 500 times. It was magical. They need to get back to that.
I also like small details. Like When you zoom in with a light rifle . Have you guys seen your buddy or teammates do that? How it opens up? Or how it reflects the light on objects. Pretty cool.
Since we all here love Halo, we gotta also talk about the positive things 343 did. And what they need to get better and what they are missing.
The gameplay is Amazing I think. The MM is great also but it needs some tweaking and content like what my friends here have stated before.
More WZ maps.
Better Spawn. The spawn is mostly broken. When I choice to respawn at my base, They throw me with my friends far far away who is fighting some bosses. So what happens is we lose the base. It throw us in the middle of the battlefield.
To fix this you can add a second option for respawn over a friend.
Real BTB maps.
Some PVE. Firefights. With leveling system . bosses.
And please. Some night maps.
I know it's hard to please everyone, But from what I read in this thread almost everyone wants the same thing now.
Contents...Gametypes..
Don't take too long 343. I don't wanna see Halo drops to number 20 in most played games .
Campaign wise, Only glassed mission with Blue team I liked. It reminded me of CE. Alien, Exploring, Mystery. Not to exaggerates but am sure I've replayed the CE campaign over 500 times. It was magical. They need to get back to that.
Time will tell and hopefully we get some development truths along the way. If you think the Warden boss fights, the pointless talking missions were just bad development as something else fell through, that's bad but fair enough shit happens, if it was an actual choice they thought was amazing, oh dear.
If they are drip feeding content but of the standard we already have, I think 343 need to take a good look at themselves and change things. Where is the creativity and great design. Can we just have something that isn't insert base design 101 or an alien monstrosity Transformers would be proud of. Make something cool, fun, stretch your legs, loosen the lore aspect.
If they are drip feeding content but of the standard we already have, I think 343 need to take a good look at themselves and change things. Where is the creativity and great design. Can we just have something that isn't insert base design 101 or an alien monstrosity Transformers would be proud of. Make something cool, fun, stretch your legs, loosen the lore aspect.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Why does the lighting on the characters look so bad in multiplayer?
king grimlock
Member
I am curious how this game got a T rating after seeing the different player assassinations and the AI assassinations, especially the promethean soldier one where you tackle it and it tries to shield its face only to have it's arms forced away and get stabbed in the head, really brutal animation.
No blood?
Man I just realized I have 31 common unlocks left to get. All off them customization items which I could care less about.
If it weren't for the inclusion of a bunch of useless vehicle variants, I might have made a bunch more progress on them buy now, but man, I'd like to turn of custom items altogether...
There's plenty of blood... Just no gore since there is no flood in the game at all.
If it weren't for the inclusion of a bunch of useless vehicle variants, I might have made a bunch more progress on them buy now, but man, I'd like to turn of custom items altogether...
There's plenty of blood... Just no gore since there is no flood in the game at all.
It wouldn't be master chief focused
Doesn't even have to be Spartan focused
You could be Spartans, Odst, Rebels, Covenant
The possibilities are endless
Diablohead
Member
I think it's the metal shaders they use on the armour, it's not very good.
Depending on the map, character models can range from okay looking to ugly in MP. Could it have to do with the dynamic resolution? (I have no idea.)
Times have changed though. It's not 2007 anymore. Look at what's ahead of it.
-COD: it is what it is
-FIFA: which is like crack to Europeans
-GTA which had like what, 8 million people logging on to play GTAO a day( I know not all on the Xbox)
- Destiny: honestly, I don't know what people are even doing in Destiny anymore
-Madden: American crack
-Battlefront: fizzling out after a week
- Fallout: Suprised at the longevity so far
There weren't that many games back then to compete with. As soon as people realize that things have changed and Halo isn't the only game around but a solid title, the better it'll be
lolosgolos
Banned
Sounds excellent I can buy that
natethegreat409
Member
Exactly. It isn't the lone juggernaut it use to be. My brother and friends use to love Halo, but now they're into the games that have a low TTK and high auto aim. Struggling in a fps isn't fun to a lot of people I know. Personally, I love feeling as if I am getting better and better.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
Ok lets do some math, stats from that neogaf post that I'm not going to hunt down right now.
Halo 3-1 year from launch, 1.1million concurrent users. Lets say it sold 10mil just to tilt the numbers for a best case h5 scenario. 9.09% of people playing a year after launch.
Halo 5-Lets do 2 million copies, once again for a skewed H5 result, I think its more 3-4. Concurrent users~125k. 6.25% of people playing it a MONTH after launch.
I guess you can argue people that buy h5, also buy gta, battlefront, cod, fifa and madden but....yeah. The people buying H5 aren't playing it. Low sales+low engagement.
The content arguement for MP kind of falls when you have Destiny, Destiny shiped with less gametypes ( and It still have less gametypes) than Halo and around the same map count, so I dont think if Halo 5 had oddball and KotH on release it would had made a real difference, Before calling out the population I will wait and see how next month goes, I doubt that 343 use their metrics on a current conected user basis.
I forgot the part where Halo 3 and Halo Reach had to compete against 3 high profile FPS....and BTW, Halo Reach didnt had 900k concurrent user after one year, Halo Reach had a 24 hour player counter.
I forgot the part where Halo 3 and Halo Reach had to compete against 3 high profile FPS....and BTW, Halo Reach didnt had 900k concurrent user after one year, Halo Reach had a 24 hour player counter.
Halo is definitely the high skilled console FPS now. I don't think its unfair to compare it to CSGO, where the skill gaps are going to be pretty large, and the quality of the baseline game is going to give it long legs. It's going to overtake a bunch of the games in the top 10 at the moment. It just needs that casual side that even CSGO has for people to practice and have fun in and not get frustrated on.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
Meh your right. Still though, so much defending. Its a MONTH after release and is this bad. This christmas why would you pick H5 over the other 7 games? June 2016 the game will be barren.
That's what I'm saying. Halo HAD a universe primed to explore all that PRIOR to halo 5. But the threat looming from the end of Halo5 would put all of that to the back burner.
I'd be all for a Kilo-5 themed, persistent online (RPG even) set in a halo Universe with UNSC, ONI, rebels, and Alien factions, jockeying for power in a post-covenant universe. It would provide plenty of excuses to travel to different planets, and the political mess that the universe was in would have allowed for some unique enemy encounters thanks to varying alliances.
Could have even allowed players to progress from Marine to ODDT to SpartanIV. Or move up through Sangheli ranks.
If they were going to do something like this it would have to predate the events of H5 if it were to make any sense.
Astro has some BF deals, if people are interested. Even in other regions than US such as Germany, France and UK:
http://www.astrogaming.com/blackfriday
Great Headset and I'd jump on the Xbox One MixAmp TR, that doesn't require the chat adapter anymore, if I had money.
http://www.astrogaming.com/blackfriday
Great Headset and I'd jump on the Xbox One MixAmp TR, that doesn't require the chat adapter anymore, if I had money.
Ol No Bones
Banned
I agree that Halo 5 needs more modes. So I'm not in complete disagreement with you, but lets not pretend that Halo is lacking relative to most games. Its only lacking compared to Halo and we know they are working hard to bring more content over a period of time. I want more maps and modes but that's only because this game is so damn good. Also, while warzone has its issues let acknowledge that the mode is a pretty big and unique to the Halo experience. While some halo features and modes are absent at this time they do have some big new interesting features.
So much "defending"? More like just using facts, people like to point fingers in the incorrect direction to fit their agenda, but botton line is that video game and video gamers have change their playing habits, and the online trends in video game have changed, there are more options than Halo, and been Halo the one that is the hardest to do good at, is the one that is going to suffer, you can trow whatever Past Halo you want in todays market and the result in its population is going to be similar, the evidence is there when Black Ops 2 is still pulling high numbers, in the millions in monthly users , and the crown jewell Halo 3 is a wasteland ever since Halo Reach was released.
Is mission 13 solo on Heroic supposed to feel really difficult? Is it just really hard but reasonable, meant to be co-op, or am I just doing it wrong? The
. They're like bullet sponges and they'd fast, so getting behind them typically results in death. I can imagine how they would be much easier with smarter teammates who could help flank effectively. Thinking about just turning down the difficulty for this part, or getting a friend to help.
wardens are kicking my ass, wiping out my whole team quickly
Are you using the D pad to send them to flank? I think there should be some power weapons they can pick up to if you direct them.
There's also a way to skip the fight if you're at the hair pulling, controller flying-through-your-tv stage
People trying to compare h5 online population to halo 2 and 3 are hilarious. It's as dumb as me saying halo 5 is doing well with the statement 'Look how much higher the halo 5 online population is than halo 1!!'
Its a completely different set of circumstances.
Also agree with your content vs destiny argument. Destiny barely had a single player story on top of having very little multi content.
To be fair, a lot lovers of Halo have grown up with the series and most don't have time to dedicate 4-5 hours a day to the game to get a little better. There needs to be balance.
inoperativ
Member
This is probably the single most important motivation for why the sustain plan is the way it is. It would be really clever of MS to introduce free Halo 5 weekends next year BTW, once the content starts adding up I think it would get a lot of people that don't follow the updates to re-engage with the game. I also hope they are planning for the longer term than just Summer 2016, I think they should focus on keeping Halo 5 alive for the rest of the XB1 lifetime like someone else said.
What the game really needs is a series of Daily and Weekly Challenges for the Campaign that grant Req Points or even full packs themselves. Reach was amazing with campaign challenges. That's probably what made me stick with the game despite Black Ops.
natethegreat409
Member
Very true. I have limited time myself now being a husband and a father now. I go days without playing. I get somewhat frustrated because of it but i enjoy a hard fps. This one plays wonderfully, but i can see where casuals will have issues. I think Halo has past its prime as being the fps console juggernaut. But they made one hell of a great playing game.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
Great idea, they need to do this IMO. Would be great to have a free weekend before the HWC, then during have a 25-50% sale to capture the hype of a probably 2.5mil tourny. Anyone have a link of Bravo saying they want to emulate Valve's post launch support?
It will be interesting to see if tournaments with large prize pools do anything for halo's player ship...
I also wonder if 343i will do anything to make the ingame spectator mode more obvious. It's pretty well hidden right now.
So ... these spawns totally aren't broke or anything
I give up on BTB though. BR starts ruin everything.
I give up on BTB though. BR starts ruin everything.
I am using the d pad to send them to focus fire or to pick a position on the map so the Warden's back will be turned to me. Those tactics worked on the prior fights, but this one is different because there are two of those bastards, knights, soldiers, and crawlers.
I'm not to the hair pulling stage,but I think I'm okay with the idea of skipping that fight until I go through it co-op. I'll look it up. Thank you!
I'm not to the hair pulling stage,
EDIT: I'm going to give it another go.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
Ive never had that happen to me in any game type.
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