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Halo 5: Guardians |OT4| You picked a helluva week to join up
- Thread starter Fuchsdh
- Start date
Triscuitable
Member
I disagree. There's a few reasons for that:
- It's a lot less work for a studio to make new assets for a game that's already by-and-large completed.
- The fan appeal of remaking an old Halo title is something Microsoft and 343i are very well aware of.
- It basically prints money.
- It fills in the gap in a year without a Halo game, letting the primary dev teams at 343i work on Halo 6 for a 2018 release.
I don't really care for Halo 3, but "it was on the Master Chief Collection" isn't really a good reason for them not to do this. Remaking Halo 3 is a license to print money, which is something that Microsoft isn't going to ignore, even if 343i isn't terribly interested in the idea. Halo 2 Anniversary was being developed on the side while Halo 5 was in development, so it's hardly impossible for 343i to have a B-team work on H3A while they put work into Halo 6. Plus, it lets Microsoft release the Halo 6 beta to owners of Halo 3 Anniversary, which would keep with the theme of Halo betas.
Yeah, but after the reception of MCC and Halo 5 selling less than previous entries, they may not be as sure as "it prints money" as before.
The Anniversary of 1 and 2 already did what thet were intended to: bring those 2 games to "360 visuals/pre Halo 4 parity".
An Anniversary 3 would be for what? To bring the visuals up to 4/5 quality? Then people would want the same for 1 and 2.
I'm not opposed to the idea, but it would make more sense to just wait. If it's about filling gaps, then smaller chapters ala ODST using the 5 engine done by said B-team to experiment around would be better.
Like a Warzone Firefight standalone release were people can control Spartans and Covenants, or a 4 player co-op side mission between the events of Halo 5 and 6.
Of course, September 2017 is the 10th year anniversary of Halo 3, so the date fits with a re-release.
Samurai G0SU
Member
I love halo but I would see no absolute reason to buy halo 3 if they released it as a remaster of some sort.
Play mp? Haha! After the amazingNess of halo 5 mp, I'd rather not ever go back to sloth movement.
In all all seriousNess it would sell 2000 copies.
Play mp? Haha! After the amazingNess of halo 5 mp, I'd rather not ever go back to sloth movement.
In all all seriousNess it would sell 2000 copies.
YourExWife
Member
When the camera can't figure out how GP works #justhalothings
Triscuitable
Member
I think people have forgotten how outrageously popular Halo 3 was at launch. Tapping into that market again is a surefire way to make a profit. Even if it's not an enormous gain, money is still money, and there's a lot to be had from Halo 3 nostalgia.
Halo 2 Anniversary definitely couldn't have been done on the 360, for one. Two, the Anniversary releases are about bringing the games back with a fresh coat of paint, not necessarily bringing them all up to par. Going by what you said, people should have been clamoring for a Halo CE Anniversary back when the Master Chief Collection came out, when H2A was boasting some absolutely gorgeous visuals. But they didn't, so it's a moot point.
It's been ten years. You don't exactly "wait" to celebrate an anniversary.
That's my point.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Hmmm halo 3 nostalgia..
Hmmmmm .... with the mp sure? but wouldnt the 1080p 60fps transfer in the mcc done that for them though?
I just want to know the inventive of rebuying halo 3 is, if ppl are basically getting it for free now with the new Xbox one s bundles?
Convince me.
Hmmmmm .... with the mp sure? but wouldnt the 1080p 60fps transfer in the mcc done that for them though?
I just want to know the inventive of rebuying halo 3 is, if ppl are basically getting it for free now with the new Xbox one s bundles?
Convince me.
yeah they would have to add A LOT to it to justify it. Like you said they are still doing bundles and you can get the MCC for $7.50 right now.
The only way it could be justified is if they did a PC version too imo.
Forerunner
Member
I haven’t played Halo in a while, so I feel like playing!
*Turns on Xbox*
Xbox One needs a +1 GB update.
“Well, that’s annoying.”
Update finished now I can play some Halo!
Halo 5 needs a 200mb update.
“Give me a fucking break.”
I’m rusty so let me play some BTB to warm up!
The game was alright, however I wish it was
Ok, let me do my placement matches!
Oh boy, Rig against +1800 Onyxes players. We lost!
“Hmm maybe next game won’t be so bad!”
Overgrowth yuck! Champion premade yuck!
I think I’m done for today. FUCK THIS GAME, seriously, fuck this shit ass game. Do you want me to hate your game?! Because your plan is working!
*Turns on Xbox*
Xbox One needs a +1 GB update.
“Well, that’s annoying.”
Update finished now I can play some Halo!
Halo 5 needs a 200mb update.
“Give me a fucking break.”
I’m rusty so let me play some BTB to warm up!
The game was alright, however I wish it was
BTB pistol starts.
Ok, let me do my placement matches!
Oh boy, Rig against +1800 Onyxes players. We lost!
“Hmm maybe next game won’t be so bad!”
Overgrowth yuck! Champion premade yuck!
I think I’m done for today. FUCK THIS GAME, seriously, fuck this shit ass game. Do you want me to hate your game?! Because your plan is working!
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
H3A would break a million. Come on now.
And honestly, I wouldn't mind it. I'd much prefer a re-release of TMCC with Reach and H5 multiplayer included, but who knows if they'll ever update it.
//==========
The Halo 5 experience -- Get into a battle, enemy escapes
, their teammate comes from behind, I notice the red dot, I thrust to avoid the fast-approaching red dot (predicted Spartan Charge), then /Halo:
https://gfycat.com/SickElegantChipmunk
Spartan Charge is a good addition that doesn't need to be removed, but it certainly needs some tweaks.
And honestly, I wouldn't mind it. I'd much prefer a re-release of TMCC with Reach and H5 multiplayer included, but who knows if they'll ever update it.
//==========
The Halo 5 experience -- Get into a battle, enemy escapes
(note how I fling my reticle to keep up after their thrust (they hit a wall so I readjusted - this process is understandably frustrating because thrust is a fundamental part of gameplay now, something I'm sure some have a subconscious issue with despite loving thruster (myself included))
https://gfycat.com/SickElegantChipmunk
Spartan Charge is a good addition that doesn't need to be removed, but it certainly needs some tweaks.
I should note, that the stats I was mentioning was all about kills. So if someone was using the AR to assist in a kill, it wouldn't neccisarily show up where I was looking.
There are some situations where using a AR is 100% superior to using a precision weapons. Lower skilled players will just use AR all the time, because they don't have good shots.
Highly skilled players will be more likely to use the AR specifically when it benefits their situation. Team shot situations is probably 1 of them, why have both players emptying their pistol on an almost guarunteed kill?
Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised if Auto use looks a bit like a sin wave. Lower skilled users favoring the AR in every situation because they suck. Mid tier players favoring their pistols, because it allows them to create separation from the low level players. Then AR use rises again because high skilled players are more keen to capitalize on situational advantages.
This clip makes me so angry. Seeing it just reminds me of how many times I've heard SC isn't currently broken and everyone just needs to git gud. I agree all it needs is some tweaks, but you played that perfectly and still got hit due to an apparently rediculous turning radius (if you pause it just after 8s, your reticle is aimed at his back while he's mid SC)
QuantumSquid
Member
I'm pretty stoked because I don't have jack shit in terms of hard-to-get armor pieces and I just got the Helioskrill Warbound legendary helmet out of a free "thanks for playing Warzone Firefight" gold pack.
The new graphics layer for Halo 3 Anniversary should be a demake to mid-90s 3D. Environment lighting specified by low-res geometry volumes, color palate is 16-bit, lighting is flat ambient-only, textures are low-res and use nearest-neighbor sampling, objects are represented by low-res sprites with different baked viewing angles, skybox is a scrolling layer with funky projection to make it "not completely break" when you look straight up, no blended transparency, etc. Ground-level on-map environment geometry would be exactly the same, though, including water... which would just be covered with a scrolling water texture that looks absolutely bonkers when distorted by the wave system.
And the control room catwalk would have real-time reflections, just like Halo 1.
And the control room catwalk would have real-time reflections, just like Halo 1.
ATOMICJORGE
Member
I did it, I F*CKING DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you very much FATstronaut for your help with the shipping to Mexico and thank you Lomboc for letting me use your credit card man I'm so happy right now I can't believe it :')
Zoso Achilles
Member
Please no in regards to halo 3 anniversary.
GringoSuave89
Banned
And there are plenty who would willingly go back. Not everything is a zero sum game. They can have a H3A while you still have H5 to play while they work on Halo 6.
I don't necessarily want H3A either. The fight is finished, but not going to limit choice. Can you imagine a ten year Halo 3 anniversary launch with scorpio as a launch title.
GringoSuave89
Banned
oh, I get there is a demand for such a remaster/rerelease, I just don't know why they'd bother to waste time and resources on it. especially since, after MCC, there's a history of setting their sights too high and not delivering. Especially since such a remake would likely employ a third party studio. just rather we not go down that road again.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I've always wanted a mainline Halo to do something different than the more detailed and realistic design. Something more down the line of CE, maintaining the vibrant colors and simplicity in art design.
Shit, or even make a cel-shaded Halo game.
Forerunner
Member
Won four games and got Diamond 4. Whatever, it's halfway through the season and MM sucks.
This game drives me crazy. I love the gameplay, but some of the other aspects of it are so bad. I'm not going to rant this time!
23r9uhoiahsfdwe[asi0eguhjodxzkpvjdfs
poghjd
f]pbg
k,;
This game drives me crazy. I love the gameplay, but some of the other aspects of it are so bad. I'm not going to rant this time!
23r9uhoiahsfdwe[asi0eguhjodxzkpvjdfs
poghjd
f]pbg
k,;
Triscuitable
Member
The MCC was originally just going to be Halo 2 Anniversary. It became a collection after Microsoft pushed the company to do something that was basically impossible with the time alotted to them. So they outsourced a lot of teams that really shouldn't have been working on the game to port them into a collection. The result of at least six different development studios working on the project was inevitably going to be a disaster.
On the other hand, the work 343i put into Halo 2 Anniversary shows they clearly put time and effort into making that product a worthwhile Halo experience.
As for "wasting time and resources", putting your other teams that aren't engaged in big projects like Halo 6 and whatnot to work on something like Halo 3 Anniversary is hardly a waste, especially when millions of people out there have nostalgic memories of Halo 3, and would love to return to it, given the opportunity.
Well H2A minus the shit of making all the games work together in one UI was alright. The campaign was decently remastered and the gameplay was okay for the few maps they had and the forge as well.
Again, when you have nothing lined up for 2017 in terms of mainline, they are not wasting anything. Halo 6 not coming that soon. It would so much more cost effective to pay a third party studio a couple of million to remaster the campaign for 900p30, dynamic 1080pr and improve it, build a Halo 3 style LP using Halo 5 code and engine and launch as a launch title for their new Scorpio, than not.
MCC faltered from the fact they released too early, made it too ambitious and did not test properly. The run up to the launch of the game showed several problems. There won't be Gears next year, and it is the 10 year anniversary for Halo 3. Imagine seeing the Halo 3 reveal trailer but remastered for H3A at E3 next year. Don't tell me you won't be excited.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qyPQDGmJoCk
Remastered for Scorpio launch, ship it.
Zoso Achilles
Member
Do you all want reach anniversary too? How about halo 4? Does every halo game get released twice?
Double Donut
Member
I really hope 3A doesn't happen.
CE and 2 made sense because they were the only two Halos not made in the HD era.
Halo 3 still looks absolutely gorgeous and holds up today well, even if there are some small bits that are a bit outdated (insert Lord Hood face here).
CE and 2 made sense because they were the only two Halos not made in the HD era.
Halo 3 still looks absolutely gorgeous and holds up today well, even if there are some small bits that are a bit outdated (insert Lord Hood face here).
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Nah, they could just reset the cycle. So in 2021 would be CEAA.
Triscuitable
Member
lol
But seriously I'd rather 343i just remakes the whole original trilogy and leaves it at that (even if Reach's performance on X1 is fucking awful). But since HCEA and the MCC (backing on H2A) sold really well, I wouldn't be surprised if we got H3A. After that, it's pretty much up to Microsoft to continue the remakes.
If they decided to do Reach I would be happy if they just decided to upscale it as is. It's still a great looking game, it just plays terribly due to the weird motion blur and framerate.
GringoSuave89
Banned
ODST 2. Believe.
Idk, the whole thing is just unneeded in my eyes. Halo 3 in the MCC holds up crazy well. More than anything, I'm just tired of remasters. Even the ones I wanted (Batman Arkham games, Bioshock trilogy) left me temped when they were announced. I say just release a 10 map dlc of fan favorite maps in Halo 5, make it free, call it a day. Hell, make it a big req collection if you must. But I certainly don't think a full H3A release is worth the manpower or time.
To each their own.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
GringoSuave89
Banned
Gonna wait for a full unboxing before deciding to order the next box. Nothing has grabbed me yet.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
How they resisted a sales marketing pun of "Hurry stocks limited so Locke it in today!" is beyond me. /dad pun
Triscuitable
Member
Aye, the low sample rate on the motion blur and the archaic implementation of temporal anti-aliasing really holds back the game visually. Even FXAA would be preferable in this day and age.
QuantumSquid
Member
Halo Reach at 1080p 60fps would blow minds - it's still a fantastic looking game.
Forerunner
Member
I don't think sample count is the key Reach-specific issue. Blurs in 3 and ODST look cleaner, but have the same number of samples.
There are two things that I suspect might be contributing to the issue.
One, Bungie has said that the blending on Halo 3's motion blur is gamma-correct, while Reach's is not. This means that blending results can be somewhat inaccurate, and relevantly, can appear to have incorrect "opacity."
Two, some elements are masked from the motion blur, as you can see with some tree branches in the above Reach image. I'm not quite sure why this is; this masking is generally done with animated objects, which makes me suspect it a side-effect of a scheme to prevent TAA ghosting by masking problem-case objects. Whatever the cause, it's obviously rather odd. It's a bit difficult to explicitly spot the artifact in motion, but it's possible that it nonetheless contributes to the dirtiness in the end result.
In and of itself, I actually think the TAA gets a bit more flak than it deserves. Ghosting is pretty obvious in cutscenes, but in gameplay there aren't really a ton of notable sources. Any pixel where significant movement is detecting (according to the logic used for motion blur) disables its TAA, and lots of obvious potential animated ghosting sources are masked from TAA. Although there are some sources, like non-masked minor foliage (grass being notable), which can ghost when the player is standing still and not turning the camera:
People sometimes suggest that the previous frame is just clumsily blended on top of the new one, but I think this might be a mis-perception of the motion blur. Sometimes when you slowly rotate the camera, long edges such as cliffs and trees look like they're experiencing a choppy single-sample blend, but if you actually freeze the frame...
...it's the motion blur, where perhaps the gamma-incorrectness is causing multiple samples to look like one.
Incidentally, the TAA actually is gamma-corrected. Which is good, because gamma-incorrectness on AA is a typical cause of "this AA is just kind of broken and doesn't seem to do much" syndrome.
Beyond that, the other complaint I've seen (albeit less often) is that the TAA uses a quincunx blend pattern. The benefit is some things look smoother when antialiased, the penalty is that it softens the image a bit. I have to agree that it's a bit of an odd choice for an AA that only acts on static elements... for all the crap they get, wide sample patterns can be tremendous for stabilizing things in motion. But, the impacts seem less beneficial in stills; for all the "you're getting an extra 3 samples at each pixel for free" jargon from NVidia, edges still look 2x-sampled, not 5x-sampled. Because they are 2x-sampled. It would be interesting to ask Bungie how they settled on this decision.
The TAA definitely does successfully give stills a supersampled look, though:
Unfriendly TimeTraveler
Member
The most I ever would of wanted from reach was for it to be on the mcc. The game plays bad feels slow and aside from some Spartan designs nothing was really all that special. Hated most of the maps and forgot the rest, hell played the other day and all I played were forge maps (thanks voting system). Can understand people wanted this but would rather remember reach than have to relive it. 343 needs to work on the next game and fix all the problems people have with five and have the next halo fine tuned. Hope they do no more remasters cause I want new halo experiences not ones I already had with a new coat of paint.
Triscuitable
Member
Good breakdown.
The problem I have with the game's implementation mostly comes from the foliage ghosting and blurring. While the implementation in-game is solid, I feel it muddies up the image too much for its own good. In Siege and Fallout, you can easily inject sharpening into the image, and Doom offers a sharpening filter already. But for Reach, it looks more like the image has been gently smudged at the edges. That's fine, of course, but when you're already dealing with poorly-implemented per-object motion blur and lots of ghosting from the AA method, why not just go with FXAA, or even 2xMSAA? I get that MSAA isn't ideal (ever), but at the time, it was still a fairly common aliasing solution.
Either way, my biggest problem with Reach is the fact that it uses motion blur at all. I hate motion blur, and all Reach's does is muddy up the screen in the middle of a hectic firefight. It's ugly, and to make matters worse, the game would've performed better without it.
Probably partly just because it was still pretty new at the time and everyone was trying different things; FXAA was published about 18 months prior to Reach's ship date, so while it probably could have been included if someone had said "let's try this one thing", that would have been another decision on the agenda.
It also wouldn't be a strict improvement. Well-sampled softness would be replaced with rough guesswork, and both AA methods fail to prevent obvious shimmer in moving scenes.
There are serious challenges getting it to work correctly and efficiently with deferred lighting, which Reach uses.
Also, it would have required rendering into tiled buffers thanks to the 360's 10MB eDRAM size, adding pipeline latency and decreasing geometry efficiency.
5-7 collectibles too, I'll bet $0.01 on Locke one hand leaping a grunt on the left. Any thoughts on the others? Chief seems like an obvious one. Also it's cool they can be swapped with a little rod stand thingy.
I didn't pull the trigger, but will follow the releases. I really like the look, but I'm in a weird want/need place right now.
It'd also get weird as Halo CEA and H2A both used Halo 3 and Reach assets a lot as the "upressed" models, even to the point that the tank in CEA has a blank spot where the Reach engine would put the passenger turret. They didn't even bother to re-texture it.
So upressed H3 in the MCC and a potential 60fps 1080p Reach, with no more graphical work, are technically already in line with CEA and H2A for the most part. So, the best improvements for 3 would be higher texture resolution for the characters (those faces, yo) and the guns (because they're up right in your face most of the time).
Outside of echoing Homeboyd's PCversion plox for both 3 and Reach re-releases, this is what I'd want out of an H3A:
- Higher res textures.
- Re-record gravemind dialogue (with the same actor, obviously) so it all fits together, instead of the weird hybrid of new H3 lines and old re-used H2 audio.
- If you really want to, get Blur to animate cutscenes for Halo 3 in CGI to match H2A. But spitshining the models like CEA would be good enough.
And the main point that I wish they would have done for MCC Halo 3:
Rework the multiplayer map data to allow every map to be fully Forged. Add every weapon to all maps so you can start with all guns. Add the ability to move and delete the Sandtrap elephants ourselves, and update Epitaph and Snowbound to have their shield doors be true Forge objects without the left over door-sounds from how Bungie removed them before.
Those were more technical limitations of the original release and not artistic design decisions (not enough RAM to hold every gun in memory, for example) so it'd be nice to have that "what if" version of H3 where you can have Carbine starts or PR starts (especially for Midship H3)
So upressed H3 in the MCC and a potential 60fps 1080p Reach, with no more graphical work, are technically already in line with CEA and H2A for the most part. So, the best improvements for 3 would be higher texture resolution for the characters (those faces, yo) and the guns (because they're up right in your face most of the time).
Outside of echoing Homeboyd's PCversion plox for both 3 and Reach re-releases, this is what I'd want out of an H3A:
- Higher res textures.
- Re-record gravemind dialogue (with the same actor, obviously) so it all fits together, instead of the weird hybrid of new H3 lines and old re-used H2 audio.
- If you really want to, get Blur to animate cutscenes for Halo 3 in CGI to match H2A. But spitshining the models like CEA would be good enough.
And the main point that I wish they would have done for MCC Halo 3:
Rework the multiplayer map data to allow every map to be fully Forged. Add every weapon to all maps so you can start with all guns. Add the ability to move and delete the Sandtrap elephants ourselves, and update Epitaph and Snowbound to have their shield doors be true Forge objects without the left over door-sounds from how Bungie removed them before.
Those were more technical limitations of the original release and not artistic design decisions (not enough RAM to hold every gun in memory, for example) so it'd be nice to have that "what if" version of H3 where you can have Carbine starts or PR starts (especially for Midship H3)
Samurai G0SU
Member
I still doubt Halo 3 Anniversary is happening. We will have Halo Wars 2 and 6 months support. Plus Frankie said Halo 3 still looks good and wouldn't need an anniversary. I'd rather have them making more content for Halo 5 (H3A themed update) or an other spinoff title, tbh.
Also, if Halo Reach ever gets a 1080p/60FPS port, please just remove the bloom from the Campaign at least. Thanks.
Also, if Halo Reach ever gets a 1080p/60FPS port, please just remove the bloom from the Campaign at least. Thanks.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Watch the next halo 5 update pay homage to halo 3 with a remake of ivory tower. Lol
And finally a new armor of Hayabusa. Maybe a flaming helmet too?
And finally a new armor of Hayabusa. Maybe a flaming helmet too?
Forerunner
Member
orichalcos
Member
VincentMatts
Member
It just makes me want it more and add to that reminds me how much more i prefer Bungies Medal visual design to 343s.
Edit: there really needs to be a proper Halo collection with everything in it that works. That fact that i even have to say this after MCC has already released is fucking ridiculous.