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[Mr Vociferous]

Console LANs were/are awesome, my friends and I had them up until last summer. Hopefully we start up again.

I used to dominate my Halo 1 LANs religiously. Pistol starts on Blood Gulch, myself and one other dude (who shared in the domination fun) against twelve other players - and we'd win. Repeatedly. Then, of course, I traveled outside my frail, little Halo ecosystem and had the rude awakening a lot of folks ended up having: Wow, I actually suck.

 

[broony]

My take on why no CE multiplayer. All a complete guess on my part. I have no real knowledge about the systems involved or the intelligence to even begin to understand:

It would be ridiculously hard to do and the resource required would not weigh up to the demand.

OK, to start with there is absolutely 0 code in CE that deals with latency. So the who networking model would have to be re written.

Xbox live did not exist at all. There will be no hooks at all that have the first idea what Xbox live is and how to communicate with the service. All Live code would have to be written from scratch.

There was no matchmaking or party system at all in CE. You would have to re write the party code and re implement the matchmaking system from scratch.

All of these things took three games worth of development (9 years) for Bungie to get to the stage they are with Reach. Bungie are now busy with other things and I doubt they can spare even one person to go over to 343 to attempt to re write all these things for CE. Even if they could they would really need a whole team of Bungie engineers to demonstrate and explain all the legacy code to 343's network engineers.

Even then there would be an unbelievable amount of polish required to get the networking up to standard that would come close to previous Halo's network code.

343's network engineers will probably in the most part have their hands full with Halo 4 which of course is the main 343 project.

However they will of course have to do this with co-op. This though would in my imagination be a hell of a lot easier to get two people playing together rather than 16. I would not be at all surprised if co-op didn't include matchmaking and was just host game and invite a friend as this would be much simpler to do.

Using Reach as the multiplayer component is a no brainer. All the net code, all the party systems, all the everything, is there already. Just add maps and use the existing multiplayer modifier tools to create custom game types.

For me anyway, although I did enjoy Xbox connect and local multiplayer back in the day, I much preferred the campaign and always have, especially co-op so I am really looking forward to playing through this.

 

[thezerofire]

Frankie, if you can replicate Halo CE's multiplayer on Reach I will never doubt again.

 

[broony]

Frankie, if you can replicate Halo CE's multiplayer on Reach I will never doubt again.

I would keep expectations in check. I reckon it will essentially be an highly tweaked gametype with slightly less gravity, slightly slower movement speed, and increased shields.

 

[HowardRoark]

Do you mean promo image vs toy or toy vs game? If the former, I agree, if the latter IMO there is huge difference. That said, some better effects on the visor can go a long way to make it look better, but that helmet and visor are too weird in the trailer.

I meant the boxart helmet vs the toy helmet. I'm assuming the in-game helmet will be changed before release as Frankie said.

 

[The Librarian]

And more.

I don't think I'm ready!

 

[neclas]

No XBL MP and only 7 maps.

Why shouldn't I just stick with Halo PC?

 

[Diablohead]

Personally playing Halo 1 again with today's visuals, achievements and hopefully some co-op with my cousin is all I need, I should resume the replay of halo 1 I was doing before reach hit.

This remake needs to keep the huge areas, most of the time nothing was hidden or there but you could 1) change up your combat approaches rather well in areas, and 2) it was fun to just explore even if it was pointless.

 

[The Real Napsta]

I would keep expectations in check. I reckon it will essentially be an highly tweaked gametype with slightly less gravity, slightly slower movement speed, and increased shields.

What? Lower? Halo CE movement is much faster than Reach's.

 

[broony]

What? Lower? Halo CE movement is much faster than Reach's.

Sorry yeah faster.

 

[The Antitype]

LMAO!

Halo 3 the worst in the series?

I remember when it came out and it was being praised for single-handedly bringing Halo back to greatness after the abomination that was Halo 2. I never thought Halo 2 was an abomination, but by the end of its run, that was pretty much the consensus.

What a shock, by the end of Halo 3's run, people were saying the same thing and having warm and fuzzy nostalgia for Halo 2, and a lot of excitement for Halo: Reach.

Now Halo: Reach is a year in or so, people hate the changes it made, and wish they could go back to Halo 3.

I swear, if I were 343, I would just ignore Halo fans altogether. Many of them clearly can't decide what they want, they just want to feel the same thing they felt the first time they played Halo:CE or LAN parties at college (or tourneys, whatever). They will inevtiably hate whatever you put out, so just put out whatever the hell you want.

It's like a drug addict trying harder and harder shit, just to recreate the feeling of his very first high.

As for my opinion:

SP: Halo: CE = Halo 3 > Reach > Halo 2

MP: Halo 3 = Reach > Halo CE > Halo 2

 

[The Lamonster]

No XBL MP and only 7 maps.

Why shouldn't I just stick with Halo PC?

Incorrecto. It has online co-op.

 

[Kuroyume]

I never thought Halo 2 was an abomination, but by the end of its run, that was pretty much the consensus.

What are you talking about?

People loved that game so much that it was beating the most popular 360 game (at the time) GOW on the Xbox live charts when they still put the XBOX and 360 games in the same list.

The consensus on Halo 2 is the that single player sucked and that there were too many exploits in multiplayer. It's by far the best online multiplayer game in the series despite that.

No XBL MP and only 7 maps.

Why shouldn't I just stick with Halo PC?

Shiny new graphics and terminals? Lol They listened to the fans.

 

[Detox]

DUn worry we will add a couple of Booshka features.

And more.

Oh God. If I say option for no bloom in custom games and no bloom playlists would I be getting my hopes up too high?

DU replace D with T = TU *faps*

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

What are you talking about?

People loved that game so much that it was beating the most popular 360 game (at the time) GOW on the Xbox live charts when they still put the XBOX and 360 games in the same list.

The consensus on Halo 2 is the that single player sucked and that there were too many exploits in multiplayer. It's by far the best online multiplayer game in the series despite that.



Shiny new graphics and terminals? Lol They listened to the fans.

Halo 2 is shit.

 

[Kuroyume]

Halo 2 is shit.

 

[The Antitype]

What are you talking about?

People loved that game so much that it was beating the most popular 360 game (at the time) GOW on the Xbox live charts when they still put the XBOX and 360 games in the same list.

The consensus on Halo 2 is the that single player sucked and that there were too many exploits in multiplayer. It's by far the best online multiplayer game in the series despite that.

People were playing it cause it was really the only viable multiplayer game on Xbox (nothing else had an active population on Xbox), and the user-base on the 360 wasn't high enough to get any of the average launch titles into the same league.

And like I said, Halo fans will buy and play Halo games, even as they bitch to high heaven about what's wrong with them. You only have to check out the Reach thread in the community forum or play a couple games online. 20% of the population, usually the people yelling at anybody that doesn't pick Slayer Pro, actively hate the game and still play it.

Halo 2 was attacked for a bunch of reasons:
Dual-weilding took the emphasis off the shoot/grenade/melee trifecta. Many matches, especially on the smaller maps, were defined by players spraying-and-praying from both hands. It was fun and cathartic for the casual fans, but didn't have the same satisfaction as great use of grenades and melees and headshots for Halo: CE fans.

Of course, that wasn't much of a problem once you got into the level 30-50 ranks. Instead, you had the noob combo and swipe-sniping issues that made every match a repetitive race for the BR (when you didn't spawn with it) and sniper rifles...oh, and rockets cause...

...The lock-on basically turned vehicles into shambling death-traps instead of real threats. It was much too easy to take vehicles out, and the weapon spawning system at the time basically ensured that the team that got to the rockets first, controlled them for the rest of the match. It was a bigger problem than the laser ever was, because at least the spawns were fixed for Halo 3.

THEN the exploits were nusance.

Anyway, I still loved and played the shit out of Halo 2. I never complained about any of this, I just adapted to it, had fun with the game. Halo 3 fixed all that stuff, added equipment. I adapted to that, loved it even more, and came to play the game at a much higher level than either of the previous games. And now I'm loving the hell out of Reach, putting more hours into it than even Halo 3.

But I've NEVER played a Halo game that people were actually happy with.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Halo 2 is shit.

How dare you!

 

[neclas]

Incorrecto. It has online co-op.

I was under the impression that "MP" usually meant versus-style play and was distinct from "co-op" (it's certainly advertised as separate things).

 

[spons]

Halo 2 is shit.

Was this the one with so many copy pasted environments that you'd wonder why you're going through the same shit for the tenth time in a row? If so it's easily the worst game in the franchise for me.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Was this the one with so many copy pasted environments that you'd wonder why you're going through the same shit for the tenth time in a row? If so it's easily the worst game in the franchise for me.

No, Halo 2 had a good amount of enviroments.

 

[JdFoX187]

No, Halo 2 had a good amount of enviroments.

Indeed. It's campaign wasn't that great, but it had a nice variety. Not to mention it had the best damn multiplayer in the series.

 

[The Antitype]

Indeed. It's campaign wasn't that great, but it had a nice variety. Not to mention it had the best damn multiplayer in the series.

Best multiplayer maps. Not the best multiplayer.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Indeed. It's campaign wasn't that great, but it had a nice variety. Not to mention it had the best damn multiplayer in the series.

Only 3 more years till Halo 2 anniversary :'(

 

[erpg]

Luckily nobody is clamouring for a Halo 2 campaign remake.

 

[Hitmonchan107]

People were playing it cause it was really the only viable multiplayer game on Xbox (nothing else had an active population on Xbox), and the user-base on the 360 wasn't high enough to get any of the average launch titles into the same league.

And like I said, Halo fans will buy and play Halo games, even as they bitch to high heaven about what's wrong with them. You only have to check out the Reach thread in the community forum or play a couple games online. 20% of the population, usually the people yelling at anybody that doesn't pick Slayer Pro, actively hate the game and still play it.

Halo 2 was attacked for a bunch of reasons:

Dual-weilding took the emphasis off the shoot/grenade/melee trifecta. Many matches, especially on the smaller maps, were defined by players spraying-and-praying from both hands. It was fun and cathartic for the casual fans, but didn't have the same satisfaction as great use of grenades and melees and headshots for Halo: CE fans.

Of course, that wasn't much of a problem once you got into the level 30-50 ranks. Instead, you had the noob combo and swipe-sniping issues that made every match a repetitive race for the BR (when you didn't spawn with it) and sniper rifles...oh, and rockets cause...

...The lock-on basically turned vehicles into shambling death-traps instead of real threats. It was much too easy to take vehicles out, and the weapon spawning system at the time basically ensured that the team that got to the rockets first, controlled them for the rest of the match. It was a bigger problem than the laser ever was, because at least the spawns were fixed for Halo 3.

THEN the exploits were nusance.

Anyway, I still loved and played the shit out of Halo 2. I never complained about any of this, I just adapted to it, had fun with the game. Halo 3 fixed all that stuff, added equipment. I adapted to that, loved it even more, and came to play the game at a much higher level than either of the previous games. And now I'm loving the hell out of Reach, putting more hours into it than even Halo 3.

But I've NEVER played a Halo game that people were actually happy with.

My friends, who are some of the most hardcore Halo fans I know (fiction- and multiplayer-wise), won't touch Reach's multiplayer. There's something off-putting about it.

And you can't play Reach alone and expect to have a fun time -- something I've never had an issue with in a Halo game before Reach.

Like the remedy for bad speech, the remedy for bad ideas is more ideas.

 

[tea_and_crumpets]

All the whiny bitching going on about the multiplayer is seriously annoying. You are getting the multiplayer, no it wont be exactly the same. But for $40 you get the complete campagin with Reach graphics and 7 of the original games maps for Reach Multiplayer (playable stand alone or integrated into Reach). Plus there's no reason they can't set up a playlist which has more like the gameplay of Halo CE as we have already seen.

EDIT: Halo 2 was probably the worst game over all. It defiantly had the worst campagin and while I fondly remember it's multiplayer for basically bringing online gaming to consoles (yes I know there was Rainbow 6 and others before hand) it was great for this but the actual mechanics of the game were not as good as Halo CE. That said it had some damn memorable MP maps.

 

[KidA Seven]

Best multiplayer maps. Not the best multiplayer.

Halo 2 MP > Halo 3 MP. I thought that was the consensus.

 

[JdFoX187]

Best multiplayer maps. Not the best multiplayer.

Faster and more smooth than the floaty, slow garbage of Halo 3 and no equipment or armor abilities to give bad players a second life. So, it's still the best.

Only 3 more years till Halo 2 anniversary :'(

Don't remind me

 

[The Antitype]

Halo 2 MP > Halo 3 MP. I thought that was the consensus.

Nah. Weapon balance was better in Halo 3.

Matches in Halo 2 were dominated by spray-and-pray dual-wielding, noob combo and BR combo bullshit, swipe-sniping made the sniper-rifle stupidly over-powered, and the rocket lock-on did more to discourage vehicle play than the laser ever did.

Maps in Halo 2 were better though.

Faster and more smooth than the floaty, slow garbage of Halo 3 and no equipment or armor abilities to give bad players a second life. So, it's still the best.

Meh.

Equipment didn't give anybody a second life, they just introduced new strategies for players and (more frequently) teams to use in a battle. It varied things up, forced players to think on their feet, and generally made combat more interesting.

Well-placed grenades and melees, or intelligent use of surroundings have given players second life since Halo CE. In Reach, everybody has access to an AA, so everybody can use that 'second life' if they use their chosen AA effectively. Use it in effectively, it doesn't help you.

People that complain about armor lock, evade, or whatever the hated AA of the day is are funny.

Every Halo comes down to who can use shoot/grenade/melee better. Navigating all the tactical wrinkles above that core just adds more variety, options, and fun to the experience. Otherwise, we'd be playing the same fucking game we played in 2001, just on new maps.

My friends, who are some of the most hardcore Halo fans I know (fiction- and multiplayer-wise), won't touch Reach's multiplayer. There's something off-putting about it.

And you can't play Reach alone and expect to have a fun time -- something I've never had an issue with in a Halo game before Reach.

Like the remedy for bad speech, the remedy for bad ideas is more ideas.

I applaud your friends and wish more people that hated Reach would take similar action.

As for not having fun playing Reach alone, why? Cause they're more likely to lose? The mechanics in Reach certainly reward teams that play together much more than any other Halo. All of the mechanics come together to make call-outs, broad map strategies, and on-the-fly tactics very important.

But I can hop into Team Deathmatch in the social playlists and still have fun alone. Hopping into objective based games, Arena, MLG, or the like is more frustrating when you're on your own.

I don't consider that a negative. Maybe because I play with a pretty tight group, and we like being challenged to be a better team.

 

[KidA Seven]

Nah. Weapon balance was better in Halo 3.

Matches in Halo 2 were dominated by spray-and-pray dual-wielding, noob combo and BR combo bullshit, swipe-sniping made the sniper-rifle stupidly over-powered, and the rocket lock-on did more to discourage vehicle play than the laser ever did.

Maps in Halo 2 were better though.

-Rocket launcher did not discourage vehicle play more than the laser. It doesn't have the accuracy of the laser, provided that you are good with it.
-Matches are no more dominated by dual wielding than Halo 3 was dominated by ARs.
-Sniping was easier. That is true, but the BR was able to ping the sniper far better than in Halo 3.

Meh.

Equipment didn't give anybody a second life, they just introduced new strategies for players and (more frequently) teams to use in a battle. It varied things up, forced players to think on their feet, and generally made combat more interesting.

Well-placed grenades and melees, or intelligent use of surroundings have given players second life since Halo CE. In Reach, everybody has access to an AA, so everybody can use that 'second life' if they use their chosen AA effectively. Use it in effectively, it doesn't help you.

People that complain about armor lock, evade, or whatever the hated AA of the day is are funny.

Every Halo comes down to who can use shoot/grenade/melee better. Navigating all the tactical wrinkles above that core just adds more variety, options, and fun to the experience. Otherwise, we'd be playing the same fucking game we played in 2001, just on new maps.

It didn't force players to think on their feet. It was a get out of jail free card giving somebody a second life. I mean really. What is there to think about when you have a power drainer, bubble shield, or a regen? Just activate it as soon as you are in a bad position. It's your fault for putting yourself in that shitty position and or getting out skilled and you should die from it.

Armor lock does the same thing as those 3 items. Apart from giving you a second life, the game slows down when those items come into play. I like my Halo fast paced as it was in Halo 2 and CE. I don't understand how slower gameplay makes it more interesting.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

But even a tweaked Reach is an entirely different game from the game they are "honoring."

Well.. to SOME extent so would tweaking the original engine to add prediction and other aspects needed for >0ping play.

And they SHOULD be able to make it pretty damn close. These engines are basically physics simulators, and they have access to the "world settings" for Halo : CE.. the level of gravity.. the weight of objects, etc. It won't be perfect, but it can get pretty damn close.

 

[PooBone]

Best multiplayer maps. Not the best multiplayer.

.

 

[Doodis]

Console LANs were/are awesome, my friends and I had them up until last summer. Hopefully we start up again.

My thirty-something friends and I still do a Halo LAN party twice a year. We just had one on Friday. Always a blast. Sure, we could just jump on Live and play, but it's more fun with everyone in the same house making a party of it.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Luckily nobody is clamouring for a Halo 2 campaign remake.

After replaying it not too long ago its actually not bad at all, just the ending made it all feel dumb, all points up to that where great though.

 

[clav]

Halo 2 MP > Halo 3 MP. I thought that was the consensus.

Halo 2 Maps > Halo 3 Maps

Halo 3 balance > Halo 2 balance

Halo 3 audio > Halo 2 audio

Halo 3 visuals > Halo 2 visuals (although very impressive for its time)

Maps are more important than the rest, so Halo 2 wins.

I still don't understand to this day why Halo 3 and Reach maps were so big. Reach did a better job, but still, it's no Halo 2.

 

[urk]

And like I said, Halo fans will buy and play Halo games, even as they bitch to high heaven about what's wrong with them. You only have to check out the Reach thread in the community forum or play a couple games online. 20% of the population, usually the people yelling at anybody that doesn't pick Slayer Pro, actively hate the game and still play it.

The players who put in the most time earn the right to bitch. They're the people who have to experience all the annoying things most casual players never will. The fact that they complain and continue to play doesn't mean that they hate the experience. Quite the opposite.

Unless we're talking about Ram. His new found hatred burns like the fire of a thousand suns.

 

[PooBone]

After replaying it not too long ago its actually not bad at all, just the ending made it all feel dumb, all points up to that where great though.

I disagree. Yes the ending was disappointing, but there's some levels in that game that are completely not fun, particularly the two MC levels on High Charity.

I'd love them to remake Halo 2, but make some considerable changes to it, unlike what they're doing with Halo CE, which is perfect.

 

[PooBone]

Halo 2 Maps > Halo 3 Maps

Halo 3 balance > Halo 2 balance

Halo 3 audio > Halo 2 audio

Halo 3 visuals > Halo 2 visuals (although very impressive for its time)

Maps are more important than the rest, so Halo 2 wins.

I still don't understand to this day why Halo 3 and Reach maps were so big. Reach did a better job, but still, it's no Halo 2.

How can you say shitty balance on a good map is a good thing?

Balance and map design are the same fucking thing. Maps are designed with gameplay in mind.

 

[Red]

Halo 2 is shit.

It's you and me fighting the good fight, brother.

 

[clav]

How can you say shitty balance on a good map is a good thing?

Balance and map design are the same fucking thing. Maps are designed with gameplay in mind.

The maps in Halo 3 just felt too big. Everything or everyone was around the place compared to Halo 2's.

Reach did a better job with that.

 

[The Librarian]

I don't know. The maps in Halo 3 just felt too big. Everything or everyone was around the place compared to Halo 2's.

Reach did a better job with that.

By and large the maps in Halo 2 were larger than Halo 3's. You'd be hard pressed to find a map bigger than Coagulation and Waterworks in Halo 3 (the most notable map being Sandtrap).

 

[Kibbles]

Halo 2 is the shit.

Fixed.

 

[HowardRoark]

Every Halo comes down to who can use shoot/grenade/melee better. Navigating all the tactical wrinkles above that core just adds more variety, options, and fun to the experience. Otherwise, we'd be playing the same fucking game we played in 2001, just on new maps.

See, I guess this is where I disagree with most Halo fans. I don't want an identical game for a sequel, but I at least want the "feel" and gameplay to be relatively constant, with tweaks and new maps to keep things fresh.

Each game should not reinvent the wheel. That wheel was/is beloved by millions.

 

[Oozer3993]

By and large the maps in Halo 2 were larger than Halo 3's. You'd be hard pressed to find a map bigger than Coagulation and Waterworks in Halo 3 (the most notable map being Sandtrap).

I miss Waterworks. BTB CTF on that map was blissful. If one of Waterworks, Headlong, or Sidewinder is included in this package, I will be a very happy man.

 

[PooBone]

The maps in Halo 3 just felt too big. Everything or everyone was around the place compared to Halo 2's.

Reach did a better job with that.

I love the maps in Halo 2 because of their visual variety. Reach's maps bore me, and there's not that much variety in Halo 3. But to say balance is not as important as map design is just asinine imo.

 

[clav]

See, I guess this is where I disagree with most Halo fans. I don't want an identical game for a sequel, but I at least want the "feel" and gameplay to be relatively constant, with tweaks and new maps to keep things fresh.

Each game should not reinvent the wheel. That wheel was/is beloved by millions.

I disagree.

That's what keeps Halo from becoming one of those generic shooters (i.e. Call of Duty).

I love the maps in Halo 2 because of their visual variety. Reach's maps bore me, and there's not that much variety in Halo 3. But to say balance is not as important as map design is just asinine imo.

I remember I had a lot more fun with Halo 2 than I did with 3 or Reach. 4 player Xbox online sessions vs. the world were the days.

 

[Bread]

Halo 2 is the best multiplayer game I've ever played. It may have had balance issues, but they we weren't bad enough to make the game unplayable or anything like that. The game had glitches, but they were awesome glitches that led to hours and hours of fun in custom games. The maps were easily the best in the series, too. If MS didn't take down the servers, I'd probably be playing it right now.

RIP Halo 2

 

[PooBone]

Halo 2 is the best multiplayer game I've ever played. It may have had balance issues, but they we weren't bad enough to make the game unplayable or anything like that. The game had glitches, but they were awesome glitches that led to hours and hours of fun in custom games. The maps were easily the best in the series, too. If MS didn't take down the servers, I'd probably be playing it right now.

RIP Halo 2

I remember going back to Halo 2 for a couple days before they killed the servers and damn the gameplay felt good. If the game didn't have that fucking sword, and you spawned with a BR instead of an SMG, that would have easily been my favorite MP game ever.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Shishka, over at HBO:

To be clear, what you're talking about is the way Bioshock adds vertical real estate for 4:3 resolutions. The intimation being that widescreen users are supposed to see "more" than 4:3.

Anniversary's widescreen increases horizontal screen realestate rather than cropping the vertical. FOV is adjusted slightly to ensure that it actually feels like you're playing Halo 1 "with extra on the sides." Incidentally, Halo PC's widescreen is achieved by cropping the 4:3 frame.

-S​

Good to know.