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Halo:CE Anniversary Announced (MS Conf, Nov 15th 2011, $40)

claviertekky said:
I disagree.

That's what keeps Halo from becoming one of those generic shooters (i.e. Call of Duty).

I am not advocating a schedule where the devs shit out a game yearly ( I.E. COD), just that the most fun I have had with the Halo series was Halo: CE. Great balance (IMO), feel, and gameplay. Sequels being an extension of that, with improvements would've been better than taking the series in a different direction.
 

PooBone

Member
ncsuDuncan said:
Shishka, over at HBO:
To be clear, what you're talking about is the way Bioshock adds vertical real estate for 4:3 resolutions. The intimation being that widescreen users are supposed to see "more" than 4:3.

Anniversary's widescreen increases horizontal screen realestate rather than cropping the vertical. FOV is adjusted slightly to ensure that it actually feels like you're playing Halo 1 "with extra on the sides." Incidentally, Halo PC's widescreen is achieved by cropping the 4:3 frame.

-S​

Good to know.

That's the way to do it.

Does Shishka work for Certain Affinity again?
 
ncsuDuncan said:
Shishka, over at HBO:
To be clear, what you're talking about is the way Bioshock adds vertical real estate for 4:3 resolutions. The intimation being that widescreen users are supposed to see "more" than 4:3.

Anniversary's widescreen increases horizontal screen realestate rather than cropping the vertical. FOV is adjusted slightly to ensure that it actually feels like you're playing Halo 1 "with extra on the sides." Incidentally, Halo PC's widescreen is achieved by cropping the 4:3 frame.

-S​

Good to know.
I was actually thinking about this earlier: Will Anniversary be widescreen? Glad to hear it will be!

And Shishka!!! Haven't heard from him in awhile. So is he working at 343 now?
 
ncsuDuncan said:
Shishka, over at HBO:
To be clear, what you're talking about is the way Bioshock adds vertical real estate for 4:3 resolutions. The intimation being that widescreen users are supposed to see "more" than 4:3.

Anniversary's widescreen increases horizontal screen realestate rather than cropping the vertical. FOV is adjusted slightly to ensure that it actually feels like you're playing Halo 1 "with extra on the sides." Incidentally, Halo PC's widescreen is achieved by cropping the 4:3 frame.

-S​

Good to know.

I just might have to play through the campaign on "old mode" in widescreen just to experience it.
 
PooBone said:
Does Shishka work for Certain Affinity again?
Dax01 said:
And Shishka!!! Haven't heard from him in awhile. So is he working at 343 now?

Pretty sure he's working at 343.

Domino Theory's old post from a Defiant Map Pack preview event:
Shishka - He's not touching matchmaking like Frank stated, but I knew people would assume he'd be doing that. He's a designer at 343i. I don't know his specific role, but Ellis and Frank told me he did actual design development on the Defiant Map Pack so you can put two and two together to figure out what he's doing. And considering how awesome the Defiant Map Pack is, I have faith in his work. He has experience to back it up, too, with his work on Left 4 Dead and Age of Booty.​
 
ncsuDuncan said:
Pretty sure he's working at 343.

Domino Theory's old post from a Defiant Map Pack preview event:
Shishka - He's not touching matchmaking like Frank stated, but I knew people would assume he'd be doing that. He's a designer at 343i. I don't know his specific role, but Ellis and Frank told me he did actual design development on the Defiant Map Pack so you can put two and two together to figure out what he's doing. And considering how awesome the Defiant Map Pack is, I have faith in his work. He has experience to back it up, too, with his work on Left 4 Dead and Age of Booty.​
Glad to hear he landed an awesome job. :)
 

Lothars

Member
Blueblur1 said:
I'd love a remake of the Halo 2 campaign. I enjoyed it way more than 3's and Reach's campaigns.

I'm glad they are not remaking Halo 2, I hate that game and think it's crap, the story in the game is by far the worst out of any Halo game.

My favorite of all the campaigns are Halo Reach.
 

clav

Member
Lothars said:
I'm glad they are not remaking Halo 2, I hate that game and think it's crap, the story in the game is by far the worst out of any Halo game.

My favorite of all the campaigns are Halo Reach.
Halo 1 still takes the campaign cake.

Reach's campaign was OK. Better than 2's.

Halo 3 I enjoyed the second best, but that's not saying a whole lot since I find Halo campaigns to be mediocre. The Cortana pop-in got annoying the second and third play through.

I'm still waiting for that attack on Earth level.

Remember E3 2003?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_y3cbIV-Xg
 

JdFoX187

Banned
Lothars said:
I'm glad they are not remaking Halo 2, I hate that game and think it's crap, the story in the game is by far the worst out of any Halo game.

My favorite of all the campaigns are Halo Reach.
Did you play Halo 3? There's no objective way you can say that god awful piece of shit of a story is better than Halo 2's. The story in Halo 2 brought a lot of depth and expanded the universe. Halo 3 was some half-assed attempt at wrapping up all the storylines with no real rhyme or reason. Sprinkle in the deaths of a few main characters just to add some "emotional" impact, despite having absolutely no reason to care for them, certainly didn't help.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
Halo 2 is shit.

No, no it wasn't. And it still has the best maps in the series (WHERE THE FUCK IS MY TURF REMAKE, BUNGIE/343!?).
 
Lothars said:
I'm glad they are not remaking Halo 2, I hate that game and think it's crap, the story in the game is by far the worst out of any Halo game.

My favorite of all the campaigns are Halo Reach.
Whoa. Halo 2's story takes the cake of any of the Halo games. The cutscenes are so well done. I enjoyed Halo: Reach's the most. It's consistency in level quality is unmatched in the Halo series, and I actually enjoyed playing the final two levels of Reach. (Ahem – Keyes, Cortana and Coastal Highway make me shudder).
 

clav

Member
JdFoX187 said:
Did you play Halo 3? There's no objective way you can say that god awful piece of shit of a story is better than Halo 2's. The story in Halo 2 brought a lot of depth and expanded the universe. Halo 3 was some half-assed attempt at wrapping up all the storylines with no real rhyme or reason. Sprinkle in the deaths of a few main characters just to add some "emotional" impact, despite having absolutely no reason to care for them, certainly didn't help.
Most people including myself dismiss Halo 2's campaign because we expected a large scale attack and Master Chief had to save Earth.

Instead, we were treated 1-2 levels of Earth that were nothing close to the (perhaps unrealistic) expectations , and then the rest of the game was on Halo because of slipspace.
 
Halo 2 was such a disappointment for me.. I probably put a couple thousand hours into Halo CE co-op... all on Legendary.

Fired up Halo 2 with the same buddy we dominated Halo CE in.. and dual weilding nonsense just ruined the beginning... took hours to get past that.. then.. amazing snipers who kill you the second they see you..

OK.. so I guess no Legendary.. maybe Heroic is like the old Legendary.

Nope.. Heroic was so easy you could just run through the game.

Most unbalanced difficulty levels ever.. dual wielding threw off the balance of the controls and made enemies too difficult.. and when were sniping enemies EVER fun to play against in a single player campaign?

Really couldn't care less about the story.. I've never understood the story hype for the actual Halo games.. it's all about the gameplay and the awesome maps and battles for me.
 
claviertekky said:
Most people including myself dismiss Halo 2 because we expected a large scale attack and Master Chief has to save Earth.

Instead, we were treated 1-2 levels of Earth, and then the rest of the game was on Halo because of slipspace.
The first half of the game deals with the Forerunner research station and Earth, the second half deals with Halo and High Charity. Four distinct sections.

I wasn't part of the Halo 2 hype leading up to its release, so I had no previous going into it. What I got was the best story in a Halo game to date. And the ending is badass now that Halo 3 is out.
 

clav

Member
Dax01 said:
The first half of the game deals with the Forerunner research station and Earth, the second half deals with Halo and High Charity. Four distinct sections.

I wasn't part of the Halo 2 hype leading up to its release, so I had no previous going into it. What I got was the best story in a Halo game to date. And the ending is badass now that Halo 3 is out.
You know there were supposed to be 3 additional levels after that last boss fight.

Joe Staten said it himself at a making of that he did while I attended Northwestern University, and yes I went to that event.

Let's face it. It was rushed as the ideas from the E3 2003 demo were trashed, and Microsoft wanted the game out in 2004. Bungie knew at the time that this game would last for people who love multiplayer, so I feel it's obvious most of their efforts went there.
 
claviertekky said:
You know there were supposed to be 3 additional levels after that last boss fight.

Joe Staten said it himself at a making of that he did while I attended Northwestern University.
Yeah, I know. Doesn't change the fact that the current ending is badass.
 

JdFoX187

Banned
The Antitype said:
Nah. Weapon balance was better in Halo 3.

Matches in Halo 2 were dominated by spray-and-pray dual-wielding, noob combo and BR combo bullshit, swipe-sniping made the sniper-rifle stupidly over-powered, and the rocket lock-on did more to discourage vehicle play than the laser ever did.

Maps in Halo 2 were better though.
You're going to complain about spray and pray while touting Halo 3 as the bastion of good gameplay? That whole fucking game was dominated by spray and fucking pray assault rifles followed by a melee. Add to that the dumbass idea someone at Bungie had to institute double melees where both players would die. Only on larger maps or in MLG or "hardcore" gametypes did you see anything beyond idiots running right at each other with ARs.

Halo 2 had balance where dual wielding worked in close situations, but a skilled BR user could still take them out. Can't do that in Halo 3 because, once again, idiot design choices removed hitscan, making the BR a random, at best, weapon.

The lock-on rocket did nothing to discourage vehicles in the way way the laser did. The laser is a damn vehicle sniper. I remember them touting how skilled one would to be to use it. Big laugh there. Due to shit netcode, you couldn't tell if you were getting painted and you'd blow up out of nowhere. Sandtrap was supposed to be a vehicle paradise, but was completely neutered by the laser. At least with the lock on rocket, it was extremely easy to avoid.

Meh.

Equipment didn't give anybody a second life, they just introduced new strategies for players and (more frequently) teams to use in a battle. It varied things up, forced players to think on their feet, and generally made combat more interesting.

Well-placed grenades and melees, or intelligent use of surroundings have given players second life since Halo CE. In Reach, everybody has access to an AA, so everybody can use that 'second life' if they use their chosen AA effectively. Use it in effectively, it doesn't help you.

People that complain about armor lock, evade, or whatever the hated AA of the day is are funny.

Every Halo comes down to who can use shoot/grenade/melee better. Navigating all the tactical wrinkles above that core just adds more variety, options, and fun to the experience. Otherwise, we'd be playing the same fucking game we played in 2001, just on new maps.
Bubble shield? Regen? How the hell did these NOT give second lives? I'm convinced you didn't play Halo 3. Because if you did, you would experience shooting a guy with a random BR, about to kill him and then he drops a bubble shield or shield regen and killed you because of terrible equipment. It was a crutch for bad players to have an upper hand, plain and simple.

Armor abilities in Reach are just as bad. Armor lock is terrible because you can come close to finishing a guy and he enters invincible mode and can live while his teammates finish you off. It's completely broken in tight maps and in small skirmish gametypes. I don't have a problem with it in BTB like a lot of people do, but I can see why they hate it. The same goes for jetpacking, which breaks most maps. Invis completely breaks the sniper, allowing people to completely ruin games. Evade is even more broken allowing people to hop around large swaths of the map like damn frogs. The only armor abilities that aren't easily exploitable are sprint and hologram. Sprint is absolutely needed because of the molasses-paced speed of Reach. That's why Classic is the best playlist in Reach. No bullshit armor abilities, faster paced and a tighter feel. Nerf the AR and it'd be the perfect playlist. It's no coincidence the two worst games, multiplayer-wise, in the series tried to add all this extra bullshit into the formula.

claviertekky said:
Most people including myself dismiss Halo 2's campaign because we expected a large scale attack and Master Chief had to save Earth.

Instead, we were treated 1-2 levels of Earth that were nothing close to the (perhaps unrealistic) expectations , and then the rest of the game was on Halo because of slipspace.
I did too. I wanted to save the Earth, etc. But it was still a damn fine story, even if it wasn't what I expected. The separate campaign with the Arbiter really expanded upon the lore and gave us a character that wasn't Gordon Freeman with a cool voice, and that was what was needed.

claviertekky said:
Let's face it. It was rushed as the ideas from the E3 2003 demo were trashed, and Microsoft wanted the game out in 2004. Bungie knew at the time that this game would last for people who love multiplayer, so I feel it's obvious most of their efforts went there.
I don't think it's too much to ask that Bungie deliver a game three years after the original. Let's face it, they're not the most efficient studio when it comes to delivering quality games within a timely period. They're like the opposite of Valve. They work best under pressure. Their two best games were Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 2, and both were developed in about 9 months each.
 
Shocked at the Halo 2 hate.

Halo 2 is the best Xbox Live game to this date. It's multiplayer is surpassed by only CE and 3 and Reach aren't in the same multiplayer universe as Halo 2.
 
Steelyuhas said:
Shocked at the Halo 2 hate.

Halo 2 is the best Xbox Live game to this date. It's multiplayer is surpassed by only CE and 3 and Reach aren't in the same multiplayer universe as Halo 2.
I think people might bring up Spies vs. Mercs in that debate
 

clav

Member
Dax01 said:
Yeah, I know. Doesn't change the fact that the current ending is badass.
Yeah because Master Chief is the master of awesome one liners.

For everyone complaining why Halo 2's campaign (i.e. level design) was inferior, I have something to tell you.

Bungie was working on online co-op in the beta builds for Halo 2, but the limitations of the Xbox 1 kept that vision to be made true.

Why Bungie was aiming for this: Joe Staten explained that in the past, Myth 2's coolest feature was online co-op, so they wanted to do something that grand for the fans.

I suspect that's why the level design was so linear in that sense like here's the tank section or here's the banshee fly section. These sections would be handled better in an online sync scenario.

Hm. Maybe later I'll post in the Halo 4 section as I'm reading back what I wrote about that Making of Halo 2 event and how it may shed some light how we can view the next iteration in the series.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
claviertekky said:
Yeah because Master Chief is the master of awesome one liners.

For everyone complaining why Halo 2's campaign (i.e. level design) was inferior, I have something to tell you.

Bungie was working on online co-op in the beta builds for Halo 2, but the limitations of the Xbox 1 kept that vision to be made true.
Not quite, it was the rough development cycle that Halo 2 had. Specifically, tossing most of the campaign and building a new engine after 18 months of development. They couldn't quite land online co-op or saved films (which are joined at the hip) which is why those were cut at the last moment. The actual hardware was not the constraint.
claviertekky said:
My notes have it as it didn't work out on the current hardware, but that could also be the ultimate underlying reason as well.
Bungie has been clear about the cause. It was time and resources, not hardware.
 
H2 remake = do not want. The campaign was utter shite and disjointed thanks to having 2 protagonists and constantly switching between them, and splitting up a single campaign between them. And don't get me started on the boss battles... Johnson's magic beam rifle anyone?

Bungie even admitted to fucking the development up badly and that they were really unhappy with what they shipped. It shows.

Now what it did have is amazing multiplayer maps and what was at the time the easiest way of finding people to play with thanks to the then new idea of matchmaking.
 

thatbox

Banned
tea_and_crumpets said:
All the whiny bitching going on about the multiplayer is seriously annoying. You are getting the multiplayer, no it wont be exactly the same. But for $40 you get the complete campagin with Reach graphics and 7 of the original games maps for Reach Multiplayer (playable stand alone or integrated into Reach). Plus there's no reason they can't set up a playlist which has more like the gameplay of Halo CE as we have already seen.
If I wanted to play Reach multiplayer I'd being playing Reach multiplayer.
 

clav

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Not quite, it was the rough development cycle that Halo 2 had. Specifically, tossing most of the campaign and building a new engine after 18 months of development. They couldn't quite land online co-op or saved films (which are joined at the hip) which is why those were cut at the last moment. The actual hardware was not the constraint.
My notes have it as it didn't work out on the current hardware, but that could also be the ultimate underlying reason as well.

I don't think they were working on saved films at the time.

thatbox said:
If I wanted to play Reach multiplayer I'd being playing Reach multiplayer.

The Halo Reach Classic playlist is actually fun. I just wish more people were on it.
 
Halo 2 had the best campaign story (Arby and Truth were great characters until Halo 3 pissed all over their characterizations, especially Truth) and the worst campaign gameplay.

I think that this actually makes it the best candidate for true remake, meaning redesigning encounters and such, instead of a texture and model swap style update like Anniversary.

A remake of Halo 2 could retain the story while fixing gameplay and pacing issues- no Sniper Alley, removing the boss battles ( or at least showing the Chief blowing up the Scarab and making Regret killable in more ways than "punch him in the face"), fixing the pacing issues (more time on Earth, an extra level in the Keyship), make Gravemind actually look intimidating instead of a fleshflower and give better buildup to his entrance by spreading hints throughout Delta Halo and Regret instead of having him just appear Diabolus ex machina, and so on.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Thagomizer said:
Halo 2 had the best campaign story and the worst campaign gameplay.

I think that this actually makes it the best candidate for true remake, meaning redesigning encounters and such, instead of a texture and model swap style update like Anniversary.

A remake of Halo 2 could retain the story while fixing gameplay and pacing issues- no Sniper Alley, removing the boss battles ( or at least showing the Chief blowing up the Scarab and making Regret killable in more ways than "punch him in the face"), fixing the pacing issues (more time on Earth, an extra level in the Keyship), make Gravemind actually look intimidating instead of a fleshflower, and so on.
Aye, agree entirely. There are even some small changes to the weapons and gameplay that would yield huge dividends without even altering the encounters.

For instance, replace the Beam Rifle the sniper Jackals use with Reach's Focus Rifle, which was created in part so the AI snipers can't land instant headshots. That right there would fix some pretty big swaths of the campaign, such as sniper alley.
 
Thagomizer said:
Halo 2 had the best campaign story and the worst campaign gameplay.

I think that this actually makes it the best candidate for true remake, meaning redesigning encounters and such, instead of a texture and model swap style update like Anniversary.

A remake of Halo 2 could retain the story while fixing gameplay and pacing issues- no Sniper Alley, removing the boss battles ( or at least showing the Chief blowing up the Scarab and making Regret killable in more ways than "punch him in the face"), fixing the pacing issues (more time on Earth, an extra level in the Keyship), make Gravemind actually look intimidating instead of a fleshflower, and so on.

Very very good points and I agree 100%.

Although I'd also add they need to tone down dual-weilding.. or remove it altogether.

Worst game-play decision ever IMO.. I remember hearing about it in previews and groaned.. and my fears were 100% correct when I played the game.

Halo CE was the most elegantly controlled FPS on a console ever.. FPS games before it tried to replicate the overly-complex PC experience that didn't fit the dual analog controller and it's buttons well... only having 2 weapons.. dedicated grenade button.. only 2 types of grenades with a dedicated switching button. Those were some of the core aspects that made Halo's gameplay amazing.. and they threw it all out the window for Halo 2.. at the very least dual-weilding, extra power-ups, and extra grenade types should have never made it into the single player campaign.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Aye, agree entirely. There are even some small changes to the weapons and gameplay that would yield huge dividends without even altering the encounters.

For instance, replace the Beam Rifle the sniper Jackals use with Reach's Focus Rifle, which was created in part so the AI snipers can't land instant headshots. That right there would fix some pretty big swaths of the campaign, such as sniper alley.
as long as they keep the beam rifle for multiplayer. that focus rifle is useless
 

PooBone

Member
claviertekky said:
Most people including myself dismiss Halo 2's campaign because we expected a large scale attack and Master Chief had to save Earth.

Instead, we were treated 1-2 levels of Earth that were nothing close to the (perhaps unrealistic) expectations , and then the rest of the game was on Halo because of slipspace.
That's not even an issue. I'm glad I didn't have to stick around on boring Earth environments. The entire Delta Halo portion of the game was by far my favorite part.

I didn't like it because the levels were small-scale and cramped, you couldn't carry enough ammo for your UNSC weapons, and the AI was horrible. And Legendary was cheap.
 

clav

Member
nVidiot_Whore said:
Very very good points and I agree 100%.

Although I'd also add they need to tone down dual-weilding.. or remove it altogether.

Worst game-play decision ever IMO.. I remember hearing about it in previews and groaned.. and my fears were 100% correct when I played the game.

Halo CE was the most elegantly controlled FPS on a console ever.. FPS games before it tried to replicate the overly-complex PC experience that didn't fit the dual analog controller and it's buttons well... only having 2 weapons.. dedicated grenade button.. only 2 types of grenades with a dedicated switching button. Those were some of the core aspects that made Halo's gameplay amazing.. and they threw it all out the window for Halo 2.. at the very least dual-weilding, extra power-ups, and extra grenade types should have never made it into the single player campaign.
What?

I loved dual-wielding, and I loved gametypes when you started out with a plasma rifle.

You learned to count how many shots a person can take, so you can run up and do a melee or throw a grenade.

That was all lost in Halo 3 with the both melee death and in Reach, how melee only takes down all shield or death.
 
claviertekky said:
What?

I loved dual-wielding, and I loved gametypes when you started out with a plasma rifle.

You learned to count how many shots a person can take, so you can run up and do a melee or throw a grenade.

That was all lost in Halo 3 with the both melee death and in Reach, how melee only takes down all shield or death.

I'm talking about single player campaign, not multi-player. But it's just my opinion.. Halo CE's campaign was all about the core gameplay.. the encounters with enemies.. large scale battles.. the controls were focused and simple and allowed you to feel very in control. Halo 2 was full of gimmicks to me.. including what they did with controls and weapons.. "boss battles" (I hate bosses in games), etc.

I didn't care that much about the multi-player.. at the time I was into class-based multiplayer games like Wolfenstein and the like.. or I played on PC.
 

Hex

Banned
Kuroyume said:
x5xiz7.gif

Is this Alex Winter?
 

JdFoX187

Banned
thezerofire said:
as long as they keep the beam rifle for multiplayer. that focus rifle is useless
Focus rifle is still a beast if one knows how to use it right. Probably my favorite weapon and most satisfying to get a kill with. Keeping it as powerful as it was in the beta would definitely be game-breaking.
 
JdFoX187 said:
Focus rifle is still a beast if one knows how to use it right. Probably my favorite weapon and most satisfying to get a kill with. Keeping it as powerful as it was in the beta would definitely be game-breaking.
it's ridiculously easy to get into cover when you're getting hit with it. it's basically a "look at me I'm over here" gun
 

Blueblur1

Member
A properly remade Halo 2 campaign would be pretty awesome. With more fleshed out stages and cutscenes and better production values, it would kick all sorts of ass, IMO. It would have to be an actual remake though. But it'll never happen. *shrug*
 

Sibylus

Banned
The Focus Rifle was a great solution to the "sniper alley" problem in singleplayer. It's almost unbelievable that Bungie repeated the same mistake with Halo 3 (though it wasn't as grievous). Sierra 117 was a fine level, especially the large encounter at the dam, but that sniper gauntlet definitely got on my nerves something awful.
 
Yes!!! Damnation is back! i loved that map so much in CE...

Did anyone notice what i noticed? The campaign has Real Time shadows... bout time, halo :p
 

mhi

Member
I think Halo 2 Multiplayer was the most engaging out of the whole series. The player had the most control of his life here part in thanks to the outstanding map design.

Anyways, I guess this explains why Reach+ mappacks have been lacking in remakes save for those Forged maps.

Can't wait for this game.
 
Botolf said:
The Focus Rifle was a great solution to the "sniper alley" problem in singleplayer. It's almost unbelievable that Bungie repeated the same mistake with Halo 3 (though it wasn't as grievous). Sierra 117 was a fine level, especially the large encounter at the dam, but that sniper gauntlet definitely got on my nerves something awful.

I had such high hopes for Halo 3 being like Halo : CE until I reached that part of the level.

It's still blew Halo 2's campaign out of the water for me gameplay wise.. but really.. what the hell is supposed to be fun about getting insta-sniped quite randomly anywhere in any game?

I can get to that part of the level with 0 deaths on Legendary and it's awesome fun.. then it's basically a dice-roll even to peak your head out on that part of the map.
 

clav

Member
With all the Halo 2 mp nostalgia, does anyone here own Halo 2 Vista?

The online component is still up as opposed to the Xbox version, correct?
 

Zerokku

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
claviertekky said:
With all the Halo 2 mp nostalgia, does anyone here own Halo 2 Vista?

The online component is still up as opposed to the Xbox version, correct?

Correct. I own it. Wouldn't mind going a couple rounds with some Gaffers and maybe get some of those multiplayer achievements.
 
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