FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Eject out of exploding Banshee then SMASH onto enemy player.
Does Halo need a BR? No? Well, we're getting it anyway.
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Halo |OT 20| It really does feel like Halo
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
Does Halo need a BR? No? Well, we're getting it anyway.
Sprint by necessity makes the base movespeed slow by comparison, which is an impactful note to gameplay regardless of where the baseline is.
edit: I still haven't tried Murder Miners, though. I'll have to get on that.
ADS doesn't have to mean limiting your movement, but it does in almost every game that has a system referred to as "ADS," so this might just be an issue of our linguistics.
Sprint is just as obnoxious there as anywhere else. What good does it ever do besides fixing the issue of traversing maps that were deliberately made too large so that sprint would have a purpose? Really, what's the point? If it feels necessary, that's an issue that can usually be fixed via map design.
It's not like Valhalla needed Ragnarok's vehicle space.
Generally, I find that "X sucks but it's fine for BTB" comments aren't particularly convincing. People said the same about armour lock in Reach because of how some vehicles were, but AL breaks what aspects of the vehicle combat actually work (i.e. ghost gameplay), and a better solution would be to not design things around obvious problem vehicles (i.e. the banshee on some maps) or create quirky designs that flow better with other AAs that are also protective (i.e. jetpack on maps that are clearly intended for everyone to be using it).
Best course of action for Halo, IMO, and this is the last I'll say on the sprint matter:
No sprint, increased based movement speed, focus on those special jumps they seem to like so much in H2A and add in default thrusters BUT in first person and allow the ability to shoot/throw grenades while your thrusting.
IMO, it's a beautiful thing that could make Halo feel truly fresh... a FRESH Halo.
Don't disappoint me 343.
No sprint, increased based movement speed, focus on those special jumps they seem to like so much in H2A and add in default thrusters BUT in first person and allow the ability to shoot/throw grenades while your thrusting.
IMO, it's a beautiful thing that could make Halo feel truly fresh... a FRESH Halo.
Don't disappoint me 343.
Onikaan
Member
Serious or not? Hard to tell in here sometimes
I can't stand Destiny's Pvp. But I won't go into everything. My problem with things like Titan Smash and Nova Nuke is that I feel Bungie gave them too much power. The range is disgusting, and when they are activated the player casting them is almost completely invulnerable. There should be a risk reward when using them so people get smart when they play Pvp. Wait for a good advantage that will turn the tide of a battle instead of just smashing/bombing every damn lonely player you ever see because you know it's going to be a free kill. At least with Golden Gun you need to actually AIM.
Anyway, won't get too into it.
I'd be really upset if things like that found their way into Halo.
Only problem is that CoD beat Halo to default thrusters. So basically it's automatically an awful feature which should never come to Halo.
Mostly serious...Serious or not? Hard to tell in here sometimes
I can't stand Destiny's Pvp. But I won't go into everything. My problem with things like Titan Smash and Nova Nuke is that I feel Bungie gave them too much power. The range is disgusting, and when they are activated the player casting them is almost completely invulnerable. There should be a risk reward when using them so people get smart when they play Pvp. Wait for a good advantage that will turn the tide of a battle instead of just smashing/bombing every damn lonely player you ever see because you know it's going to be a free kill. At least with Golden Gun you need to actually AIM.
Anyway, won't get too into it.
I'd be really upset if things like that found their way into Halo.
Seriously though, I can't think of many if any of the design decision in Destiny would fit with Halo.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Ruined FOREVER!
Syphon Filter
Member
With juices i bet right?
Ground pound should IMO leave the player using it vulnerable and immobile for a second or two. It should do normal melee damage in a small AoE. That way it would be used as a support ability, one player ground pounds in the middle of enemies, another player cleans unshielded players.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I said as a "requirement," which is why I gave the example of Murder Miners. But yeah, 2v2/4v4 doesn't need sprint for smaller arena maps.
Sprint wasn't in Halo CE-3, but traversing some of those maps were a pain, especially when you have teammates using all vehicles as Mongooses. It was a problem in CE, was a problem in H2 and was especially a problem in H3. Sprint helps with that, significantly. Also, BTB should lend itself to more open, grand scale battles so sprint wouldn't really hurt gameplay there because they wouldn't be designing many tight corridors. In fact, Max said on that IGN stream how one of his regrets was making the bases in Waterworks so small. So even in places where you think worked fine before (I never had a problem with Waterworks' base design), those in charge of Halo would have liked to open these spaces more.
That's how I see it.
NobleGundam
Banned
Its more like a mini jet pack going upwards.
Halo's TP is obviously different.
CoDs implementation is actually really cool. It's definitely more than a double jump.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Diablohead
Member
Reach beta pro pipe was amazing to use and a sort of power weapon, maybe it had too much ammo but it was beautiful and worked.
Then bungie changed it to shoot sponges and shrank it's effective range and ruined it.
In reach I would run around with the pistol more often then not, felt good and fun.
Halo 3 I used to try the same thing but that gun needs way too many tags to kill someone, it was better then halo 2's but still weak.
Then bungie changed it to shoot sponges and shrank it's effective range and ruined it.
In reach I would run around with the pistol more often then not, felt good and fun.
Halo 3 I used to try the same thing but that gun needs way too many tags to kill someone, it was better then halo 2's but still weak.
I still find it baffling that Halo 4 got rid of the pro pipe.
Then again, it's Halo 4.
It felt okay. In some ways I think bloom had a worse impact on how the pistol felt than other weapons. After acclimating, I usually feel okay with DMR and nerfle. Pistol, no.
When you attempt to cater to all, you end up catering to none.
You cater to one, if your product is good enough, it's pull will be across segments
Did Halo become a huge hit by making you feel special and holding your hand? Did it rise up to 10 million sold an iteration by making the casuals happy? No.
What 343 is trying to do is solve the problem of outlier fans who don't enjoy the experience and attempt to convert them into fans by making a more approachable product.
Am I averse to change? No. But I am averse to destroying every part of a formula which has won over 10 million fans to appease the few that don't like it. When you toss vast levels of depth, complexity and in turn enjoyability to help make such a little audience happy... You risk eroding your hardcore fan base which is really free money.
Halo objective games haven't been anywhere near as good since Halo 2. Still the best implementation of CTF in a game but nope! Let's mutilate it because a grandma who got swept up in the hype didn't understand the concept of contesting!
Oh poor grandma bought halo 3 and didn't know why or where the other team got rockets from! Let's just make it all random!
Aw poor grandma goes -20 every game and has a nasty K
Halo games should be made for halo fans... It's been 7 years since the last halo game... It would be nice to play another again
Agreed.
Still sucks that they bring Silenced SMGs, ARs and stuff into Halo 2A but not the propipe
They didn't bring back the Brute Plasma Rifle either, man. :<
I'm sure they've upgraded a bunch of things*, but the screenshots they did release still had similar bloom effects, light shafts ("god rays"), and haze. The industrial map looks very much rooted in Halo4's visual results IMHO (including shader aliasing on various edges). The Midship would be harder to compare as Halo 4 was predominantly Human and Forerunner + Requiem.
Of course, WIP etc etc., but for the most part, they've stuck with a baked lighting/shadowing approach on the two revealed maps there, so I'm wary of how much can change unless these were done a long long long time ago and they just have to look good enough for public testing. It'll be interesting to see once the Beta arrives. Even the environment shots of the H2A MP maps were slightly misleading compared to the videos in terms of haze/visibility.
* the noise detail on all the surfaces is new...
A couple shots of the industrial map have a dust filter on the camera too (faint rainbow circles).
Truth is... the quality of the game is largely going to be centered around its competitive viability. It's an FPS game. It's not competing against Angry Birds or Simpsons: Tapped out. It's competing for the dollars of the hardcore gamer.
Lets look at sprint. Sprint damages CQC (the absolute most important part of Halo combat), it damages map control (the most important part of an arena FPS) and it damages predictability (the most important part of a quality game).
Add in AA or spartan "abilities" and what happens? You now have a game where you optimally play from range, where your ability to wield a gun up close isn't the major part of the equation and your positioning relative to your opponents is rather meaningless.
What does this effectively do? Kills the competitive viability of the game. If i walk into a room in CS or in Halo 2 with an SMG and see an enemy with his back turned to me, let's just pretend assassinations didn't exist for this example)... i could start opening up on him and KNOW I will win. I know the odds of me surviving and succeeding in that engagement are so high that I can do that. Throw in sprint and an AA, that predictability goes out the window. He could quickly sprint away, drop a bubble shield or whatever or healing thing and he could turn the encounter around from a guaranteed loss to a possible win. What the hell is the fun in that? His spatial awareness in this case should have been his downfall.
Now because of that, approaching someone is now risky... he can sprint... i can't chase in a tight map because that opens me up. I dont know if he has powerups. I dont know what perks he has. Even if they bound abilities to pieces of armor to illustrate the dangers, it still has no place in the game.
The more shit you add the less appealing it is to watch, too. You simply can't properly convey that information effectively to the opponent, let alone an audience
What 343 should do is nail the basics and do a total revamp of the AA and weapons sandbox.
So what about AA? What should be done with them? Make them skulls on maps, of course! you pick it up and you get an extraordinary ability with the sacrifice to your ability to fire a weapon... but this way... you defeat a skull carrier and you can then grab it and use the ability as you please. It then rolls over into a power weapon/map control thing but fixes some of the downsides to the old powerups and AA.
Just having the abilities on top of the sandbox screws with balance in the end because they aren't inherently balanced to begin with and there's really no effective way to do it. Just ends up feeling like a bastardized class based shooter in the end.
And just for the hell of it: Copying things like call of duty makes no sense. Call of duty fans wouldn't want to buy a codified Halo. They already buy COD! If Halo fans wanted call of duty, they would buy that instead.
Honestly like the phone, but switching to that from an iPhone after almost 5 years of having one is hella jarring. Still getting used to it.
Cortana is pretty cool though.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Damn, Mix just giving up on life
Its not that bad mate, Bayonetta 2 just came out and its great
Its not that bad mate, Bayonetta 2 just came out and its great
When you attempt to cater to all, you end up catering to none.
You cater to one, if your product is good enough, it's pull will be across segments
Did Halo become a huge hit by making you feel special and holding your hand? Did it rise up to 10 million sold an iteration by making the casuals happy? No.
What 343 is trying to do is solve the problem of outlier fans who don't enjoy the experience and attempt to convert them into fans by making a more approachable product.
Am I averse to change? No. But I am averse to destroying every part of a formula which has won over 10 million fans to appease the few that don't like it. When you toss vast levels of depth, complexity and in turn enjoyability to help make such a little audience happy... You risk eroding your hardcore fan base which is really free money.
Halo objective games haven't been anywhere near as good since Halo 2. Still the best implementation of CTF in a game but nope! Let's mutilate it because a grandma who got swept up in the hype didn't understand the concept of contesting!
Oh poor grandma bought halo 3 and didn't know why or where the other team got rockets from! Let's just make it all random!
Aw poor grandma goes -20 every game and has a nasty K
Halo games should be made for halo fans... It's been 7 years since the last halo game... It would be nice to play another again
Whole hardheartedly agree.
Chasing after another audience has been a problem for a lot of games, which has included the last couple of Halo's. Some of these changes are unfortunately always going to be pushed due to the framework of capitalism, and the way people in the industry move across companies when they simply want a new job/to be paid more, and have to come up with new ideas for the sake of it, to prove their "worth". However fundamentally, pandering to people who will never play your product for more than a month whilst ensuring those who would are turned off, is detrimental to the long term success of your game and eventually franchise (Starting with the Halo 4 Xbox live figures).
343 to there credit have made some operational changes to learn from 4, but its clear there are still design choices in Halo 2A which show they have not fully got where they need to be yet, not enough to save Halo 5.
Halo 1 & 2 are incredible games, which FPS mechanics have never been reached or replaced, they are the pinnacle of the series. Every subsequent game has lost more and more till we get to Halo 4, a shell of its former self.
I hope 343 realises and comes to appreciate the strength of building a product which asks gamers to rise to it, rather than the game pandering to the audience. Make a Halo game that demands respects from its players to reach its heights, to understand the way it operates. Halo is a brand, it represents a specific type of shooter. Don't dilute it by making it mix and match of elements from other franchises, watering it down to make "everyone" like it, because ultimately no one will.
It was a bit of a downgrade, My bill went down like 150 bucks a month, but I got the Nokia Lumia 635. Not the best, but I'll upgrade when I get a little disposable income.
Noooooooooooooooo don't do it.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Thanks to the fast-killing, skill-based weapon that is the CE Pistol and thanks to health packs, the meta game wasn't about running away from fights. Halo 2 changed that with longer kill times meaning people can get shot once, then run away. Halo 2 changed that with significantly more aim assist because once your down two shots, your life is gone because there's no way they'll miss enough shots for you to catch up, regardless of strafing. Halo 2 changed that because now you could run away and fully charge without a health pack.
IMO, there have been changes that has affected core Halo gameplay more than sprint, like the weapon sandbox. People praise Halo 2 and Halo 3 as if they are the ideal models for future Halo games, but sprint in CE would've been far less offensive than what we experienced with CE's transition to Halo 2&3. And I'm interested to see what other CE fans think about that because we saw how the game changed to a reliance on the teamshot. For those who don't know, "teamshot" is setting up in positions to allow 2 players to shoot the same targets to be most effective as a team, whereas in CE you could run into a base with just your Pistol/AR and style on multiple people.
Question: Would a sprint that doesn't feel clunky and gives a slight boost in speed have been more harmful to CE's gameplay than everything we experienced with Halo 2 onward?
lmfao
Was it a faster rate of fire or no difference, I can't remember.
BeamImpact
Member
No, but "better than Halo 4" seems like a pretty low standard for Halo 1. ;P
I'd have to try it to be sure, but I think I might actually prefer Halo's 2 or 3 to CE+sprint. You note that you like how Halo 1's gameplay doesn't encourage a running away metagame; I suppose, but sprint is exactly the sort of mechanic that would push the gameplay more in that direction. More than anything, it seems like it would be very dissonant with the general flow of gameplay; Halo 1 already has a nice rhythm without sprint.
Halo wasn't a good competitive game tho
Halo 2 feels fairly close to CE, just with more weight... a tad more speed and a diversified weapon sandbox (nothing added messed with the formula... except the sentinel beam... no weapon has ever been that useless) the game generally feels largely the same. Same can't be said if sprint was added to CE.
Halo 2 ended up being far better than CE in MP in basically every facet so w/e
Halo: CE would have been fine with the addition of sprint.
In Halo:CE You could be a one many army and take on two three and even four guys.
Halo 2 was an entirely different game.
Halo 3 was I would call a sharpening of Halo 2 with come design calls back to Halo: CE.
I think you and I agree on a lot of things FUNKNOWN.
Yup, faster fire rate, but that basically means faster overheating too. Not sure if the damage per shot is different vs regular PR in-game.
The important thing is that the result of dual-wielding the brute PR with a standard PR is the closest thing the series has ever had to a justification for dual-wielding.
SMG + Magnum is the most OP combo in the game, FYI
Diablohead
Member
red plasma rifle is love.
If I remember right one of the H2 maps had one in a wreckage area, you could do some serious damage with it.
If I remember right one of the H2 maps had one in a wreckage area, you could do some serious damage with it.
Like I said, it's pretty good. I was surprised at how many apps came preinstalled. Camera is pretty great.
I believe Turf featured the Brute Plasma Rifle. It was pretty godly paired with an SMG.
What does usefulness have to do with what I said?
Because it justifies the existence of dual wielding since it creates a mass grave the second you pick it up?
Oh.
My qualm with dual wielding isn't that it can't be useful.
My comment about dual red+blue plasma rifles was just me saying it looks cool.
Shootin' Rainbows FTW!
