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[Masterz117]

What I don't get is why 343 is so insistent on implementing stupid features that no one wants into MP. They saw with Reach and especially Halo 4 that people do not like sprint or AA's or loadouts. Populations went down the drain, and it seems like the whole community is begging for the newer Halo's to be more traditional. It'd be one thing if we were just a loud minority and Halo 4 had a million players daily, but that's not the case at all. Is there somehow more money to be made from making the game shallow? Where the hell did they get that from?

 

[The Flash]

Bought myself an Xbox One today and confirmed my preorder for Halo MCC. I can't fucking wait.

Rather impressed with the Onesie as well actually, bit of a beast but feels quality and sturdy (reminds me a bit of the OG Xbox) and the pad is a joy to use.

One of us! One of us! One of us!

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

Aren't you actually asking him to get his head out of 343's ass and put it up yours?

my ass is full of salt, no room for his head.

 

[Orochinagis]

Everyone makes mistakes.
Don't make the mistake of preordering the next game.

Most people preorder and dont know a damm about the game.

 

[Poodlestrike]

my ass is full of salt, no room for his head.

That sounds uncomfortable.

Explains a lot, actually.

 

[Welfare]

Bought myself an Xbox One today and confirmed my preorder for Halo MCC. I can't fucking wait.

Rather impressed with the Onesie as well actually, bit of a beast but feels quality and sturdy (reminds me a bit of the OG Xbox) and the pad is a joy to use.

Nice! Make sure to message Mix your GT so you can play with fellow Gaffers.

my ass is full of salt, no room for his head.

:lol

 

[danwarb]

I don't know what part of their renderer adds the haze, but not having that would go a long way (also proper HDR lighting ).

I think this is why Halo 3 is so much easier to look at for me, over Halo 4. Absence of the unnatural colour cast and the nicer HDR in 3 makes it more consistent and solid. 3 works for machinima loads better than 4.

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

That sounds uncomfortable.

Explains a lot, actually.

2 shitty halo games and devs that dont listen and lie to their fans would do that.

 

[DopeyFish]

What I don't get is why 343 is so insistent on implementing stupid features that no one wants into MP. They saw with Reach and especially Halo 4 that people do not like sprint or AA's or loadouts. Populations went down the drain, and it seems like the whole community is begging for the newer Halo's to be more traditional. It'd be one thing if we were just a loud minority and Halo 4 had a million players daily, but that's not the case at all. Is there somehow more money to be made from making the game shallow? Where the hell did they get that from?

Halo fans want x
CoD fans want y

CoD sells more so y>x

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Ahh, seeing StK allows me to stealthbrag a bit. Booshka, step aside for a moment as I take the spotlight:

<--Only pic I know for sure who the OGRES are lol

I should've saved the names of the players in the pictures. Unfortunately, I only saved them by clan tags, but here are just a few StK ones I saved with ingame names that may be familiar.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

What I don't get is why 343 is so insistent on implementing stupid features that no one wants into MP. They saw with Reach and especially Halo 4 that people do not like sprint or AA's or loadouts. Populations went down the drain, and it seems like the whole community is begging for the newer Halo's to be more traditional. It'd be one thing if we were just a loud minority and Halo 4 had a million players daily, but that's not the case at all. Is there somehow more money to be made from making the game shallow? Where the hell did they get that from?

i get that its hard for devs to keep true to the franchise and introduced new features but i feel reach/4 were just too different. it happens in all franchises, gears 1 was good but epic fucked up the sequel by making it slower and other shit features but they sorted the mess out with gears 3 and perfected the formula all while adding new stuff.

its important to keep the essence of the franchise and only include features that complement the traditional setup, not change it.

The thing about ODST is that it’s a mood piece, and probably works better in longform. Simulating just a smaller piece of the experience makes it feel more like a novelty, and will probably distract from the pacing of the space opera vibe of the main games.

The ODST detective noir setting is neat, and should be exploited to tell smaller scale stories within the Halo universe. It also gives a good case that they can go beyond the convention of traditional Halo with spin-offs, without totally disserting the core principles.

yeah it would have to be handled expertly but from watching the trailer the mood of the new halo seems to be pretty grim. hopefully i get that halo 1 feeling of discovery again, i want to go to different planets and stuff, play different characters and have their story intwine

 

[Orochinagis]

Halo fans want x
CoD fans want y

CoD sells more so y>x

Feels weird how COD took some Halo ideas and fits perfectly in their gameplay

 

[jem0208]

You are dense, there have been OBJECTIVE posts about why sprint = bad map design for halo. we get that you like Halo 4 and all that shit but get your head out of 343's ass and actually think for yourself.

God damn, calm down.


Could it be possible that I haven't ever actually seen these posts, hence why I am asking why sprint = bad maps?

Point me in their direction and I'll give them a read. Posting shit like this adds nothing to the discussion and just makes you look like a giant dick.

 

[Welfare]

Halo fans want x
CoD fans want y

CoD sells more so y>x

But Halo has the possibility to outsell CoD on the One this year!

 

[-Ryn]

Where is all this salt coming from? We are getting we've always wanted. A full revival of the original Halos. All of them. We haven't even seen gameplay for Halo 5. So what's the deal?

--

Sprint toggle. I don't see the problem here.
There have been good arguments on both sides of the debate and ultimately, I think we can have both. Classic arena maps with no sprint and larger maps with sprint in mind.

my ass is full of salt, no room for his head.

I once tried eating a cup of pretzel salt.

 

[Killmanjaro81]

Why are people so negative about grenade and weapon hitmarkers, is it because they are a part of more modern shooters such as cod and battlefield? To me, they help the player a little bit, making them feel that they can go in for the kill. Do people just feel that they dont need the help?

 

[Onikaan]

You are dense, there have been OBJECTIVE posts about why sprint = bad map design for halo. we get that you like Halo 4 and all that shit but get your head out of 343's ass and actually think for yourself.

Talking to people like this really makes me value your opinion.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Who's to say sprint was a main reason the population died so fast with Halo 4 and not the 2 years of experiencing loadouts and superfluous gameplay elements with Reach? Maybe people stopped playing Halo 4 because of flinch and no descope over sprint. Maybe it was the perks that did people in, maybe it was a million other things aside from sprint that made Reach and Halo 4 "offensive."

Sprint in Halo is not the end of the world, nor does it foster substantially larger maps as a requirement. Again, Halo 5 Midship isn't gigantic, so take that as you will.

//==========

What Halo needs to do to feel fresh for a wider audience is expand its BTB and go all out with it. Make BTB 10v10 on large, open maps and bring back Firefight to attract the audience who likes PvE more and incorporate Invasion into it, a la Firefight Versus.

This is how you attract a wider audience without compromising the core 2v2/4v4 gameplay on small, arena maps that Halo fans have been craving for so many years.

 

[DopeyFish]

But Halo has the possibility to outsell CoD on the One this year!

CoD fad is coming to an end. It never was a great game. It just had the proper market conditions and awareness that rocketed the franchise through the roof.

This is why copying it was such a dumb idea. You copy those who have earned their fame with quality work, not quality timing.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

Where is all this salt coming from? Sprint toggle. I don't see the problem here.
There have been good arguments on both sides of the debate and ultimately, I think we can have both. Classic arena maps with no sprint and larger maps with sprint in mind.

a toggle only works for cosmetic features but i too feel the only way sprint can be incorporated effectively is if the arena maps are still made to the size of halo 2 which would mean sprint is useless but on larger btb maps sprint shines.

if 343 design the arena maps with sprint in mind and keep the same slow base speed then halo 5 will be a shit fest

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

God damn, calm down.


Could it be possible that I haven't ever actually seen these posts, hence why I am asking why sprint = bad maps?

Point me in their direction and I'll give them a read. Posting shit like this adds nothing to the discussion and just makes you look like a giant dick.

this will start you off.


and this is objectively why halo 4 is bad, written by our own fyrewulf http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=709697=

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I don't know what part of their renderer adds the haze, but not having that would go a long way (also proper HDR lighting ).

For what it's worth, Halo 5 is a completely different engine, so perhaps we won't see these issues going froward. Also, it's very possible 343 are designing the Halo 5 maps as opposed to CA - Midship seems to have a very 343 art style to it. I imagine both CA and 343 are aware of what fans like and want visually. While I am definitely one to nitpick about this, I would say the Lockdown and Bloodline maps visuals had more than just the ultra picky talking about it. Arguably, Halo's visuals and atmosphere are just as iconic as its core gameplay- while gameplay is what matters the most, there is no arguing that nailing the visuals really does have a positive effect.

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

I once tried eating a cup of pretzel salt.

its so coarse.

 

[jem0208]

Why are people so negative about grenade and weapon hitmarkers, is it because they are a part of more modern shooters such as cod and battlefield? To me, they help the player a little bit, making them feel that they can go in for the kill. Do people just feel that they dont need the help?

I don't think anyone has a problem with normal hit markers (if they do then yes, it's because CoD has them). However there are legitimate concerns with grenade hit markers. They can be used to figure out enemy positions without any risk and means grenade spamming might be more effective.

How big of an issue this actually will be is yet to be seen.

 

[TheOddOne]

Food for thought: the E3 Halo 5 trailer shows a lot, a new map, Spartan Abilities, and even sprint. Nobody should be shocked that sprint might be there, really.

What we should be concerned about is how sprint and Spartan Abilities will work together. Holy possible exploits, Batman.

 

[-Ryn]

Why are people so negative about grenade and weapon hitmarkers, is it because they are a part of more modern shooters such as cod and battlefield? To me, they help the player a little bit, making them feel that they can go in for the kill. Do people just feel that they dont need the help?

The problem (in my opinion at least) is there are more intuitive ways of showing that you scored a hit such as shield flare. Halo: Reach had incredible damage feedback. I also just don't think it "feels" right. Kinda takes away some of the thrill or something.

Talking to people like this really makes me value your opinion.

It's how he shows affection.

Who's to say sprint was a main reason the population died so fast with Halo 4 and not the 2 years of experiencing loadouts and superfluous gameplay elements with Reach? Maybe people stopped playing Halo 4 because of flinch and no descope over sprint. Maybe it was the perks that did people in, maybe it was a million other things aside from sprint that made Reach and Halo 4 "offensive."

Sprint in Halo is not the end of the world, nor does it foster substantially larger maps as a requirement. Again, Halo 5 Midship isn't gigantic, so take that as you will.

//==========

What Halo needs to do to feel fresh for a wider audience is expand its BTB and go all out with it. Make BTB 10v10 on large, open maps and bring back Firefight to attract the audience who likes PvE more and incorporate Invasion into it, a la Firefight Versus.

This is how you attract a wider audience without compromising the core 2v2/4v4 gameplay on small, arena maps that Halo fans have been craving for so many years.

This guy... he knows.

 

[Madness]

Biggest problems of Halo 4 looking back for me, loadouts, global ordnance/personal ordnance, sprint, flinch, plus all the small things we don't remember (instant respawn, no working file share at launch, no x on death, no non-Infinity playlists for a while).

I think just the fact they let people customize everything about their weapons lead to such unbalanced gameplay. People with ammo perk had 6 incineration cannon shots, people with stealth perk and camo would get sniper, die, and then become almost silent and invisible on maps, people had anti-vehicle loadouts (plasma pistol, plasma grenades). They could die by a warthog gunner, instant respawn just 20 feet down the map with their plasma pistol and plasma grenades, take out warthog etc.

Personal ordnance lead to entire matches playing like action sack. 3-4 players would have sniper weapons in play at all times, rockets, splasers, incineration cannons, binary rifles. Global ordnance was so poorly implemented, you didn't even know what was where half the time. I distinctly remember losing a match because blue base on Exile got a fuel rod gun right near their base, took out our driving warthog, whereas our side spawned a needler.

Sprint negatively impacts Halo gameplay. We've had these posts before, dozens of them. They impact maps, they impact gunplay, they impact map control, spawns, promote cat and mouse gameplay, maps were ridiculously large because they had to account for sprint. I'm sure you noticed it. Became just like CoD, instant respawn, sprint, die, change loadout, repeat.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Talking to people like this really makes me value your opinion.

Indeed. I'm always amused when people act surprised when posts like this (or, even better, talking like this in real life) don't convince people to agree with them. Is it any wonder the devs have trouble listening to their fanbases?

 

[NobleGundam]

Why are people so negative about grenade and weapon hitmarkers, is it because they are a part of more modern shooters such as cod and battlefield? To me, they help the player a little bit, making them feel that they can go in for the kill. Do people just feel that they dont need the help?

I think they're a great way to improve awareness for all players but mainly new ones to adapt a lot quicker. But what they should do imo is make them to be toggled.
I don't mind grenade indicators, but those large red arrows to tell me which direction the shots are originating are kinda annoying and sorta defeats the purpose of strategy in being tactical but at the same time can speed the flow of things.

Hitmarkers I have a mixed feeling for..

 

[jelly]

Why are people so negative about grenade and weapon hitmarkers, is it because they are a part of more modern shooters such as cod and battlefield? To me, they help the player a little bit, making them feel that they can go in for the kill. Do people just feel that they dont need the help?

I've just released I didn't know what hitmarkers were, so watched a YouTube video of COD/Halo 4 comparison. Now I know. Think I'm too far away from my TV to even notice those things or I did and thought no more than a reticule thingy that means nothing.

 

[Orochinagis]

The problem (in my opinion at least) is there are more intuitive ways of showing that you scored a hit such as shield flare. Halo: Reach had incredible damage feedback. I also just don't think it "feels" right. Kinda takes away some of the thrill or something.

Loved Reach for the enemy shield indicator and shield regen lights, thats all the info you need to know in Halo.

I understand you need those indicators in non shielded enemies like the other fps games but Halo have that unique visual feedback of the enviroment around you, simple and efective.

 

[NobleGundam]

Loved Reach for the enemy shield indicator and shield regen lights, thats all the info you need to know in Halo.

I understand you need those indicators in non shielded enemies like the other fps games but Halo have that unique visual feedback of the enviroment around you, simple and efective.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[IHaveIce]

Awesome!

edit: Based on that....

1st StK
2-4 The Agency, VwS, Optic
5-8 BTH, TCM, Str8, Purple Rain

Why do you think will Str8 place so low?

 

[Poodlestrike]

Loved Reach for the enemy shield indicator and shield regen lights, thats all the info you need to know in Halo.

I understand you need those indicators in non shielded enemies like the other fps games but Halo have that unique visual feedback of the enviroment around you, simple and efective.

Yup. I'm fine with including hit markers for campaign, and they don't bother me that much in multiplayer, but the focus should be on more organic indicators.

 

[VinFTW]

My last straw for Halo 5's multiplayer (I'll still buy it for the campaign/coop) will occur when they keep all these things in the full game, despite all the complaining and feedback we'll give them during the Beta.

They can put it in the Beta all they want, but people will bitch, complain and SCREAM as loud as we can until they are taken out.

The true test will be if they actually listen during the Beta.

Spoiler

Or they can save their selves the time AND the incredibly bad-press they'll receive when all the hardcore Halo fans make a fuss all over the internet [leading to news outlets reporting on the fuss] and just not include it all to begin with.

My thoughts:
-
Hitmarkers are okay for guns, not for grenades. IMO, shield flare made Halo 2 so great, shield flare are HALO'S HITMARKERS. We don't need CoD mechanics.

-Sprint breaks the feel of Halo, it MIGHT be able to work, depending on how well the map design works out. Sprint SHOULDN'T be in, but it MAY, MAY, MAY work (big maybe).

-Indicators take out another great thing that made Halo so unique. You don't need a giant grenade sign (some of these show up even when they won't do damage to you, like wtf...) when a frag grenade pings on the ground and lights it up. You don't need a giant grenade sign when a plasma grenade hisses in your ears.

-Lastly, kill cams would work if they were off by default on death screen and you could press a button if you wanted to to see it. In Halo, teamwork should be prioritized, then if you really, really are curious about how you died, it's only a button press away.

Also: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QYQb_iGiWrOUyCe6L9FsH5Xkbumtzm5lhmIzS43RTH8/mobilebasic?pli=1

I will spam this daily to Mr Quinn and anybody else.


Edit:
https://twitter.com/quinndelhoyo/status/526089692488679424

Hi Quinn! Pls listen

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

what the hell is flinch? also descope really needs to be in halo 5, the lack of it made dmr too effective, also wouldnt hurt if the range was reduced on that thing

 

[Welfare]

what the hell is flinch? also descope really needs to be in halo 5, the lack of it made dmr too effective, also wouldnt hurt if the range was reduced on that thing

When you are zoomed in with a scoped weapon and instead of being taken out of zoom when shot at, you jitter all around while still in zoom.

 

[Poker Face]

Food for thought: the E3 Halo 5 trailer shows a lot, a new map, Spartan Abilities, and even sprint. Nobody should be shocked that sprint might be there, really.

What we should be concerned about is how sprint and Spartan Abilities will work together. Holy possible exploits, Batman.

To be fair you never see them sprint when they're actually in the map, only at the start before getting launched in. I would be very surprised if 343 took a bold stance and said "no sprint, fast base movement speed instead" , but there was probably no debate whatsoever since it's the genre standard at this point.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

When you are zoomed in with a scoped weapon and instead of being taken out of zoom when shot at, you jitter all around while still in zoom.

ah ok thanks. halo 4 is just a blur to me i hardly remember anything about it, the multiplayer and the campaign

 

[JDHarbs]

Hit markers were never a huge problem to me. Ideally I would leave them out, but if they're kept in for Halo 5 then I wouldn't really care much. It still retains the risk/reward factor. If you're right then you've spotted the enemy and dealt a little damage, but if you're wrong then you've just cost yourself a grenade.

The thing I want most for Halo going forward is a way of communicating with my team without a mic since hardly anyone uses one anymore.

 

[TheOddOne]

To be fair you never see them sprint when they're actually in the map, only at the start before getting launched in. I would be very surprised if 343 took a bold stance and said "no sprint, fast base movement speed instead" , but there was probably no debate whatsoever since it's the genre standard at this point.

That is true. We'll see.

 

[Onikaan]

When you are zoomed in with a scoped weapon and instead of being taken out of zoom when shot at, you jitter all around while still in zoom.

Hate it. Crap's in Destiny too.

 

[Masterz117]

CoD fad is coming to an end. It never was a great game. It just had the proper market conditions and awareness that rocketed the franchise through the roof.

This is why copying it was such a dumb idea. You copy those who have earned their fame with quality work, not quality timing.

Smartest thing I've read all day.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The Halo 5 beta/pro demostration won't have sprint, to build early support in the fanbase. "They're listening guyz, halo is saved, #weback"

and thats when the Game Informer reveal drops in April. Sprint, Loado-uh, "Weapon Sets"("everybody has the choice of BR/DMR/Carbine?AR so its balanced right"), Armor Abilities, Kill streaks, death streaks, bloom on pistol, Halo 3 BR is back, vehicle health system returns, no flag-dropping, random power weapon spawns, random power-up spawns, etc

The great Civil War of HaloGAF begins again, until Frankie stops by and tells everyone not to worry, all will be explained, storm before the calm.

Halo 5 is released, IGN 10/10, HaloGAF doesn't know if it feels like Halo, population dies off in 6 months, RIP

Halo 6 announced at E3, "we learned a lot from Halo 5", hype cycle starts again, pro players join 343, "even starts" is dropped by 343 intern, etc

 

[VinFTW]

That is true. We'll see.

This is wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWnY4U_5avU

Pause the video at either :23 or :24 to see a red sprinting spartan in the background.


I STILL say, despite what you all think, this video confirms sprinting. (and fucking sliding...)

 

[-Ryn]

CoD fad is coming to an end. It never was a great game. It just had the proper market conditions and awareness that rocketed the franchise through the roof.

This is why copying it was such a dumb idea. You copy those who have earned their fame with quality work, not quality timing.

I think that incorporating an idea from another series is okay if you think it will work well in your own game and make it more fun.

I was really hoping Titanfall would kick CoD off its throne but it just lacked the content.

Sprint negatively impacts Halo gameplay. We've had these posts before, dozens of them. They impact maps, they impact gunplay, they impact map control, spawns, promote cat and mouse gameplay, maps were ridiculously large because they had to account for sprint. I'm sure you noticed it. Became just like CoD, instant respawn, sprint, die, change loadout, repeat.

The cycle only repeats like that if you play without thinking. Sprint is a tool just like every other ability and weapon you have. The reason this discussion keeps coming up is because not everyone agrees that sprint negatively impacting Halo is an inherent thing. I've seen a the discussions and still think sprint can work as a good addition to Halo.

Loved Reach for the enemy shield indicator and shield regen lights, thats all the info you need to know in Halo.

I understand you need those indicators in non shielded enemies like the other fps games but Halo have that unique visual feedback of the enviroment around you, simple and efective.

Nicely put

 

[Masterz117]

If they absolutely HAVE to keep sprint, then it should be:

Sprint turned off for arena MP

Sprint turned on for BTB

I would be perfectly fine with that, as long as the vehicle health system is fixed so it's worthwhile to use vehicles for transportation.

 

[-Ryn]

If they absolutely HAVE to keep sprint, then it should be:

Sprint turned off for arena MP

Sprint turned on for BTB

I would be perfectly fine with that, as long as the vehicle health system is fixed so it's worthwhile to use vehicles for transportation.

Speaking of vehicle health, it sure would be nice if the vehicle and teammate health at returned.

Health packs were something I loved about CE and Reach as well.

 

[Computron]

Though I think a lot of the appeal for Halo 4 also comes from the fact they had much better renders and that the in game model looks better than ever.

Look at the Halo 4 MK VI version on the last page, and then also the version in Halo 2 anniversary. Imagine if it was fully rendered like in campaign, but also, if the new gritty dark green armor and texture work was applied. I wonder what it would like then.

This has some excellent hardsurface modeling in it, and good materials/shaders to show it off. A welcome step up from Halo 4 painted styrofoam looking armor...

 

[jem0208]

this will start you off.


and this is objectively why halo 4 is bad, written by our own fyrewulf http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=709697=

Before I get down to discussing their points on sprint I have to say their first paragraph is bullshit. Halo 3 was free at that time, of course it was going to be higher than 4.

Also fyrewulf's post hardly says why 4 is "objectively" bad. It just has a bunch of population graphs.


On to the sprint points...


I can understand some of the points made but I don't necessarily agree with all of them.

The point that players who win a battle will not have time to regain their shield can be fixed with with a good spawn system. I've actually never encountered the issue myself. I also argue that sprint reduces the downtime for those who have just died. Walking around looking for people is boring. Getting back into fights faster is a good thing imo.


I also have issue with the up scaling point. You can still have small hallways and small rooms with sprint. I agree that the map would be larger, however it wouldn't have to be scaled up. Just because that is the approach 343 took doesn't mean it's the correct one. If the maps are well designed they can accommodate both sprint and a map scale similar to older halos.

The letter attempts to use maps from previous halos to back this point up. Well obviously older maps won't work with sprint because they weren't designed to work with sprint.

The point about how you have to be constantly looking around for people sprinting doesn't seem necessarily bad to me. It forces people to be more aware of the enemies movements, it also encourages teamwork. If you're too busy to check an area get a teammate to cover you.

It's different, but not necessarily worse.



Most of the negatives seem debatable to me. And they certainly aren't objectively bad things. You also have to consider that there are benefits to sprint.

It's fun, for one. Quite a few people have agreed that the sense of speed you get from sprinting is actually quite fun. Using sprint to perform trick jumps can be awesome. It's also very useful in situations where you are stuck far from any of the action. Like I said earlier, wandering around looking for people is boring. Sprint helps solve that issue.


I can see that it has some negatives, however I also think it solves some and brings positives along as well.




Sorry for the rambley post, on my phone.




Regarding hit markers. Not sure about grenade hit markers. Will have to play with with them before I make a real judgement. Weapon hit markers on the other hand are great. It's especially nice when shooting people at distance.