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Halo |OT 20| It really does feel like Halo

Dude. Don't make this about gender issues in gaming. It isn't.

All anyone has been saying is that she looks weird because she does. Her proportions are off on her body as well as her face. We can say this because we have reference material of what she is supposed to look like. And isn't a new character therefore the thing about all women in games having to be this or that doesn't apply.

This has already been discussed and I even said "maybe I don't understand your complaints", when I was talking to someone else. Sorry for making it more dramatic than it needed to be.

Cortana has looked pretty different from each game. My wife looked at it and said she doesn't look odd at all. She's certainly different I'll grant you that, so I understand the complaints. I was more or less responding to the fact that people said she has "no neck" etc etc.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
What are you guys talking about? CEA had the Terminals in-game. Halo 4 was the one that forced you to go to Waypoint on your own time.
 

Omni

Member
What are you guys talking about? CEA had the Terminals in-game. Halo 4 was the one that forced you to go to Waypoint on your own time.

Yeah, I was just about to say that. You could watch all of CEA's terminals in game IIRC.

Don't see why they can't let us download them. I don't want to stream them every time. Waste of bandwidth. We're already downloading a 20GB patch... what's another few GBs on top of that? Unless they're trying to force people to use their app. Which would be shitty.
 

HaleStorm

Member
What are you guys talking about? CEA had the Terminals in-game. Halo 4 was the one that forced you to go to Waypoint on your own time.

I played Halo 4 for the first time deployed on a carrier (no internet at all whatsoever) which meant no spartan ops and mor eimportantly no terminals.

The story makes no fucking sense if you don't use the terminals to fill in the back story. When I finished it I was so disappointed in how terrible the campaign was.

Playing it again and getting the terminals made it a much better experience though for sure.
 

Impala26

Member
That reminds me; not only does Halo 2 have the best soundtrack, but it also uses its soundtrack the most effectively during gameplay.

Halo CE is not short of good tracks. The problem is that music tracks are often sparsely spaced apart, especially in longer missions like AotCR where stuff like Rock Anthem to Save the Universe would play and then stop. It is an awesome track, but everytime I play that mission it feels out of place since IIRC it plays during one of those random and barely distinguishable rooms.

I feel that Halo 3 is somewhat similar with good tracks playing over inappropriate times, or were simply out of place for what was happening on screen. I'm not saying that this is always the case, but a few examples like this contribute to the overall impression. There are a number of examples that suggest otherwise in both games (Covenant Dance in CE, the two Scarabs battle etc).


Halo 2 is completely different. Playing through missions like Gravemind and High Charity with the perfect suites to go with them, in beautiful environments while the Covenant is tearing itself apart... I don't think moments like that can be topped outside of a cutscene.

Other examples include Peril in Delta Halo, etc. Even some of the (arguably) more disliked tracks, like those from Incubus, actually suited the combat well. I vividly remember the Banshee fight in the Arbiter with that guitar music in the background.

You can have good soundtracks but the best Halo missions use them in the most effective way to build up an atmosphere. Halo 2, while imperfect, is simply the master of that strategy, IMO.

This is also why I don't judge soundtrack samples too harshly until I see them in action. I still don't like parts of the new Gungrir Mix, but it just feels better when it plays in the background of Halo 2 related action.

Actually, the Banshee section on the "Cloud City" level is one of my favorite parts of the Halo 2, Incubus track included. I actually think the instrumental track of "Follow" stylistically fits Marty's/Mike's soundtrack quite well, certainly WAY better than the Breaking Benjamin one in the Mausoleum. Minor key strumming guitar track with only slight distortion FTW. I am curious to see how well the new Misha Monsour track fits that section (I'll at least give it a chance).
 
I played Halo 4 for the first time deployed on a carrier (no internet at all whatsoever) which meant no spartan ops and mor eimportantly no terminals.

The story makes no fucking sense if you don't use the terminals to fill in the back story. When I finished it I was so disappointed in how terrible the campaign was.

Playing it again and getting the terminals made it a much better experience though for sure.

I can kind of relate to this. I played H4 campaign on Legendary with a friend in about 2 sittings... We had fun gameplay-wise, but we were left scratching our heads about the Didact, Promethean origins, Librarian etc. We went back and watched the terminals and everything made way more sense.

Even Cortana seems silly in H4 until you know her background lore and how she was formed from Halsey's DNA. She is advanced AI that can feel emotions/personality of the one she is replicated from. I initially thought Cortana was a cheezy melodramatic freak in H4 despite "going rampant."
 

HaleStorm

Member
I can kind of relate to this. I played H4 campaign on Legendary with a friend in about 2 sittings... We had fun gameplay-wise, but we were left scratching our heads about the Didact, Promethean origins, Librarian etc. We went back and watched the terminals and everything made way more sense.

Even Cortana seems silly in H4 until you know her background lore and how she was formed from Halsey's DNA. She is advanced AI that can feel emotions/personality of the one she is replicated from. I initially thought Cortana was a cheezy melodramatic freak in H4 despite "going rampant."

If I remember correctly they really never do much to explain exactly what is going on with Cortana and how serious the rampancy is, as well as how much she has pushed and abused herself in the past. Thankfully I read the books, so all of that made perfect sense to me as it was happening.

Without getting to experience any of her inner monologue like in the books, I could see it being very easy to dismiss her as a computer program that was just designed to be sassy when it fact she is very much sentient.
 
If I remember correctly they really never do much to explain exactly what is going on with Cortana and how serious the rampancy is, as well as how much she has pushed and abused herself in the past. Thankfully I read the books, so all of that made perfect sense to me as it was happening.

Without getting to experience any of her inner monologue like in the books, I could see it being very easy to dismiss her as a computer program that was just designed to be sassy when it fact she is very much sentient.

Dude so much yes. I mean, I always knew Cortana was advanced and had a "personality", but I had no idea to what extent and why. I need to read the books, I really want to.

I always loved how Cortana was one of the few female lead characters in gaming that was calm, cool, witty and sassy without being a nuisance (kind of like an Alyx Vance from Half Life 2). Then comes Halo 4 and she seems to be a whiny depressed woman. Initially it was a jarring cheeze fest because "she's just an AI...sheesh...."

I appreciate Halo 4 campaign way more now that I read a lot of back story lore.

When does Halo channel go live?

Frankie has said in the past it goes live November 11th with the MCC.
 

Omni

Member
I'm still salty that they made Cortana go rampant in the first place

I liked the theory that she reached the fourth stage of rampancy (Metastability) at the end of Halo 3 when Chief found her. So she would be like the Forerunner AI, Mendicant Bias. Made sense and was nice.

Instead we got a campaign that destroyed her iconic personality and slowly made me dislike everything about her.
 
I'm still salty that they made Cortana go rampant in the first place

I liked the theory that she reached the fourth stage of rampancy (Metastability) at the end of Halo 3 when Chief found her. So she would be like the Forerunner AI, Mendicant Bias. Made sense and was nice.

Instead we got a campaign that destroyed her iconic personality and slowly made me dislike everything about her.

I hear ya, but isn't the point about Cortana's degradation supposed to point to the fact that she isn't as advanced as Mendicant Bias? I just think this is a plot set up for chief to either repair Cortana into a permanent advanced state like forunner AI, or reverse engineer her into a human like some of the Halo Legends/comics indicate could be possible after someone is "absorbed" by the composer.
 

HaleStorm

Member
I'm still salty that they made Cortana go rampant in the first place

I liked the theory that she reached the fourth stage of rampancy (Metastability) at the end of Halo 3 when Chief found her. So she would be like the Forerunner AI, Mendicant Bias. Made sense and was nice.

Instead we got a campaign that destroyed her iconic personality and slowly made me dislike everything about her.

She really couldn't not go rampant though. It would have to happen at some point, or they would basically jus be deciding that the books meant nothing.

I am excited that 343 is doing more to incorporate the mythology of the books into the game as there is a lot of cool material there to deal with.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Wait did someone say incubus - follow was a disliked track?

Someone hold me back

Weird as it was having mainstream stuff on a Halo OST I really liked that track and it's implementation. It made the level where the base is falling and Arby is cutting the giant wires better overall because of the fast tempo. Aside from the main theme it's probably the song I remember most when I think of Halo 2.
 

Omni

Member
She really couldn't not go rampant though. It would have to happen at some point, or they would basically jus be deciding that the books meant nothing.

I am excited that 343 is doing more to incorporate the mythology of the books into the game as there is a lot of cool material there to deal with.
You played Halo 3, right? She was rampant in that. Just look what happened while you were on High Charity.

Chief found her, pulled her out of it. Gave her hope. At that point she was essentially human and her tone changes significantly. Especially in the final cutscene ("I'll miss you"). But then in Halo 4 she regresses again which I just don't like.

There's so many ways 343i could have taken Halo 4's story and they chose the most annoying. At that point all the books were basically screaming that 343i's new saga would be about the Precursors returning and testing humanity in regards to their ability to uphold the mantle. But for some reason they ended that storyline in Greg Bear's third book and instead we get civil war and needless espionage.
 
That would be the cheesiest thing imaginable.

I initially thought so too, but in a Halo Legends episode (and some comics I think?) they showed Covenant in the past being "resurrected" in a similar way. Cortana is more than just AI code, she is very much sentient like someone else posted so if it was explained well, I could buy it.
 

Omni

Member
you always are. You'd be salty if Cortana gave you a blow-job through the screen. "Ugh, BLUE Cortana, why couldn't she be purple!? grumble grumble"
Haha. In my defence

Kj6RAP5.png
 
You played Halo 3, right? She was rampant in that. Just look what happened while you were on High Charity.

Halo 3 wasn't really true rampancy, it was a combination of that starting and being stranded alone right?

Halo 4 continued the timeline of rampancy and it started to kill her, unlike Halo 3 where she was more or less going mad.

That's how I interpreted it anyways, but I have had the same question.
 

HaleStorm

Member
You played Halo 3, right? She was rampant in that. Just look what happened while you were on High Charity.

Chief found her, pulled her out of it. Gave her hope. At that point she was essentially human and her tone changes significantly. Especially in the final cutscene ("I'll miss you"). But then in Halo 4 she regresses again which I just don't like.

There's so many ways 343i could have taken Halo 4's story and they chose the most annoying. At that point all the books were basically screaming that 343i's new saga would be about the Precursors returning and testing humanity in regards to their ability to uphold the mantle. But for some reason they ended that storyline in Greg Bear's third book and instead we get civil war and needless espionage.

But rampancy is not something that you recover from. I always related it to something like alzheimers. You can have good times and bad, someetimes things seem to be a bit better for a while when you learn to wark around a particular issue, but in the end you are still fucked.

Couple that with the fact that she already split herself up in first strike, then tried to put herself back together, this leads to multiple warring personalities that need to be reintegrated in different stages of progression towards rampancy.

As rampancy can be attributed to an AI having too much going on in their 'mind' reintegrating the experiences of multiple version would have increasing the ammount of information taken on by her.

Couple that with how disoriented she seems in a couple of situations after she takes on tremendous amounts of data from halo installations, High Charity, possibly the gravemind, etc, the rampancy was coming. 7 years is how long a typical AI lasts before it has to be put down due to rampancy. Expose an AI to what Cortana has been exposed to and it totally makes sense that rampancy was the only logical outcome at some point.
 
But rampancy is not something that you recover from. I always related it to something like alzheimers. You can have good times and bad, someetimes things seem to be a bit better for a while when you learn to wark around a particular issue, but in the end you are still fucked.

Couple that with the fact that she already split herself up in first strike, then tried to put herself back together, this leads to multiple warring personalities that need to be reintegrated in different stages of progression towards rampancy.

As rampancy can be attributed to an AI having too much going on in their 'mind' reintegrating the experiences of multiple version would have increasing the ammount of information taken on by her.

Couple that with how disoriented she seems in a couple of situations after she takes on tremendous amounts of data from halo installations, High Charity, possibly the gravemind, etc, the rampancy was coming. 7 years is how long a typical AI lasts before it has to be put down due to rampancy. Expose an AI to what Cortana has been exposed to and it totally makes sense that rampancy was the only logical outcome at some point.

Nice post dude. That makes sense. I can dig.
 

dwells

Member
Bah, I'm not supporting 343s anti purple agenda.
#savethepurples

She really couldn't not go rampant though. It would have to happen at some point, or they would basically jus be deciding that the books meant nothing.

I am excited that 343 is doing more to incorporate the mythology of the books into the game as there is a lot of cool material there to deal with.
I really like rampancy too, but I wish they had done more with it. It kind of ultimately just became a "damn, Cortana's crazy and she's making things difficult" plot device. The concept of rampancy itself I think deserves a bit more than that, as it's one of the more interesting sci-fi concepts out there.

It's essentially the equivalent of Alzheimer's and I don't doubt that's where the inspiration comes from. It occurs late in life, is strongly degenerative, drastically affects comprehension and memory, and occasionally allows for moments of lucidity. I think it would've been interesting to see these parallels explored more.

It really segues into important questions like how blurred the line is between AI and human, hell, what does it really mean to be human? Of Cortana and the Chief, the Chief may be the one who is "human," but ultimately it's Cortana who shows the most emotion and goes through the most human struggles.

Maybe that's all a bit too heavy for a first person shooter, though. I just think it's all really interesting and would've loved to see more of it. I think Halo kind of struggles to really connect emotionally at times. It's obvious they're making an effort to connect and they've explored a handful of ways of doing so (ODST and Reach in particularly), but ultimately I've found myself unable to really attach to the characters the way I did in titles like Uncharted or The Last of Us.
 

Omni

Member
But rampancy is not something that you recover from. I always related it to something like alzheimers. You can have good times and bad, someetimes things seem to be a bit better for a while when you learn to wark around a particular issue, but in the end you are still fucked.

Couple that with the fact that she already split herself up in first strike, then tried to put herself back together, this leads to multiple warring personalities that need to be reintegrated in different stages of progression towards rampancy.

As rampancy can be attributed to an AI having too much going on in their 'mind' reintegrating the experiences of multiple version would have increasing the ammount of information taken on by her.

Couple that with how disoriented she seems in a couple of situations after she takes on tremendous amounts of data from halo installations, High Charity, possibly the gravemind, etc, the rampancy was coming. 7 years is how long a typical AI lasts before it has to be put down due to rampancy. Expose an AI to what Cortana has been exposed to and it totally makes sense that rampancy was the only logical outcome at some point.
I don't really agree, but I'm too tired to argue about it whatever the case. It's getting late here (2am). I did read it though. :)

Are we expecting anything today from IGN?
 

danwarb

Member
Cortana was unconvincing in 4. If rampancy was more painful to observe, with confused and lucid periods, and an obvious struggle to carry on with commitments in spite of thinking differently/crazily at times, that'd have been more powerful. Instead it was mostly self aware sad face and saying "Chief" a lot. The bits of madness in Halo 3 were better presented.
 

Mix

Member
I don't really agree, but I'm too tired to argue about it whatever the case. It's getting late here (2am). I did read it though. :)

Are we expecting anything today from IGN?
Just a walkthrough maybe, There's supposed to be a surprise this week but I think they'll save it for Friday.
 

jem0208

Member
Cortana was unconvincing in 4. If rampancy was more painful to observe, with confused and lucid periods, and an obvious struggle to carry on with commitments in spite of thinking differently/crazily at times, that'd have been more powerful. Instead it was mostly self aware sad face and saying "Chief" a lot. The bits of madness in Halo 3 were better presented.

I dunno.


This was a pretty powerful moment

sff-artificial-intelligence-cortana-2.jpg



Just a walkthrough maybe, There's supposed to be a surprise this week but I think they'll save it for Friday.

What walkthroughs do we have left?


They've done Bloodline, Warlord and Lockdown. Did they do Zenith yet?
 
What are you guys talking about? CEA had the Terminals in-game. Halo 4 was the one that forced you to go to Waypoint on your own time.

You can watch the terminal in the Halo Channel . ( Now, in the Master chief collection)

Halo Channel is live, but not working correctly. Yesterday, i found a terminal in Halo Annivesary, and the narrator told meg the japanese words. :D
 
Cortana was unconvincing in 4. If rampancy was more painful to observe, with confused and lucid periods, and an obvious struggle to carry on with commitments in spite of thinking differently/crazily at times, that'd have been more powerful. Instead it was mostly self aware sad face and saying "Chief" a lot. The bits of madness in Halo 3 were better presented.

Eh. I bought it without much difficulty. She had her lucid moments, and she had her bad moments, but you could tell she was slipping more and more throughout the game (like when she crashes you into the station with the Composer on it). There's this kind of resignation around her during her lucid moments, too, really pounds it in. I think it worked, all in all.
 

DJ Gunner

Member
I dunno.


This was a pretty powerful moment

sff-artificial-intelligence-cortana-2.jpg

It was way more powerful in the E3 Trailer- the way she she said it, inflections etc. When I got to that point in game I was so disappointed when she got all emo apologetic afterwards. She was ready to kick ass in the trailer, and the actual moment she ends up whimpering and retreating.

Uber Lame.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
So, how do you think Cortana will re-emerge? Or is she gone, forever.
She'll come back in a physical hard light body with a jetpack and rocket launcher gauntlets and a katana in a 343xPlatinum developed spiritual successor to MGS: Rising.
BELIEVE.

Edit : You know, I'd be kind of into the energy sword getting a drastic redesign. I don't want it's functionality to change, just it's appearance.
 

HaleStorm

Member
#savethepurples
Maybe that's all a bit too heavy for a first person shooter, though. I just think it's all really interesting and would've loved to see more of it. I think Halo kind of struggles to really connect emotionally at times. It's obvious they're making an effort to connect and they've explored a handful of ways of doing so (ODST and Reach in particularly), but ultimately I've found myself unable to really attach to the characters the way I did in titles like Uncharted or The Last of Us.

This is the heart of the problem. The problem with Halo, or the problem with Bungie, take your pick.

The original halo was arguably the best FPS experience to date on console, and was the first time many people (maybe most?) had the opportunity to play a game against more than 3 other people split screen. This created a huge following. The story also had tons of potential. It was not particularly deep, but the setting was what made people's imaginations spark. This was fanned into an inferno by the books that seem to have had little to actually do with Bungie at first other than them just signing off on what another author did.

The books made the Halo universe much deeper and much more engrossing, sadly though, none of that really made it into any of the halo games that bungie did until reach, and that was still just a weak link because it took place in the same area as one of the books and finally did something with one character.

If you want a complete Halo experience, Understanding the Spartan Program (started to suppress uprising in the outlying colonies) Cortana's origins, (halsey) and how rampancy works, as well as why Cortana is not a typical AI, you really have to go and read all the books. Admittedly I have not read the forerunner trilogy yet though, so the quality level may not hold up.

I am seeing the same thing with Destiny. great game and mechanics, but there is no life to the story. Fantastic setting with infinite possibility, but they are doing nothing with any of it. Bungie needs to start hiring authors to write their games before they come out instead of just signing off on a book after the fact.
 
Cortanas Halo 4 design grew on me. I still wish her hair wasn't as dark compared to everything else, but I like it overall. I hope they don't give it any major overhauls in the future.

I don't care if Cortana is purple, blue or somewhere in-between in Halo 2A.. I just wanna know wtf happened to her face and design. It looks really awkward.
 

HaleStorm

Member
So, how do you think Cortana will re-emerge? Or is she gone, forever.

Unless they use some Forerunner technology (magic) to take a new scan of Halsey and try to recombine it with whatever is left of Cortana now, I do not see any feasible way to do this within the lore of the universe.

It seems that they may be going in that direction though with John trying to find Halsey, and possibly going rogue to do so, (Where did she end up again at the end of Spartan Ops?) which would explain why Locke is trying to learn how the Master Chief thinks and is apparently tracking him.
 
This is the heart of the problem. The problem with Halo, or the problem with Bungie, take your pick.

The original halo was arguably the best FPS experience to date on console, and was the first time many people (maybe most?) had the opportunity to play a game against more than 3 other people split screen. This created a huge following. The story also had tons of potential. It was not particularly deep, but the setting was what made people's imaginations spark. This was fanned into an inferno by the books that seem to have had little to actually do with Bungie at first other than them just signing off on what another author did.

The books made the Halo universe much deeper and much more engrossing, sadly though, none of that really made it into any of the halo games that bungie did until reach, and that was still just a weak link because it took place in the same area as one of the books and finally did something with one character.

If you want a complete Halo experience, Understanding the Spartan Program (started to suppress uprising in the outlying colonies) Cortana's origins, (halsey) and how rampancy works, as well as why Cortana is not a typical AI, you really have to go and read all the books. Admittedly I have not read the forerunner trilogy yet though, so the quality level may not hold up.

I am seeing the same thing with Destiny. great game and mechanics, but there is no life to the story. Fantastic setting with infinite possibility, but they are doing nothing with any of it. Bungie needs to start hiring authors to write their games before they come out instead of just signing off on a book after the fact.

I pretty much agree that this is spot on. I think Halo has a lot more going for it story-wise than a lot of FPS, but the fact that the games often create more questions than answers can be frustrating. Destiny hardly tries however and that's tragic to a lot of us. The way Halo does it is tantalizing in a sense, because it gives you plenty to care about the fiction and pushes you to dig for the answers in books, online articles etc. I think the Halo Channel is at least a step in the right direction because it consolidates a lot of the fiction and rewards the player/viewer for digging into the lore in a deeper way.
 

AlStrong

Member
She'll come back in a physical hard light body with a jetpack and rocket launcher gauntlets and a katana in a 343xPlatinum developed spiritual successor to MGS: Rising.
BELIEVE.

BUT SHE WILL EMERGE AS A LIGHT PURPLE SO ALL IS WELL.

lol

Didact will scrape together whatever parts of her are left in the computer system then use her as a weapon against Chief.

But will she have a neck?

She'll come back as a purple monitor.

No neck, I guess.


Edit : You know, I'd be kind of into the energy sword getting a drastic redesign. I don't want it's functionality to change, just it's appearance.

I much prefer the CE gaseous plasma as opposed to the hard crystal it's become. Even the H2 E3 2003 version was pretty nice.

nfCbVFy.jpg
 
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