It's my opinion that the main "use" of sprint should be to navigate mid to large size maps more quickly, in a sense "get back to the action quicker". Design-wise you actually saw Bungie doing a bit of this in Halo 3 with the Mongoose on some of their larger maps. With no armaments, Mongeese were purely a speedy way of zipping to another part of a map after spawing, most notably with Valhalla. This is the main purpose I envision for sprint, as opposed to necessarily a panic "oh sheet gotta get the hell outta dodge" button that saves you.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo |OT 20| It really does feel like Halo
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
It's my opinion that the main "use" of sprint should be to navigate mid to large size maps more quickly, in a sense "get back to the action quicker". Design-wise you actually saw Bungie doing a bit of this in Halo 3 with the Mongoose on some of their larger maps. With no armaments, Mongeese were purely a speedy way of zipping to another part of a map after spawing, most notably with Valhalla. This is the main purpose I envision for sprint, as opposed to necessarily a panic "oh sheet gotta get the hell outta dodge" button that saves you.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Precisely. I feel like this would solve a lot of issues of even spawn killing. You might be able to flee to a safer spot, but if a couple of BR shots landed on you, your sprinting is effectively diminished. Also, it would help if sprinting wasn't immediate, but it took a second to get into full speed.
It was so frustrating in Halo 4 to nail someone nail someone with a grenade or pop his shields with a sniper when he was sprinting only to see him sprint away as I'm switching to my BR.
BladedExpert
Member
Welshman here! Not posted around these parts for a while, but this collection is the thing that will pull me away from PC gaming. MCC is preloaded and I'm ready to go. Can't wait!
Documentary was a cool watch too. Some cool memories in there.
FrakkinFordy
Banned
Well, I now know what I'm having for dinner tonight.....
With salt and chippie sauce no less
TRD Mr Blonde
Member
That documentary was excellent. Almost got some man tears.
Irn Bru is GOAT.
Excellent hangover cure.
U dissen' Englan' m8?!
I'll shank ya blud.
(I actually live in Wales and was born in Scotland. So I have basically no affiliation with the English in the slightest.)
As you lot already know, I'm personally fine with sprint and I would be happy with or without it. I think we can be pretty certain it'll be in. I think we'll actually get sprint and thruster packs.
As for the tagging idea, I thought this was already the case? You do slow down when shot. I'm not sure about changing the amount you slow depending on the weapon though.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Yeah, either way it seems it needs to be increased. Also, it seems the speed of which someone gets into full sprint should be decreased as well.
Sprinting should die in fire. Up the base movement speed.
But but big team battle maps are too big to blah blah blah. Wrong. BTB maps should be designed for vehicle traversal. Remove the DMR from the game (or drop scope to 2x / remove the massive bullet magnetism) and you won't have such a problem getting pinged across the map as you're walking.
But but big team battle maps are too big to blah blah blah. Wrong. BTB maps should be designed for vehicle traversal. Remove the DMR from the game (or drop scope to 2x / remove the massive bullet magnetism) and you won't have such a problem getting pinged across the map as you're walking.
Or just do what they were doing in Halo 1-3. Build maps that put you in the action quicker. Midship, Lockout, etc were all great maps because you were always in the action. Most of the classic small maps were like this. They had some areas you wanted to control and lots of fast pathways to get there.
But in Halo 4 you have maps like Adrift where its just long ass corridors in order to get into the action. Or the way too big for 4 v 4 Complex. I liked Haven but even that map felt too big. Best map in Halo 4 seemed to be that arena forge map.
In reach you has Swordbase which you needed jetpack or sprint to manuever well at all. Or Powerhouse which has large unused areas.
Why bother trying to fit it in at all? Halo played fine without it and it just causes too many problems.
FrakkinFordy
Banned
Re Sprint - Serious gameplay points aside for a second - does anyone else find it amusing to think of Spartans just strolling around a battlefield? Just out for a Sunday walk, headshot some fools with my BR, play grenade fetch with the dog.....Lovely weather we're having today etc, etc.....Or perhaps they could do that fast walk/mincing thing that speed walkers do?
If you find yourself in the middle of nowhere without a vehicle you're in for a long walk. It can take ages to get back to the action on larger BTB maps. Being designed for vehicles is great, until you don't have a vehicle. When it sucks.
I think knocking you down to the base movement speed would be fine.
Actually, you could have it where being shot knocks you out of sprint. Like descope.
Yeah. The argument of "we need sprint to get back to the action" should really be an argument to make better (smaller) maps and remove sprint.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I'm not saying it should, but from what I have heard from pros involved with 343, I sincerely doubt sprint is going away. I'm trying to offer some ways it can be a balanced yet viable way to play Halo. I prefer Halo CE and Halo 2, but I can definitely see some solutions to balance the sprint/fleeing issue Halo Reach and Halo 4 had. A balanced tagging system, slower to get into full sprint speed etc could actually add depth to the game instead of diminish it. Counter Strike has had a "sprint" of sorts by pulling out your knife and you run faster, but you get tagged by various weapons. It really levels the playing field while giving a player an option of quicker mobility while adding risk.
Also, from a casual/campaign perspective it does seem extremely stupid that in cut scenes and the lore spartans are supposed to be really quick on their feet and able to sprint very quickly.
I second that.
No Sprint, No Armor ability, No loud out.
MO.
Many of you are completely missing the point of my original proposal. Some of you have responded reasonably and I appreciate that. Saying "sprint should die in a fire" and "NO SPRINT" etc isn't going to make this forum a place where opinions are taken seriously.
I think Halo 5 MP will be largely based on MP activity on MCC.
343i Will keep track on what game is played most, Which MP and maybe Halo 5 MP will be based on that.
There are 4 games with 4 different MP experience. Sprint, No sprint, Dual wielding, No Dual Wielding, AB, No AB. And so on.
Based on the Halo 5 teaser trailer we have and Frankies statement, I am like 101% sure Halo 5 will have sprint. Which is okay I think. The question shouldn't be sprint yes/no. It all just depends on how well they integrate it. It's a game mechanic for everyone. They should make sprint less forgiving if you sprint in the wrong situation.
They're perfectly valid opinions. No one's attacking you, it's just the hatred for sprint is strong and discussing ways of making it slightly less destructive seems pointless.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
And as other people have already mentioned before, Halo maps for the Halo 5 beta are already being play tested around whatever mechanics they already have in place. Removing sprint from a game that has maps designed around it's already determined sandbox (at least from a early development standpoint) would be a lot harder than it seems you are suggesting.
Didn't say they were attacking me, but the way opinions are presented here is cliche and the typical lack of tact. Also, dismissing something (by me or whoever) with a quick "NO" isn't respectful of the one making a proposal, so in a way it's annoying. Saying a discussion is "pointless" when we are all pretty darn sure sprint is going to be in regardless, is a bit over the top IMHO.
MrGreencastle
Member
No Sprint.
Dash.
Dash.
Blue Ninja
Member
Any way for us Benelux trash to watch the ViDoc already? Keeps telling me it's unavailable.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
Just got done watching the "Remaking the Legend" that documentary. Wow... That was so awesome. I am so freakin hyped!
Wow. I can not wait for MCC. I just want it now!
Wow. I can not wait for MCC. I just want it now!
NobleGundam
Banned
H2A customs needs scarab guns. ship it.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
I too, would prefer Halo without sprint.
It just doesn't need to be there. I can't think of any real positives to it, but plenty of negatives.
I hear "get back into the action faster", but isn't that what mancannons, vehicles, and teleporters are for?
Halo with a slightly faster base movement speed would play just fine in my book.
Spartan abilities? As long as they are things that EVERY player can do, and that they leave the game breaking stuff on the table (Active Camo, Armour Lock, Jetpacks etc) then I'm totally open to it. I hear thrusters being mentioned a lot, most likely based on the Halo 5 teaser trailer, and yeah, I can live with stuff like that.
I know everyone's excited to play old school Halo in just over a week, but we get to see Halo 5 played live on launch night, right?
I can't wait to see it in action.
It just doesn't need to be there. I can't think of any real positives to it, but plenty of negatives.
I hear "get back into the action faster", but isn't that what mancannons, vehicles, and teleporters are for?
Halo with a slightly faster base movement speed would play just fine in my book.
Spartan abilities? As long as they are things that EVERY player can do, and that they leave the game breaking stuff on the table (Active Camo, Armour Lock, Jetpacks etc) then I'm totally open to it. I hear thrusters being mentioned a lot, most likely based on the Halo 5 teaser trailer, and yeah, I can live with stuff like that.
I know everyone's excited to play old school Halo in just over a week, but we get to see Halo 5 played live on launch night, right?
I can't wait to see it in action.
CloudyTuba
Member
Everyone's always clamoring for smaller maps. Better isn't synonymous with smaller! A lot of my favorite maps are larger. Halo 2 gave people a taste for small but I started with Halo 1 PC playing online. Give me Blood Gulch, Sidewinder, Gephyrophobia, Death Island any day. Go through each game of the series and you'll find some great large maps in addition to the great smaller maps.
VisceralBowl
Member
So I'm prototyping my first H2A map and I have this empty corner. I don't really want to wall it off, so what should I put there? You can get another view at the top right of this image.
Poodlestrike
Banned
So thinking about Spartan Abilites...
What I think would work well is have them all tied to one button, and share one resource bar. The resource bar would have enough whatever to allow for two consecutive dashes, and different abilities would use different amounts. Going off the trailer, the abilities will probably be something like...
Dash = direction + tap
Slide = direction + hold
Tackle = Dash in the direction of a Spartan, then hit B at the right distance. From the front and sides, it's just a souped up melee, but from the back it transitions into an assassination.
Ground Pound = hold in air, no direction. Decent AOE, does just enough damage to strip shields at the edge and kill an enemy directly below/adjacent to impact, but also totally strips the users shields, so if you miss you're incredibly vulnerable.
Other than those, I'd also like to see a double jump and maybe an air dash. I think it could work.
What I think would work well is have them all tied to one button, and share one resource bar. The resource bar would have enough whatever to allow for two consecutive dashes, and different abilities would use different amounts. Going off the trailer, the abilities will probably be something like...
Dash = direction + tap
Slide = direction + hold
Tackle = Dash in the direction of a Spartan, then hit B at the right distance. From the front and sides, it's just a souped up melee, but from the back it transitions into an assassination.
Ground Pound = hold in air, no direction. Decent AOE, does just enough damage to strip shields at the edge and kill an enemy directly below/adjacent to impact, but also totally strips the users shields, so if you miss you're incredibly vulnerable.
Other than those, I'd also like to see a double jump and maybe an air dash. I think it could work.
FrakkinFordy
Banned
I can honestly say that the only ability type thing that ever annoyed me was Armour Lock. Although it was most amusing to engage lock as you were about to be splatted for me it was the whole stickies becoming unstuck thing (eventually patched wasn't it?).
Der Flatulator
Member
FrakkinFordy
Banned
A shrubbery? Nice one, not too expensive?
ElRenoRaven
Member
Honestly Halo 4 like I said wasn't bad. It just wasn't a great Halo game. When I think of Halo I think of wide open environments, great AI, missions that while really don't have variety they appear to have variety. Now I'll explain each of my issues and take them all in steps.
1. Missions consisted of Go here and insert Cortana there or push button. Now most Halo games you can break down to this level but they at least had variety. You had defend this spot, go and get to this destination, etc. In Halo 4 it was almost entirely Go here and push or insert Cortana there. There were a couple of missions that actually did vary from this and those were the really fun missions.
2. Mission play areas were pretty linear minus a spot or two. In the previous games there were sections that you had multiple paths or giant huge open play areas. In Halo 4 I can only think of one real area or maybe 2 that fulfilled this need. The rest were pretty linear.
3. The AI was a huge downgrade. Halo is known for it's AI. In previous games you could see it working to coral you in an area, drive you out, etc. In Halo 4 I would actually sit and watch the AI get stuck in a loop of moving forward and backward and not doing anything. this happened regularly. At the same time Bungie always made their AI follow the rules we had to movement wise. In Halo 4 they didn't. Grunts could thrust/jump really high instead of having to go up and around using steps and other stuff. It feels like this change was again a way to try and cover up the AI being a downgrade.
4. Prometheans weren't fun to fight. I was ok with the Knights and even the crawlers but the watchers were a pain in the ass. They were so small and could be hard to hit from a distance. More so when they would fold up and go hide. I actually liked the way they would grab grenades and shield knights. That part was cool. Just make the watchers a bit bigger. At the same time you could not tell what a promethean had until it was too late. They just all looked way too much alike and their attack patterns were unfun too in that it was the same AI issues of teleport forward, backward, forward, backward. Notice a pattern.
5. New characters were really hit or miss. Laskey and Thorne I actually liked. At the same time Del Rio and palmer sucked. I can kind of see what they were going for with Palmer but the dialog and the acting for the character were just awful. I swear if I hear the word egghead again I'm going to snap. Del Rio just sucked all around. Dialog, acting, story elements. He was just awful in every way.
6. Story was pretty weak. Certain changes weren't even explained. Cough cough armor cough cough. Then they didn't explain a lot of material. If I hadn't read the books I'd have been 100 percent lost. Say what you want but Bungie got one thing right. That was keeping the games story self contained. You never felt lost in their games. Then you had characters with specific personalities just totally changed. Halsey for example went from being someone who thought of the Spartans as her children in a way to some psycho who was just pure evil. It was just not needed. Combine that with their need to constantly beat us over the head with how evil she was and how everyone wants her dead or in prison, etc and it gets annoying.
7. Multiiplayer wise my biggest issues were again with armor abilities, random ordinance, lack of weapons on map, and the map design. Those things just made for a very un fun game most of the time. There were like 3 maps I liked. Those being exile, adrift, haven. I'm leaving out old maps remade cause those weren't 343 designs. The rest were mediocre to awful. There was no real flow to most of them and they were so cluttered due to the broken nature of the DMR and 343's need to break them up so you weren't just all sitting in corners shooting each other from across the maps. The actual gunplay underneath was great though minus the range of that DMR. It's range destroyed Sniper play and made even good maps unbearable due to it's insane range.
8. Going back to campaign again I forgot a couple things. Graphics were great yes but I feel those came at a price. Weapons disappeared way too quickly and whole areas regularly became locked off after you had passed them. One of the things I loved in the past games was that you could go back almost the complete length of a level and find ammo and just explore. In 4 you regularly couldn't and that sucked.
Now all that said I still enjoyed the campaign for the most part. Even found myself every so often enjoying the multiplayer. All of these things can be fixed too.
CloudyTuba
Member
So who is ready for some Backwash? I know you've all been waiting for its triumphant return.
I actually like Backwash for special gametypes like invisible swords
Fahzgoolin
Banned
So who is ready for some Backwash? I know you've all been waiting for its triumphant return.
I actually like Backwash for special gametypes like invisible swords
I am. It's one of those niche maps that really made customs fun. We use to play something called "predator" where a juggernaut had camo and hunted us down through the mist. Was insanely fun.
VisceralBowl
Member
That might work.
I think I'll put a button or teleporter in there.
CloudyTuba
Member
My man. That's exactly the kind of special gametype I'm talking about. Perfect map for that.
Whoosh.
VisceralBowl
Member
damn, I haven't seen it yet
Poodlestrike
Banned
orichalcos
Member
del
Insofar as issues I had with sprint, Halo 4 mostly solved them. There is the occasional sprint escape even with the stopping power, but for the most part it doesn't factor in besides getting me to the battles faster. People trying to sprint towards you for a double melee is practically nonexistent compared to Reach thanks to the combination of faster kill times and higher move speed. Going back to Reach on game nights with HBO I'm instantly amazed by how effective and widespread a move it is.
Insofar as maps... Trenchball (now with more Trench) will be making a comeback in H2A multiplayer. Budget and terrain pieces solve my major issues that I had, now I just hafta' think about integrating some of the dynamic pieces in...
Insofar as maps... Trenchball (now with more Trench) will be making a comeback in H2A multiplayer. Budget and terrain pieces solve my major issues that I had, now I just hafta' think about integrating some of the dynamic pieces in...
You can get it in the UK.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I want to respond because that was a lot of work you put into that post lol
For one, I agree with most of what you said. I'll use an exampel: I got my father into Halo since CE and he came to me after playing Halo 4 and said these things:
"Well...it was okayyy...I didn't like the Promethean weapons that much and the new enemies were kind of annoying to fight, and...why is Cortana so...sexualized? Was kind of weird. The story wasn't that easy to follow either"
He has replayed it since, and enjoys it, but for even a casual gamer like my Dad to mention a lot of stuff we do is a big sign there was something wrong.
However, my post wasn't necessarily about why Halo 4 was disappointing, but how Halo 5 could implement sprint into the game in a successfully balanced fashion with tagging, various weapon tagging stats, and slower to go into full sprint.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply =)
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
I'd love to share custom gametypes with all you guys? I imagine there's gotta be some classics between all of us here.
One that was ALWAYS popular on Halo 3 for our guys was BPEDTS (pronounced Beepeds)
Bonus Points Extra Damage Team Slayer.
Primary Weapon - BR
Secondary Weapon - Brute Shot
Weapons on Map - Human Sniper only.
Speed - 110%
Damage - 110% (Bringing the BR to a guaranteed 4 shot kill)
Extra points were awarded for various actions, such as multikills, headshots/noscopes, sticks, melees etc.
Play to 250 points for the win. Best played on The Pit.
Good times.
One that was ALWAYS popular on Halo 3 for our guys was BPEDTS (pronounced Beepeds)
Bonus Points Extra Damage Team Slayer.
Primary Weapon - BR
Secondary Weapon - Brute Shot
Weapons on Map - Human Sniper only.
Speed - 110%
Damage - 110% (Bringing the BR to a guaranteed 4 shot kill)
Extra points were awarded for various actions, such as multikills, headshots/noscopes, sticks, melees etc.
Play to 250 points for the win. Best played on The Pit.
Good times.
It's in UK store but you can't watch it without a UK account.
Similar threads
- Locked