343i themselves seem to have acknowledges that there are issues; the latest patch notes talk about adjusting how Halo 3 reads analog stick inputs for movement.
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Halo |OT 21| Battle is the Great Redeemer | LIVE. DIE. RESPAWN.
- Thread starter Plywood
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Really? I thought the IGN reveal was for all the armor in the beta.
Ugh... I hope not.
If I recall correctly they're showing off all or most of the arena maps for the beta. We haven't heard anything about BTB or even mid size stuff yet. Kamp hinted at "Fall of Reach sized battles" as something 343 were trying to emulate for something (new game type?) but that's it so far.
TriStateTryHard
Member
What would be the ideal player count for a next gen Invasion experience?
Am I on Waypoint? This is just silly. No one would be complaining that a free beta a year from release only has three maps. It's how Halo 3 and Reach worked. And most other multiplayer betas
Depends on the vehicle sandbox.
If it was like Halo Reach's but a bit bigger then I'd say 12v12 or 10v10 would be sweet. Especially now that we've got interactive elements in Forge. I can only imagine what people could come up with.
6v6 could still work though depending on what we've got to work with (bots?).
I think that objective based game types can really take advantage of larger player caps the best.
NobleGundam
Banned
Not excited for h5 beta. But i really really want to be..
What would excite you for it? Is it like a game type thing?
I was joking around.
NobleGundam
Banned
An all new type of weapons and/or a set of new maps to drool over.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Like Ryn said, it kind of depends. My ideal setup has freaking enormous maps, so player counts as high as 16 vs 16 could work, and that's in addition to Titanfall-style fodder. Just enormous conflicts. Vulture sized.
I would love to see 32 player Halo.
It would absolute chaos and amazing.
Imagine a multi team game mode where you had 8 teams of 4. That would crazy.
Have they revealed all the weapons for the beta yet? There's only 11 in it right? I wonder what they're saving the rest for...
The maps will probably start being revealed soon. What with the beta right around the corner by now.
Speaking of drool...
I would seriously love to see how Halo would play with a super BTB Invasion-esque gametype with a solid Vehicle Sandbox.
Military shooters bro. Not the same.
It's the Halo gameplay combined with large scale combat that makes the idea so appealing.
TriStateTryHard
Member
I just can't imagine any vehicle in Halo multiplayer larger than the Falcon. I also imagine that if Halo ever went bigger than ~12v12, it would prob need a large part of its weapon sandbox dedicated to long range engagements because, traditionally, the halo sandbox has favored closer range engagements (most weapons don't even have scopes).
Why not have both?
I want Halo gameplay on a massive scale. Nothing else can provide that.
Did you basically just complain that the Beta has too much content? I mean ... I know u a bit by now. You are often salty. We can discuss about sprint, ads ... I understand all these concerns. That's okay. But come on now ...
I'm also more the BTB guy btw.
This is true.
The maps would need to be designed with this in mind. Having lots of areas for players to weave through while also keeping open areas for vehicles. It'd certainly give the DMR more use.
I imagine there would be a transport flying vehicle that held 3 passengers. It could be a Falcon without guns or a new vehicle. One for the Covenant and one for Humans. Covenant one would have shields but be slower and vice versa. Ground vehicles already have a pretty solid set up. Though if anyone can think of something I'd love to hear it. Grizzlies probably would be impossible to balance.
Though there is that idea for a variant of the suit from Prototype. That could be used for infiltration or mainly defense.
The Henery
Member
The aiming definitely felt off, though I've gotten used to it. I had to drop my sensitivity to 2, which seems closest to 3 sens in the original. I posted about it firsts few days after launch and some dude on gaming side postulated that deadzones might be at play. It was a shock at first because the rest of the games' default sens feel right to me but H3's felt wild at 3 sens.
The audio issues need patching sharpish.
Played CE earlier and the net code was worse than playing a Columbian on an XBL Arcade title. Game's been unplayable since the removal of the hit confirmation sound. We were literally laughing at unloading full clips and seeing them turn around unscathed.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Do you think any adjustments would need to be made to the melee mechanic? It is already the least viable third of the Golden Triangle. Would massive maps make it even less relevant?
Gnome Scat
Member
I think they already made melee more viable in open fields by introducing the shoulder charge.
I don't think he was complaing about having a lot maps to play. He seems like he was worried that there wouldn't really be anything left for the full game to surprise is with which is a valid concern.
It's like... a LOT of pages!
TriStateTryHard
Member
You are sort of proving what I was getting at. Increasing the scale of combat requires modifications to existing mechanics, like melee, that were designed with smaller maps in mind. Is it worth changing everything that made Halo Halo in order to increase the scale of combat? (which is what massive player counts, or sprint, both do)
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I found my posts in that Halo 3 thread. Blast from the past.
Depends on if we can do stuff like shoulder charge to roll vehicles. If 343 hold a second beta for BTB then maybe we could provide input on potential ways to make melee more viable in large scale combat.
Melee has never really been a factor in vehicle battles though so I don't see this changes that.
Shoulder charge needs sprint to be at maximum - which again makes it not viable on smaller maps. It's all just a question of balancing.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I've said this before, but Halo 5 looks to be the game I wanted after Halo 2 lol. Now if they just removed sprint and upped the movement speed..
No CE hitmarker boops and no CE/H4 playlists are crushing my soul. My ground of friends and I only want to play those two games, but the struggle is too real.
Not sure if this can be answered, but are you able to give a timeframe on when they might be available?
TriStateTryHard
Member
Is locking the effective version of melee behind a sprint-wall a good thing though?
I can tell you that in about 4 weeks. I can not judge on something I haven't played yet.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Hmm, but how long does it take for sprint to reach "maximum velocity?" We saw someone use it on Midship and that's probably one of the smaller maps in the game, so I think it'll still be viable on small maps.
If we're talking from the moment you start sprinting to a split second later when you're in full sprint, then "maximum velocity" is probably just a PR stunt to have people believe what you just said to calm the flames lol. And if it's not, then why are we running faster the longer we sprint?
I've said this before, but Halo 5 looks to be the game I wanted after Halo 2 lol. Now if they just removed sprint and upped the movement speed..
It's why I'm so inclined to be optimistic.
Most of what I've seen so far has looked great and brings stuff in that my friends and I used to only dream about being in the game.
I must say I'm disappointed that sprint isn't a toggle. I love it in BTB and mid size maps, but I think that it doesn't work very well for smaller arena maps. We'll just have to wait and see what 343 can do I guess.
It's not really even the "effective" melee. It's power is only slightly greater and while the range is increased, if you miss well then you're pretty much dead assuming the guy you missed noticed you (and they would).
How do you feel about 2007 you?
Would you say it was like a rotation of winds at low atmosphere
Again - I haven't played it yet, so no final judgement on this one possible. However, I expect it just to be a very situational ability. I don't think we will see this ability often in pro-play. The risk is just too high with high-skilled players only. You can "dodge" it pretty easy with movement. Again, it is a question of balancing.
YourExWife
Member
Players disconnecting from LAN games....still...
Way to go Tashi.
Way to go Tashi.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Maybe this is the best way to sum up my problems with the direction of Halo 5:
Everything is locked behind a pay-wall and those pay-walls can only be used one at a time.
Effective movement is locked behind a sprint-wall and effective aiming is disabled while sprinting.
Effective aiming is locked behind an ADS-wall and effective movement is disabled while ADSing.
If a player is skilled enough, Classic Halo gives him the chance to simultaneously move and aim at maximum effectiveness. In Halo 5 it will be impossible to simultaneously move and aim at maximum effectiveness because you cannot ADS while Sprinting.
I think that is irrefutable proof that Halo 5 is dumbing down gameplay on a fundamental level.
Everything is locked behind a pay-wall and those pay-walls can only be used one at a time.
Effective movement is locked behind a sprint-wall and effective aiming is disabled while sprinting.
Effective aiming is locked behind an ADS-wall and effective movement is disabled while ADSing.
If a player is skilled enough, Classic Halo gives him the chance to simultaneously move and aim at maximum effectiveness. In Halo 5 it will be impossible to simultaneously move and aim at maximum effectiveness because you cannot ADS while Sprinting.
I think that is irrefutable proof that Halo 5 is dumbing down gameplay on a fundamental level.
Welfare
Member
There is no LAN.
YourExWife
Member
uwotm8?
I get what you're trying to say but I have to disagree with you.
If they make the base movement speed just as fast as CE and the strafing just as responsive, then I can't see the problem.
You can still be the super effective badass you were able to be in CE but now you have more tools at your disposal. These tools however require a trade off due to them being special boosts essentially.
Clamber for instance might allow you to get to an even higher place than you would crouch jumping, but you need to put away your gun for half a second. Sprinting is a boost in forward momentum at the price of offensive ability (except for melee) because otherwise why would you ever stop sprinting?
Welfare
Member
Everything is done online.
Every gameplay element in every Halo ever has had trade-offs. This is how balancing works. Even the smallest gameplay elements have a price.
Dual-wielding is tied together with artificial damage reductions on the two weapons you are holding and it locks out grenade throwing.
Assassinations are locked behind longer animations.
Getting a sniper rifle is locked behind having map control.
Reloading is locked behind not beingable to fire.
Armor lock is locked behind ... Yeah, you should get this one. ...
We could go on here forever. New gameplay elements aren't bad. New additions only become a problem when you don't get the balanced correctly. Balancing is an endless process. There will never be a timestamp where you could say that "yep, now Halo is balanced". It's not possible.
Riot writes down some very interesting articles about this on their dev blogs. League of Legends balancing is endless. Balancing means to find the right balance between overpowered and underpowered design and gameplay elements. Even adjusting on very, very small screws can result in huge new situations.
Computer
Member
This still blows my mind. What a fuck up. Yet they want Halo to be a esport.
I thought you could connect throygh LAN but first need to connect to the internet for a second. Is that not a thing anymore?
Welfare
Member
You know what? 343 actually gave me an idea.
Alright, so in Halo 5, while sprinting, you can hit "terminal velocity" after a bit. You can do a slide at the end.
Why not get rid of sprint, have a fast default movement speed, but when holding forward for a period of time, you naturally gain some speed until you hit "terminal velocity", or the fastest movement speed.
You can still shoot, throw grenades, and melee, and you get rid of the problem of having to walk to the battlefield in BTB, and is balanced in the fact that while in the fastest movement speed, you have to be going straight for it to work.
Well, why not?
Alright, so in Halo 5, while sprinting, you can hit "terminal velocity" after a bit. You can do a slide at the end.
Why not get rid of sprint, have a fast default movement speed, but when holding forward for a period of time, you naturally gain some speed until you hit "terminal velocity", or the fastest movement speed.
You can still shoot, throw grenades, and melee, and you get rid of the problem of having to walk to the battlefield in BTB, and is balanced in the fact that while in the fastest movement speed, you have to be going straight for it to work.
Well, why not?
Sprint without a sprint button eh?
Hmm... it just might be crazy enough to work.
How long are you thinking it should take to reach top speed? And how fast can you get out of it to strafe for instance? Or would the thruster pack be the only way to get out immediately?
TriStateTryHard
Member
Accelerating to top speed is already slow enough. Look at the degradation of the effectiveness of strafing from Halo 2 onward. Do you want strafing to be even slower and less effective than it is now?
Yep. I think stuff like thruster, ground pound etc. can be very good additions and still very Halo, but limiting players ability to shoot if they want to move at full speed is just bad for an arena shooter. It doesn't mean Halo 5 will be a bad game but it's not something I want to see in a Halo game
See my post above. You need to have reasons to do things - and to not to do things. You need to do choices in a game. The more choices you have - the more room for "awesome plays" and unique gameplay elemens (Battlefield is king here). Your suggested sprint change would result in benefits only. Why wouldn't I just keep running around the map at maximum speed while also being able to fire?
YourExWife
Member
Having to be signed into Live doesn't mean that the actual data for the match is transmitted over the internet. The network code for this game is just shit.
You have a source for the match data actually being online only?
My opinion:
Up the base movement speed a lot. Make it so sprinting is faster, but not enough to warrant really using it... at all (plus the penalties). It should be noticeably faster but not by much.
This way, all the people who need/want sprint get it and everybody else shouldn't feel penalized not using it ever.
Scratches that itch without screwing the other half over.
Up the base movement speed a lot. Make it so sprinting is faster, but not enough to warrant really using it... at all (plus the penalties). It should be noticeably faster but not by much.
This way, all the people who need/want sprint get it and everybody else shouldn't feel penalized not using it ever.
Scratches that itch without screwing the other half over.
I don't think "dumbing down" is what you're looking for.
Let's take Halo without sprint and an exact copy of the same Halo with sprint.
You are still able to do everything you could in the non sprint Halo. However adding sprint gives you another tool that you can use. However if you aren't careful with said tool, you might get yourself into a bind.
Thruster and Ground Pound can also be effective but you need to think about when to use them so you can use them best.
So how is that dumbing it down?
Welfare
Member
IDK :lol'
Maybe when in TV you strafe slower and need TP to get out of it instantly.
Now you see, while not in TV, strafing would be pretty quick. I guess while in TV, you sacrifice straifing (excluding TP) in exchange for faster foward speed.
Nah, while in TV, you are locked in a pseudo Tunnel vision. Sure, you are moving at the fastest possible speed, but as long as you are going in a straight motion. You are a predictable target while in this, can only shoot in front of you, which would have a downside because if the enemy gets behind you, you're fucked, and strafing would be hindered.
Again, just an idea.
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