Support NeoGAF

[Woorloog]

From the footage we've seen, it actually looks like 5 doesn't have a very defined "utility" weapon". The BR obviously still looks pretty good, however it seems the pistol is also quite powerful. The AR up close looks like it completely shreds and the DMR seems to be the go to long distance rifle.

It looks like quite a refreshing change from the constant BR/DMR usage of 2 onwards.


Hey, maybe AR/SMG starts will be fun now?

You know, i used to think this. I used to think having an utility weapon was boring. I used to think having automatics only might be fun. Then i figured that losing was much, much worse. And well thought out and balanced sandbox of specialist weapons DOES GET USE, enough too. In theory anyway, in practices no Halo has been perfect (consider Halo CE and its Needler...).
A problem with "no utility weapon" approach is that we get a bunch of clone weapons, a la COD. Or Halo 4, where a single weapon is still the best almost everywhere (the DMR).

Having a single utility weapon would be boring though, i think, not a fan of Halo CE after all (except some principles behind it).

Having something like BR/Carbine/Suppressed SMG as a trinity-utility weapons might work, BR/SMG starts with Carbine as map-pickup alternative. (No idea where to put the pistol. Perhaps a power weapon, har har, i absolutely don't want a rifle-pistol like CE had unless we got all-out.) EDIT Unfortunately, i can't actually figure out how the suppressed SMG would work in this scenario. Can't see it being anymore useful than the BR, as it would naturally lack headshot bonus.
In this scenario, the AR would be a superb CQB weapon, as it is meant to be in theory, so your SMG/AR scenario works.

But i think Halo 4 must not be repeated (too many "utility" weapons, loadouts), nor should Halo go near COD either.

That's why the proposed hit to shields. It'd be less of a sprint, more of a toggle between speed and toughness. Maybe even up the jump height as well, just make it about mobility?

As i said, interesting concept for the Sprint. But i'm still not keen on it, don't think it is really needed.
(BTW, Crysis 2 did have something akin to this with its armor and cloak modes, the armor slowed you down, the cloak had other drawbacks though not very big IIRC.)

 

[TriStateTryHard]

Can be fixed by doing what I stated earlier:

"My opinion:

Up the base movement speed a lot. Make it so sprinting is faster, but not enough to warrant really using it... at all (plus the penalties). It should be noticeably faster but not by much.

This way, all the people who need/want sprint get it and everybody else shouldn't feel penalized not using it ever.

Scratches that itch without screwing the other half over."

You have valid questions, but I seriously think you're arguing just for the sake of arguing now. There are plenty of options to look at here and you need to take a second to understand there are a lot of ways to approach the issues we've had in Halo's past (reach, 4).

Not really. If maps are enlarged, then simply running with your gun up is not a viable movement option anymore, as the distance between cover, and other such factors, will be tailored to suit sprint speeds.

How is forcing a player to choose between getting somewhere in a timely fashion and retaining the ability to defend himself good for Halo gameplay?

 

[VinFTW]

Not really. If maps are enlarged, then simply running with your gun up is not a viable movement option anymore, as the distance between cover, and other such factors, will be tailored to suit sprint speeds.

How is forcing a player to choose between getting somewhere in a timely fashion and retaining the ability to defend himself good for Halo gameplay?

Read it again please. Slowly.

 

[TriStateTryHard]

Read it again please. Slowly.

I read your solution. It's essentially "make sprint almost purely aesthetic and mostly useless in gameplay".

How is adding a mostly useless mechanic good for Halo gameplay?

 

[Granadier]

Kind of late, but if anyone wants anything added to the OT just let me know.

Name change to...

Halo |OT 21| This Is Not Your Grave, But You Are Welcome In It

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Like I said before, there always were trade-offs for the things I just mentioned. If a gameplay element has no trade-off, everyone will use it. Halo CE is the perfect example of a multiplayer component that does many things at no cost - resulting in a one-way gameplay route. Maximum speed comes at no cost - so you will not see anyone just touching that ministick for 50%. The pistol is strong in every situation. It just completely destroys all of the other elements in the game. All the multiplayer montages you can find from Halo CE show the same gameplay moments over and over again. Why? Well, because there is no room for other situations and all the other gameplay elements the game offers aren't as viable enough as they should be. That said, even an obviously unbalanced experience can be fun.

Was Halo CE fun? Fuck yes! Was its completely sandbox viable? Fuck no.

You are confusing the word, "balance" with the word, "redunant" when you say CE was unbalanced. No it just didn't have a bunch of redundant weapons. Why does everyone think balance means a large number of weapons that all do the same thing and the same amount of damage? Makes no sense to me.

Personally, I think CE montages are no different than other halo montages. You usually have a high percentage of sniping kills mixed in with bits of other game play. The pistol is strong but, to be fair, the CE sand box in general has a higher damage output. The rocket launcher and grenades immediately come to mind with their greater blast radius and unless you make your shots count, even an AR can mow you down pretty quickly. I like that if someone is trying to snipe me there is a chance I can pull off the not-this-time card with just the pistol. But seriously, seeing people pull off killtaculars in combat evolved was always something special. Double melee kills were a thing of beauty. Watching people manage kills while falling off a ledge or using a well placed grenade to pick up a weapon or to make an out of reach jump was impressive.

 

[Tawpgun]

Kind of late, but if anyone wants anything added to the OT just let me know.

vote for br's

 

[Altered Juice]

in CE do all weapons do the same amount of melee damage? i was playing on danger canyon(or infinity?) ctf. i was standing next to the tunnel guarding the flag, dude comes out of the tunnel and i whacked him and all it did was damaged his shields, he turns around and bitch slapped me and next thing i know is that im on the ground. also a few weeks ago i recall walking up to an afk person and melee'd him 3 times, he gets back to the controller, pistol whipped me and im dead.

edit: the mcc ce experience has been just inconsistent for me, i can see why there isn't a playlist for it.

 

[TheOddOne]

Kind of late, but if anyone wants anything added to the OT just let me know.

 

[TriStateTryHard]

You are confusing the word, "balance" with the word, "redunant" when you say CE was unbalanced. No it just didn't have a bunch of redundant weapons. Why does everyone think balance means a large number of weapons that all do the same thing and the same amount of damage? Makes no sense to me.

Whenever I hear someone say something like "Halo 4 balanced the primary weapons really well" all I can do is shake my head. They took a bunch of weapons that should have been dominating their own niche, and possessing their own unique killtime, and homogenized them. That's the opposite of how the weapons in an arena shooter should be designed. Everything should be unique. Everything should have a purpose.

 

[Woorloog]

in CE do all weapons do the same amount of melee damage? i was playing on danger canyon(or infinity?) ctf. i was standing next to the tunnel guarding the flag, dude comes out of the tunnel and i whacked him and all it did was damaged his shields, he turns around and bitch slapped me and next thing i know is that im on the ground. also a few weeks ago i recall walking up to an afk person and melee'd him 3 times, he gets back to the controller, pistol whipped me and im dead. the mcc ce experience has been just inconsistent for me, i can see why there isn't a playlist for it.

Melee attack speed is weapon dependent so melee DPS is not the same for sure. Not sure about the damage, i think Rocket Launcher at least has higher melee damage but i'm not 100% sure, may be mixing with later Halos where melee is almost certainly weapon, or weapon-class dependent.

Whenever I hear someone say something like "Halo 4 balanced the primary weapons really well" all I can do is shake my head. They took a bunch of weapons that should have been dominating their own niche, and possessing their own unique killtime, and homogenized them. That's the opposite of how the weapons in an arena shooter should be designed. Everything should be unique. Everything should have a purpose.

Except the weapons aren't even balanced, the DMR and AR are better than the other options in their classes, i think.

Also my keyboard just changed to US layout for no reason. WTF, what do i do to fix it.

 

[Plywood]

Name change to...

Halo |OT 21| This Is Not Your Grave, But You Are Welcome In It

ew lore

vote for br's

is there a poll?

-snip

you get one

 

[VinFTW]

I read your solution. It's essentially "make sprint almost purely aesthetic and mostly useless in gameplay".

How is adding a mostly useless mechanic good for Halo gameplay?

It's not. But we're fighting a losing battle, so why not add it for those who like it and make it non-essential for those who don't care for it.

But really, I don't think it'll hurt to have a faster travel option for when the situation isn't dangerous and make regular movement just as effective when in danger.

I still think a faster base movement speed will make most people happy if/when we can get in and try it.

 

[TriStateTryHard]

It's not. But we're fighting a losing battle, so why not add it for those who like it and make it non-essential for those who don't care for it.

But really, I don't think it'll hurt to have a faster travel option for when the situation isn't dangerous and make regular movement just as effective when in danger.

I still think a faster base movement speed will make most people happy if/when we can get in and try it.

I'm not against a faster movement option either. I am against a faster movement option that can only be used in one direction, that takes away my ability to attack, and that takes away my ability to begin recharging my shields.

 

[Woorloog]

It's not. But we're fighting a losing battle, so why not add it for those who like it and make it non-essential for those who don't care for it.

Such compromise design, what is almost like design-by-committee, is terrible design.
I'd suggest anyone who is not happy with the direction: 1) Says so, and 2) does not buy the game.

 

[Granadier]

- snip -

check your privilege Heath.

that there's sexual harassment. /s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rorvvpd4TS4

 

[VinFTW]

I'm not against a faster movement option either. I am against a faster movement option that can only be used in one direction, that takes away my ability to attack, and that takes away my ability to begin recharging my shields.

Well, I can see if they DO make the movement speed high enough at base movement, I won't ever feel the need to sprint unless I absolutely know I can.

Such compromise design, what is almost like design-by-committee, is terrible design.
I'd suggest anyone who is not happy with the direction: 1) Says so, and 2) does not buy the game.

You have to remember there are far more people who love sprint than people who do not. Hardcore community is always the minority regardless of whether we have the proof to prove sprint it bad for Halo. It's pretty selfish.

But I will be, for sure, posting my feedback throughout the Beta in a very mature, professional way. I think a good balance can be struck without cutting off a specific side of the sprint/nosprint argument.

 

[TriStateTryHard]

Such compromise design, what is almost like design-by-committee, is terrible design.

Halo needs a lone visionary with a passion for classic gameplay but the intelligence to evolve it in the right direction.

 

[-Ryn]

Geez leave to take a shower and a whole page of sprint talking goes by.

Disclaimer: I'm arguing that sprint isn't inherently bad for Halo. I don't think it works in all cases. However we don't seem to be getting a toggle so I'm just talking about it's potential for Halo.

Spoiler

CE was radical Klodeck

I saw nothing in Tootsi's post that indicated he thought the additions dumbed down Halo. Unless that was earlier?
By forced battle, i mean that the "victim" has to fight back, or be clever to get away. Out-with or out-fight the other, otherwise you're dead, as it should be. Sprint gives an easy way out. Too easy. It requires neither thought nor planning nor skill.

And maps... i can't recall an enlarged map that's been a good thing. Or bigger maps in general. Halo PC BTB maps were big, too big. I've always thought more compact BTB maps have usually been the better ones, with some exceptions (like Valhalla, though it isn't exactly big in the first place. Pretty sure Halo 4's variation is actually bigger... and worse in itself).

He was agreeing with TryHard that it dumbs down gameplay.

I want you to tell me how your average retreats go in Halo because most of the time the only retreating tactic I saw was "get wall between my face and their bullets". There were rarely times when some kickass maneuver was put into play. From neither me nor my opponent. Sprint is a mechanic that can be used offensively, defensively or for travel.
Especially now where it ties into the other abilities.

Some of my favorite BTB maps have been huge. Avalanche and Coagulation are a couple. There were some Reach and 4 DLC maps I enjoyed that were BTB as well. Though I can't really recall their names (hurray for no DLC playlist). I'd like to see how Halo plays without AA but still sprint though. We're finally getting that with 5.

--

TryHard, this one goes out to you buddy

Sprint does not suddenly turn Halo into a Run or Gun game. You can still duck and weave your way around while you shoot bad guys with your incredible skills just like previous Halo's. You don't EVER need to use sprint. Ever. It is completely optional. Regardless of the maps size, you can just choose to jog just like in every other Halo before 5.

Every. Other. Halo. Before.
All of them worked this way. You've never had to sprint. Though there have been plenty of times where I wished you could. Like when all of the vehicles are gone.

However if you are in a hurry and maybe want to take a different route depending on the map design, now you can sprint. Nobody is forcing you to. I've said it multiple times, if you can still shoot while you sprint, why would you ever stop? That's why you lower your gun. To balance it out. If you try to run away with sprint, you're shields take a hit, discouraging running away.

Should the base movement be higher? Based on what we've seen it definitely needs to be faster. When the beta drops be sure to emphasize this.

 

[TriStateTryHard]

Name a mechanic in Classic Halo that I don't HAVE to use if I want to succeed. There is none. That's why when you say things like "well you don't HAVE to Sprint" all I can do is shake my head because you are essentially admitting it is pointless bloat mechanic.

 

[Granadier]

Geez leave to take a shower and a whole page of sprint talking goes by.

Gotta bring your phone in with you in a baggy to keep on top of HaloGAF's heated discussions.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Halo needs a lone visionary with a passion for classic gameplay but the intelligence to evolve it in the right direction.

Suddenly, your post history makes a lot more sense.

Name a mechanic in Classic Halo that I don't HAVE to use if I want to succeed. There is none. That's why when you say things like "well you don't HAVE to Sprint" all I can do is shake my head because you are essentially admitting it is pointless bloat mechanic.

Driving.

 

[Woorloog]

You have to remember there are far more people who love sprint than people who do not. Hardcore community is always the minority regardless of whether we have the proof to prove sprint it bad for Halo. It's pretty selfish.

In my experience, sprint is not fun in any single game. I want a fun game. I don't fucking care what anyone else thinks.
Selfish? Of course it is. Wanting sprint (or ADS) is equally selfish.
So fucking what more people want it? Most people have no idea what is actually good for a certain design-concept (in this case, arena-shooter). Most people do not really think about its effect on the game. Most people never say anything and i'd say that means their voice, or the lack of it, means they can be disregarded, just like my vote in a democracy is because i don't vote, i lose the right to affect things if i'm not proactive.

As it currently stands, i'm going to quit Halo (well technically i have already). Sucks... but i hold my principles, and my definition of fun closer to my heart than my love for Halo.

 

[Woorloog]

Sprint does not suddenly turn Halo into a Run or Gun game. You can still duck and weave your way around while you shoot bad guys with your incredible skills just like previous Halo's. You don't EVER need to use sprint. Ever. It is completely optional. Regardless of the maps size, you can just choose to jog just like in every other Halo before 5.

Every. Other. Halo. Before.
All of them worked this way. You've never had to sprint. Though there have been plenty of times where I wished you could. Like when all of the vehicles are gone.

However if you are in a hurry and maybe want to take a different route depending on the map design, now you can sprint. Nobody is forcing you to. I've said it multiple times, if you can still shoot while you sprint, why would you ever stop? That's why you lower your gun. To balance it out. If you try to run away with sprint, you're shields take a hit, discouraging running away.

Should the base movement be higher? Based on what we've seen it definitely needs to be faster. When the beta drops be sure to emphasize this.

Sprint can't be ignored because "i don't want to use it". It still exist, others can use it, their playing AFFECTS MY PLAYING!

It is not optional. I can perhaps play without sprinting, i can do fine without it... But i probably won't be as good as others, because i'm handcapping myself.
Heck, i can ignore ADS or whatever other features in COD, do fine, but never ever as well as someone who does use everything in his disposal.
It is like using a sword in modern warfare because guns are dishonorable or some other BS like that. It does not end well.

 

[woodland]

Halo needs a lone visionary with a passion for classic gameplay but the intelligence to evolve it in the right direction.

If only we had the opposite of Sakurai when it came to gameplay ;\

 

[TriStateTryHard]

From someone who worked on CE:

"Put simply, less is more. Deciding that you’re going to have “less” of anything means that, by definition, whatever you choose to keep will automatically have more prominence."

 

[Woorloog]

From someone who worked on CE:

"Put simply, less is more. Deciding that you’re going to have “less” of anything means that, by definition, whatever you choose to keep will automatically have more prominence."

It is often a good principle.
Consider Starcraft 2's single player mechanics, where you choose from two upgrades or unit options. The choice does, in theory, matter quite a bit more than if there where 10 different choices with minimal variety (indeed, in such case it is likely one option is (clearly) better than others). (Do note that in practice the options are terribly balanced... but the theory behind them is very, very solid.)
EDIT Or consider Chess, which is rather simple boardgame, yet it is far, far deeper than many more complicated or complex games. Or Go, which is supposedly even deeper than Chess.

I do not agree with a small sandbox (it is too small, though not all maps have to use everything at once) of Halo CE, or some visual ideas (a rifle in the form of a pistol). But otherwise, the principles behind it are very... elegant.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Smash 64 > Melee + Brawl + Smash 4 + PM

EDIT: Posting clips for new page :b

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

The rope-a-dope.
The Wheelman.
The Wheelman 2: Thanks Obama.
The "I'm telling you guys, there are situations where you want to drop your CE Magnum."
The "I'm covering my teammates by controlling advantageous positions on the map."
The Opportunist.
The Saddening.
The "Well if the aim assist pushing my reticle away from the enemy is going to ruin my aiming, I'll just grab OS and use this lovely little Rocket people seem to be unaware of."
The one clip to rule them all.

Please follow :}

 

[VinFTW]

In my experience, sprint is not fun in any single game. I want a fun game. I don't fucking care what anyone else thinks.

Everybody has a right to what makes a game fun for them, but I have to disagree. BF4 w/o sprint would suck so much.

Selfish? Of course it is. Wanting sprint (or ADS) is equally selfish.
So fucking what more people want it? Most people have no idea what is actually good for a certain design-concept (in this case, arena-shooter).

You are right, most people don't know what's best for a game, but they know what's fun for them also. In the end they have to sell a game, and I won't be delusional to think that "fuck everyone I want no sprint" is a real scenario. Sprint CAN work. It just needs to be balanced and penalized, just right.

Most people do not really think about its effect on the game. Most people never say anything and i'd say that means their voice, or the lack of it, means they can be disregarded, just like my vote in a democracy is because i don't vote, i lose the right to affect things if i'm not proactive.

Good point, but I don't think it's a fair analogy. Most people who play Halo aren't on the boards online. Does that mean we should just say fuck them?

As it currently stands, i'm going to quit Halo (well technically i have already). Sucks... but i hold my principles, and my definition of fun closer to my heart than my love for Halo.

Kudos to you for holding your principles. Wish more people would do that about bad pre-order/DLC practices.

Answers in bold.

 

[TriStateTryHard]

Don't melee off respawn bro.

 

[Woorloog]

Answers in bold.

I have not seen single implementation of sprint where i truly like it, a single implementation of it where it is a fun gameplay mechanic in itself, a single game where sprint could not be replaced with either added movement speed or other things.
Even in a single player game like Skyrim, i detest sprint. Holy shit the decision to include it has caused other bad decisions and secondary effects clearly not taken into account in the game...
You say it can be balanced right... i think it can be thrown into a trash bin and replaced with other things that are much more interesting and better. (Well, almost always, in ARMA/Operation Flashpoint series it seems to work, but then those are simulations.)
It never adds anything to a game. All it does is to trade movement speed for arbitrary restrictions. I do not see that as a fun trade-off, especially since it always slows down games instead of, you know, speeding up it supposedly does.

Poodlestrike's concept of "toughness for omnidirectional-speed"-sprint has some merit but i question that trade-off as well, mostly because i see why not just add more base speed (and if necessary, increase the power of weapons or reduce toughness).

EDIT Sprint is not a choice. It is a switch, most often a temporary one, where you remove the ability to do things for a slight boost of speed, essentially merely a timesaver when traveling, and an escape route. I see no depth in that "choice", it is a fucking no-brainer.
A choice would be: "Do i take this heavy-short-range weapon, or do i keep this sniper?" Or "Do i use this risky but fast open route, or do i take the safe slow path?".

 

[VinFTW]

I have not seen single implementation of sprint where i truly like it, a single implementation of it where it is a fun gameplay mechanic in itself, a single game where sprint could not be replaced with either added movement speed or other things.
Even in a single player game like Skyrim, i detest sprint. Holy shit the decision to include it has caused other bad decisions and secondary effects clearly not taken into account in the game...
You say it can be balanced right... i think it can be thrown into a trash bin and replaced with other things that are much more interesting and better. (Well, almost always, in ARMA/Operation Flashpoint series it seems to work, but then those are simulations.)
It never adds anything to a game. All it does is to trade movement speed for arbitrary restrictions. I do not see that as a fun trade-off, especially since it always slows down games instead of, you know, speeding up it supposedly does.

Poodlestrike's concept of "toughness for omnidirectional-speed"-sprint has some merit but i question that trade-off as well, mostly because i see why not just add more base speed (and if necessary, increase the power of weapons or reduce toughness).

EDIT Sprint is not a choice. It is a switch, most often a temporary one, where you remove the ability to do things for a slight boost of speed, essentially merely a timesaver when traveling, and an escape route. I see no depth in that choice.
A choice would be: "Do i take this heavy-short-range weapon, or do i keep this sniper?" Or "Do i use this risky but fast open route, or do i take the safe slow path?".

Do you think the additions of thruster (which, I will say out loud, look awesome. Great evolution of Halo, IMO. Best part about 4 was thruster, glad they evolved it in a good way) can balance this negative trade-off? Do you think people will opt for thrusters more often than sprint as their primary/strategic movement option?

It could add some amazing depth to gameplay (and lead to some spectacular skill gaps/plays).


Edit:

https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/status/543580298311512066

Is this a new development?

 

[Granadier]

The rope-a-dope.
The Wheelman.
The Wheelman 2: Thanks Obama.
The "I'm telling you guys, there are situations where you want to drop your CE Magnum."
The "I'm covering my teammates by controlling advantageous positions on the map."
The Opportunist.
The Saddening.
The "Well if the aim assist pushing my reticle away from the enemy is going to ruin my aiming, I'll just grab OS and use this lovely little Rocket people seem to be unaware of."
The one clip to rule them all.

Please follow :}

You are vastly more knowledgeable about Halo than I.

 

[User 73706]

Kind of late, but if anyone wants anything added to the OT just let me know.

HaloGAF Civil War: The Movie

 

[Woorloog]

Do you think the additions of thruster (which, I will say out loud, look awesome. Great evolution of Halo, IMO. Best part about 4 was thruster, glad they evolved it in a good way) can balance this negative trade-off? Do you think people will opt for thrusters more often than sprint as their primary/strategic movement option?

It could add some amazing depth to gameplay (and lead to some spectacular skill gaps/plays).

As i have noted before, just about everything but ADS and sprint in Halo 5 look nice. From melee charges to ground-pound (provided their damages are tweaked properly)... and to lesser extent the thruster pack.

The TP has problems, many are similar to what the sprint have, i think. You trade temporary one-directional boost for a cooldown and possibly lack of control (like it does in Halo 4, or as evade does in Reach). As such, it would be not really any different from sprinting, beyond shorter duration and more limits. EDIT Perhaps this is better than sprinting as a map designed to accommodate normal movement+TP is likely to be smaller, faster-paced map than maps made for sprinting. Possibly.
Frankly, i do not like either games' TP/Evade as they are.

But i do think the TP has more potential as a gameplay mechanic: it can be extended to be truly omnidirectional, up, down, sideways, front-back, diagonally; something sprint is not by its very nature (2d, not 3d).
It can be made so that you can still keep firing while thrusting anywhere, which is not possible with the sprint in any implementation i've seen because there would be no downsides to NOT sprinting (beyond the limited sprint time, at which point it is just a method to artificially slow down the game really as everyone would hoard it for combat).
In such case, you trade a cooldown and the ability to control your movement (and ONLY that, looking anywhere still should work) to a massive boost, which may save your life, or buy you the half a second you need. Or it can throw you off the map, you can calculate the boost direction wrong. Or it can throw your own aim off.
It is often a high-risk/high-reward mechanic, in theory, unlike sprinting that is most often low-risk, with variable reward.

I see many more possibilities for the thruster pack... but i am not sold on it, for i have not yet seen a good implementation of it in Halos (and can't think of a single other game with it, though i guess UT2k4's dodge move comes close?).

EDIT a couple of small additions.

 

[VinFTW]

As i have noted before, just about everything but ADS and sprint in Halo 5 look nice. From melee charges to ground-pound (provided their damages are tweaked properly)... and to lesser extent the thruster pack.

The TP has problems, many are similar to what the sprint have, i think. You trade temporary one-directional boost for a cooldown and possibly lack of control (like it does in Halo 4, or as evade does in Reach). As such, it would be not really any different from sprinting, beyond shorter duration and more limits.
Frankly, i do not like either games' TP/Evade.

But i do think the TP has more potential as a gameplay mechanic: it can be extended to be truly omnidirectional, up, down, sideways, front-back, diagonally.
It can be made so that you can still keep firing while thrusting anywhere, which is not possible with the sprint in any implementation i've seen because there would be no downsides to NOT sprinting (beyond the limited sprint time).
In such case, you trade a cooldown and the ability to control your movement (and ONLY that, looking anywhere still should work) to a massive boost, which may save your life, or buy you the half a second you need. Or it can throw you off the map, you can calculate the boost direction wrong. Or it can throw your own aim off.
It is often a high-risk/high-reward mechanic, in theory, unlike sprinting that is most often low-risk, with variable reward.

I see many more possibilities for the thruster pack... but i am not sold on it, for i have not yet seen a good implementation of it in Halos (and can't think of a single other game with it, though i guess UT2k4's dodge move comes close?).

You make such good points it saddens me you won't be around to provide feedback for the Beta.

I think a lot of Halo 5 excites me, I hope they can make it work and balance it all.

Of course, I'm of a differing opinion in that I like some of the additions and think they CAN work, but I respect those who don't like the additions. It is, after all, subjective.

 

[Woorloog]

You make such good points it saddens me you won't be around to provide feedback for the Beta.

I think a lot of Halo 5 excites me, I hope they can make it work and balance it all.

Of course, I'm of a differing opinion in that I like some of the additions and think they CAN work, but I respect those who don't like the additions. It is, after all, subjective.

I won't be around for the beta because:
1) I do not have Xbone
2) I do not have money for the console nor the game
3) The MCC's issues would have driven me away anyway, though perhaps they will be fixed.
4) Xbone's shortcomings (low power compared to PS4, ugly design, questionable looking controller-redesign (bumbers)) do not help any, combined with its too high a price, in principle (drop 50€ from its base price and i'm good, once points 2 and 3 are no problem)

I would have loved to play Halo 2 in HD and new graphics really... heck, perhaps play all Halos 60fps and good resolution. Heck, perhaps i would have gotten over my hate of the glitches in Halo 2 (another thing i really, really oppose in principle is not fixing glitches when it is possible, for multiplayer games, and i really, really oppose exploiting them as well, no better than plain cheating).

If i could, i'd absolutely play the beta, even though i despise some things in it. I'd play it, tell 343i what sucks in it and then wait, wait and see.

 

[biosnake20]

Bulletin

 

[VinFTW]

I won't be around for the beta because:
1) I do not have Xbone
2) I do not have money for it
3) The MCC's issues would have driven me away anyway
4) Xbone's shortcomings do not help any, combined with its too high a price, in principle (drop 50€ from its price and i'm good, once points 2 and 3 are no problem)

I would have loved to play Halo 2 in HD and new graphics really... heck, perhaps play all Halos 60fps and good resolution. Heck, perhaps i would have gotten over my hate of the glitches in Halo 2 (another thing i really, really oppose in principle is not fixing glitches when it is possible, for multiplayer games, and i really, really oppose exploiting them as well, no better than plain cheating).

If i could, i'd absolutely play the beta, even though i despise some things in it. I'd play it, tell 343i what sucks in it and then wait, wait and see.

Fair enough, it's an underrated system, hope you can join the Xbone family and rejoin the Halo family someday.

 

[Woorloog]

Fair enough, it's an underrated system, hope you can join the Xbone family and rejoin the Halo family someday.

I doubt it. As things are currently, it is very likely i'll just quit gaming (or at very least getting new games and gaming devices even if i could afford them), because no one makes games i (think i) like, games i (think i) want to play.

There'd no real point in buying the console even if Halo 5 would be something i like if there's nothing else on Xbone. A gaming console for one game? Nope. Young me was insane enough to do that (360, Halo 3, though i did buy quite many games for in the end), like my brother still is (he bought PS4 essentially for Dragon Age Inquisition and "future potential").

EDIT It doesn't help i've gotten burned so many times over the last few years:
Dragon age franchise (Origins sucked overall, 2 was too unfinished, overall the world is awful), Mass Effect 3, Mechwarrior Online, Halo Reach, Halo 4 (in the end, i played it far less than other Halos), BF3 premium (base game was fine, i can't touch it anymore though)... uh, probably some others too. When you get disappointed by what you consider should be awesome for some many years in a row... well, i can't even be optimistic about the future of gaming.

 

[RoKKeR]

Hold up.

I just had a friend join my Halo 2 game and we can't watch the opening cutscenes together/"play" the opening two cutscenes together? Why not? Jumps me right to Cairo Station. Not that big of a deal but it's just odd.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Don't melee off respawn bro.

Damn habit.. Didn't the melee cancel the weapon switching sounds in the Xbox version? I used to think it did, but I tested it the other day in TMCC and it did nothing. Perhaps I never really tested it from another player's screen in the first place lol

 

[Madness]

Not that I blame them, but the bulletin tries to gloss over the state of Halo and MCC. Game is somewhat dead in the water with hardly anyone playing and it's still nowhere near fixed.

HCS week 1 over and I didnt even know about it, who played or what. Likewise for the Iron Games tournament. Hard for me to care about all this stuff when I'm disappointed no one on my friends list even attempts to play MCC anymore.

Was nice to see the updared audio for Halo 5. It does sound better but maybe it's just me, I don't like all the new beeps and shield recharging sounds, medal cues. Coupled with Spartan chatter, robotic steitzer, and if I'm on mic, just sounds like it'll be auditory overload.

Let's see if they can pull off H5 beta without any hiccups. Any problems are going to be so magnified.

 

[Booshka]

As i have noted before, just about everything but ADS and sprint in Halo 5 look nice. From melee charges to ground-pound (provided their damages are tweaked properly)... and to lesser extent the thruster pack.

The TP has problems, many are similar to what the sprint have, i think. You trade temporary one-directional boost for a cooldown and possibly lack of control (like it does in Halo 4, or as evade does in Reach). As such, it would be not really any different from sprinting, beyond shorter duration and more limits. EDIT Perhaps this is better than sprinting as a map designed to accommodate normal movement+TP is likely to be smaller, faster-paced map than maps made for sprinting. Possibly.
Frankly, i do not like either games' TP/Evade as they are.

But i do think the TP has more potential as a gameplay mechanic: it can be extended to be truly omnidirectional, up, down, sideways, front-back, diagonally; something sprint is not by its very nature (2d, not 3d).
It can be made so that you can still keep firing while thrusting anywhere, which is not possible with the sprint in any implementation i've seen because there would be no downsides to NOT sprinting (beyond the limited sprint time, at which point it is just a method to artificially slow down the game really as everyone would hoard it for combat).
In such case, you trade a cooldown and the ability to control your movement (and ONLY that, looking anywhere still should work) to a massive boost, which may save your life, or buy you the half a second you need. Or it can throw you off the map, you can calculate the boost direction wrong. Or it can throw your own aim off.
It is often a high-risk/high-reward mechanic, in theory, unlike sprinting that is most often low-risk, with variable reward.

I see many more possibilities for the thruster pack... but i am not sold on it, for i have not yet seen a good implementation of it in Halos (and can't think of a single other game with it, though i guess UT2k4's dodge move comes close?).

EDIT a couple of small additions.

You should mess around with Wired Reflexes in Shadowrun, it's exactly what you want for Thruster Pack.

Boost of speed in any direction, you boost in the direction you are moving, not aiming, so you can aim and shoot independent of your movement. No putting your gun down bullshit when you are using it either. It also boosts your jump height, can be combo'd with other abilities in Shadowrun, Gust+Wired for much bigger jumps, Wired+Teleport for a longer Teleport, Wired+Glider for a faster and longer Glide.

The tradeoff is that it takes a small chunk of health away when you use it, just having it equipped grants you a passive bonus of movement speed, reload speed and jump height. Then you can activate it as needed.

I trolled a while ago posting some Shadowrun gameplay that shows a little bit of what I am talking about.

http://www.twitch.tv/booshka/c/5499719
http://www.twitch.tv/booshka/c/5355449

 

[belushy]

Bulletin

Halo 5 info:

We will vote for stuff in the second and third weeks. One example is choosing what power weapon will be on the maps, and then in the third week choose one map or the other.

Also remember that a pro divulged that each week will have a different starting weapon (AR/Pistol 1st week, DMR 2nd week, BR 3rd week)

 

[Granadier]

HaloGAF Civil War: The Movie

My sides.

 

[Woorloog]

You should mess around with Wired Reflexes in Shadowrun, it's exactly what you want for Thruster Pack.

Boost of speed in any direction, you boost in the direction you are moving, not aiming, so you can aim and shoot independent of your movement. No putting your gun down bullshit when you are using it either. It also boosts your jump height, can be combo'd with other abilities in Shadowrun, Gust+Wired for much bigger jumps, Wired+Teleport for a longer Teleport, Wired+Glider for a faster and longer Glide.

The tradeoff is that it takes a small chunk of health away when you use it, just having it equipped grants you a passive bonus of movement speed, reload speed and jump height. Then you can activate it as needed.

I trolled a while ago posting some Shadowrun gameplay that shows a little bit of what I am talking about.

http://www.twitch.tv/booshka/c/5499719
http://www.twitch.tv/booshka/c/5355449

Hmm, interesting. If the goddamn Twitch would just work properly once without any trying... I see what you mean.
Though i will note that i did not say i want thruster packs, just made up stuff i thought might make it better. But i guess they are logical, already thought about extensions to the concept.

(I did actually activate Shadowrun for 360 back when it was free in... September? But i never bothered to download it (lack of HDD space didn't help). Didn't have will to learn a new game then, and now my brother's PS4 is hooked up on the TV (only one HDMI-in).)

 

[-Ryn]

Gotta bring your phone in with you in a baggy to keep on top of HaloGAF's heated discussions.

Well the shower turned out to be for not anyway.
Started biking to a potential job and a mile in got a massive surprise shower from the sky. Ended up biking 5 miles in it. The manager laughed. Oregon weather. Woooo...

Spoiler

*shiver*

Sprint

You make some solid points and while I disagree that sprint doesn't work, I can respect what you're getting at.

I hope you don't quit gaming dude. There's a lot of cool stuff coming out for consoles and PC. Though I'm not really sure what you're looking for in a game. Is it a genre? Type of gameplay? Challenge? Story?

 

[Plywood]

-snip

WHAT

vote for br's

if only

HaloGAF Civil War: The Movie

Done.