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[Sephzilla]

That is exactly the way i feel about smash 64. The physics felt more meaty as well as connecting hits against players felt more substantial. I also think it did a better job of balancing large slow characters against smaller quick characters. The game played a bit slower, but benefited from the pacing as well. In subsequent games, it seems like speed trumps everything else, at least in my opinion.

Pretty much. Melee on made Smash a bit more of a speed oriented game.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Spectator mode in Halo 5 sounds sweet.

And Josh's statement about sprint over at BeyondEnt all but confirms a much larger BTB multiplayer mode in H5G.

I'm getting pretty excited for the beta.

 

[Sephzilla]

Is there a reason they aren't setting the game timer to the proper time limit for each game?

 

[Haruko]

Is there a reason they aren't setting the game timer to the proper time limit for each game?

I believe for CTF/Bomb games, they use the excess time for Sudden Death.

 

[belushy]

Here is the link to Josh's talk about sprint. Beyond post

Also he said in the post they are doing BTS stuff next week. Finally gonna see those other maps and weapons I hope

 

[RowdyReverb]

Spectator mode in Halo 5 sounds sweet.

I agree. It's on the same level as the original Theater Mode announcement for H3 IMO. Hopefully they make it really easy to do. For instance, the Twitch App should let you switch to H5 and instantly start spectating the players in the stream you were watching.

It also sounds like there could be room for abuse with this system. Suppose you had a spectator in your game giving the enemy team call outs via party chat. Perhaps it's restricted to friends on XBL or spectators can't use any view aside from first-person, but it would be really cool to have free-cam view in a match. I'm really curious how they'll handle the logistics of this feature.

Edit: Nvm, saw the delay info.

 

[DJ Gunner]

H3 AR slayer on High Ground just got picked over CE Prisoner and H2A BRs on Lockout.

Halo is dad to me.

 

[Tawpgun]

H3 AR slayer on High Ground just got picked over CE Prisoner and H2A BRs on Lockout.

Halo is dad to me.

The halo community deserves a dad game if this is the way they vote

 

[klodeckel]

New H5 beta info from this interview:

• You can spectate the games from all of your friends live at any time. Like in other competetive spectator modes there is a delay so that you can not "cheat" with a friend abusing the spectator mode.
• Spectator mode is using the dedicated server, which means the spectator is free in his decisions about spec cams etc.
• Confirmed that the Beta is coming as planned at 29th Dec.
• The beta will have interactive votes that determine the content unlocked in the beta next
• Each week of the beta they will unlock new maps & modes (in total 7 maps and 3 modes)
• There was some new footage in which hit soundmarkers were gone / deactivated

 

[belushy]

Probably won't make it into the beta, but I hope spectator mode has a ghost cam so you can go through walls and shit.

 

[klodeckel]

In addition, here is a very interesting post by Josh about H5 and design decisions:

Thanks for being patient guys, it was a late night.

I’m going to try my best to explain some of the thinking behind the inclusion of sprint and other abilities so that you can better understand where we are coming from. Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light. I should also mention that while I am going to try and summarize a bunch of shared thoughts and experiential goals from our team, it’s impossible for me to represent each individual team member’s perspective. We spend countless hours discussing and debating everything that goes into the game as a natural part of development and it’s tough to do justice to that ongoing discourse here.

Now, to take a quick step back and talk more generally about goals for H5G and Spartan Abilities…

One of the fundamental goals that we start with for the game is “immersion,” which I’ll just use as shorthand for creating and maintaining an active sense of belief on the part of the player in everything that they are experiencing. This unpacks to a lot more complexity than I am going to dive into, but at the most basic level we are trying to simulate the act of a bipedal hero moving through an environment from first person perspective. We want to convince the player that this illusion is true. We start with questions like: what would it feel like to move? To shoot? Upon that foundation we consider the actions and capabilities that should be available to a Spartan on the battlefield. What are the unique capabilities available to a Spartan? How should those feel? This is based on established lore and our individual perceptions. To achieve an immersive experience, we first ground our portrayal of actions in what it feels like a human being in our world (that’s the common lens that we all use as reference) and then we adapt those actions to reflect what it would be like to be a kick-ass Spartan wrapped in Mjolnir assault armor.

The desire to maximize immersion goes beyond just the portrayal of actions themselves and extends to the possibility space that should exist for players within the moment-to-moment of combat. What options or choices would I as a Spartan expect to have within combat? Gunplay is obviously paramount, and we focus a crazy amount of time on nailing the feel of firing the weapons in our game to make sure that they have weight and impact. In addition to rock-solid gunplay, with H5G we are striving to provide a focused suite of mobility-based actions that reinforce the experience of fighting as a Spartan. We specifically chose to focus on mobility because it was the part of the Spartan experience that we felt was the most under-developed and had the most promise to deliver a fresh and exciting new play experience for Halo. It’s something that we started talking about midway through Halo 4 and it became a foundational part of the design intention for Halo 5.

We want each of the new abilities to expand the possibility space for competitive combat in meaningful ways. They should provide players with new tools to create on the battlefield and present interesting choices on both sides of an encounter. At the same time we don’t want these tools to result in imbalance or chaos. When Halo is working well there is structure and flow to the combat, with a unique back-and-forth, move / counter-move experience that provides depth and opportunities to enhance the skill gap between players. That’s what we’ve been focusing on for Halo 5 MP.

Some of the Spartan Abilities are core mobility options like Clamber, Sprint and Thruster that allow for more fluid and natural movement through the environment. They should augment combat in interesting ways, when used effectively. Other abilities are offensive in nature and more oriented toward “crowd-pleaser” moves (like Charge or Ground Pound) that provide a big punctuation point in a match. At a competitive level you are not going to see many GPs attempted in close games because the risk is too high. But when someone does go for it and manages to land it, they deliver a big wow moment that pays off both for them and the viewers of the match.

Going back to sprint… why have it in Halo?

As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
Another important consideration for uses to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.

Anyway, sorry for rambling a bit. I started writing and this got long. Hopefully there are some nuggets of sense in there. TLDR; sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat, it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of, it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well, it is being carefully balanced, it’s something that most Halo players expect, and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role.

I will let you all be the judges as you play the beta but I believe that we are doing a much better job of designing the maps around the core mechanics with Halo 5. A big reason for that is the fact that we nailed down the core focus for gameplay early. When we start releasing some of the behind-the-scenes footage from the development of Halo 5 next week, you will see that we’ve been playing with this core set of abilities for the better part of two years. This has allowed us enough time to refine and iterate on map design with the abilities in mind. The other big change has been the addition of our internal pro team. They have been invaluable in helping us to identify issues with mechanics and map design that become obvious at the highest level of skilled play, and we’ve had the time and focus to react to that feedback.

Finally I want you to know that we do listen to you guys. As mentioned, I lurk here often to read through the forums. So do a lot of people at 343, particularly our MP and Sandbox teams. Keep in mind that there are many different inputs that we consider when we make decisions about core aspects of the game. Literally none of those are corporate hacks up the chain. Not all decisions will be ones that you agree with. Nevertheless, I appreciate the passion that we all share as Halo fans, even when we may disagree. I will be in here reading your feedback throughout the beta and I hope that you guys will share your thoughts when you play. Who knows, I may even keep posting… depending on how this goes. ;-)

/Josh

Source

It's interesting that some of the sentences he wrote pretty much sound exactly like my words I posted here yesterday.

Especially this part:

Some of the Spartan Abilities are core mobility options like Clamber, Sprint and Thruster that allow for more fluid and natural movement through the environment. They should augment combat in interesting ways, when used effectively. Other abilities are offensive in nature and more oriented toward “crowd-pleaser” moves (like Charge or Ground Pound) that provide a big punctuation point in a match. At a competitive level you are not going to see many GPs attempted in close games because the risk is too high. But when someone does go for it and manages to land it, they deliver a big wow moment that pays off both for them and the viewers of the match.

So yeah ... That's that.

Oh and:

Another important consideration for uses to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building.

I think this is the first time we have an official word on a "large MP experience". This has to be what Kampfheld was talking about.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

In addition, here is a very interesting post by Josh about H5 and design decisions:



It's interesting that some of the sentences he wrote pretty much sound exactly like my words I posted here yesterday.

Especially this part:

So yeah ... That's that.

Oh and:

I think this is the first time we have an official word on a "large MP experience". This has to be what Kampfheld was talking about.

Only there is nothing fluid about sprint, especially if you can't fire a gun while sprinting. It's just a jerky stop and go mess to me. Oh and klodeckel = Josh confirmed! lol just kidding.

 

[Overdoziz]

One of the fundamental goals that we start with for the game is “immersion,”

welp

The desire to maximize immersion

welp

As a Spartan

welp

 

[Granadier]

Where was that?

edit: 343, make everyone happy and add in functionality for game modes to disable all Spartan Abilities. Then Forge maps can be tailor made for no-sprint.

edit2:

"it’s something that most Halo players expect"

-> TLDR: Sprint is there because it has to be for the larger audience. No getting around that. 343 is trying hard to balance it so that the hardcore audience is appeased as well.

edit3: I am really glad they are being open about their design reasonings when it comes to Halo 5.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

GG Gunner, we could use another player if you want to join.

Funknown, even if we may disagree with Halo from time to time, you're permanently good people for spitting the truth that Smash 64 is the best

64 > Melee?

Explain.

I could explain, but I could also show you videos ;]

Teams in 64 are the most fun of any Smash because of the hitstun and fluid movement thanks to z canceling. It feels so good, and it's very punishable.

 

[User 73706]

welp

welp

welp

visceral integrated cinematic gravita setpiece encounters

 

[tootsi666]

There's nothing wrong with immersion in non-competive/single player games. Halo is a competive arena shooter. Who cares about immersion?

 

[NobleGundam]

In addition, here is a very interesting post by Josh about H5 and design decisions:


Source

It's interesting that some of the sentences he wrote pretty much sound exactly like my words I posted here yesterday.

Especially this part:

So yeah ... That's that.

Oh and:

I think this is the first time we have an official word on a "large MP experience". This has to be what Kampfheld was talking about.

You think bcuz Josh says so that's that, huh?
You're wrong. There will be a way to abuse it.

 

[Granadier]

When we start releasing some of the behind-the-scenes footage from the development of Halo 5 next week,

Footy coming out next week. Color me excited.

 

[klodeckel]

You think bcuz Josh says so that's that, huh?
You're wrong. There will be a way to abuse it.

You have an opinion of how things will run, I have an opinion on how things will run. There is no "you are wrong" at this point. That's that.

 

[Booshka]

There's nothing wrong with immersion in non-competive/single player games. Halo is a competive arena shooter. Who cares about immersion?

I'm immersed in the competitive multiplayer, for the sport of it. I don't give a shit about actually believing I am a Spartan fighting in Space. I think of it in terms of competing against my opponents, and working with my team to win, that's where my immersion comes from.

Whatever Josh is on about is some nonsense.

 

[NobleGundam]

You have an opinion of how things will run, I have an opinion on how things will run. There is no "you are wrong" at this point. That's that.

You are wrong when I bolded "That's that". So yeah that's that. If I remember correctly you posted before defending GP thinking it won't be abused, right?

 

[Duji]

The slower movement speed and short jump height in Halo Reach really immersed me into the world of a Spartan III (which is essentially a shittier version of the Spartan IIs we played in the older games).

 

[klodeckel]

You are wrong when I bolded "That's that". So yeah that's that. If I remember correctly you posted before defending GP thinking it won't be abused, right?

What are you trying to say me? I never defended anything. I only said that GP won't be a much-used ability in pro play because the risk is just too high.

 

[Granadier]

You have an opinion of how things will run, I have an opinion on how things will run. There is no "you are wrong" at this point. That's that.

Actually you are wrong in thinking that something won't be abused.

If there exists the smallest chance of abuse, it will be abused. That's a fact of life.

Just look at competitive CS if you need convincing.

The slower movement speed and short jump height in Halo Reach really immersed me into the world of a Spartan III (which is essentially a shittier version of the Spartan IIs we played in the older games).

This guy.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Pretty much what I figured. I do actually appreciate the immersion, but even more I like that they're being straightforward about it. Sprint is in because the majority of the playerbase expects and wants it. The question, then, is how do we make it work.

 

[klodeckel]

Actually you are wrong in thinking that something won't be abused.

If there exists the smallest chance of abuse, it will be abused. That's a fact of life.

Just look at competitive CS if you need convincing.

Where did I state that things can not be abused? I never made such a statement rofl ... Of course things can be abused. But what does this add to the discussion? There is always on everything a chance of abusing ... This has nothing to do with Halo.

 

[The Real Napsta]

how do you LAN in this game? I don't see the option. Yes I know you need to be connected to LIVE to use it.

 

[TheSyde]

how do you LAN in this game? I don't see the option. Yes I know you need to be connected to LIVE to use it.

its just like xbl customs, start a lobby, inv people

 

[biosnake20]

At least we know that we'll be getting new H5 videos next week.

 

[Granadier]

Where did I state that things can not be abused? I never made such a statement rofl ... Of course things can be abused. But what does this add to the discussion? There is always on everything a chance of abusing ... This has nothing to do with Halo.

"That's that" in regards to his statement on Ground Pound.

All of the Spartan Abilities are going to be abused. Hopefully GP gets abused enough that they remove it.

 

[Booshka]

God I love this Tournament's twitch chat, it's so fucking dumb.

#weback.. on the dashboard

One of my favorite responses after the game had to be reset.

 

[Poodlestrike]

"That's that" in regards to his statement on Ground Pound.

All of the Spartan Abilities are going to be abused. Hopefully GP gets abused enough that they remove it.

How are you defining abused, though? Ground Pound strikes me as a risk/reward kind of deal, not the sort of thing people can find success by spamming.

 

[Granadier]

How are you defining abused, though? Ground Pound strikes me as a risk/reward kind of deal, not the sort of thing people can find success by spamming.

I've never been one to be inventive enough to figure out ways to abuse game mechanics, but I'm certain there will be others that will find a way.
So to answer your question, I have no idea.

 

[The Real Napsta]

its just like xbl customs, start a lobby, inv people

do all console need to be connected to live or just one?

 

[Tawpgun]

While I don't agree with the design decisions being made I REALLY appreciate Josh posting about the reasonings and intent like that. It's super refreshing given the usual silence from the 343 dev team. It sounded really genuine. Hope it keeps up.

 

[klodeckel]

It's super refreshing given the usual silence from the 343 dev team. It sounded really genuine. Hope it keeps up.

+1

 

[Granadier]

Hit ping gone from the beta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHC7c-bksDw&app=desktop

 

[Kibbles]

When/where did they release new beta footage with the changes?

 

[belushy]

When/where did they release new beta footage with the changes?

The bulletin video this week. link

 

[Poker Face]

Hit ping gone from the beta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHC7c-bksDw&app=desktop

that really didn't need a video lol

 

[Welfare]

That fact that Josh actually gave us a reason for sprint, I'm k.

And footage next week is cool.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Hit ping gone from the beta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHC7c-bksDw&app=desktop

Lmao, what that kid does for views

 

[klodeckel]

Lmao, what that kid does for views

What has he done to you that you call him a "kid"?

 

[Granadier]

klodeckel, you're defending and slrping too hard. clean yourself up.

 

[The Real Napsta]

What has he done to you that you call him a "kid"?

You one of those that find the word "kid" insulting? Oh well.

klodeckel, you're defending and slrping too hard. clean yourself up.

lmao

 

[klodeckel]

klodeckel, you're defending and slrping too hard. clean yourself up.

I only asked a question.

Your definition of "defending" is really weird. Everyone just being a bit positive is "defending"?

Spoiler

"lmao"

 

[Ampoc]

I only asked a question.

Your definition of "defending" is really weird. Everyone just being a bit positive is "defending"?

Spoiler

"lmao"

They just enjoy talking, who cares about them bro.

But to comment on that video, just because they removed one sound doesn't mean they're "listening" in it's entirety. If they were listening Halo 5 would be a lot different than it is right now. I'll wait until I have the beta in my hands to make full judgement though.

 

[Madness]

But what Josh should understand by now, it was probably one of the most criticized aspects of those games. Sprint has been lambasted nonstop for 4 years. They know this, and so rather than remove it and increase base movement like a lot of people want, they want another band-aid solution that will keep it. Oh hey, don't worry, if you aren't at full speed, being shot will immediately make you stop, don't worry, if you try and run away, your shield may not recharge.

That doesn't mean 99% of people won't still sprint everywhere, just look at the gameplay vids, they're sprinting nonstop, because other games just have created the need to want to do it. Just like without ADS, people have it tough with click/zoom. What does our feedback matter when they've basically said it's going to stay? And I'm almost certain, those who like sprint will be even more vocal that they can't recharge shields, die too much.

 

[FyreWulff]

The first Halo game to have sprint also had the option to remove Sprint entirely from the game. An option that disappeared for Halo 4.

Give players the option to disable sprint. "But it's a base mechanic!" Yeah, you can disable jumping already. Sprint isn't that special to get an exemption.