NobleGundam
Banned
This freaking right here.
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Halo |OT 21| Battle is the Great Redeemer | LIVE. DIE. RESPAWN.
- Thread starter Plywood
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***MCC Throwdown is tonight***
My lobby will be open around 930pm EST. If you would like to please send me a message on XBL (xCliQuEx)
See you on the battlefield!
If anyone is free right now I have a forge map and gametype I want to make sure is working. Could use one person to help me test it.
NobleGundam
Banned
But why not increase base movement speed , adjust TP, Charge, and minimize maps to compensate for players to get into combat faster?
I can see it would be fine for larger maps and objective gametypes to help with the flow of for ex. BTB, Invasion, and etc.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Disagree. "All or nothing" is kind of a terrible way to go about designing a game, honestly, and if they can actually create a version of sprint that works with Halo, more power to them.
Not sure this is a version that works with Halo. In the end, you're going to end up with something that really makes no one happy. You think those who want sprint like the fact that unless they're at top speed being shot will cancel their sprint, or the fact their shields aren't recharging? And you think people against sprint will be happy that maps are still larger than they need to be, that people are still going to sprint everywhere 99% of the time etc.
I fully expect they'll eventually drop the shield recharge penalty from sprint altogether. Two games should show sprint hasn't worked in Halo, but hey, if they need yet another game to see it, more power to them. It has to be one or the other.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
OdysseusVA
Banned
You're onto something
Poodlestrike
Banned
Honestly? Yes, I kinda do. Or, at least, I don't think it'll seriously hamper their ability to enjoy the game. Some people just need that feedback loop from activating Sprint; the particulars are not (from what I've seen) terribly important. Limiting it to a purely out-of-combat tool is fine by me.
And, do you really not see the contradiction between saying that sprint is too restricted for fans of it to be comfortable and that it's going to be used 99% of the time?
Well I'm meaning to say they won't be happy with it. How many people who hate mechanics still use them? I hated armor lock with a passion, and yet I abused the hell out of it because I could. I liken it to people who hated bloom still playing Reach.
My point being, that in the end, you end up with something that either side is probably not going to like. I can already picture it clear in my mind, everyone will be sprinting regardless of the band-aid nerf.
They need the Halo name. Oni: Guardians won't sell as much as Halo. Just like Modern Warfare 2 still kept Call of Duty.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Grappling Hooooooooooooooooooook
v
User 73706
Banned
You do that and you get Destiny.
Or Murder Miners.
Or Not Halo: The GrizzNKev Wars: Pass Me The Butter.
Or Project Liveclamber.
Good to see the reasoning behind design decisions. Transparency feels good.
Since you can be knocked out of sprint if your not at full speed it seems that it won't be an instant run away button anymore. So hurray and all that jazz.
He also confirmed that it's entirely possible they'll add a toggle for ADS after the beta so keep your fingers crossed.
Since you can be knocked out of sprint if your not at full speed it seems that it won't be an instant run away button anymore. So hurray and all that jazz.
Frankie said a while ago that the importance of options are a lesson they learned from Halo 4.
He also confirmed that it's entirely possible they'll add a toggle for ADS after the beta so keep your fingers crossed.
Clamber love confirmed
The Real Napsta
Member
You ever play Nightfire's MP? I found it enjoyable.
Grappling hooks improve everything they are in. That's just how they do.
I like this. I think I'm sold. If there's a mechanic delay between sprinting and pulling up your weapon, then I think it's a fair trade. This will give advantage to those not sprinting. It's a choice. I like it.
My question is...this 343 guy (sorry dont know who he is, nor do I care) is posting on a fucking video game forum...very niche at that (I'm a member of it also, it's mostly old-school MLG community members who created it), why is this not a official 343 blog posting?
Reason I say this is because when a dev explains things like this, it is very valuable to me as a fan. It educates me on their thought process. It takes away my assumptions and stereotypes. I gives truth.
So....why limit this truth and education to the fans to some niche forum no one is barely going to know about/read?
(by the way, this is no offense to Team Beyond Entertainment, so please don't go there)
anyone share this feeling? I can't be the only one.
Poodlestrike
Banned
It's because the 343 blog is much more official. Everything that goes up there has to go through the PR guys. On a forum, they can be a lot less formal (though, I would like to see some version of the post make it onto Waypoint).
Can't really say. You'd think they'd put this kind of stuff up there.
I also really enjoy when they shed light on internal goings. Even when I don't agree with a design decision, it's nice to know what the reasoning was behind it. This might just be me but I liked that he clarified none of their decisions are based on some corporate higher ups. Feels good.
Really though this kind of thing deserves to be on the front page of their site. Most people appreciate straight up, no bullshit, real talk.
I think when he explained sprint as an offensive and defensive ability, I got it, I really did, and like my previous post, I was sold on that.
As I kept reading, he got to the part where he said, "it's what players expect"...well fuck them. Seriously.
As a designer, you cannot design for what's expected, you have to design for what you passionately feel is good design.
I work in oil and gas for a very large firm that designs offshore rigs. If our designers sat at their desks designing cookie-cutter oil rigs...how would that make us good? Instead, we have designers/engineers that think outside the cookie-cutter design and think, how can we design a unique product for our client to meet their needs? How do we present them a valued product that we feel passionately about?
To me, 343 is just reading some instructions from MSFT corporate, and they're designing accordingly.
If sprint ends up being truly balanced, then yay, I might actually enjoy it, but my fucking god...when a designer sits on a forum and writes, "it's what players expect these days"....why?????? Why are you giving in? Where's the innovation? Where's the originality?
It's like 343 started Halo 5 by saying, "okay guys, so we've been instructed by MSFT to study Call of Duty Advanced Warfare and start from there. How can we incorporate the latest greatest COD elements into Halo 5?" "After we do that, let's open up discussion for new ideas...they may or may not make it into the final build..."
I like the informal interaction better. The devs are going to where the communities are and engaging directly. Wouldn't you rather have two way communication in various forums, as opposed to just one way sharing official, filtered PR thoughts/reactions bulletin board style on Waypoint or something?
Obviously as hard core fans we want/need all the details instantly, but I don't think this was important enough to officially talk about, I think those will come in the Halo 5 pre and post launch ViDoc's. Like this is the reason we wanted these new Spartan Abilities etc. This is just casually engaging a small subset of the community that has a larger reach. And it works, almost every Halo community has read Josh's post, and they didn't need to make it official per se.
Obviously as hard core fans we want/need all the details instantly, but I don't think this was important enough to officially talk about, I think those will come in the Halo 5 pre and post launch ViDoc's. Like this is the reason we wanted these new Spartan Abilities etc. This is just casually engaging a small subset of the community that has a larger reach. And it works, almost every Halo community has read Josh's post, and they didn't need to make it official per se.
RowdyReverb
Member
I used to love both of these games! My brother and I would just play and hunt for the plentiful bugs and glitches. Basically doing unpaid QA work
I will forever remember this explanation of why Sprint is in Halo.
So...core halo fans can basically fuck off. This is like Smash Brawl...when the designer said, random tripping was so the game would be more fun for players not good at the game.
Fuck me man. This is what game design has succumbed to? This is what Halo has succumbed to?'
EDIT: all the shit he said before that can be thrown out the window essentially...this quote of his is basically the reason, the sole reason, sprint is in Halo.
Because it's expected. Period.
Well, I guess we can mark it down that ADS in Halo too because "it's expected".
Fuck man, why can't Jonathan Blow design Halo...oh wait, I know why...because it would need hints and he won't agree to that.
The hand-holding continues.
User 73706
Banned
I'm sorry dude, but I had to tune out once you revealed you were the Bungie forums "FUCK YOU FRANKLIN O'DINKLE" wahhhhhhmbulance guy.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
you tellin' me a billion dollar franchise is trying to appeal to the widest demographic possible
whoa
whoa
Really? Because I told the truth about the BR spread and the bullet refunding? I essentially made Lukems write an update about the BR telling truth about its design. You're gonna shun me because I sought out truth about the design of a fucking video game?
Are you a sheep?
A good game doesn't have to. A good game just receives it. Because it's good.
Um...
I guess I'd like to see both.
Having the devs come over to these forums and just talk to us is pretty great. The two way aspect of it being really nice. I'd like it if they posted small dev discussions on their own site as well. Ultimately though you're right. It'll likely eventually be brought up in later ViDocs or something.
ayy lmao
Also by this logic...Minecraft would have NEVER been created. regardless of how you feel about Minecraft...Notch was just suppose to appeal to the widest demo possible...the game would have fucking sucked.
NobleGundam
Banned
I agree with most of what you're saying but adding CoD: AW to compare design reasons for H5 I believe isn't right. I feel like they honestly took fans input to better halo's movement "TP" being a significant core focus. It's just by coincidence that the two have similar mechanics/animations/design.
But yeah Sprint being "expected" is poorly explained for design reasons. And honestly, the minority of fans know that 343 wants to caterwagon sprint to the masses.
But a non-sprint gametype & playlist or perhaps a toggle feature would, imho, make me really happy to have in future halo games including H5. They purposely ignored doing it for H4 to push fans playing a hybrid classic/infinity playlist thinking "This is about as far as we'll go to cater veteran players for a classic gametype to have them evolve to the core focus regardless their preferences" and it showed their ignorance.
They admitted their faults. Good.
I really do wish they listen this time and they are, but something like Sprint in H5 MP needs to been tuned more rather then no shield recharge while sprinting but at the same time not an even more redundant mechanic/reason to go about in bigger maps. Don't try to cater in designing MP to fit the lore. "We want to make Spartans feel like real Spartans" that's cool but how far will you go in further designing MP to cater that vision? Halo 4's MP is a great example. Infinity's "Ground Breaking" War Games lol
ViewtifulJC
Banned
you're telling me an idiosyncratic little indie game might have different design philosophies compared to a proven billion dollar AAA franchise built to appeal to a wide potential audience
whoa
Give me this one please with a double order of butter.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Bahrer Machine
It's going to come to a point where the only thing to save 2v2/4v4 Halo will be
Combat Evolved 2
That's right. Would good is innovation in video game design if everyone is just going to suck balls and cater to the trends?
Halo has one thing going for itself, there isn't a single sci-fi shooter out there featuring a robot-like character (maybe you could argue crysis but that game is fucking balls, it's COD cloned) with a story behind it featuring humans vs aliens, and a lore that is incredibly greater than any COD story or any other People Magazine cover story game. Halo is Halo, there's literally NOTHING like it.
So why try to be like every other game out there? Why???? Is some suit at MSFT pressing the designers to give-in? Hell, we saw what happened to the Medal of Honor franchise when EA tried to create their own COD clone. Battlefield is a fucking joke now. COD is on the decline...Activision is probably having over-nighters trying to figure out how to fix the formula.
So why does Halo need to dip itself into this crap?
There's a reason why people are in dire love of Halo 2 Annv and want MCC to work as a whole...because it is PROPER Halo. It's the Halo we know and love. It's CORE Halo.
We just want it to work.
And guess what, once MCC works...Halo 5 will be a joke. Seriously...why give up a working MCC collection to go over to a game that we KNOW we're going to already hate?
Halo CE continues to be lanned by small groups TODAY. Counter-strike continues to be core CS and played by thousands, tens of thousands. Counter-strike knows it has no one that can compete against it. CS doesn't need to be COD, it doesn't need to be anything other than itself.
As long as MCC continues to work, Halo CE through MCC will always be played, for years and years from now.
EDIT: my apologies if my grammar is shit, I'm nine beers in right now
Cheers folks!Poodlestrike
Banned
Like hell it does. Quality does not equal either breadth of appeal or sales. AAA games are, quite simply put, too big to be developed in a vacuum. They need to consider potential demographics, because otherwise they'd just be too risky to fund.
Halo has history...how can it not be funded?
It's not like they're re-inventing Halo from scratch...though I'd welcome that.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Halo has been taking ideas from other video games/movies/books/etc since Halo CE.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
To reply to that Holmes post again, copying from elsewhere...
My main concern is the abomination that is the new zoom. AKA the eyesore with zero merit.
Seriously, start explaining that one.
My main concern is the abomination that is the new zoom. AKA the eyesore with zero merit.
Seriously, start explaining that one.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Speaking more generally, though it's true even in Halo's case. The shooter fandom went through a massive shift after Advanced Warfare, and they can't afford to ignore it entirely. Nor should they! There's nothing wrong from taking inspiration from popular sources.
What they did in 4 (and to a lesser extent, Reach) was the wrong way to go about it. They excised key parts of the Halo... essence if you will. Reach ditched equal starts, and 4 made them even less equal and compounded the problem with ordinance drops.
Speak for yourself.And guess what, once MCC works...Halo 5 will be a joke. Seriously...why give up a working MCC collection to go over to a game that we KNOW we're going to already hate?
EDIT: my apologies if my grammar is shit, I'm nine beers in right now
I may not know if I'll like Halo 5 but I do like most of what I've seen so far. This could very well be my favorite Halo if 343 doesn't have any surprise bullshit. For the record, I hated Halo 4. It's a decent game now but still on the bottom of my list.
What kind of beer?
Probably just something they thought might grab more attention. Or some of them actually liked the idea. Regardless I'll be fine as long as there's a toggle.
Has it been definitively answered as to whether we can have click/zoom back for DMR/BR or are we forced to use scope for all zoom shots? And I don't mean whether we can click to trigger ADS instead of LT but whether I can get classic style zoom as opposed to the iron sights in middle of visor.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Hasn't been confirmed, no. We'll see how it goes. I'm half expecting there to be scope customization, with "no sights" as one of the options. Make everyone happy.
Frankie confirmed that it is a possibility that the full game will have the option to go back to classic zoom. However it's (at least mostly) dependent on feedback from the beta.
User 73706
Banned
There are better ways to handle criticism than manbaby shitfits. I never thought I'd see the day where we had a poster exemplifying one of my .gifs 1:1, and yet, here we are:
Poodlestrike
Banned
There are better ways to handle criticism than manbaby shitfits. I never thought I'd see the day where we had a poster exemplifying one of my .gifs 1:1, and yet, here we are:
Not quite 1:1
Yet.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
remember that time halo 4 ended on a qte
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