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Halo |OT 21| Battle is the Great Redeemer | LIVE. DIE. RESPAWN.

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W

willow ve

Member
TTUVAPOR said:
Why do you say it's important?
Click to expand...

On both maps (especially spawning with the AR) they're just large enough that ADS is necessary for all but the closest encounters. Coupled with the fact that ADS is such a prominent left trigger position and it feels like (to me) that if you're not using the new default controls and ADS at all times you're missing out.

Really wish they would eliminate zoom from weapons like the SMG and the AR. Why do these weapons need zoom?
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
willow ve said:
On both maps (especially spawning with the AR) they're just large enough that ADS is necessary for all but the closest encounters. Coupled with the fact that ADS is such a prominent left trigger position and it feels like (to me) that if you're not using the new default controls and ADS at all times you're missing out.

Really wish they would eliminate zoom from weapons like the SMG and the AR. Why do these weapons need zoom?
Click to expand...

I disagree.

I don't think you need to ADS all the time at all, unless you're trying to zoom for distance, but the hipfire works just fine on the rifles.

I agree with the full autos not needing zoom. But, ADS on those increases their accuracy.

Also, I can't default controls, I use the Halo 4 controls.
 
W

willow ve

Member
TTUVAPOR said:
I disagree.

I don't think you need to ADS all the time at all, unless you're trying to zoom for distance, but the hipfire works just fine on the rifles.

I agree with the full autos not needing zoom. But, ADS on those increases their accuracy.

Also, I can't default controls, I use the Halo 4 controls.
Click to expand...

That's exactly my point. Because ADS increases accuracy it feels like I NEED to be using ADS all the time (even in very close quarters). It just feels off to me and I would much prefer it be removed.
 
M

Mdot

Member
willow ve said:
That's exactly my point. Because ADS increases accuracy it feels like I NEED to be using ADS all the time (even in very close quarters). It just feels off to me and I would much prefer it be removed.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Keep it for normally scoped weapons (BR/DMR/Pistol) but for full auto, ditch it. Or at least don't up the accuracy when using it to remove incentive and "need" to use it.
 
RSB

RSB

Banned
The more I play it, the more I hate ADS. The added delay during the ADS animation is horrible, the visual clutter sucks, and the reduced spread is ridiculous.

If classic zoom is not in the final game (as an option at least) I won't even bother.

FyreWulff said:
An open letter to 343 about Firefight in the MCC

And that's the last time I'm going to mention anything on this topic.
Click to expand...
Well said.

I really hope they also include Firefight. Love that mode.
 
J

jem0208

Member
I actually think ADS for autos is a welcome change. Initially I thought it would be bad but after playing for quite a bit I've changed my mind.

ADS isn't necessary at all at close range. The autos act just as they used to when firing from the hip, except they're more powerful now. Descope and the slower tracking speed mean that up close ADS is almost useless. However due to the tightened spread, the autos are obviously more viable at range.

The current system means that the AR is viable at mid range, but not overpowered up close. Which is a welcome change IMO. AR starts are no longer a bad thing, the AR and the pistol are both viable weapons which can defend you at range. It's a really good change.

I do think the AR should have a bit of a wider spread when scoped though.
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
I would agree that both the AR and SMG do not need smart scope at all. They most certainly do not need a boost in accuracy either.

This is a clear indication of catering to the COD crowd.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
shout-out to VisceralBowl's british friend thinking I sound like every white boy in gaming on the planet. Got compared to sounding like Bravo and Dan Ayoub.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
I think they do need the boost; it lets you ping distant BR/DMR users out of scope, allowing you to traverse the map. The only way you don't need it is if we return to the "autos are for close range backup/fallback ONLY" dynamic.
 
D

DJ Gunner

Member
TTUVAPOR said:
I would agree that both the AR and SMG do not need smart scope at all. They most certainly do not need a boost in accuracy either.

This is a clear indication of catering to the COD crowd.
Click to expand...

At this point, there's simply no conjecture regarding what market they are after.

Lucky for me, I have the latest COD, so I can get my COD fix there.

Were it so easy to get my Real Halo fix with the MCC :/
 
J

jem0208

Member
TTUVAPOR said:
I would agree that both the AR and SMG do not need smart scope at all. They most certainly do not need a boost in accuracy either.

This is a clear indication of catering to the COD crowd.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is true at all. The aesthetic side, maybe it is. From a mechanical side it makes sense though. Without smart scope the autos would be useless at range and we'd lose this awesome setup the game currently has where every weapon is viable.
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
I think they do need the boost; it lets you ping distant BR/DMR users out of scope, allowing you to traverse the map. The only way you don't need it is if we return to the "autos are for close range backup/fallback ONLY" dynamic.
Click to expand...

That's what the pistol's role is for though.

I think many people are really confusing the roles of Halo weapons.
 
RSB

RSB

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
I think they do need the boost; it lets you ping distant BR/DMR users out of scope, allowing you to traverse the map. The only way you don't need it is if we return to the "autos are for close range backup/fallback ONLY" dynamic.
Click to expand...
That should be the role of the pistol. (lol, beaten)

AR + Pistol starts could be perfect I think, but they need to increase the range of the pistol and reduce it on the AR.
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
jem0208 said:
I don't think this is true at all. The aesthetic side, maybe it is. From a mechanical side it makes sense though. Without smart scope the autos would be useless at range and we'd lose this awesome setup the game currently has where every weapon is viable.
Click to expand...

Again, I'll repeat myself, the full autos shouldn't be able to deal punishing damage at medium range, that's what a rifle is for.

Like the pistol, it's not a useful cqc weapon, it's role is for medium range engagements against rifle players.

Other than close range, the full-autos don't need to be punishing outside that range. They should still be able to kill a shield-less opponent, but to say that their primary range is medium is a bit much in my opinion, especially with a weapon so easy to use, as in it doesn't require much aiming.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
TTUVAPOR said:
That's what the pistol's role is for though.

I think many people are really confusing the roles of Halo weapons.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that the confusion is on the other foot. A lot of the complaints leveled against the AR/SMG seem to be working on the assumption that their role in the sandbox is supposed to be identical to previous games. The sandbox has changed. Before, the AR was strictly a fallback weapon that you carried around if you ever ran out of ammo, or more likely, you ditched for a specialty gun. The BR was strong at all ranges. Now it's:

AR: Strong up close, workable at mid, useful only for descoping at long range.

Pistol: (Very) strong mid, workable up close, only good for descoping at long range.

BR: Workable at all 3 ranges.

DMR: Weak up close, workable at mid, strong at long range.

SMG: Monstrous up close, workable midrange ambush weapon.

It's different now, because everything actually has a place. If you want to argue that players should spawn with a BR and an AR, fine, but the existing weapon balance is a good one, even if it is different than past games.
 
Welfare

Welfare

Member
Poodlestrike said:
I'd argue that the confusion is on the other foot. A lot of the complaints leveled against the AR/SMG seem to be working on the assumption that their role in the sandbox is supposed to be identical to previous games. The sandbox has changed. Before, the AR was strictly a fallback weapon that you carried around if you ever ran out of ammo, or more likely, you ditched for a specialty gun. The BR was strong at all ranges. Now it's:

AR: Strong up close, workable at mid, useful only for descoping at long range.

Pistol: (Very) strong mid, workable up close, only good for descoping at long range.

BR: Workable at all 3 ranges.

DMR: Weak up close, workable at mid, strong at long range.

SMG: Monstrous up close, workable midrange ambush weapon.

It's different now, because everything actually has a place. If you want to argue that players should spawn with a BR and an AR, fine, but the existing weapon balance is a good one, even if it is different than past games.
Click to expand...

Nope. nope nope no no no no no

DMR right now is beast at all ranges.
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
I'd argue that the confusion is on the other foot. A lot of the complaints leveled against the AR/SMG seem to be working on the assumption that their role in the sandbox is supposed to be identical to previous games. The sandbox has changed. Before, the AR was strictly a fallback weapon that you carried around if you ever ran out of ammo, or more likely, you ditched for a specialty gun. The BR was strong at all ranges. Now it's:

AR: Strong up close, workable at mid, useful only for descoping at long range.

Pistol: (Very) strong mid, workable up close, only good for descoping at long range.

BR: Workable at all 3 ranges.

DMR: Weak up close, workable at mid, strong at long range.

SMG: Monstrous up close, workable midrange ambush weapon.

It's different now, because everything actually has a place. If you want to argue that players should spawn with a BR and an AR, fine, but the existing weapon balance is a good one, even if it is different than past games.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your definitions on the weapon's roles, but I think the complaints are coming from players easily spamming the full-autos at mid range targets.

Medium range should require some amount of aiming skill to get a kill, otherwise it's COD-style gameplay, point and hold down the trigger till the player dies...which is what the full-autos are in H5 right now at medium range.
 
J

jem0208

Member
Poodlestrike said:
I'd argue that the confusion is on the other foot. A lot of the complaints leveled against the AR/SMG seem to be working on the assumption that their role in the sandbox is supposed to be identical to previous games. The sandbox has changed. Before, the AR was strictly a fallback weapon that you carried around if you ever ran out of ammo, or more likely, you ditched for a specialty gun. The BR was strong at all ranges. Now it's:

AR: Strong up close, workable at mid, useful only for descoping at long range.

Pistol: (Very) strong mid, workable up close, only good for descoping at long range.

BR: Workable at all 3 ranges.

DMR: Weak up close, workable at mid, strong at long range.

SMG: Monstrous up close, workable midrange ambush weapon.

It's different now, because everything actually has a place. If you want to argue that players should spawn with a BR and an AR, fine, but the existing weapon balance is a good one, even if it is different than past games.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I had begun to type.

Why do people want to stick with the classic weapon roles? They sucked. It was by far the biggest problem Halo used to have. The only viable weapon was the BR or the power weapons.

This new balance is fantastic. It's the only Halo where I am swapping my weapon out. I've every single weapon loads in the beta and it's great. Some minor tweaks are needed. Buff the pistol slightly, make the AR slightly less powerful etc. However overall I'm very happy with the current setup.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
TTUVAPOR said:
I don't disagree with your definitions on the weapon's roles, but I think the complaints are coming from players easily spamming the full-autos at mid range targets.

Medium range should require some amount of aiming skill to get a kill, otherwise it's COD-style gameplay, point and hold down the trigger till the player dies...which is what the full-autos are in H5 right now at medium range.
Click to expand...

It's just... I don't get how y'all are scoring easy kills at mid range with the autos right now. Sure, the SMG will shred somebody if you get the drop on somebody while scoped in, but it's very nearly a power weapon (hell, might as well just reskin the thing and call it a SAW, lol). Every time I try it, I get either evaded (dude boosts around corner, encounter changes to close range), or just takes me out with a BR/DMR/Pistol (unless I really get the drop on them). Where are these awful players who just stand around and get shot?

And can I play some?

Or am I just not understanding the difference between the ranges? How are we defining "mid" range? I was thinking something like Tower 2 to Top Mid on Empire; is that too far?
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
It's just... I don't get how y'all are scoring easy kills at mid range with the autos right now. Sure, the SMG will shred somebody if you get the drop on somebody while scoped in, but it's very nearly a power weapon (hell, might as well just reskin the thing and call it a SAW, lol). Every time I try it, I get either evaded (dude boosts around corner, encounter changes to close range), or just takes me out with a BR/DMR/Pistol (unless I really get the drop on them). Where are these awful players who just stand around and get shot?

And can I play some?

Or am I just not understanding the difference between the ranges? How are we defining "mid" range? I was thinking something like Tower 2 to Top Mid on Empire; is that too far?
Click to expand...

That's where I think confusion lies, people's opinions of medium range combat are going to be very, very different.

That's probably why people are getting so angry about the full-autos.

If we use a real map example...medium range to me would be from top mid in midship to the window ledge of a base...that's medium to me.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
TTUVAPOR said:
That's where I think confusion lies, people's opinions of medium range combat are going to be very, very different.

That's probably why people are getting so angry about the full-autos.

If we use a real map example...medium range to me would be from top mid in midship to the window ledge of a base...that's medium to me.
Click to expand...

Alright, that's about the same.

Then I'm just not getting it. There's generally enough geometry at that range* to make a mid-range encounter with an auto a dicey proposition. Odds are good they'd just break off and reengage with a BR, which (and correct me if I'm wrong) has a shorter TTK at that range.

*Though admittedly they could use some more cover in Midship. Bottom mid and Red 2/Blue 2 are awfully open.
 
RSB

RSB

Banned
You know what would be great to have in Halo 5? Backpack reloading.

It was a great mechanic in Halo CE, and it would fit the faster pace of the game perfectly.
 
C

Caja 117

Member
TTUVAPOR said:
Again, I'll repeat myself, the full autos shouldn't be able to deal punishing damage at medium range, that's what a rifle is for.

Like the pistol, it's not a useful cqc weapon, it's role is for medium range engagements against rifle players.

Other than close range, the full-autos don't need to be punishing outside that range. They should still be able to kill a shield-less opponent, but to say that their primary range is medium is a bit much in my opinion, especially with a weapon so easy to use, as in it doesn't require much aiming.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, Autos shouldnt punish anyone at long range, it also affect snipe as well.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
TTUVAPOR said:
Again, I'll repeat myself, the full autos shouldn't be able to deal punishing damage at medium range, that's what a rifle is for.

Like the pistol, it's not a useful cqc weapon, it's role is for medium range engagements against rifle players.

Other than close range, the full-autos don't need to be punishing outside that range. They should still be able to kill a shield-less opponent, but to say that their primary range is medium is a bit much in my opinion, especially with a weapon so easy to use, as in it doesn't require much aiming.
Click to expand...

It is technically called an assault rifle
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
My hate of the AR comes mainly from how unrewarding it is to use. Automatic weapon combat is just SUPER stale in Halo. Aim at body, hold trigger, win. Almost no aiming or strafing required. It's too easy to use for how powerful it is.


I think they should nerf the range, beef up the red reticle range on the pistol. Better yet, keep it as is, make it a map pick up, spawn everyone with BR/Pistol. This is the dream.






Proof of precision weapon dominance here.
http://xboxclips.com/Tawpgun/964fe15c-f853-47cc-ad83-9b83b28882bd

Aside from me playing like an idiot because my team was dominating... note how I was super weak when I started to engage the guy. But with a good strafe and a good shot I was able to beat him. This would have NEVER happened if the other guy was holding an AR
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
TTUVAPOR said:
LOL.

It's a machine gun.
Click to expand...

MA5B Assault Rifle

The only thing that I think should be tweaked to the AR and SMG are removing the ADS for them. The AR should be a weapon that's viable at mid-range and be on fairly equal footing to the BR or DMR. BR and DMR should dominate at long range
 
T

TTUVAPOR

Banned
Tawpgun said:
My hate of the AR comes mainly from how unrewarding it is to use. Automatic weapon combat is just SUPER stale in Halo. Aim at body, hold trigger, win. Almost no aiming or strafing required. It's too easy to use for how powerful it is.


I think they should nerf the range, beef up the red reticle range on the pistol. Better yet, keep it as is, make it a map pick up, spawn everyone with BR/Pistol. This is the dream.






Proof of precision weapon dominance here.
http://xboxclips.com/Tawpgun/964fe15c-f853-47cc-ad83-9b83b28882bd

Aside from me playing like an idiot because my team was dominating... note how I was super weak when I started to engage the guy. But with a good strafe and a good shot I was able to beat him. This would have NEVER happened if the other guy was holding an AR
Click to expand...

I would argue that it's 343's intention to make the AR very easy to use and punishing at close to medium range distance, intentionally. I think the objective here is to grab new players to Halo, and veteran COD players and have them transition into Halo 5 very easily. The full auto weapons do that.

I agree with you though, I get zero fun out of spraying people with full auto weapons, doesn't matter what the game is either.

Counterstrike's weapons are all pretty much full auto, but their recoil and kick make them fun to use.

I'd nerf the range at which the AR is punishing, keep the damage modifier the same as it is.
 
D

Defect

Member
At first I thought stabilizers would be useless but I've been using them to pull off some nice snipes/cleanup kills. Keep it in.

Also groundpound ain't that bad too. I never thought I would say that.
 
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