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[YourExWife]

Jem, just go to bed man.

This entire conversation (based on a quick skimming)...

 

[jem0208]

I mean, I think that was Booshka's point. You don't add something just because you had fun with it in some other game, you add it because it makes sense in the larger context. Does the Mauler? Maybe, it was more fun in the shotgun in that you had to beat down right after for the kill.

The problem with bloated sandboxes is that they are almost impossible to balance and you have weapons basically duplicating roles. Instead of offering interesting choices to the player (AR or Plasma Pistol), you offer up almost superfluous ones (AR or Suppressor). It's a total waste of effort.


I think the point is that's actually what you think, but it took like 5 posts to boil down to that when you should have just figured out how to say it in the first place.

Balance aspects I can understand. However as long as you have anything super OP I don't think it's a big issue. Useless weapons are just ignored generally. I don't think having superfluous weapons is really a problem.

Jem, you're missing the point. The issue here isn't explicitly related to your preferences, word choice or intent regarding the two. It's that, rather than focus on grounding your stances with quantifiable information, when faced with a conflicting standpoint you immediately pivot to some other thought process that does nothing to strengthen your original argument or even validate your new ones! Rather than trying to salvage even a modicum of rationale, all you're doing is proverbially smashing mailboxes in hopes of having someone seeing eye to eye with you. That's the problem I'm getting at.

That's not true at all though. I think you're collecting multiple discussions together that were only loosely linked.

I mentioned I didn't enjoy Nintendo games and went on to clarify that it was actually the majority of Japanese games largely because of the presentation. This was met with disbelief and caused a tangential discussion about character action games and how I think they're a bit absurd and don't enjoy the gameplay. Which in turn (caused by a bit of ramble from me about presentation) led onto a discussion about story in games vs gameplay.

These discussions had very little to do with my initial comment about disliking Japanese games. They were actually just tangential discussions about other aspects of gaming. However you seem to be attributing them to some form of running commentary I had on Japanese games. That's not the case. In almost every post where I actually discuss Japanese games I mention the fact that I generally dislike their presentation including my very first post on the topic. This being a large reason why I don't like them.

The fact that you missed or just ignored those comments would probably explain why you're so confused by my posts.


Edit: Actually looking back on the conversation, they're quite clearly linked.

 

[Booshka]

lol

After watching both of those and going back to the front page, it recommended I watch this for some reason.

Surprisingly apt metaphor, Jem's "fun" argument is Horsepower, Cummins Diesel is the game design and mechanics argument.

Do it again!

 

[User 73706]

Balance aspects I can understand. However as long as you have anything super OP I don't think it's a big issue. Useless weapons are just ignored generally. I don't think having superfluous weapons is really a problem.



That's not true at all though. I think you're collecting multiple discussions together that were only loosely linked.

I mentioned I didn't enjoy Nintendo games and went on to clarify that it was actually the majority of Japanese games largely because of the presentation. This was met with disbelief and caused a tangential discussion about character action games and how I think they're a bit absurd and don't enjoy the gameplay. Which in turn (caused by a bit of ramble from me about presentation) led onto a discussion about story in games vs gameplay.

These discussions had very little to do with my initial comment about disliking Japanese games. They were actually just tangential discussions about other aspects of gaming. However you seem to be attributing them to some form of running commentary I had on Japanese games. That's not the case. In almost every post where I actually discuss Japanese games I mention the fact that I generally dislike their presentation including my very first post on the topic. This being a large reason why I don't like them.

The fact that you missed or just ignored those comments would probably explain why you're so confused by my posts.


Edit: Actually looking back on the conversation, they're quite clearly linked.

This is a Halo thread. Not a "how much do you like Japanese games" thread. A Halo thread. I'm talking about your attempts to defend your positions on Halo.

 

[YourExWife]

I mentioned I didn't enjoy Nintendo games and went on to clarify that it was actually the majority of Japanese games largely because of the presentation.

This is in fact not what you said.

That said, I don't like Japanese games. Not because they're Japanese, I couldn't care less from where they were made. I just haven't found a single one I have enjoyed.

The fact that you still don't understand why people object to your statements / correct you, and how you somehow still don't understand how having these types of discussions with you is annoying as fuck, does, in fact, make you annoying as fuck.

Think out your thoughts fully before you tell others about them. Then think about them again. Then type them. Then ask yourself what that shit sounds like. Then re-write it. Rinse. Repeat.

Until then, just stop.

Spoiler

for clarification, refer to my previous post...

 

[jem0208]

This is a Halo thread. Not a "how much do you like Japanese games" thread. A Halo thread. I'm talking about your attempts to defend your positions on Halo.

Okay, but... if that's the case, then why didn't you say that in the first place? It just serves to weaken the impression of your arguments if every debate goes like this:

A: "I don't like X. I think that's the case because M."
B: "Why do you think M, though?"
A: "Actually you're wrong, I don't think M, it's only half an M, really. Oh, and I don't not not like X, it's more that I don't like Y."
B: "Well, even if that's the case, half an M still means you're associating your reasoning with M. Why do you feel it's because of half an M, even though it would make more sense to think N?"
A: "See, that's not true at all, though. It's not that I think it because half an M, it's because X is O. And, well, N? I've never been a huge fan of N, honestly."
B: "You didn't even mention O before, but if that's the case, wouldn't O be more related to Z? And why don't you like N?"
A: "Now, that's not why at all. It's not that I don't like N. And, well, it's not really even O, either!"

You have to imagine that level of roundabout reasoning and justification is going to make any attempt at a unified methodology seem paper-thin.

Well you could have clarified that considering your previous post was responding to a post entirely about the other topic.

This is in fact not what you said.



The fact that you still don't understand why people object to your statements / correct you, and how you somehow still don't understand how having these types of discussions with you is annoying as fuck, does, in fact, make you annoying as fuck.

Think out your thoughts fully before you tell others about them. Then think about them again. Then type them. Then ask yourself what that shit sounds like. Then re-write it. Rinse. Repeat.

Until then, just stop.

Spoiler

for clarification, refer to my previous post...

Nice use of selective quoting there.

Also last time we had this sort of discussion I seem to remember the problems were caused entirely by people completely misquoting me and using that to twist what I was saying into something else.

Like you just fucking did.

Indeed, but that doesn't mean those weapons should appear in multiplayer. There's an obvious need for weapons for the Prometheans and Covenant to throw at you in the campaign; but in multiplayer, balancing those different weapons results in samey weapons that most players ignore cause they want the human weapon anyhow.

I think 343's ideas with getting people to use alien weapons was a good one, I just don't think there's any way to make it work. I'd rather have had crazier and imbalanced weapons in campaign and just leave them out of the multi insofar as sandbox considerations. Add them via Forge if you want.

The campaign comment was directed at how weapons aren't a waste of resources, regardless of if they're superfluous in multiplayer or not. They have a use in the campaigns, which is a pretty major part of Halo.

Anyway, as long as the weapons aren't OP and the maps aren't completely flooded with useless weapons I don't think it's too big an issue. The mauler isn't exactly an OP weapon, it's basically a crappy shotgun. It was fun in campaign though and quite satisfying if you managed to catch someone off guard with it.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I don't believe it was wasted resources at all. You're forgetting that the weapon was also a part of the campaign. Halo isn't entirely about multiplayer.

Indeed, but that doesn't mean those weapons should appear in multiplayer. There's an obvious need for weapons for the Prometheans and Covenant to throw at you in the campaign; but in multiplayer, balancing those different weapons results in samey weapons that most players ignore cause they want the human weapon anyhow.

I think 343's ideas with getting people to use alien weapons was a good one, I just don't think there's any way to make it work. I'd rather have had crazier and imbalanced weapons in campaign and just leave them out of the multi insofar as sandbox considerations. Add them via Forge if you want.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Nice use of selective quoting there.

You said thing, and then went "wait, oh I forgot the first thing I said is actually not true." Not a single game vs majority is a pretty massive goal post change, not even going into you bringing up Tenchu basically meaning what you said earlier was actually false.

Selective quoting implies changing the meaning, when you said that all on your own.

Maybe everyone being confused and thinking you are wrong has less to do with everyone being mean meanies and more to do with the fact your posts are confusing and not well thought-out.

 

[YourExWife]

You said thing

We have a winner.

 

[Booshka]

If Jem went -20 versus Deez and the other scrubs that aren't on 343's Pro Test team, it would still be less embarrassing than the thrashing he is getting on this page.

 

[RowdyReverb]

I saw a suggestion for population counters a couple pages back. I think a better solution would be either a graphical representation of playlist activity, or even better an estimated wait time to find a match.

Giving population counters gives ammunition to popularity contests or "Halo is dad" arguments, neither of which contributes to a healthy community. It was one thing when Halo was on top of the world to proudly show off the matchmaking population, but these are different times. The solution I offered would give the same utility of a playlist population counter without stirring up controversy.

 

[jem0208]

You said thing, and then went "wait, oh I forgot the first thing I said is actually not true." Not a single game vs majority is a pretty massive goal post change, not even going into you bringing up Tenchu basically meaning what you said earlier was actually false.

Selective quoting implies changing the meaning, when you said that all on your own.

Maybe everyone being confused and thinking you are wrong has less to do with everyone being mean meanies and more to do with the fact your posts are confusing and not well thought-out.

Oh I'm sorry I forgot about that one game I played about 11 years ago.

That first post is more or less true, other than one, I haven't actually enjoyed any Japanese games I've played. Sorry if that offends you.

As for the selective quoting, he bolded the comment about presentation, then cut that part out of my first comment. If he was only referring to the majority party of the comment then he's going to have to be a bit more clear.



Anyway this discussion has gone on way too long and is completely irrelevant to Halo.

If Jem went -20 versus Deez and the other scrubs that aren't on 343's Pro Test team, it would still be less embarrassing than the thrashing he is getting on this page.

Is selective quoting and moving goalposts is thrashing, sure.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

343.

 

[VinFTW]

What did I miss?

 

[ProvenDeadly]

343 is the biggest tease.

 

[Madness]

I saw a suggestion for population counters a couple pages back. I think a better solution would be either a graphical representation of playlist activity, or even better an estimated wait time to find a match.

Giving population counters gives ammunition to popularity contests or "Halo is dad" arguments, neither of which contributes to a healthy community. It was one thing when Halo was on top of the world to proudly show off the matchmaking population, but these are different times. The solution I offered would give the same utility of a playlist population counter without stirring up controversy.

Surely the benefit to having actual playlist counters is better than the problem of arguing nerds on forums about which game is better. At this point, not even Halo fans care about MCC much anymore, so who will honestly care if CE has 290 players, while Halo 3 has 840 players etc.

Having a graph that only gives a rough estimate of the population or wait times is not the same utility as factual numbers for playlists. Don't know if I can agree purposely obfuscating information or the truth so it doesn't stir up controversy is a good thing.

Telling me, I'll find a match in under 45 seconds in Halo 2 Classic is not the same as telling me there are only 450 people available whereas the Team Slayer combined playlist has 2400 people.

 

[Granadier]

 

[YourExWife]

As for the selective quoting, he bolded the comment about presentation, then cut that part out of my first comment. If he was only referring to the majority party of the comment then he's going to have to be a bit more clear.

I bolded the part where you selectively forgot about the order of events, just one of the concepts of conversing with words that you need to work on. Your clarifications came later, after everyone-and-their-brother called you out on a blanket statement. You didn't say "majority" initially as you claimed in the first post I quoted. This is exactly what Prinz was pointing out to you and you still clearly don't get it. Go to fucking bed..

I waited until then to even comment because you, whether on purpose or not, changed the narrative in your favor to feed your apparent persecution complex. I'm all for having differing opinions. I don't actually care for too many newer Nintendo games either. I'm "old" and I prefer OG Mario over newer stuff, for example. For me, it's gameplay. The newer ones are slower, easier, etc. Doesn't mean they're bad games and it doesn't mean I would say something like "I don't like Nintendo games" and then two replies later say "Except for this one from the 80's. Geez guys, lay off, I'm sorry I didn't mention some old game before making a sweeping statement of stupidity, stop picking on me!"

 

[TCKaos]

On that note, you guys been watching Apex? Shit is intense. I wish Halo was as intense as Apex.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Apex is legit.

 

[GringoSuave89]

On that note, you guys been watching Apex? Shit is intense. I wish Halo was as intense as Apex.

I've heard good things. Need to get on that.

Things are way too heated around here. Let's all just chillax.

 

[RowdyReverb]

...
Telling me, I'll find a match in under 45 seconds in Halo 2 Classic is not the same as telling me there are only 450 people available whereas the Team Slayer combined playlist has 2400 people.

But, why else would you want a population counter if not to gauge how long it will take to get into a match?

 

[RBK]

But, why else would you want a population counter if not to gauge how long it will take to get into a match?

Fuel more debates on how Halo is dead and 343 is incompetent.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Fuel more debates on how Halo is dead and 343 is incompetent.

That's the only reason, honestly.

 

[YourExWife]

That's the only reason, honestly.

Did I ever tell you the story about how the H5 servers are shit for Southern New Mexicans?

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Oh I'm sorry I forgot about that one game I played about 11 years ago.

That first post is more or less true, other than one, I haven't actually enjoyed any Japanese games I've played. Sorry if that offends you.

As for the selective quoting, he bolded the comment about presentation, then cut that part out of my first comment. If he was only referring to the majority party of the comment then he's going to have to be a bit more clear.



Anyway this discussion has gone on way too long and is completely irrelevant to Halo.




Is selective quoting and moving goalposts is thrashing, sure.

Mario 64, and you post a lot dude, god damn.

Finally, Halo 4 sucks and 5 sucks also. Now go play some Zelda and see what you've been missing.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Did I ever tell you the story about how the H5 servers are shit for Southern New Mexicans?

Are they bad? My ABQ ass was having little to no trouble.

 

[YourExWife]

Are they bad? My ABQ ass was having little to no trouble.

The servers might be alright, but the latency was laughable 9/10 games.

Simple solution. Nuke Southwest.

But then who will help you when your dumb state runs low on electricity all the time?

 

[GringoSuave89]

Simple solution. Nuke Southwest.

Fuck right off. Green chile. Nuff said.

 

[YourExWife]

Fuck right off. Green chile. Nuff said.

Hatch green chile fo' life.

^^^Best smell on the planet

 

[Booshka]

The California Gangsta himself

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-confirms-nevada-to-get-battery-factory-1409871734

 

[YourExWife]

The California Gangsta himself

#NMisdad

 

[Leyasu]

Titanfall requires dedis to handle having the AI in the session. Each of those AI take the bandwidth that a normal player would. So even though the game is capped at 12 human players, it's actually like running a 48 player server.

And? I stuck with the underpowered xbone because of the promise of playing halo on dedicated servers. If they are planning to have all halos on hybrid system that is going to force me to play p2p or out of region, then I want to know...... So I can stop buying their games.

 

[Madness]

But, why else would you want a population counter if not to gauge how long it will take to get into a match?

I want to know exactly how many people are playing in a particular playlist. I don't care about arguing whether CE is the best or Halo 3. But I'd want to know how many are playing. How hard is that? It's something they did in the past and something other games now incorporate.

Why would I spend my time trying to play ranked Team Hardcore(when ranks come), if I find that there are only let's say 120 people in the playlist? While Halo 2 Classic or Team Slayer could have over 1000? Trueskill also comes into play.

I get your argument, but that's a poor excuse, 'oh we hate giving actual data to our fans about playlist numbers, we'd rather just hide it altogether. You know what would even work better than both our ideas? Combining them. Not only a total population/player counter, but exact wait times as well. Though I will say, your idea would be tough to implement. How can a game calculate before matching, hey it'll take you exactly 1 minute 30 seconds to find a match.

Final argument, player counters also help shape discussion around playlist management which is one of the most important aspects of maintaining populations or keeping the game great. If we see that separately Halo 2 classic and Halo 3 average 500 players each, but combined team Slayer averages 4000+ do we really need those playlists, especially when we are trying to get objective playlists, doubles, team snipers, etc.

 

[Leyasu]

Did I ever tell you the story about how the H5 servers are shit for Southern New Mexicans?

I'm in Europe with two fully functional azure datacenters nearby. Playing games on them was great, but getting placed in servers out of region, in the US for example, would mean pings up the arse.

Have you played titanfall? If so what your lowest ping datacenter?

343 need to let us choose where we play.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

The.

Worst.

 

[YourExWife]

I'm in Europe with two fully functional azure datacenters nearby. Playing games on them was great, but getting placed in servers out of region, in the US for example, would mean pings up the arse.

Have you played titanfall? If so what your lowest ping datacenter?

343 need to let us choose where we play.

Titanfall is horrible if I don't get the West Coast server and that's still like 80ms.

 

[Ramirez]

If we played a drinking game for every time Leyasu posted about datacenters we'd all be dead.

 

[Karl2177]

If we played a drinking game for every time Leyasu posted about datacenters we'd all be dead.

And if we drank every time you posted, we'd be dead.

 

[Leyasu]

Titanfall is horrible if I don't get the West Coast server and that's still like 80ms.

80ms is not great, but still playable. Titanfall atleast let you choose where you play.

With 343s idiotic idea of server selection, you are completely at their mercy! They will just chuck you in any server, no fucks given for ping or location. Read what Frankie said two pages back about p2p.

That is going to stay in halo 5! Just all the evidence of host migration and stuff will be totally hidden.

@ Ramirez. I don't enjoy the lag! You want this jumping record to stop? Then get 343 to use their brains, and give us a system that works

Until then...

 

[YourExWife]

80ms is not great, but still playable. Titanfall atleast let you choose where you play.

Only if I played alone. If I wanted to play with a party, then I lose the guaranteed server :/ And considering I bought it with my normal playgroup, that was my usual experience. Such wow.

 

[Leyasu]

Only if I played alone. If I wanted to play with a party, then I lose the guaranteed server :/ And considering I bought it with my normal playgroup, that was my usual experience. Such wow.

Its shitty, that's why I don't have non euro players on friendlist. Fucking lag gets to me in a big way

 

[HTupolev]

With 343s idiotic idea of server selection, you are completely at their mercy! They will just chuck you in any server, no fucks given for ping or location. Read what Frankie said two pages back about p2p.

Alright, Frankie a couple pages back:

No. It's a good fallback for people who have rough geographical access to dedis, or weird DNS issues, or crazy unchangeable NAT situations, or when dedis are down

Hmm.

That is going to stay in halo 5!

but we will be making general improvements to make sure that both of those scenarios are less frequent. And the rollout of cloud and geographically better server clusters is obviously going to continue forever, basically.

Your citation, and your suggestions about what that citation said, do not appear to match.

 

[Leyasu]

Alright, Frankie a couple pages back:

Hmm.


Your citation, and your suggestions about what that citation said, do not appear to match.

OK, I should have said that I think that they will keep p2p in halo 5.. Just going by the reasons that Frankie listed, and seeing as nothing drastic is going to change with the internet between now and launch. I can't see how they won't have the same system.

You accept their reason for having the fallback, but there are other games out that don't need one, and nobody presses them on this! It is hard to comprehend.. Just like the p2p excuse. I am sure that you believe that h5 will be 100% dedicated servers as well.

 

[-Ryn]

Will add you when I get a Wii U Funk

That said, I don't like the majority of Japanese games. Not because they're Japanese, I couldn't care less from where they were made. I just haven't found a single one I have enjoyed. Even the very Western style Japanese games like Dark Souls I didn't enjoy. Mario Kart and stuff like that is fun, but it's never something I'd spend money on. I think it could well be due to presentation, a large amount of Nintendo games are very happy, colourful and almost childish. I just don't really like it, then there's anime which I just cannot stand.

Jem... why do you have to disappoint me like this dude

Spoiler

<3

Spoiler

SERIOUSLY what is wrong with you though!?

Spoiler

Clarified "the majority" in your comment as well

So you want to absolutely destroy the audience it already has, so you can appease I bunch of free loaders? If they lets say gave the early adopters a free game of choice, a $60 title, then that would be fine. Cause if they just said "hey look a 5 month old game is now working, here you can have it for free", they would completely fuck themselves.

I'd like to think that the majority of the Halo player base wouldn't abandon a game they love because other people got it for free when they paid but had to deal with it broken for a while.

Anyone who bought it would be totally justified in being upset. Giving them some kind of credit or gift would also be cool. However abandoning the game once it's finally fixed after waiting so long would be rather dumb imo. Especially for those who presumably bought it because they don't like where Halo is heading but loved the old ones.

I don't know if the word is pride or what, but I find it to be ridiculous.

 

[AlStrong]

y so halo

Miss Atomic Bomb

Shockwave whisper.

 

[The Henery]

You accept their reason for having the fallback, but there are other games out that don't need one, and nobody presses them on this!

Nobody presses them because at this point, most fans have lost their ambition for Halo. 343 can't pit 4 players against 4, AR starts are in big team and they took 6 months to implement red death X's in H4. Before H4, the notion of a Halo game releasing without even the option of playing without sprint for custom games was unthinkable. Now it's shoulder shrugging acceptance that we may have no such option in H5, and we'll get what we're given.

Just take a leaf out of the books of most of the long time fans on here and set your expectations really, really low. This isn't an industry front runner of a series anymore.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Things I didn't expect to see on HaloGAF - Gay Byrne.

 

[-Ryn]

Now it's shoulder shrugging acceptance that we may have no such option in H5, and we'll get what we're given.

This right here really bites hard.

I remember when Halo 4 came out and there was an enormous amount of people talking about how badly it sucked that the customization was so sub par compared to previous Halos. I know Frank has said that one of the #1 things they've learned is the important of customization, and I'm hopeful they really have, but damn if I won't be pissed of Halo 5 skips out on customization again. I miss when sequels had MORE ability. Not less.

 

[jem0208]

Jem... why do you have to disappoint me like this dude

Spoiler

<3

Spoiler

SERIOUSLY what is wrong with you though!?

Spoiler

Clarified "the majority" in your comment as well

I'm sorry

Spoiler

<3

Spoiler

Aha, thanks. Who knew adding a single word could create so much drama.