User 73706
Banned
i rest my case
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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
i rest my case
You should try Bayonetta or Metal Gear Rising. Those could probably change your mind about Japan.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Bayonetta is not a game I enjoy. Not so keen on spectacle fighters... Which kinda rules out Rising as well. I'd like to try Metal Gear Solid though. I've never had a Play Station so I've never had the chance.
I play quite a lot of games... Halo is the only FPS I regularly play.
A few of my favourite games... Skyrim and Oblivion, Telltale's Walking Dead, Forza Horizon, Halo (obviously), Minecraft, Age of Empires, Rust (even though it's barely playable), Thomas Was Alone, Portal 1 and 2, GTA SA... A recent addition would be The Witcher 2.
I play tonnes of different games. Just happens to be that none of them are Japanese.
Is that not the right term? I swear I heard it somewhere...
I may be completely wrong with the terminology. Anyway, what I mean is I don't like the crazy action with ridiculous combos where you things beat at things whilst hardly touching the ground. Maybe slightly hyperbolic but you know what I mean.
I think it was a Total Biscuit video where I heard it. But yeah, got the term wrong.
Welfare
Member
It's from Yahtzee.
Prinz Eugn
Member
See my edit, but if you don't like any of the Japanese games you've played, you either haven't tried enough, you hate video games, or you are biased.
I believe Character Action Games is the term mostly used here. And based on your very own description of them they sound fun. Why not play them? They're no more absurd than any other video game.
Play Ninja Gaiden Black please. Bayonetta and MG Rising are anime bullshit, but they have amazing game mechanics. Ninja Gaiden Black is less anime bullshit, and amazing mechanics, so play that and work from there.
NG:B >>>>>>>>>NG2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NG2S, GoW3, MGR, Bayo, DMC, etc
Best action game ever made. By a mile.
Don't forget Jade Empire, Otogi 1+2, Panzer Dragoon Orta and Phantum Dust <3
ElzarTheBam
Member
If you don't like Goemon, then you're dead inside.
Yeah, that's the one I meant.
Well, the absurdity turns me off somewhat, however I'm not that keen on the gameplay from what I played of Bayonetta. It's not bad on anyway, just not for me.
I certainly don't hate video games and I'm not biased against Japanese games. It's possible I haven't played enough, but then again I have played a lot of them...
I'll look into it.
I just realised I've been lying actually. There is a Japanese game I have really enjoyed. Tenchu is fucking awesome.
hammertomb
Banned
My xbox from ebay came in today. I got it just for ninja gaiden black.
After playing for two hours i can confirm that it is sill the best game ever made.
I don't want to make any assumptions about your age but I would say it takes a certain level of maturity to indulge in the absurdity without feeling any guilt or embarrassment over it. One day you will let go of those feelings and become curious, and you will be happy when you do. The melodramatic presentation and infinite clichés in Japanese media can certainly be grating but you can't let it pass you by and miss out on some unique fun.
Sorry Jem, it has come to this. Liking Halo 4 more than the rest is one thing, but not liking Nintendo games, at all? Damn lol.
I definitely don't feel any embarrassment from the absurdity. That's also not really the main reason I dislike them. That style of gameplay just isn't really my sort of thing.
As for the presentation, I prefer a more grounded approach to games. Halo is clearly completely unrealistic however its grounded in the universe, it's not "gamey". I don't like it when games are covered with combo signs and swords have pointless and huge trails which are added because it looks cool and is a game.
I enjoy getting immersed in a world or a story (or preferably both). Honestly, gameplay is almost secondary most of the time... The gameplay in The Witcher 2 is rather average, the combat is quite entertaining but can be frustrating and also a bit of a slog. However I loved the game because it has a really interesting story and the world is rich and interesting. AC Unity has gameplay which ranges from bad to alright yet I really enjoyed it because Paris is gorgeous and amazing to explore.
There are games which I play because they are just fun, Halo's multiplayer being one of the main ones. However most of the time if the world or story is boring I can't be bothered.
User 73706
Banned
honorary black history month avatar using another BCTer's face as a base to play with the whole "they all look alike" thing
Don't think I'll ever buy a Nintendo console again, felt like I got burned with the Wii. But then again, I didn't invest a ton of my time playing the first Galaxy and MK Wii played like shit with the Wii wheel.
I am interested in getting a N3DS, just not paying $200 as a part of Nintendo's scheming agenda.
I am interested in getting a N3DS, just not paying $200 as a part of Nintendo's scheming agenda.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Play... games
Gameplay... secondary
wat
Gameplay... secondary
wat
My preference of Halo games has nothing to do with the lore. I actually specifically mentioned Halo (the multiplayer at least) as an example where I take gameplay as a first priority.
As for other games, I can think of many examples of games where I've been willing to sit through rather average gameplay because of an excellent story or world. I can't think of that many (single player) games where the gameplay has been the only thing keeping me interested. The Arkham games are some which I never got into the story but really enjoyed the gameplay so I kept playing.
Multiplayer is a bit different, but that's pretty much limited to Halo and stuff I play with my friends.
It really depends on the game. If I'm going to sit through a long single player game, it's got to have a good story or world or I just can't be bothered. I don't like replaying most games. It just doesn't particularly interest me because I've already experienced the story. If it's an open world game like Skyrim then I can play for ridiculous amounts of time because I love exploring the world.
Multiplayer is a bit different. I obviously love Halo's multiplayer, it's easily my favourite series, that's because it's fun; The multiplayer doesn't really have much of a story line to it.
You said that the H3 Mauler should be in Halo 5's weapon sandbox just because it was fun to use...in Halo 3, an entirely different game. The Mauler has no use in Halo 5's sandbox, simply including it for the sake of "fun" is terrible design.
Sent a friend request.
This is true
You're a terrible person.
User 73706
Banned
Kind of important footnote: most of the diehard lore whores for the Halo franchise don't actually play Halo that often and admit to not being that great at the games
Finding a pro-level player that was deeply invested in the Ecumene's political machinations and the chemical composition of biohormonal augmentations distributed throughout Project: CHRYSANTHEMUM as well as the durability ratings on the carbide ceramic ossification are about as likely as finding a match in the MCC
If you're quantifying them as "Japanese games" and happen to not like all of them, I think there are some more deep-seated issues at play here.
Finding a pro-level player that was deeply invested in the Ecumene's political machinations and the chemical composition of biohormonal augmentations distributed throughout Project: CHRYSANTHEMUM as well as the durability ratings on the carbide ceramic ossification are about as likely as finding a match in the MCC
If you're quantifying them as "Japanese games" and happen to not like all of them, I think there are some more deep-seated issues at play here.
I'm not sure what that has to do with topic we were discussing but I'll bite.
What's wrong with including the mauler? I'm not saying lift it wholesale from Halo 3 and dump it into 5. I'm just saying it was a fun weapon to use so I'd like to see it again.
Also this is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in the context of games.
What else are games for other than "fun"? They're a product designed to entertain us; that's their entire point. Everything when it comes to design is intended to create a product which is as entertaining as possible.
Including things which are fun is a very good way of doing that.
I'm sorry
That's actually not true, I like Tenchu.
Also it's not any "deep-seated issues", it's more the game design and presentation philosophies which are a part of the vast majority of Japanese games don't appeal to me. Of you were to show me an amazing looking game and then tell me it's developed by a Japanese studio I wouldn't change my opinion because of that.
Also to say I dislike them is slightly wrong, more I'm disinterested in them.
Haha, this mildly amused me.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
teh absoloot wurst
Seriously jem, "the worst" is a gross understatement.
<3
Prinz Eugn
Member
Well, there's a reason you don't give everyone a super-fun rocket launcher at the beginning of most slayer matches. A more total concept of fun implies fairness, balance, and pacing of rewards.
I'm not sure what that has to do with topic we were discussing but I'll bite.
What's wrong with including the mauler? I'm not saying lift it wholesale from Halo 3 and dump it into 5. I'm just saying it was a fun weapon to use so I'd like to see it again.
Also this is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in the context of games.
What else are games for other than "fun"? They're a product designed to entertain us; that's their entire point. Everything when it comes to design is intended to create a product which is as entertaining as possible.
Including things which are fun is a very good way of doing that.
I'm sorry
That's actually not true, I like Tenchu.
Also it's not any "deep-seated issues", it's more the game design and presentation philosophies which are a part of the vast majority of Japanese games don't appeal to me. Of you were to show me an amazing looking game and then tell me it's developed by a Japanese studio I wouldn't change my opinion because of that.
Also to say I dislike them is slightly wrong, more I'm disinterested in them.
First off, fun should be derived from good game design, mechanics and weapon sandboxes. Halo 2 and Halo 3 had the Dual wielding bloated sandbox problem. A more succinct, and sensible sandbox, not based upon a gimmick (which Dual wielding was) is a lot better. The Mauler is only viable because of the ability to immediately land a simple melee right after shooting it. A Shotgun with a reliable spread/damage ratio, in an online environment with reliable netcode, is preferable.
Fun is subjective, obviously, and the "fun" that Halo 3 offered was terrible to me, because its game design and weapon sandbox felt so compromised.
User 73706
Banned
Okay, but... if that's the case, then why didn't you say that in the first place? It just serves to weaken the impression of your arguments if every debate goes like this:
A: "I don't like X. I think that's the case because M."
B: "Why do you think M, though?"
A: "Actually you're wrong, I don't think M, it's only half an M, really. Oh, and I don't not not like X, it's more that I don't like Y."
B: "Well, even if that's the case, half an M still means you're associating your reasoning with M. Why do you feel it's because of half an M, even though it would make more sense to think N?"
A: "See, that's not true at all, though. It's not that I think it because half an M, it's because X is O. And, well, N? I've never been a huge fan of N, honestly."
B: "You didn't even mention O before, but if that's the case, wouldn't O be more related to Z? And why don't you like N?"
A: "Now, that's not why at all. It's not that I don't like N. And, well, it's not really even O, either!"
You have to imagine that level of roundabout reasoning and justification is going to make any attempt at a unified methodology seem paper-thin.
Prinz Eugn
Member
We need an online class titled "How to Communicate on a Forum: Legend of the Hamburger Gun".
This is why I and others have continued this conversation about liking or not liking a game over certain qualifications, like why Jem thinks Halo is better than all Japanese games. Why doesn't Jem like character actions games? Well he doesn't dislike them, they're just not for him. Why aren't they for him? Actually he does like a Japanese game.
I still have no grasp over any kind of real reason why certain types of games are completely written off. I don't feel like Halo is any more grounded in its universe as, say, Dark Souls is in its, so I don't understand.
<3
There's no reason it can't be balanced though. I just thought that comment sounded ridiculous.
Eh, I liked the mauler. It was an entertaining weapon to use. I've never really understood the bloated sandbox complaint. Just don't include the weapons on the map.
The mere fact that it exists doesn't harm anything. I really just want to be able to mauler brutes in the face again. Multiplayer mauler was just a bonus.
Huh?
I don't like Japanese games because the style of presentation and style of gameplay in the majority of them doesn't appeal to me.
That's pretty much all I've said about Japanese games.
The rest of the rambling from me has been about how I consider gameplay secondary in some games. Only slightly related.
As for the disinterested comment, I do recognise that most of these games are actually very high quality. And I do on occassion enjoy playing them. However I don't enjoy them anywhere near as much as other games. That's why I thought it was more accurate to say disinterested rather than that I outright dislike them.
Oh, quick note. It's like 3am and I can't sleep. Hence the slightly more rambley posts...
Just not for me = less strong version of dislike.
I think this is a case of me using spoken ideosyncrasies that don't translate very well via text.
I don't think character action games are bad, and as such I don't dislike them. However I find them kinda boring. Therefore I think it's more accurate to say they're just not for me.
There's very little I flat out dislike. I have to have a logical reason beyond "I just wasn't enjoying it that much" to say I dislike something.
Also I never said I didn't like Dark Souls because it wasn't grounded. The lore behind Dark Souls is actually quite interesting (but annoying I only really found that out by reading wikis on it though). I didn't enjoy Dark Souls because I found the gameplay boring combined with the lack of direct story.
Bloated sandbox pertains to the wasted resources in designing and attempting to balance a weapon for a MP sandbox. The Mauler is a prime example of a nerfed shotgun that only works because of the simple ability to melee right after it. It's a wasted weapon in MP, it took far too much time to develop and "balance" during the game development, than it does to just remove it from the map by a user post development. My argument is that it was wasted resources to begin with, along with many other dual wield weapons.
Game design should be an exact science; there will always be examples of users changing the intended design and balance of games post release to suit their needs. In the case of Halo 3 especially, the amount of fat that had to be trimmed from that game by users is unacceptable. It's sandbox is bloated, the design is compromised, and the game suffers for it.
Prinz Eugn
Member
I mean, I think that was Booshka's point. You don't add something just because you had fun with it in some other game, you add it because it makes sense in the larger context. Does the Mauler? Maybe, it was more fun in the shotgun in that you had to beat down right after for the kill.
The problem with bloated sandboxes is that they are almost impossible to balance and you have weapons basically duplicating roles. Instead of offering interesting choices to the player (AR or Plasma Pistol), you offer up almost superfluous ones (AR or Suppressor). It's a total waste of effort.
I think the point is that's actually what you think, but it took like 5 posts to boil down to that when you should have just figured out how to say it in the first place.
I don't believe it was wasted resources at all. You're forgetting that the weapon was also a part of the campaign. Halo isn't entirely about multiplayer.
User 73706
Banned
Jem, you're missing the point. The issue here isn't explicitly related to your preferences, word choice or intent regarding the two. It's that, rather than focus on grounding your stances with quantifiable information, when faced with a conflicting standpoint you immediately pivot to some other thought process that does nothing to strengthen your original argument or even validate your new ones! Rather than trying to salvage even a modicum of rationale, all you're doing is proverbially smashing mailboxes in hopes of having someone seeing eye to eye with you. That's the problem I'm getting at.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Jem, just go to bed man.
Prinz Eugn for prez.
GringoSuave89
Banned
#Jemsitdown
GringoSuave89
Banned
PLZ PLZ PLZ make LB swap grenades in H2A Recon controls! I don't care if this delays the patch another week, I need it badly.
VisceralBowl
Member
lol
After watching both of those and going back to the front page, it recommended I watch this for some reason.