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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
A Spectator mode was heavily wished for and not even discussed for that long, but here it is in Halo 5. A CGB has been discussed and literally begged for by many fans for how long now and we've yet to see any improvements to Matchmaking since 2004?
2004. Let that sink in, and here we are discussing base settings for Matchmaking when the answer was always a CGB and/or an advanced toggle system.
2004. Let that sink in, and here we are discussing base settings for Matchmaking when the answer was always a CGB and/or an advanced toggle system.
User 73706
Banned
Is the MCC Update Beta thing up yet?
Welfare
Member
But 343 is clearly copying CoD, and CoD has a spectator mode. CoD is Esports. 343 want in on Esports. 343 is just going by the status quo. /s
omewhatsarcasmbutweallknowit'strue
spectator mode sucked in H5 Beta. It was like Theatre - it didn't stream live, it started you at the beginning of their game and never caught up to live when fast forwarding.
Welfare
Member
That's to prevent cheating. There is always going to be a delay on a live spectator mode.
That's completely intentional. And a good thing.
Would you rather it be live and then someone on the other team can know your entire teams exact position at all times? The delay is need and necessary.
User 73706
Banned
quick, someone get CoD to have CE's aesthetic, a custom game browser and a good plot
Sadly no.
What? That is a good idea that is suggested for years
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
With full blown player toggles for maps, gametypes and a few mechanics settings e.g. radar/no radar there is no need for a custom games browser, which devolves into an ocean of shit IMO. The matchmaking systems are great, they just have to add in the best of dedis and the best of CGB to produce a new version. You know full blown player/party toggles so the developer set in stone vote variants aren't stuffed down your through and restricting your choices.
Here's the check-list to really make it executed properly (not like it hasn't been posted before):
- Similar to Halo 3 Spartan Training you have to play say 10 or 20 games with all toggles on before you can customise and set your own toggles.
- All on by default for the new or careless players to just be searching population (AKA normal matchmaking).
- Set minimum toggles required e.g. 5 maps min, 3 gametypes min and base mechanics. This should be able to be set dynamically by 343i live so they can tweak the balance between minimums and populations for vote variant and player matching times.
- Once players, skill, region & parties are matched based on the toggles then backend systems present 3 dynamic vote variants.
- No veto, one and done.
- A toggle for global or regional azure selection.
- A toggle for skill and/or party strictness matching.
- A toggle for radar or no radar.
- Retain playlists that are ranked or unranked e.g. social vs. ranked.
Benefits:
- Promotes new players to try new maps and new gametypes initially.
- Player/party choice which increases matching beyond simple skill matching to include player experience/desire of maps or gametypes.
- Quitting reduction due to not getting what you wanted at the vote or veto screen.
- Retains the quick and simple aspects of standard matchmaking by default.
- Retains developer quality control of what is presented in matchmaking while also retaining the existing community cartographer process.
- Enables rotational playlists to flourish from the existing system, where a CGB does not.
- Minimise population out of matchmaking playing custom games just to get what they want.
IMO this was the biggest "miss" regarding MCC, it was perfect for toggles of maps, gametypes, radar/no radar, sprint/no sprint, social vs. ranked, game version CE/2/3/4 and more. So much on offer that could have held the population for another decade on the Xbox One.
You didn't see anything.
User 73706
Banned
"but then how am i going to rage quit when i get no sprint slayer?"
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Amen
Campaigning for this since forever. But will not happen
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
CGB > Sort by most players > top game types
Infection
Super casual btb
Super casual slayer
Swat
Infection
Super casual btb
Super casual slayer
Swat
And? If we compare it to CounterStrike there were still tons of people playing good set ups.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
The Halo community exploded and thrived with the introduction of Forge. A CGB could be the next big evolutionary feature that fosters creativity and long lasting interest.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
You're comparing a game that thrived on matchmaking vs a game that thrives on server browsers. I just can't see the Halo community (which is also a console community) making proper use of the CSB remotely close to that seen in Counter Strike. That game also has an incredible population to help.
The Henery
Member
Ha
Sprint is obviously not going anywhere, pointless to debate at this stage. I'd like some revision done to the scoping in H5. I'm not holding out for a toggle or custom scopes but they definitely need to work on the delay and input lag when scoping, particularly on the snipe. Zooming with it was buzz your girlfriend woof. Using it sans scope was all too often advantageous, as evidenced by the Halogaf montage.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I'd like to see Forge moved to Windows 10 as a real full blown editor, imagine the terrain and scripting abilities. From there use HaloWaypoint to submit maps/gametypes through Community Cartographer submissions to eventually get into matchmaking and toggle selection or rotational playlists. They could also create a Halo Channel feature on Forge maps weekly/monthly. Also there is no load time as these maps become required and part of automatic updates etc. Use the fileshare/searching in game and Waypoint for players to vote and leave feedback. Also do an opt-in post carnage rating system too.
Combine, streamline, test and output often.
Yup, but knowing 343, they'll screw that up somehow. I mean.. they brought the legendary classics back onto Live and still managed to kill the population even further.
On the topic of Forge, they're killing that community as well. I personally enjoy forging and sharing my maps, but there's no convenient way to do that now.
343 has good intentions, but they are extremely bad at implementing their ideas.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Few issues here. You are creating massive roadblocks by requiring your players to buy into a specific ecosystem. Also, doesn't it seem completely opposite of streamlined to use Windows 10 > HaloWaypoint > and The Halo Channel to accomplish something outside of the game itself? I guess I would just like to see games focus on keeping the gamer in the game instead of bouncing in and out of apps, webpages, etc.
Technically anything should be able to change in Halo 5. If their survey data tells them that the majority of people surveyed do not think sprint belongs in Halo 5...then they have no choice to make it toggle at the least.
If they don't do that, then they're outright assholes and really do not care about the fans or the feedback.
People who say don't complain or don't bother giving the feedback are just as worse as 343 saying "I know people don't like sprint in Halo 5 but we insist!!!!!"
If they don't do that, then they're outright assholes and really do not care about the fans or the feedback.
People who say don't complain or don't bother giving the feedback are just as worse as 343 saying "I know people don't like sprint in Halo 5 but we insist!!!!!"
Not a new system. Just a new skin. It already has a template from previous games. I think if enough people wanted it they would do it. I also see it as a toggle from the player menu. Like how you can switch when you hover.
Maybe I'm just too optimistic, but I think 343 were genuinely trying to get feedback with this beta and will implement it. Hopefully they'll add toggles for custom games.
I mean hell if the people who make CoD can do it then there's gotta be chance 343 would right?
I think we've actually discussed this before but why was this again? Is it like a gut feeling, health systems of vehicles, or something else? I feel 16v16 could work fine with it. Though I think there needs to be a couple other types of vehicles as well to help give it diversity.
Not sure what the hardcore bit has to do with it. I consider myself a "hardcore" Halo fan.
I don't like sprint because I think it creates faster gameplay. I like it as a tool. While fun gameplay in NO WAY hinges on sprint for me, I do like it and think it works for Halo in larger modes.
If we got wall running and/or wall jumping in H6 I'd probably explode through my roof
If it wasn't in I'd be fine if not a bit disappointed. It's still Halo.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Sure basic Forge that we have had for the last series of Halo games is great when you want to jump in and alter a weapon placement or spawn timer etc. But for building maps it's a really time consuming method with quite limited capabilities compared to a Windows Forge version.
Perhaps allowing M+KB support via USB in the game Forge version would do the trick? However I still see it quite limited in terms of a player building a map and gametype then having it spread throughout matchmaking. Basically just that player's friends download the map and they make a forum post linked to the file download. If they're lucky they get an article highlight on Waypoint or they submit it to CC threads etc.
I'd like to see that system sped up but I also don't just want to see a full blown CGB, as I mentioned I find that just turns to an ocean of shit really.
The ultimate Forge version is definitely Mouse+KB, to me having that on a Windows based computer allows the developers to provide more tools with less support/update issues and streamlines the CC program at the same time. In turn more Forge textures/objects/fixes and sustain can be provided for that sub-community. In my mind the Windows Forge would align more with the developer tools directly so they can process gametypes/maps from the community into matchmaking or other developer mini-projects more readily as well.
You have a valid point but it's just the gamers perspective and only the limited current version of Forge, which compared to full blown PC tools from other developers like Crytek then we're really missing out on a lot. 343i could harness all the modding, map builders, object/texture builders and use their internal staff or outsourced companies to test/polish that content back into matchmaking. This also serves to create fresh and required content updates at regular intervals without the crap present in CGB systems or pure user generated content.
Now if you combine that with the Matchmaking Toggles post above you see 343i staff being freed up, players creating AND choosing the content they want to play while streamlining the overall system and resources at the same time. It increases the features to the players, increases the content and quality while enabling the developer control for security/QA/marketing/planning.
Latvian Hitman
Member
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
What I said was "Well you're fine with sprint, but others aren't, others being many of the most hardcore fans a franchise could have. Fun gameplay hinges on sprint for these players"
We're all hardcore fans, I know. I was using it to convey an extremity with players who are like us, but have a deeper passion towards sprint's exclusion from Halo.
EDIT:
A fellowship is in order. A fellowship of the
Halo
Prinz Eugn
Member
There is such a huge potential for 343i to basically crowdsource making their games better and more interesting through new maps and gametypes, but I think they're stuck in an asinine dev culture that doesn't realize that some fans can walk and chew gum at the same time.
But ugh, Waypoint. Ugh, Halo Channel. Just make it part of the interface of the damn game, not some fucking App I am never going to check because it's basically a commercial for things I have already bought.
The Henery
Member
Wait, people think we won't be getting a sprint toggle in CUSTOM games? You can change your jump height to 200% and make the game only count headshots - disabling sprint would be nothing. Halo 4 failed to include this option and the shitstorm raged for months. Crucially, in one of Frankie's more revealing posts in the post-Halo 4 period, he said the biggest thing they learned from that game was to give players more options as to how they wanted to play the game. I'd be surprised if the custom game suite in H5 wasnt hugely expanded, and that includes the ability to disable sprint.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
AnonomissX
Banned
What? Let the player design in game the way they want to play? Let them curate and share Forge maps and gametypes with the entire multiplayer population? Let players loose and search for the kind of customs they want, in existing lobbies?
I now know what the tear is for, a glorious vision of what should have been...what CAN be if Microsoft pulls their head out of their ass.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
I would've thought this was obvious looking at pre H4 titles but better late than never.
I want to know why they made Sprint unlimited. I haven't played Call of Duty games in a while, but even then you could only sprint short bursts unless you had a perk like marathon pro or something.
Even in Halo 4, it's small bursts unless you have the mobility perk. So why is it universal and unlimited sprint in Halo 5? I think this is something that will have to do with the massive maps coming for BTB/vehicles.
Also, if you think sprint discussion is pointless and that people are delusional to wanting it removed, wanting motion tracker gone is even more delusional.
Even in Halo 4, it's small bursts unless you have the mobility perk. So why is it universal and unlimited sprint in Halo 5? I think this is something that will have to do with the massive maps coming for BTB/vehicles.
Also, if you think sprint discussion is pointless and that people are delusional to wanting it removed, wanting motion tracker gone is even more delusional.
Would anyone honestly be surprised if it wasn't there though?
what are you talking about? Spectator is only for those not playing.
AnonomissX
Banned
Remember when Bungie showed Forge in Reach, and basically said they loved the community creativity, and couldn't wait to see what we did with the new tools they gave us?
I noticed they want to be the cool kids at 343i-look at this cool game Halo 4 we made just for you out of the heart of our bottoms. After The Master Chief collection dropped, the only satisfaction I get from that is they got so much blowback the egg crusted on their face.
And now, lip service, nerfed tools, missing game modes, missing weapons, and...well crap. I just remembered - they hired devs who hated Halo. Can Microsoft just drop in en masse, line up every employee who hated Halo before they were hired and fire at them, I mean, show them the door? And have Certain Affinity run the MCC reboot and matchmaking?
The Henery
Member
They won't remove motion tracker but they should absolutely look at overhauling it. As it currently exists, it is a significant hinderence to the sped up, rocket propelled horn locking that the tenor of the fraternity fist pumping in the games' surrounding context suggests they are going for. Frat boys on steroids wearing Buzz Lightyear suits do not bend the knee, ala the off tracker crouch walker.
did you actually read the quote or just skim it?
The Henery
Member
343 being 343? K 2 tha appa
I like this post
I guess I misinterpreted your post. Sorry bro.
It's completely bullshit and they should just make it something you can do from within the game. Don't see why this can be done.
Probably ties in to the maps and gameplay having more mobility. While the mobility isn't quite on this level, Titanfall had unlimited sprint as well and for good reason. Constantly stopping mid parkour run would've been balls. But again the parkour system justified and Halo 5 hasn't really reached that.
And whats to stop a team of 4 having a 5th person spectate and give call-outs to that team in party chat? Thats why the delay is there.
Nothing can surprise me anymore...
And have a 2 colored Single Player and MP? All they can do, is grey and brown anyways.
Sorry, but all the maps CA have done are straight up terrible. Even the H2A maps are the worst I've seen, because of the ugly color filters and the lack of popping colors.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Watch what you say, or Halo 5 will have a bug that overheats the Xbone and literally burns down your house.
Wouldn't I be able to sue the crap out of 343i if that happens? Pretty sure my insurance would cover that, as well.
Joking aside, "nothing" is obviously an exeggeration.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I tune in to these shows from time to time but I had to close it when it got to the part about sprint e.g. no one has ever posted a why sprint is good or 100% of people who like sprint are clueless.
Here's the thing, sprint works for other modes beyond symmetrical hyper competitive small-mid maps only. Anything with an objective or vehicles or mid to large and sprint works.
As a solo or buddy-up party player sprint works as I respawn and can get to the action where I need to be. Especially CTF or bomb games for example. In BTB I can use sprint to dodge vehicles or cover open ground etc. In Reach/4 BTB I could use terrain, movement, awareness, radar stealth and sprint to deal with any vehicle. Far more than Halo 3 or 2 for example.
Sprint doesn't equate to noob play all the time, it's a different style of play. So when you hear comments like "you're so negative about the game" to me it's more a case of y'all having blinders on that Halo is only one type of play, your competitive zone.
For H2/3 and even future games when it's 2v2 or 4v4 I can live with no sprint, sure it's cool and it works. When I look at solo play in matchmaking, not a LAN MLG tourney, I like sprint in 4v4 or 5v5 CTF. I use the risk of getting to the part of the map I need to be at to make a difference.
After playing the H5 beta sprint to me works with the rest of the movement sandbox and its in-built penalties as well.
Anyhow I hope you find the feedback useful (from someone who can live with and without sprint all the same) and plays a variety of modes.
It really annoys me when people say stuff like "oh, you like this one feature that I don't like? Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about". I mean, get over yourself.
I agree though, I think sprint works really well with BTB. Playing BTB in the older Halos almost feels like a chore now. Spawn away from the action without a vehicle? Enjoy the two minutes of jogging around looking for people. It's just really dull.