Split screen ruined a lot of stuff for Reach didnt it?
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Halo |OT| HaloGAF Evolved
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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Split screen ruined a lot of stuff for Reach didnt it?
Including splitscreen.
All that really happened is instead of holding people back like they did for Sandbox, Bungie let you go turboderp with Forge World's budget. You can still make good maps and concepts in Reach forge for 4 split, but certain groups and people always want to use like 9500$ to make a map. It was impossible to make a map that hurt 4 split in Halo 3 because Bungie prevented you from doing so (ignoring the budget glitch). The fact that budget glitched maps usually tanked 4 split in Halo 3, and the fact that Halo 3 had no capability to limit local players for a playlist probably played a part in budget glitched maps being banned from submission via ATLAS.
Maybe the game should have warned you when you go past 5000$ that your performance for split screen users may suffer. As it is, Asylum is considered the lowest you can go for splitscreen performance for matchmaking. Far Cry did the same thing: they let you go all out with maps, but there was a performance meter at the top right in the map editor that tells you "Hmm, maybe 100 trains and 50 villages on your map isn't such a great idea". If they had cut the available budget down to 5,000$ for FW, people would have just complained about a limited budget. They probably figured people were going to try to budget glitch (like they did in 3) anyway, so they just let you get within setting your 360 on fire.
That being said, the thing that would get me to preorder Halo 4 would be the announcement of a Far Cry-esque map editor with heightmap editing and the ability to bake in proper lighting.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I was going in solo and kept getting vanilla.
The TU AR is also pretty damn overpowered.Barrow Roll
Member
Overdoziz seems to think you're wrong.
Well we were running a full party and the vote still usually swung like 5-1 or something like that in TU's favor. Didn't play a single Vanilla game.I was going in solo and kept getting vanilla.
They were plagued with horrific spawns. Not sure what MLG did to correct anything in Narrows for its spawns, but everything non-MLG it is a horror show. As for Construct, I only felt it playable under MLG King rules. The spawns, weapon layout, hundreds of grenades lying around the map lol, ugh, so bad.
HiredN00bs
Member
When I was playing, TU wouldn't even be an option, even if we went to a second voting round. Did they fix it?
Just did a TS match, 1st option Slayer Zealot / Elite Slayer Zealot, 2nd option Slayer Uncaged / Slayer DMRs Uncaged. How is the TU going to win the vote when it's doesn't show up at all?
The Librarian
Banned
What, both of them?
I keed, I keed
I'm not sure a post on HBO will make any difference at all at this late stage - but I posted it anyway.
(I definitely don't want you going to a tournament with a team name like Louis Wu's Filthy Whores if you win.)Dude - it's WAY old. Like almost 3 years old.
I wish I could find that one dude's quote because it so perfectly described Halo playtesting. Something like, "Bungie/343 plays at a level where moving the analog sticks on a controller is considered a victory, then decides what's fun for them is best for everyone".
Could someone for once actually give a shit about the state of Halo matchmaking other than the playerbase? There's about 14 people who still care about Halo, maybe now's the time to finally give people what they want instead of having this bizarre puritanical view of the ~*golden trifecta/30 seconds of fun/AR/Bungie's vision*~
Barrow Roll
Member
Didn't know there was anything to fix. Every game was Option 1: Vanilla and Option 2: TU.
squidhands
Member
Ah, the youth of the world. One day you will learn that Democracy is only an illusion of choice.
HiredN00bs
Member
Nevermind then, my mistake, it's always been a choice between Vanilla and TU for me too! *cough*
I used to share leaked content with the community, then I took a Defiant map pack in the knee.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Ah that sucks, I hated when one nade would kill me in the beta. I know the Bungie guys said it never happened, but it happened loads.
Reach is pretty aweful when it comes to nades, theres no precision or placement just lob and hope for the best. I got an extermination just by lobbing 2 nades, that should never happen.
Long live Halo 3 nades.
GraveHorizon
poop meter feature creep
They should add cooking for grenades.
Was already considered for Halo 2 and cut
edit: well, not cook before you throw, but they played around with the idea of being able to throw a grenade and it wouldn't detonate as long as you held the trigger down. Basically the idea behind the current pro pipe
HiredN00bs
Member
And Aim-Down Sights.
Remember that democracy allows everyone to vote. And not everyone is sane, far from it.
bobs...onGaf
Member
The biggest problem with democracy is actually getting people to vote. For example all the people who dislike Vanilla Reach are hardly going to go into a playlist where there are 50/50 odds of playing settings they dislike.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Being able to coock grenades would make the game even more random. You never know when the grenade will explode. Doesn't sound very fun to me.
ElzarTheBam
Member
squidhands
Member
They did, and perfected it with the Grenade Launcher. Here's to hoping that it makes a triumphant return in Halo 4.
Gabotron ES
Member
That would be do nice, I think everybody will be pretty dissapointed if we get a damn MEGA BLOKS set instead of a proper map editor.
Hydranockz
Member
You'd only be disappointed if you expect a proper map editor.
I expect a mega block set that doesn't break framerate as easily as it did in Reach. Any less than that and I will be disappointed. Do we really have any reason to expect a full on proper map editor? No.
To be honest, I was hoping Reach would have one. But as soon as we found out they were re-writing the engine, I pretty much assumed we were going to get an upgraded Forge. That being said, it was a really good update. I go into Halo 3 Forge and am all "FUCKING BLOCK STOP FUCKING MOVING JESUS CHRIST HOW DID I TOLERATE THIS *dashboard*". But if MS is going to continue this pattern of lame DLC support (two packs out the gate, then one released a year or more later after everyone has moved on) we need better tools for the community to shore up their DLC offerings.
Far Cry 2's editor is so good I honestly don't know anyone that bought it's paid DLC maps. That might be a scary thought for MS.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Its simple. You bundle the DLC maps with armor and more items/textures/w.e for forge world and patch them into the .maps via a ppf style system?
Forge Word 3.0 gets updates along with the user getting new maps and armor.
Random isn't the word you're looking for.
Captain Blood
Member
I didn't get a chance to play with the the Far Cry 2 editor but Eazy's Farhalla map was rad.
The map editor trailer, which just scratches the surface:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8qa-naczjg
Keep in mind this is 360 footage. It's 20$ on steam right now for PC, which is the version I have because the 360 version didn't have Legacy sticks.
edit: and it even has tricks. People figured out how to make elevators (this shows the ability to copy/paste and group copy/paste)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhXvXb1PxqQ&feature=related
squidhands
Member
There is a reason; the first two attempts at Forge left it's users with little room to make a quality map that's fit for long-term matchmaking status. Reach tried to add to the features that were added late to H3, but it fell short in a lot of obvious areas like framerate and an extremely monotone color set. It would be a very safe bet to make that the Forging audience have matured enough to move on to something beyond searching for a spot to put their blocks.
The main reason I think we won't get much more than an update on Reach's Forge is familiarity. Virtually anyone can do something with Forge by now (like moving weapons and spawns), so I don't think 343 will take that ability away from everyone with a complex map editor. Ideally, I'd love to see something akin to the original Forge in H3 that only allowed for weapon, spawn, and gametype tweaks on the shipping maps, and a separate editor that was able to incorporate the original Forge while giving more adept users a real chance to make a map that could stand with the professionals in matchmaking. Dare to dream...
Hydranockz
Member
Do you kind of mean like having Basic Forge and Advanced Forge? Wasn't there something like that in Reach or did it just not change much?
Gabotron ES
Member
What I'd do is: give the editor a BTB/Invasion/Mini game approach snd keep releasing 4v4 and arena like maps via DLC.
I'll get into further detail but the new editor should get these points right.
-Terrain editor.
-Accurated day time changes.
-DLC support (including new pieces and features).
-Scripted events (Invasion phantoms moving and exploding, gates...).
Tha Robbertster
Member
What word would I be looking for then?
Players would be more unpredictable, but in no way would it be random. It's player controlled.
The Real Napsta
Member
LOL no, You couldn't even spawn with nades on Backwash. That map is the biggest turd in almost all of Halo.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Okay, I see what you mean. I think my point came across though.
You will never have something like the Far Cry 2 Map Editor in Halo (console game) because Microsoft (and 343 Industries) won't be able to sell DLC (maps) anymore, 'cause players could recreate themself those DLC.
They could sell textures and objects DLC, but it wont work, and they know.
They could sell textures and objects DLC, but it wont work, and they know.
Release the editor as a DLC. You can play the maps, but in order to edit geometry, you have to pay for it. Purchase Limited/Legendary edition and you get the code in your package. Now you've boosted sales for Limited and Legendary as well as making users of the standard buy a code if they want to actually edit the geometry. Standard users will still be able to do the basics of Forge like moving weapons, equipment, and spawns.
I too don't think cooking grenades would be viable in Halo. I can't imagine it.
The GL is a great compromise and I agree with the general sentiment to bring it, or its function as a weapon, back in H4.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Agreed, the grenade launcher is a power weapon so there are only one or two people walking around with one at a given time while everyone spawns with 2 grenades.
squidhands
Member
That's pretty much what I mean. Basic Forge is only allowed for the shipping maps (please gods, no more Forged maps passed off as a shipping map), Advanced Forge for actually creating maps.
It's foolish to think that people won't buy brand new, professionally made maps. What the community would add is longevity and variety in between DLC ships. As StalkerUKCG already said, you could only add to potential DLC items with different textures and skins for the editor.
Gabotron ES
Member
Isn't 343 all for what the fans want?
If they show us MEGA BLOKS 2.0 people will start asking themselves what 343 has been doing for the past three years.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Yeah maybe the people who expect miracles.
To be honest im not expecting more than a mega blocks mode. Far Cry 2 had a fantastic map editor, but look at the rest of the game, it sucked. 343 need to make the core of the gameplay good before they can focus on the extra fringe stuff like a fully blown map editor. I would assume that the resources and planning to intergrate the Far Cry editor meant that the rest of the game suffered.
I just cant think of a time where I have ever played a forge map in matchmaking that I have enjoyed. Its a good mode to mess around in and its a fantastic mode for what it does for customs. But the bread and butter of Halo 4 would be better off without investing heavily into it.
ElzarTheBam
Member
This cannot be stressed more.
HiredN00bs
Member
343 Industries is Microsoft.
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