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[Devolution]

I had no idea the magnetism was that strong.

Yeah then you scope out of the DMR and it's fucking garbage. Hence fighting ARs being a pain in the ass with one.

 

[Trey]

You're talking as if CE didn't have the most balanced weapon sandbox in the game. The good players could utilize every single weapon on the map. And the pistol forced people to actually be proficient at power weps lest they get fucked by the 3sk. Subsequent Halos made certain weapons in the sandbox useless or only viable as part of a dual wield.

I'm not.

Weapon balance isn't the linear process you seem to believe it is. It's much easier to have a role for each weapon when the starting weapon is so effective at all ranges. That means each player is a threat all throughout the game. This allows power weapons to be so powerful because the battles to get them would be decisive, and even when had there were no guaranteed kills because the pistol was so effective.

The 3SK was a feat because you had to accomodate what the player would do to throw off your aim, not the mechanics of the game. That dynamic lessened as Halo went on. Which is what I was talking about when I said the game should be primarily balanced against the players and not the mechanics of the game. If you make player to player interaction work, everything else falls into line easier.

 

[HiredN00bs]

How are 2 ARs vs one DMR part of a discussion about balance? I keep seeing people mention it.

In my quest for AR kills, I usually drop shields with a DMR, Pistol, or Plasma Pistol first, but now and then I'll use just the AR, and sometimes won't even kill a guy with a single clip, despite following him closely with my reticule. I don't know this mythical weapon you guys are talking about.

 

[daedalius]

The speed at which the shields recharge, especially in pistol games, is gross.

Shield recharge in Reach is just garbage, who the hell OK'd that change? Oh right, same people who thought bloom was great. <foaming.gif>

 

[Homeboyd]

How are 2 ARs vs one DMR part of a discussion about balance? I keep seeing people mention it.

Word on the streets is you can dual wield ARs in H4... And triple wield BRs.

 

[kylej]

I've decided to stop reading HaloGAF and use the chatbox on TwitchTV Halo streams for all of my Halo discussion.

haters gonna hate. TwitchTV chat is the GOAT form of discussion. Watching "Naded's abandoned son" argue about Ron Paul, or weed, or bitches, or how [MLG player] sucks, or how [MLG player] is SHITTING, with "Clutchs big nose" yammering back at him is absolutely hilarious.

 

[Trey]

Trey, you're not wrong, but I think you are significantly underestimating the importance of difficulty to use and its relation to potential kill times of weapons.

The difficulty curve of the 3SK in CE was *almost entirely dependent on what your opponent did to throw off your aim. That's what made it difficult.

Defensive options (strafe, crouch, jump) were muted throughout the series. To compensate, weapons were weakened, impacting player to player interaction and making it more like beating the minigame faster than your opponent.

*There is still execution required to 3SK. Never argued there wasn't. But it was at a level where it took some skill to use, but didn't guarantee a kill if you mastered it. You had to earn it by beating your opponent, not the game.

 

[Devolution]

How are 2 ARs vs one DMR part of a discussion about balance? I keep seeing people mention it.

In my quest for AR kills, I usually drop shields with a DMR, Pistol, or Plasma Pistol first, but now and then I'll use just the AR, and sometimes won't even kill a guy with a single clip, despite following him closely with my reticule. I don't know this mythical weapon you guys are talking about.

Two people with ARs and that magnetism is insta-kill. In a franchise in which people are used to being able to take out two trigger spamming idiots, it's a bummer. Reach implemented a whole bunch of unnecessary shit and lowered the god damn bar when it comes to outwitting players.

 

[Hydranockz]

Two people with ARs and that magnetism is insta-kill. In a franchise in which people are used to being able to take out two trigger spamming idiots, it's a bummer. Reach implemented a whole bunch of unnecessary shit and lowered the god damn bar when it comes to outwitting players.

Two people with DMRs is any different?

 

[CyReN]

The fact that you could implement a quick crouch into your strafe to avoid a 3sk in Halo CE makes it the best Halo ever.

They had to dumb it down

 

[Booshka]

The difficulty curve of the 3SK in CE was *almost entirely dependent on what your opponent did to throw off your aim. That's what made it difficult.

Defensive options (strafe, crouch, jump) were muted throughout the series. To compensate, weapons were weakened, impacting player to player interaction and making it more like beating the minigame faster than your opponent.

*There is still execution required to 3SK. Never argued there wasn't. But it was at a level where it took some skill to use, but didn't guarantee a kill if you mastered it. You had to earn it by beating your opponent, not the game.

But the mechanics of the game are what made the player to player interaction more skilled. The player movement and inertia mechanics, aim assist and magnetism mechanics are all related to how players fought each other. You can make the DMR a 3 or 4 shot kill, but it takes far less skill to do it in Reach because the game's mechanics don't reward or punish the player as severely as Halo CE's did.

Any game is about beating the opponent, but the rules of the game affect how you play your opponent. I don't see how you can separate the two.

 

[Overdoziz]

They had to dumb it down

Probably has more to do with online play than anything.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The difficulty curve of the 3SK in CE was *almost entirely dependent on what your opponent did to throw off your aim. That's what made it difficult.

Defensive options (strafe, crouch, jump) were muted throughout the series. To compensate, weapons were weakened, impacting player to player interaction and making it more like beating the minigame faster than your opponent.

*There is still execution required to 3SK. Never argued there wasn't. But it was at a level where it took some skill to use, but didn't guarantee a kill if you mastered it. You had to earn it by beating your opponent, not the game.

Correct, although I would argue that there was more to the difficultly then your opponents options that you do.

The reason I originally used the CE Magnum as an example though was to illustrate the point that a weapon that is more difficult to reason (through a variety of factors) should have a faster potential kill time than some bullet hose.

 

[Booshka]

Two people with DMRs is any different?

Yes, especially with No Bloom DMR's

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=23870793&player=Booshka

 

[Devolution]

Two people with DMRs is any different?

This a real question or do you like missing the point.

Yes, especially with No Bloom DMR's

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=23870793&player=Booshka

Them dudes got told.

 

[Plywood]

Probably has more to do with online play than anything.

HOPE

 

[feel]

I hate those situations where 7 plasma pistol users pwn me.

 

[thezerofire]

The speed at which the shields recharge, especially in pistol games, is gross.

not to mention how few bullets the pistol has.

 

[Plywood]

not to mention how few bullets the pistol has.

Adding another bullet would break the sandbox bro! WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.

 

[Devolution]

Why do you kids want to be able to kill people before you reload? Adapt.

 

[Trey]

But the mechanics of the game are what made the player to player interaction more skilled. The player movement and inertia mechanics, aim assist and magnetism mechanics are all related to how players fought each other. You can make the DMR a 3 or 4 shot kill, but it takes far less skill to do it in Reach because the game's mechanics don't reward or punish the player as severely as Halo CE's did.

Any game is about beating the opponent, but the rules of the game affect how you play your opponent. I don't see how you can separate the two.

They did. But there was harmony in CE that gave great power to everyone, and enough defensive options that people would sort it out themselves based primarily upon what they did. Your movement contributed more heavily to your survival in CE than in other Halos. You made them miss.

It takes far [citation needed] less skill in Reach because both players are fighting the game to see who gets more shots in the other one more than each other.

The reason I originally used the CE Magnum as an example though was to illustrate the point that a weapon that is more difficult to reason (through a variety of factors) should have a faster potential kill time than some bullet hose.

I would prefer that potential to be a function of a player's skill versus an opponent's skill rather than purely dependent on the player's proficiency with said weapon.

 

[Plywood]

And I still say Reach pistol should have the same reticle as the DMR.

 

[Tawpgun]

Yes, especially with No Bloom DMR's

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=23870793&player=Booshka

At the end it says Frankie killed Overdoziz.

No bloom confirmed for being casual noob friendly.

Two people with ARs and that magnetism is insta-kill. In a franchise in which people are used to being able to take out two trigger spamming idiots, it's a bummer. Reach implemented a whole bunch of unnecessary shit and lowered the god damn bar when it comes to outwitting players.

You mean raised the bar.

Now you can outwit people by picking jetpack, evade, sprint, armor lock and more! You just need to know when to press LB. It's skill and strategy that made Halo Reach deeper than any other Halo game before it.

 

[Devolution]

You mean raised the bar.

Now you can outwit people by picking jetpack, evade, sprint, armor lock and more! You just need to know when to press LB. It's skill and strategy that made Halo Reach deeper than any other Halo game before it.

It's pretty much like WoW at this point. Dude I outwitted people at the character select screen. I da best.

 

[The Real Napsta]

I wish they could have made the pistol have a 12 shot magazine in the title update. It would help the game across the board.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Shishka in August 2011: Needle Rifle is not appropriate for 85% bloom gametypes.

Reach in February 2012: Needle Rifle can be found in just about every playlist with TU gametypes.

 

[Devolution]

Shishka in August 2011: Needle Rifle is not appropriate for 85% bloom gametypes.

Reach in February 2012: Needle Rifle can be found in just about every playlist with TU gametypes.

Nothing is appropriate for anything. Whole game sucks. Scrap the shit. Where's my Halo 4.

::throws rattle on the floor::

 

[thezerofire]

Nothing is appropriate for anything. Whole game sucks. Scrap the shit. Where's my Halo 4.

::throws rattle on the floor::

I'd be down, but I like playing with gaf kids too much. Can we all get something nice like CS 1.6 and play that together instead?

 

[The Real Napsta]

Shishka in August 2011: Needle Rifle is not appropriate for 85% bloom gametypes.

Reach in February 2012: Needle Rifle can be found in just about every playlist with TU gametypes.

Shishka was wrong, obviously.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

So, not to read into things too deeply, but this image from toy fair stood out.

Notice he is missing his right shoulder piece? Now this could be a toy manufacturing error, or it could be a swappable piece like past toys. If his shoulders are indeed swappable it may be a hint of what to expect either in SP or MP.

 

[Overdoziz]

Isn't the needle rifle a pick-up anyway in 99.99% of the playlists anyway? Big whoop.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Shishka was wrong, obviously.

That's what I've been trying to tell you guys.

Isn't the needle rifle a pick-up anyway in 99.99% of the playlists anyway? Big whoop.

I've using it in my TU escapades. It's a 6 shot-kill (w/bleedthrough), effectively no bloom, and boy, does it have some wicked auto-aim.

But the TU doesn't unbalance the sandbox, copy.

 

[The Real Napsta]

That's what I've been trying to tell you guys.

Why are you telling us Shishka was wrong about the NR? We already know this. It's fine.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Why are you telling us Shishka was wrong about the NR? We already know this. It's fine.

I see you trollin'
I hatin'

 

[Overdoziz]

That's what I've been trying to tell you guys.




I've using it in my TU escapades. It's a 6 shot-kill (w/bleedthrough), effectively no bloom, and boy, does it have some wicked auto-aim.

But the TU doesn't unbalance the sandbox, copy.

It makes automatic rifles worse which is fine by me.

 

[FyreWulff]

The AR is now underpowered as a starting weapon and overpowered as a starting weapon? :lol

 

[thezerofire]

The AR is now underpowered as a starting weapon and overpowered as a starting weapon? :lol

it's just not fun, that's what it is.

 

[The Henery]

Huh, thought I had at least a 1.75 or so with the GL (only 1.67).

I don't consider it a PW in the sense that no one rushes or fights for it like the others. I'd put it on the same level as the needler

Spoiler

which I suck with

. It's definitely my trusty companion in FFA on Swordbase though.

Definitely a power weapo imo.

Looks the most like the Halo 3 AR I think. *Shudder*

The Reach AR looks so much better than the 3 and CE one.

I don't really give a shit about the armor.

Exactly. The armour looks great anyway but if you don't like it, you don't even see it outside of cutscenes and theatre mode. The presence of an AR in these shots is far more outrageous yet there's a lot less hoopla???

Exactly. What's the point in living in a country with a democracy when you'll just hate people who don't vote the same way you will?

Artist or not, Marty can be as 'wrong' or 'right' has he wants to be and you should respect his differing views either way.

Agreed. I disagree with Martys view but people need to respect his opinion. GAF is pathetic in this regard; it's why I don't post in other topics on this site (I only joined for HaloGAF anyway) because you can literally get banned for having the 'wrong opinion'. Not for posting hateful, racist, sexist, baldist etc shit but for the incorrect opinion.

Automatic weapons need to stay, they are fine.

If you get killed with an AR, you got killed with an AR, someone used it in a better situation than you could have used your BR in.

Besides close range spamming a single shot gun takes about as much skill as spamming an AR.

AR's are fun, people like them, they add variety.

This is what happens when bk's don't have access to AR's

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=26569028&player=The Henery

Also, AR's are the opposite of fun. No personality or learning curve to the weapon whatsoever.

How come most people don't know the difference between "it's" and"its" ?

The 'where' and 'were' imbroglio is worse.

How about no. Given the nature of bloom and people who strafe it takes more skill to use a precision weapon upclose than it does using a gun that has this level of bullet magentism.

Dat video. Never forget. What a joke.

 

[Overdoziz]

The AR is now underpowered as a starting weapon and overpowered as a starting weapon? :lol

Who said that?

 

[Fracas]

I got back into Halo 3 last night. No bloom, no nuclear grenades, no jerks camping behind walls with active camo and shotgun, no melee dashes, no jetpacking morons...

What in the hell happened, Reach?

And wow, I didn't know how ridiculous the bullet magnetism with the AR was

 

[Steelyuhas]

it's just not fun, that's what it is.

Yeah that's really my main issue with it. It is the most uninspired, uninteresting weapon out there with a complete lack of depth.

It badly needs an overhaul. I mean come on, at least give it recoil or something to at least give the player something to do.

 

[FyreWulff]

How about no. Given the nature of bloom and people who strafe it takes more skill to use a precision weapon upclose than it does using a gun that has this level of bullet magentism.

Every gun in Reach has massive bullet magnetism. You can fire the ZBNR at someone's crotch and get a headshot. The ZB and crouched 85% DMR/NRs near the same. The unmodified DMR and NR have strong magnetism like that. Even if the AR has that much, it's still not headshot capable. We're playing an FPS with joysticks after all.

 

[CyReN]

I got back into Halo 3 last night. No bloom, no nuclear grenades, no jerks camping behind walls with active camo and shotgun, no melee dashes, no jetpacking morons...

What in the hell happened, Reach?

We had a false prophet.

We endured his evil ways of "bloom" and "grey", but now we have a new leader, one of the boys, a legend. A guy that's there for the community and development team.

We are about to see Franksanity come March 5th.

 

[HiredN00bs]

It makes automatic rifles worse which is fine by me.

It also significantly bests the DMR.

 

[Ramirez]

That's what I've been trying to tell you guys.

.

But no one cares, that's what you're missing.

 

[Overdoziz]

It also significantly bests the DMR.

Your point?

 

[Steelyuhas]

It also significantly bests the DMR.

Oh no! I covy weapon is actually not a piece of shit! Everyone panic!

 

[TheOddOne]

Overdoz1z, look at how much fun I had playing Elite Slayer. So good.



In other non-trolling news, why are there only two options now to choose for Slayer?

Also too much DMR types are listed.

 

[Blue Ninja]

We are about to see Franksanity come March 5th.

What's on March 5th? I thought the MS event was February 29th.

 

[HiredN00bs]

But no one cares, that's what you're missing.

Oh, it's quite obvious game balance isn't a concern to many here. There are still some who care.