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[ElRenoRaven]

Wow, sorry I brought up politics lolololol

It's ok Heckfu we all still love you anyway. Well ok everyone except David cause apparently you've been stalking him asking for beard tips.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Frankie could walk onto the stage on the 29th, say, "BR/AR starts in all playlists." and sit down. It would be the best Halo reveal ever.

There will be no stage...

 

[ElzarTheBam]

As someone with a Poli Sci degree and currently in a graduate environmental politics course, I can tell you that talking politics isn't fun until people start threatening other people's lives. That's when shit gets good.

I did politics in college, and what you say is very true, use to love political debates, LOB!

 

[Hydranockz]

Ease of use is one thing, the fact that someone with more skill utilizing the DMR can't outkill them most of the time is a problem.

Yeah, the player's problem. Not the game's.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

For the record, I am pro-Heckfu.

(I'd say I'm pro-Tashi as well, but everyone knows "Tashi" and "Pro" don't belong in the same sentence.)

Spoiler

<3

GAF is just over-sensitive this time of the month. Don't worry about it.

Our HaloGAF cycles are aligning.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Wow, sorry I brought up politics lolololol

GAF is just over-sensitive this time of the month. Don't worry about it.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Ease of use is one thing, the fact that someone with more skill utilizing the DMR can't outkill them most of the time is a problem.

This is important. If a weapon is significantly easier to use, then it needs to not have equal killing power when compared to a more difficult to use weapon if the more difficult weapon is used well. (this doesn't include power weapons)

An example is the pistol in CE. The pistol is incredibly powerful, but it is very difficult to use. If someone pulls off a perfect 3sk, then they aren't going to lose many combat scenarios. It is very difficult to pull off a 3sk though.

 

[Devolution]

Yeah, the player's problem. Not the game's.

Nope. It's an issue of balance. The distance the AR can be utilized or multiple ARs on a person is pretty shit. I'd say it's more of a problem with the DMR itself though, since you have to actually pace the damn thing while someone can just hold down the AR trigger and voila, a kill for the AR player. Reach is pretty much lowest common denominator play style while ironically trying to make the game more complex and adding in shit like bloom.

 

[The Real Napsta]

MLG is testing Powerhouse:

http://www.twitch.tv/mcstrongside

 

[Sean P.]

I rehashed one of my old posts into a thread on Halo Reddit to critique Reach, especially in comparison to the Halo 3 I've started playing again recently.

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/pnqvy/reach_the_current_death_of_halo/

 

[Overdoziz]

I rehashed one of my old posts into a thread on Halo Reddit to critique Reach, especially in comparison to the Halo 3 I've started playing again recently.

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/pnqvy/reach_the_current_death_of_halo/

With a title like that you're asking for trouble.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Ease of use is one thing, the fact that someone with more skill utilizing the DMR can't outkill them most of the time is a problem.

wat

The DMR rocks the AR in Reach 1.0, and even moreso in Reach 1.1. The pistol is faster, but the bloom/spread/lag makes it less reliable on a charging opponent.

still don't know the context of that simpsons gif

Which one?

 

[CyReN]

I just can't put MLG gametypes and Powerhouse together in my head, maybe I need to play it instead of watch.

 

[Hydranockz]

Nope. It's an issue of balance. The distance the AR can be utilized or multiple ARs on a person is pretty shit. I'd say it's more of a problem with the DMR itself though, since you have to actually pace the damn thing while someone can just hold down the AR trigger and voila, a kill for the AR player. Reach is pretty much lowest common denominator play style while ironically trying to make the game more complex and adding in shit like bloom.

AR is great at short distance though. The DMR is a medium-long distance weapon. That is why you never see an AR beat a DMR on Blood Gulch and it's why the AR can be great on Countdown for killing dudes with a DMR. The DMR should never be great in every scenario which is what Halo's 2-weapon system achieves.

Why does everyone think the DMR should be a beast up close? The only problem the DMR has, if anything, is the cross-mapping it can do and the rate at which it can do it. Bullet spread negated that aspect of a BR. Bloom kind of does it if the player keeps firing but all they have to do is wait and it'll be a case of lining up the shots.

The AR should win up close, hands down. You'd expect the same from the spiker, plasma repeaters and plasma rifles. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see why precision weapons should get the same effectiveness at short range.

 

[Sean P.]

With a title like that you're asking for trouble.

Originally I was going to post it in a separate gaming subreddit where it would just garner some attention over just another Halo thread, but then I decided to put it in /r/halo instead. Guess I coulda changed it

 

[Steelyuhas]

I just can't put MLG gametypes and Powerhouse together in my head, maybe I need to play it instead of watch.

So much better and putting MLG gametypes and shitty forge maps on your head.

Really hoping powerhouse gets its shot.

Awesome gif Sean haha

 

[thezerofire]

I understand, I ran into this the other night. I actually asked heckfu and zerofire straight up if they could name something the game got right. Seems like everything has a flaw.

pro pipe was all I could come up with

I rehashed one of my old posts into a thread on Halo Reddit to critique Reach, especially in comparison to the Halo 3 I've started playing again recently.

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/pnqvy/reach_the_current_death_of_halo/

I learned long ago to never go on r/halo. It's like all the worst b.net kids in one place.

 

[Hydranockz]

I learned long ago to never go on r/halo. It's like all the worst b.net kids in one place.

So... it's like b.net?

 

[Sean P.]

I learned long ago to never go on r/halo. It's like all the worst b.net kids in one place.

I think you'd be pretty hard pressed these days to find a more defensive group of people hah

 

[Devolution]

AR is great at short distance though. The DMR is a medium-long distance weapon. That is why you never see an AR beat a DMR on Blood Gulch and it's why the AR can be great on Countdown for killing dudes with a DMR. The DMR should never be great in every scenario which is what Halo's 2-weapon system achieves.

Why does everyone think the DMR should be a beast up close? The only problem the DMR has, if anything, is the cross-mapping it can do and the rate at which it can do it. Bullet spread negated that aspect of a BR. Bloom kind of does it if the player keeps firing but all they have to do is wait and it'll be a case of lining up the shots.

The AR should win up close, hands down. You'd expect the same from the spiker, plasma repeaters and plasma rifles. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see why precision weapons should get the same effectiveness at short range.

I don't think it should beast up close. I think if you're more proficient with a difficult weapon that should beat out someone spamming a trigger. Reach has a very flawed balance and rewards awful playing. And I've been shot pretty damn well with the AR from a medium range, and I've also done it. Not to mention that two on one person even from medium range is hilarious. But once again that's also a bloom problem. When someone has to pace with the dmr and someone can just run up with an AR or melee, there is a problem. The game is either QUICK FAST or SLOW AS FUCK. There is no central rhythm to this game. At least they added in melee bleedthrough. The fact that it was absent was terrible fucking game design.

 

[Overdoziz]

I don't care if the AR is balanced or not, it's just a boring weapon that causes nothing but bad gameplay. Make them a pick-up or whatever, but for the love of god don't let people spawn with them.

 

[Hydranockz]

I don't care if the AR is balanced or not, it's just a boring weapon that causes nothing but bad gameplay.

Then rest on your laurels that you're a better player than most. That should be enough for your ego.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I don't care if the AR is balanced or not, it's just a boring weapon that causes nothing but bad gameplay.

If there was a like button I would press it right now.

Ive also noticed that friends who dont really understand Halo, play a game, start with an AR, think the games a bit naff and then give up on it not realising that there are good precision weapons.

The AR might be easy to use and it may be a good starting weapon for beginners, but they should make games AR/BR starts. Beginners can use the easy weapon, everyone else can have fun with fun weapons. AR's also shouldnt be buffed just to make the game easier for beginners, thats trueskills job.

 

[Hydranockz]

Make them a pick-up or whatever, but for the love of god don't let people spawn with them.

What possible incentive is there for a player to drop a DMR (or any starting weapon) for an AR? The obvious answer is that the player isn't good with a DMR and wants something easier to use. In that case, you are making the bad players work harder to find their comfort zone. At least in AR starts you actually see the good players actively looking for DMRs or any other weapon.

 

[Devolution]

I don't care if the AR is balanced or not, it's just a boring weapon that causes nothing but bad gameplay. Make them a pick-up or whatever, but for the love of god don't let people spawn with them.

I honestly agree only because I've played with enough "noobs" to the game that either utilize it or switch to it, then complain about being wrecked by the DMR or the pistol. Halo 4 should just have either one starting weapon across all playlists or a specific playlist with machine gun style action that's sans precision weapons. The fucking WORST was every fucking game, start with AR, precision weapons on map. Players pick up precision weapons, own your face, still spawning with shit ass AR over here, spawn die spawn die. Please for the love of god don't fucking do this in YET ANOTHER GOD DAMN GAME.

 

[Trey]

This is important. If a weapon is significantly easier to use, then it needs to not have equal killing power when compared to a more difficult to use weapon if the more difficult weapon is used well. (this doesn't include power weapons)

An example is the pistol in CE. The pistol is incredibly powerful, but it is very difficult to use. If someone pulls off a perfect 3sk, then they aren't going to lose many combat scenarios. It is very difficult to pull off a 3sk though.

The difficulty of the kill should be primarily dependent on the opponent and not the inherent mechanics of the game.

 

[Overdoziz]

Then rest on your laurels that you're a better player than most. That should be enough for your ego.

I don't mean bad as in lower skilled (well, that too) but also just low-quality gameplay. I die a little inside every time I see two AR users run towards each other holding down their trigger and melee for the simultaneous death.

 

[Karl2177]

Make them a pick-up or whatever, but for the love of god don't let people spawn with them.

I've said this before. This is even an old version of my ideas.

 

[Hydranockz]

I don't mean bad as in lower skilled (well, that too) but also just low-quality gameplay. I die a little inside every time I see two AR users run towards each other holding down their trigger and melee for the simultaneous death.

I get where you're coming from and I shudder to think that's someone's idea of Halo. I just don't think you can just get rid of the AR completely and hope for anything better. If players can't run-and-gun and kill a player, as cheap as it might be, they'll stop playing. Some will try the DMR and might even be good with it but a lot of players will just walk away.

 

[Gui_PT]

How come most people don't know the difference between "it's" and"its" ?

 

[Steelyuhas]

The difficulty of the kill should be primarily dependent on the opponent and not the inherent mechanics of the game.

No, it absolutely should. Its what Halo was founded on. If you are not taking the difficulty to use a weapon into account when balancing the game, you are not balancing the game.

Every Halo game has done this, but Reach did it the least, and its an aspect of the game that people commonly don't like.

How come most people don't know the difference between "it's" and"its" ?

Typing on my phone. Not bothering to correct what it doesn't correct lol.

 

[Devolution]

The difficulty of the kill should be primarily dependent on the opponent and not the inherent mechanics of the game.

Why balance any weapons at all!

 

[ncsuDuncan]

How come most people don't know the difference between "it's" and"its" ?

Their not worried about grammer, I guess. Does it get on you're nerves?

 

[bobs...onGaf]

No, it absolutely should. Its what Halo was founded on. If you are not taking the difficulty to use a weapon into account when balancing the game, you are not balancing the game.

Every Halo game has done this, but Reach did it the least, and its an aspect of the game that people commonly don't like.

The idiot proof sniper is kind of proof of why gun difficulty is a good thing, I know some would disagree but I think the Reach snipers playlist is a horrible experience because its full of people hanging back waiting to let the autoaim do all the work for them.

When you have powerful guns, but make them hard to use tactics and map movement comes into play. When guns are easy it really just boils the gameplay down to who see's who first.

Weapon difficulty shouldnt be the primary way to balance Halo, but Reach was an example of the kind of gameplay that comes about when everythings easy.

 

[Devolution]

The idiot proof sniper is kind of proof of why gun difficulty is a good thing, I know some would disagree but I think the Reach snipers playlist is a horrible experience because its full of people hanging back waiting to let the autoaim do all the work for them.

When you have powerful guns, but make them hard to use tactics and map movement comes into play. When guns are easy it really just boils the gameplay down to who see's who first.

Weapon difficulty shouldnt be the primary way to balance Halo, but Reach was an example of the kind of gameplay that comes about when everythings easy.

Just make the rockets a nuke, give shotgun a bigger range, make homing missiles shoot out of the AR. I mean if you has the skillz what's the fucking problem.

 

[Booshka]

I've decided to stop reading HaloGAF and use the chatbox on TwitchTV Halo streams for all of my Halo discussion.















:trollface:

 

[Blue Ninja]

Happy birthday BlueNinja! (It's still your birthday, isn't it?)

Yup, for another two hours and 55 minutes.

 

[Hydranockz]

Yup, for another two hours and 55 minutes.

Happy Birthday to you!

 

[Trey]

No, it absolutely should. Its what Halo was founded on. If you are not taking the difficulty to use a weapon into account when balancing the game, you are not balancing the game.

Every Halo game has done this, but Reach did it the least, and its an aspect of the game that people commonly don't like.

Good thing I didn't say disregard execution. The primary goal of Halo is to kill other players, which means there should by dynamic interaction between both parties during battle. The balance of dexterity combined with defensive options was at its highest during CE. Battles in subsequent Halos became a pseudo race to see who could get fucked by the game less in confrontations.

 

[Plywood]

Besides close range spamming a single shot gun takes about as much skill as spamming an AR.

How about no. Given the nature of bloom and people who strafe it takes more skill to use a precision weapon upclose than it does using a gun that has this level of bullet magentism.

 

[Devolution]

Good thing I didn't say disregard execution. The primary goal of Halo is to kill other players, which means there should by dynamic interaction between both parties during battle. The balance of dexterity combined with defensive options was at its highest during CE. Battles in subsequent Halos became a pseudo race to see who could get fucked by the game less in confrontations.

You're talking as if CE didn't have the most balanced weapon sandbox in the game. The good players could utilize every single weapon on the map. And the pistol forced people to actually be proficient at power weps lest they get fucked by the 3sk. Subsequent Halos made certain weapons in the sandbox useless or only viable as part of a dual wield.

 

[Plywood]

Meanwhile Frankie has been hesitant to make his feelings about hair known to a wider audience. Instead, he glares menacingly towards Ellis' beardage. Ellis, sympathetic to Frankie's cause, reassures him that he is capable of growing a moderately appropriate beard. "Isn't that enough?" he asks Frank.

"No David! Putting on the pants is not simply enough! Somethin' up top generally helps!"

Like dis if u cryed
<///3

i cryed

why must i cry

Yup, for another two hours and 55 minutes.

Happy birthday!

 

[Miggytronz]

You're talking as if CE didn't have the most balanced weapon sandbox in the game. The good players could utilize every single weapon on the map. And the pistol forced people to actually be proficient at power weps lest they get fucked by the 3sk. Subsequent Halos made certain weapons in the sandbox useless or only viable as part of a dual wield.

totally agree.

 

[Hydranockz]

I was sickened the day I found out dual-wielding reduced the efficiency of both weapons to compensate.

 

[Booshka]

The fact that you could implement a quick crouch into your strafe to avoid a 3sk in Halo CE makes it the best Halo ever.

 

[Devolution]

The fact that you could implement a quick crouch into your strafe to avoid a 3sk in Halo CE makes it the best Halo ever.

I miss strafing so much. The anniversary playlists with the 3sk while playable, without a solid strafe it's just I SAW YOU FIRST more often than not.

 

[Steelyuhas]

You're talking as if CE didn't have the most balanced weapon sandbox in the game. The good players could utilize every single weapon on the map. And the pistol forced people to actually be proficient at power weps lest they get fucked by the 3sk. Subsequent Halos made certain weapons in the sandbox useless or only viable as part of a dual wield.

Agreed.

Trey, you're not wrong, but I think you are significantly underestimating the importance of difficulty to use and its relation to potential kill times of weapons.

 

[Havok]

The AR's current effectiveness just doesn't drop off sharply enough as it gets farther and farther outside of its ideal niche.

At this distance, a single AR user can strip the shields of a DMR user and take out two pips of health before the DMR user gets his fifth shot off (and this is with the TU gametype - a Vanilla pacer would have an even bigger problem).

Throw in a second dude spraying, that precision user would be dead in a flash and there's no way to handle that situation effectively despite it being outside of what I would consider to be "close range". The issue is then compounded by the extraordinarily slow shield recharge that Reach has, where taking on a second guy has to be put off for a good long while before you're fully prepared to get into another fight.

The CE AR was a pile of crap outside about 10 feet, but if you got caught inside of a Blood Gulch base against one and you didn't have a shotgun or beastly PR skills, man, you were fucked. And that was great.

 

[Devolution]

Throw in a second dude spraying, that precision user would be dead in a flash and there's no way to handle that situation effectively despite it being outside of what I would consider to be "close range". The issue is then compounded by the extraordinarily slow shield recharge that Reach has, where taking on a second guy has to be put off for a good long while before you're fully prepared to get into another fight.

The speed at which the shields recharge, especially in pistol games, is gross.

 

[daedalius]

How about no. Given the nature of bloom and people who strafe it takes more skill to use a precision weapon upclose than it does using a gun that has this level of bullet magentism.

I had no idea the magnetism was that strong.