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Halo |OT10| The Calm Before The Storm
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
And what's different about Halo 4?
The Custom Loadouts allow you to deal with Rockets/closer-ranged power weapons from a distance and they also help you deal with longer-ranged power weapons up close. So in essence, nothing has changed.. I'm sure you were more complaining about the "random" part of Ordnance Drops, but I had to point out that the power weapons are not "unbalanced" (in that negative sense you're using the term) because they're supposed to be strong by design.
When did you ever go out of your way to pick up a Needler in previous Halo games? Never/Rarely ever. Welp, now you will think twice about passing it up.. I fail to see the problem with this and I'm sure you'd agree.
Der Flatulator
Member
But there is only 32 of them.
This is more likely.
Dominion Turrets would be in the Dominion menu. I'm going to be optimistic and say that we probably can have them spawn in other game-modes, but that would probably mean ditching the object label system.
The P of Poland
Member
Space elevators are present on just about every planet the UNSC has a presence on, and are used to ferry goods and people to and from the planets' surface. While expensive, they enable a planet to import and export much more efficiently and are thus worth every cent. It has also been stated several times previously that Corbulo Academy is located on a colony world.
/nerd
Shake Appeal
Member
I guess we'd have to get into semantics over what a 'gameplay skill' is, because players who know where and when everything spawns and time their movements through the map and deliberately control/deny certain areas of it at certain times to maximize their advantage by taking charge of resources that are just as available and predictable for other players is something I consider skillful, even though I don't do it myself in any real way.
The one situation where probabilities over time do ameliorate impact in individual games are where the probabilities are known, and strategies can be built around them (card games, dice games). If the probabilities are not known to the player they can't be managed and that will feel very frustrating.
I'm very much on the fence about Personal Ordnance. I think it will make my personal game more fun but that doesn't mean I think it's going to be good thing over all.
nillapuddin
Member
*random thought during class*
Have we ever discussed a ranking system that would be persistent, like..
I know in Halo 3 you could go up and down in rank, but im thinking more like a leaderboard, one that could change depending on your skill, but also the players around you
So there are buckets of players still,
but somehow it works differently to group players (my idea is falling apart at this stage)
Im having a difficult time putting this into concise words, but does one of yall get what Im sayin?
edit:
fuck idk, it would have to be like set times it would recount, and idk how it would keep track initially
Have we ever discussed a ranking system that would be persistent, like..
I know in Halo 3 you could go up and down in rank, but im thinking more like a leaderboard, one that could change depending on your skill, but also the players around you
So there are buckets of players still,
but somehow it works differently to group players (my idea is falling apart at this stage)
Im having a difficult time putting this into concise words, but does one of yall get what Im sayin?
edit:
fuck idk, it would have to be like set times it would recount, and idk how it would keep track initially
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Ordinance - A piece of legislation enacted by a municipal authority
Ordnance - Military weapons, ammunition, and equipment used with them
Can we all get on the same page jeeze... If you don't use the right word some of these posts don't even make any sense.
Ordnance - Military weapons, ammunition, and equipment used with them
Can we all get on the same page jeeze... If you don't use the right word some of these posts don't even make any sense.
Joking, I didn't even know there was a difference
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Right, I added an edit to my reply. If it happens that everyone is equally skillful (as far as map knowledge goes) in past halo games, then it probably is more equal with placed power weapons, but thats only if the maps are symmetrical and the placements are even, and you'll still end up with crazy "hot spots" in maps which I think causes a lot of issues. As I previously said, I don't know which one I like more yet, but I'm going to definitely hold off till I've gotten the feeling of 4's ordnance system.
I like the lead up to new Halo game because Shake is around a lot more. 
I should have been more clear. I assumed they were on Earth and was wondering if Earth has multiple elevators. I know what they are and how they work though. I didn't really think about location, a few seconds of thinking and its be clear they are not on Earth. Silly me. :/
I should have been more clear. I assumed they were on Earth and was wondering if Earth has multiple elevators. I know what they are and how they work though. I didn't really think about location, a few seconds of thinking and its be clear they are not on Earth. Silly me. :/
Shake Appeal
Member
I was actually going to compare it to poker, where there are certain unknowns and a hefty dose of luck involved in any given individual hand, but good players are able to push their positive expectation over a career of play to come out as net winners.
But I don't particularly want Halo to be poker. I don't want to have to check my K/D or W/L ratios a year after launch to get a sense of how I'm doing now that all the luck has evened out. Ideally, I'd like the original unit of 10-15 minute matches to be the measure, as far as is reasonably possible. It's more rewarding in the short term and doesn't require me to adopt a Zenlike calm in the face of repeated cheap deaths in the knowledge I will be doling out cheap deaths of my own over time.
I disagree. Knowing where and when a specific weapon spawns may not in itself take skill, but it allows you to develop and implement strategies around that knowledge which is a skill. At and above a certain level of play (not even really that advanced), every player will know the maps and where the weapons spawn. How you use that information is where skill comes into it.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
ODST/FUD Spoilers:
Frankie is the Superintendent
I don't disagree with that concern at all. I worry about the meta game. But we shall see.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
But its more objective-based skill where planning is more important. May as well have a slayer game with flags and add 5 kills everytime someone captures a flag.
User 73706
Banned
Just imagine how smoothly the mech would walk in 60 fps.
My first goal on Ragnarok is to kill a Mantis using an ordnance drop.
NobleGundam
Banned
FUD spoiler:
Spartan Hand Image from Classified ONI video:http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...20x320/552749_418867198168463_231901059_n.jpg
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Halo 4 metagame is gonna be a fuckin' mess. Either you down with the random chaos or you just pray the classic playlists are good.
Is this the official name for it?
It is now.
EDIT: Holy shit lol
Courtesy of Duncan.
Sparth signed it.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Good review.
Yeah, I was really hoping it wouldn't be this soon. On the flip side, as of now there are like zero pictures and videos, so the leak seems isolated.
Yup, its Fred.. you can see him in the preview for next week. It seems he wont be name dropped in the show though, because he is only credited as 'Spartan'. Kelly, however is credited by her name, so she may have a bigger role.
The difference is that the kill times between the utility weapons that everyone has and the kill times of the power weapons is vastly greater than it was in Halo CE. This makes it much more difficult to deal with a power weapon user, even if they are missing one or two shots.
The problem I have with the needler is that it is inherently flawed. It's either going to be overpowered or completely useless due to the fact that the player doesn't really have much control over whether or not the needles actually hit. All they do is aim in the general direction and from there it's up to the game. I'd rather have the needler be completely worthless, because the alternative is an unavoidable death stream that takes absolutely no real skill to use.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone want to go for some ODST achievements sometime soon? I need two that yall could help with: 200K points on Chasm Ten, and Deja Vu.
Ah, really? Cool.
Great analogy, and yeah, I totally agree.
:lolODST/FUD Spoilers:Frankie is the Superintendent
How are we friends when we have such fundamentally opposing views of this game?
Captain Blood
Member
And have a decent population. If Joe Blow throws in his Halo 4 disk and sees 10,000 people in infinity and 2,000 in classic I would say odds are he goes infinity.
It also allows the designers to force action in certain parts of the map, which they can use during map design. Controlling the pacing and location of action is a huge part of why Halo Slayer used to work so well, and is why something like CoD turns into a clusterfuck in Deathmatch Games; you never know where to expect people to be at any given time, and it turns into people camping or just who-sees-who first.
If you don't force players to move or place importance on certain parts of the map at certain times, there's no flow to the game and it's not fun. You can't plan or predict, so you simply camp and then rush the powerup when it spawns.
Are you saying you want a Starcraft 2 type of ranking and match system? If so I fully agree.
For those unfamiliar SC2 works like this.
You play 5 matches, and based off your performance you are then placed into a league that ranges from Bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, master, and grand master.
Based off your first 5 matches, if you were to win all 5, you cannot be placed past Diamond I believe initially.
You are placed in a ladder of 200 or is it 100 people, and you are basically competiting within that ladder to get to number 1 or close to on your ladder. The more you win, and less you lose, the game will then start to place you against opponents in a league above you. So you are a bronzie, you have won 5 in a row, well here's a silver player, did you beat him? Yes? Okay, maybe you are even worthy to hit up gold, so here's a gold player or two. Can't beat them? Okay, well here's some silvers again.
Based off of those wins/losses and the league you could go bronze to silver, or in certain circumstances go straight to gold or even platinum.
As for masters and grand masters, this is the top of the top. Once you are in masters league you can see your exact win/loss ratio, where as up to then it is kept secret from you to encourage more play. Grand masters is the top 100 in the region you are in. So there's a GM league for North America, Europe, Korea, etc. This is the BEST of the BEST.
At any point if you start to suck it up and lose a LOT without wins, the game will demote you in order to try to maintain your win/loss at 50%. That's how the game is built is so that you are in the league where you are at a 50% win ratio. Once you tip one way or the other it proceeds to place you in the correct league to get you to 50% again. (Of course doesn't apply to Grand Masters since you can be #1 for your region and win forever)
Could this work for Halo ? Absolutely! You can have an individual and team league placement. Plus, the one other thing SC2 is going to add in soon is unranked matchmaking, so that you can still get placed in the right league skill for opponent but it won't effect your win/loss.
--------
End explanation of the Starcraft 2 ranking system.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
The Halo 1 Rockets were way more broken in that game with the Pistol then the Halo 4 Rockets will be in this game with the other weapons. That's what I'm saying. You calling the power weapons "unbalanced" in a negative manner is simply false unless you want shitty power weapons like Halo 3's Rocket in a faster paced Halo 4 ;\
As for the Needler, you'd most likely be in a position where you'd be able to quickly step into cover, unless someone got the drop on you.. The weapon itself isn't the problem IMO, it's the random Ordnance and unlucky scenarios you should be focusing more on.
Agreed, but I also see that being more of a problem only with gametypes that allow for Personal Ordnance. Otherwise, the same locations will have power weapons dropping on them so it's much more predictable.
thezerofire
Banned
is that blood?
Shake Appeal
Member
Soon to be the Call of Duty ranking system, too.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I honestly want a slayer where advantage is based on the terrain rather than objectives. And it takes like a third of a second to kill someone in COD, so I don't think its comparable. I think changing up the action hot spots of a map gives it more variety. Not that I don't know what you mean, I just think a lot of people on this thread prefer objectives in their slayer, which is where I differ.
You can still place importance on map control in slayer without placed weapons, but its based on more intuitive things such as having the high ground rather than weapon location.
Reagan's BR
Banned
Well I guess we will see it in Halo 5 then.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Man, I need news on Halo 4's skill ranking asap. Hopefully the rumors about tomorrow are right.
Woah they gave you access to the playlists early? Why don't you tell us then, because you seem to know a whole lot.
We don't know anything on the ranking system, I'm honestly suspecting a modified Arena style of rank, or something it works with too, also what rumors about tomorrow?
Man, I need news on Halo 4's skill ranking asap. Hopefully the rumors about tomorrow are right.
Rumors? What rumors?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Is there a full image to your avatar? Looks pretty cool.
The problem is that if someone has the higher ground, why on earth would you ever attack them or go near them? The only logical outcome when you place so much importance on geographic advantage is that one team gets the lead and holds the power position while the other team helplessly throws themselves at it. You need to force teams to leave these power positions and you do that by placing great emphasis on other points of the map.
You can still change up the hotspots of action with static powerups; they don't all need to be on the same respawn timer and they aren't all of equal importance.
I'm fine with power weapons being powerful. What I have a problem with is when there is such a disaparity in the strength of the normal weapons and the power weapons. Everyone should always have a fighting chance, and when you have power weapons that are easy to use and kill in one hit and normal weapons that take 1.5 seconds to kill (while also being harder to use), you have a problem. The solution isn't to nerf the power weapons, its to make the normal weapons a little more on par.
nillapuddin
Member
Thanks for the explanation, I knew nothing of the system other than it was called "ladders"
That sounds great, thats pretty much exactly what I was thinking of
.. I knew it was too good of an idea for me to be the first person to ever think of it lol
Ranked and Unranked matchmaking, fingerscrossedddddddd
does SC2 reset every month and make you start from nothing?
No?
Okay then.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Well that's up to smart map design my 343. Good map design should allow for a weakness of any "power" spot. That's why swordbase had such weak design, that one room had no real weak spot.
The previous Halos are my favorite multiplayer games ever, so I'm not condemning power weapon placement by any means, I'm only saying I personally don't think its the only way, nor do I think the new way is necessarily theoretically worse.
Unknown iXi contracted me recently saying that he never got the ONI patch I sent him from the little PAX give away I did awhile ago. I know the poster and cryptum pin made it to the right people ok, but I can't seem to recall anyone commenting on getting their patch. I'm curious, winners, did any of you receive your patch?
I got mine! Thanks and sorry for not mentioning it.
But your whole argument was that the geography should be what gives teams the advantage. Even if the power position has a "weak" spot, it still needs to have an advantage, otherwise it wouldn't be a power position and we're back to square one. It would also be really boring design if there were no power positions.
Without static, predictable power weapon spawns, you give teams an advantage for staying in one place; that's the exact opposite of what I think teams should be rewarded for. Holding a power position shouldn't be the entire premise of a game of slayer, at least in my opinion.
The problem with sword base has more to do with just the closed-end powerposition (the entire sandbox design contributed to Swordbases problems). The main problem was that one of the power weapons that allow teams to lock it down literally spawned in the power position.
ArbiterMajor
Member
OMG I'm listening to the full Halo 4 OST and the track "Solace' is one of the most beautiful theme I have ever heard in a Halo game.
SC2 does not reset you every month, but it does have seasons. Seasons last several months. When a season is up, if you played in the last season and qualified for matches, you do 3 new placement matches instead of 5. These 3 gauge if you still deserve to be where you are at, need to be lower, or higher. Often it won't change shit, but sometimes you may have been on the tipping point before a season closed out, and these 3 new matches tip you to a league up or down.
Plus, unlike Arena, there is solo and team rankings, since you can compete in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 for ladders.
Oh and unlike Arena it matches you up quickly from my experience where Arena matching can take for fucking ever. >.<
That's good. At least the post office didn't lose the entire batch. Sorry again to unknown and anyone else who may have not gotten their prize.