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Halo |OT12| Last One Out, Get the Lights

So yea finally got around to episode 4. Spartan Ops can go to hell. Total and complete bullshit this episode was. This episode has completely turned my opinion around 180 degrees.
Why? Honestly curious because I enjoyed the intensity of a bunch of the battles.

No one asked for jip, no one asked for no flag drop option, amongst other changes that now have proven to not help to keep a healthy population.
Untrue with JIP. Not dropping the flag seems more like it came out of a desire to simplify the play of CTF while providing the flag carrier some more offensive capabilities in their role. Not saying it was right or wrong as I haven't had any experience with Halo 4 CTF. But I do appreciate JIP, as it has helped my games far, far more than it has hurt. In fact I haven't been hurt by it yet.
 
Team downer was right, everyone go home.

It's not about right or wrong, its about how you carry yourself. I'm pretty sure 343 is done caring about what we say for now, considering the state of this place. Did your parents say you were shit when you did something wrong or did they try to show you the way with open arms? Maybe team downer got more of the first than the latter, don't know.

That said, there's a lot of work to be done on Halo 4 multiplayer. I hope these guys are listening to at least some of us. The maps in this game are not my favorite (and there are so few regular sized ones!)
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
dat population
dat netcode

naaaahhhh

I also don't have the mythic disk.
Population doesn't bother me too much. Matchmaking times are quick enough. But yeah, the netcode is poop.

Serious, non-trolling question: Anyone have any recommendations for competitive multiplayer games for the 360? I don't like military shooters or Gears. And I don't think I'd like CS:GO, but I might give it a shot anyways.
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
The sports examples are to highlight this and much of what you take from the sports or video game examples are purely your perspective of things. Hence the bias, guess I'm trying to be the fence sitter advocating support for all. We all agree customisations and maps should have been present on day one for the competitive community. Personally I think we'll see one map in the December map pack built for competitive play and the introduction of the MLG playlist as a stable playlist.

Everyone agrees developer transparency is good thing, we need more of that.

A good chunk of changes made were pretty much indicative of contempt for high-level play and its subcommunity, and hamstringing the seasoned player as much as possible. It's not as bad as Reach in practice, which had the same idea, that we can thank the morons on Bnet for because of their endless crying and whinging during H3 about how the Battle Rifle was apparently "too easy" to use. But following CoD's example in excessive positive feedback, the game's alot softer than Reach .

Carries over into 1-50 ranks, and even something as standard as FFA for pete's sake.

As for the bolded, no shit eh?
 

dmg04

#DEADWRONG
Everyone agrees developer transparency is good thing, we need more of that.
I really wish 343 could be more like bungie in a few ways

1. Post bulletins at a time of day that actually makes sense.
2. Have someone in their matchmaking forum that actually gives us updates and feedback, ala shishka. I miss the harsh replies.
3. Have employees communicate things via waypoint. I don't understand why they'd try to get us to visit so bad, yet have most communication taking place via Twitter or, well, just having users get whatever information they can on NeoGaf

I haven't even touched Halo 4 this week :\ Aside from being busy, I just haven't even been in the mood. Snipers was removed, FFA still doesn't have a vanilla SLAYER gametype, and BTB is still held hostage by Personal Ordinance, meaning I'll be sniped on Valhalla by 3 different snipers within 2 minutes of joining the losing team of a game in progress.


Bummer.
 

orznge

Banned
Sorry Deadly Cyclone, we're going to have to let you go. We found this guy "Ozzy Onya" who can fill your position way better.
 
668hJ.png


embargo is probably for map pack?
 
Team downer was right, everyone go home.

It's not about right or wrong, its about how you carry yourself. I'm pretty sure 343 is done caring about what we say for now, considering the state of this place. Did your parents say you were shit when you did something wrong or did they try to show you the way with open arms? Maybe team downer got more of the first than the latter, don't know.

That said, there's a lot of work to be done on Halo 4 multiplayer. I hope these guys are listening to at least some of us. The maps in this game are not my favorite (and there are so few regular sized ones!)

I think this is irrelevant because if you tell a video game it sucks it doesnt develop poor self esteem, it just sits there and continues to suck. I know this for a fact cause I yell at my Halo Reach disc all the time and the game continues to suck.

Jokes aside, its not a perfect game obviously, its that we need 343 to hear it, some will be positive about their complaints and some will present them in a more blunt manner, but all complaints need to be heard.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Why? Honestly curious because I enjoyed the intensity of a bunch of the battles.

The Prometheans. It's such bullshit. You clear an area and then bam a bunch of Prometheans spawn in all around you not giving you a chance to get to any cover. Throw in a bunch of watchers when they do and you quickly get a ton of crawlers all over you. It's just not fun. At least let me prepare for them before you surround me with them. Then it's not just once this happens. It's several times. And of course they surround you with them after you've finished out the covenant and are low on ammo.

I'll admit the cutscenes I like. I won't deny that. At this point I just don't know. It's sad because the base gunplay, physics, etc are as good as ever. However everything else isn't.
 
A good chunk of changes made were pretty much indicative of contempt for high-level play and its subcommunity, and hamstringing the seasoned player as much as possible. It's not as bad as Reach in practice, which had the same idea, that we can thank the morons on Bnet for because of their endless crying and whinging during H3 about how the Battle Rifle was apparently "too easy" to use. But following CoD's example in excessive positive feedback, the game's softer than Reach and that's when you get abominations like the SAW.
You honestly believe these decisions were made out of contempt? Really? So all those pre-release game sessions were what exactly?

The Prometheans. It's such bullshit. You clear an area and then bam a bunch of Prometheans spawn in all around you not giving you a chance to get to any cover. Throw in a bunch of watchers when they do and you quickly get a ton of crawlers all over you. It's just not fun. At least let me prepare for them before you surround me with them. Then it's not just once this happens. It's several times. And of course they surround you with them after you've finished out the covenant and are low on ammo.
Oh I'm with you that some of the enemy spawns can be bullshit. By now we play it very safe whenever there is a button to push, because that button is almost always the send-in-a-shitton-of-reinforcements button, regardless of story context. So one of us draws the short straw and has to flip the switch while the others hang back and provide cover. If the switch is in a room, be ready for close quarters or ready to bolt, but be ready. Its cheap design but you can mitigate the worst effects of it.
 
Why? Honestly curious because I enjoyed the intensity of a bunch of the battles.

Me too, I've been loving the cut-scenes (sure some cheesy bits but it's mostly bad ass) and SPOPS has been getting better every week. I sort of expect 1-3 repeat areas building up a crescendo effect so the last two missions are where the goods are delivered.

It would be an interesting spin off game to have 343i dedicated a team to recombining campaign and SPOPS into one ongoing weekly or fortnightly episodic content with only approx. 3 missions. Imagine if Halo 4 didn't have campaign or SPOPS but a 10 or 20 week long campaign/SPOPS hybrid. I think it could create the window of development they would need to bring an A grade lifecycle to episodic content.
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
You honestly believe these decisions were made out of contempt? Really? So all those pre-release game sessions were what exactly?

Uh, marketing?

If those game sessions were made out of genuine concern for the opinions of that group, how come practically all of the issues pointed out remained in the final build? Non-casual play scares the casuals away. Therefore, get rid of the non-casual play.

We saw this already before. Something something marginalizing Arena something.
 
Me too, I've been loving the cut-scenes (sure some cheesy bits but it's mostly bad ass) and SPOPS has been getting better every week.

I sort of expect 1-3 repeat areas building up a crescendo effect so the last two missions are where the goods are delivered.
Yep. Complex (Galileo Base I think) was all kinds of crazy, with me with DMR/Snipe on top and my buddy taking everybody else on from the kitchen. Then we'd meet up and rush the facility or silo with shotguns and battle rifles. It was non-stop, and we always had to mix up our tactics - but it helped that we've played the level in multiplayer so often. And then when you get the systems online (again), it was a nice show.

Uh, marketing?

If those game sessions were made out of genuine concern for the opinions of that group, how come practically all of the issues pointed out remained in the final build? Non-casual play scares the casuals away. Therefore, get rid of the non-casual play.

We saw this already before. Something something marginalizing Arena something.
So the MLG guys didn't think the game was ready for prime time? Or did they hold back on their assessments? I didn't follow too much of the nuance of competitive viewpoint before release as I went mostly dark, but I remember a shitton of full gameplay videos out there with commentary, and I thought the commentary was mostly positive.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Me too, I've been loving the cut-scenes (sure some cheesy bits but it's mostly bad ass) and SPOPS has been getting better every week. I sort of expect 1-3 repeat areas building up a crescendo effect so the last two missions are where the goods are delivered.

It would be an interesting spin off game to have 343i dedicated a team to recombining campaign and SPOPS into one ongoing weekly or fortnightly episodic content with only approx. 3 missions. Imagine if Halo 4 didn't have campaign or SPOPS but a 10 or 20 week long campaign/SPOPS hybrid. I think it could create the window of development they would need to bring an A grade lifecycle to episodic content.

That would be terrible. I don't want to wait to finish my game, I play that shit on my own time.
Yep. Complex (Galileo Base I think) was all kinds of crazy, with me with DMR/Snipe on top and my buddy taking everybody else on from the kitchen. Then we'd meet up and rush the facility or silo with shotguns and battle rifles. It was non-stop, and we always had to mix up our tactics - but it helped that we've played the level in multiplayer so often. And then when you get the systems online (again), it was a nice show.


So the MLG guys didn't think the game was ready for prime time? Or did they hold back on their assessments? I didn't follow too much of the nuance of competitive viewpoint before release as I went mostly dark, but I remember a shitton of full gameplay videos out there with commentary, and I thought the commentary was mostly positive.


I don't think they released a full game video pre-release. It was all marketing music videos and stuff. Earliest I think was Dallas the weekend before it came out.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Please quit Halo like you promised. Your posts are getting annoying.

Nope, because I never said that. Even though there are way more people being way more negative about the game then I am, apparently I'm just not witty enough about it.

And you have to admit that is fucking shit.

I agree, but god damn- the Halo community. So many cancers- there are good ideas and complaints out there, but there are so hard to read in all the noise. You could read practically every Halo forum to the voice of a fat 4 year old girl screaming at her mother for cookies at the grocery store.

Think an avenue for discussion and feedback was completely blown here.

There have been quite a few fairly drawn out and well-articulated posts from people discussing their issues with the game. In lieu of any sort of interaction with the 343 guys here or feedback via Waypoint or anything like that, there's not a lot else left to do but go in circles.
 

Amazing Mic

Neo Member
all complaints need to be heard.

I agree, but god damn- the Halo community. So many cancers- there are good ideas and complaints out there, but they are so hard to read in all the noise. You could read practically every Halo forum to the voice of a fat 4 year old girl screaming at her mother for cookies at the grocery store.

Think an avenue for discussion and feedback was completely blown here.
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
So the MLG guys didn't think the game was ready for prime time? Or did they hold back on their assessments? I didn't follow too much of the competitive viewpoint before release as I went mostly dark, but I remember a shitton of full gameplay videos out there with commentary, and I thought the commentary was mostly positive.

Jetpack was (is?) the primary AA in the settings, which should be indicative enough.

And if the first week of a new Halo game is the "honeymoon phase," two months before release is like touching your first boob.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
They embargo'd themselves?

They just don't want to steal the scoop from the outlets they gave this info to. Help spread the Halo love.

Also, IGN has some exclusive stuff coming Monday. My guess is developer interview/walkthrough on the new maps. Something similar to what we saw with Kynan talking about each Halo map pre release.
 

Omni

Member
Why do devs and whatnot stick to twitter for their announcements? I never see them on Facebook (Waypoint on Facebook has at least a day lag)

Almost tempted to make one.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I just REALLLLLY want to know what 343 is going to do about the lag. This is crazy that my friends and I can't even play the game because it lags so bad. Some nights it's perfect, and some it's horrible.
 

Havok

Member
Why? Honestly curious because I enjoyed the intensity of a bunch of the battles.
I play on Legendary, usually with just one other person since we're on the same connection. We are both quite competent at Halo. Keep that in mind. Here are a few things I think this episode in particular totally fucked up. Fuel Rod Guns on every fourth enemy, usually on Elite Generals. Every Covenant mission having multiple instances of "well fuck, the drop pod is right on top of us, too bad there was no indication of that! *respawn*" Chapter 3 dropping players right at the start into a mass of high-level enemies, including an FRG General and four (!!!!) Jackal snipers, which means you're basically boned the instant you land. Binary Rifles coming somewhere out of a mass of Crawlers without any warning other than the tiny red circle in a group of indistinct silver shapes and tiny orange lights (why don't they have the laser sight from MP?). Chapter 4's Knight spawning trigger volume being two feet in front of where they spawn. And the Knights spawning in are all Battlewagons so the player that triggered them has to make a mad scramble backwards, if he can survive their often-instakill first shot. That chapter pulls that same bullshit twice in a row. Chapter 5 allowing a single Knight to spawn 8+ Watchers if you don't hit him immediately as he spawns (This is being literal. I counted), so you die the second you step into that room when they all fire at you at once. Chapter 5's "go hit this button in this room" objective where a dozen Crawlers and a Knight spawn all around you the second you hit the middle of the room. It was shitty in Doom 3, it's shitty here. I'm actually glad there aren't finite lives in Spartan Ops, because the game screws the player over so many times per chapter that I don't know that I'd want to ever finish a single episode.

And frankly, the encounter design, often because of some of those elements I listed, is kind of bad. Instant-kill weapons should be a rarity. They are not fun to fight against. Look back to Halo CE. Every Elite in that game carries a Plasma Rifle for a very long time, and then you find that every once in a while there's one with a sword. Usually alone or with a very small group, because he's a tough enemy. It's tense, it's fun, it's special. In Halo 3, Hammer Chieftains were rare and special, and ended up being some of the most fun enemies in that game. When you dole out things like instakill weapons that change up the combat flow so dramatically in every single fight, often multiple times per fight, they lose their sheen and it gets boring and frustrating.

Episode 3 was fairly strong in comparison, but there needs to be a fundamental change in how they're designing those fights to keep me interested.
 

CyReN

Member
They just don't want to steal the scoop from the outlets they gave this info to. Help spread the Halo love.

Also, IGN has some exclusive stuff coming Monday. My guess is developer interview/walkthrough on the new maps. Something similar to what we saw with Kynan talking about each Halo map pre release.

I hope I don't have to do all these contest to get a map pack early again lol.
 

orznge

Banned
I agree, but god damn- the Halo community. So many cancers- there are good ideas and complaints out there, but they are so hard to read in all the noise. You could read practically every Halo forum to the voice of a fat 4 year old girl screaming at her mother for cookies at the grocery store.

Think an avenue for discussion and feedback was completely blown here.

lol
 

rakka

Member
I just REALLLLLY want to know what 343 is going to do about the lag. This is crazy that my friends and I can't even play the game because it lags so bad. Some nights it's perfect, and some it's horrible.

sometimes there's a better match for your skill level on the other side of the world :)

gotta make the match as even as possible remember!
 
Yep. Complex (Galileo Base I think) was all kinds of crazy, with me with DMR/Snipe on top and my buddy taking everybody else on from the kitchen. Then we'd meet up and rush the facility or silo with shotguns and battle rifles. It was non-stop, and we always had to mix up our tactics - but it helped that we've played the level in multiplayer so often. And then when you get the systems online (again), it was a nice show.

I'm the same I don't get the unrealistic expectations on SPOPS. I thoroughly enjoyed the carrier and enemies on Ragnarok. I also thoroughly enjoyed seeing crawlers on terrain you'd never encounter an enemy on those multiplayer levels. They even went indoors in buildings and were on the walls and ceiling, it was a fresh experience on a reused asset, what more could you want?

I thought it was a solid mix of multiplayer levels with enemies and experiences that were different to your normal war games tactics.

Then some of the new levels are present or reused from campaign that aren't in war games plus I find the AI more intelligent than the campaign counterparts. Perhaps because I play solo? Not sure there.

I've really only played solo SPOPS on heroic as I hate the input latency and bullet sponges of legendary but overall getting better every week and I think things will really ramp up in 6-10 episode numbers.

That would be terrible. I don't want to wait to finish my game, I play that shit on my own time.
That's why I said a spin off game, it's probably not for everyone.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
I play on Legendary, usually with just one other person since we're on the same connection. We are both quite competent at Halo. Keep that in mind. Here are a few things I think this episode in particular totally fucked up. Fuel Rod Guns on every fourth enemy, usually on Elite Generals. Every Covenant mission having multiple instances of "well fuck, the drop pod is right on top of us, too bad there was no indication of that! *respawn*" Chapter 3 dropping players right at the start into a mass of high-level enemies, including an FRG General and four (!!!!) Jackal snipers, which means you're basically boned the instant you land. Binary Rifles coming somewhere out of a mass of Crawlers without any warning other than the tiny red circle in a group of indistinct silver shapes and tiny orange lights (why don't they have the laser sight from MP?) Chapter 4's Knight spawning trigger volume being two feet in front of where they spawn. And the Knights spawning in are all Battlewagons so the player that triggered them has to make a mad scramble backwards, if he can survive their often-instakill first shot. That chapter pulls that same bullshit twice in a row. Chapter 5 allowing a single Knight to spawn 8+ Watchers if you don't hit him immediately as he spawns (This is being literal. I counted.) Chapter 5's "go hit this button in this room" objective where a dozen Crawlers and a Knight spawn all around you the second you hit the middle of the room. It was shitty in Doom 3, it's shitty here. I'm actually glad there aren't finite lives in that, because the game screws the player over so many times per chapter that I don't know that I'd want to ever finish a single episode.

And frankly, the encounter design, often because of some of those elements I listed, is kind of bad. Instant-kill weapons should be a rarity. They are not fun to fight against. Look back to Halo CE. Every Elite in that game carries a Plasma Rifle for a very long time, and then you find that every once in a while, there's one with a sword. It's tense, it's fun, it's special. In Halo 3, Hammer Chieftains were rare and special, and ended up being some of the most fun in that game. When you dole out things that change up the combat flow so dramatically in every single fight, often multiple times per fight, they lose their sheen and it gets boring and frustrating.

Episode 3 was fairly strong in comparison, but there needs to be a fundamental change in how they're designing those fights to keep me interested.

Thank you. You have summed up the exact things that drove me to hate this episode. I actually somewhat liked 1 & 2 then I really liked Episode 3. But this one went 180 degrees backward from the direction Episode 3 headed.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
I just email them today asking for objective gametypes without instant spawn, would it be pushing it lol?

to the thc email machine.

Objective gametypes without instant spawn? Thats a bug no? I know CTF doesn't have it.

Edit: lol i love how you just email asking for things like that hahaha
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
I agree, but god damn- the Halo community. So many cancers- there are good ideas and complaints out there, but they are so hard to read in all the noise. You could read practically every Halo forum to the voice of a fat 4 year old girl screaming at her mother for cookies at the grocery store.

Think an avenue for discussion and feedback was completely blown here.

Nah, at least so far there never really was one.

I don't like the way they let the steam build up and then either indignantly explode on the community after a point or pass some brief, curt and irritated line in a bulletin Q&A to the question everyone's been asking. Doesn't help the perception of animosity.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Don't tease me. Right now, Halo 2 Anniversary with MP is the only thing that could get me excited about Halo.

I'd take Halo 2 Anniversary even without the MP. It's weird cause Halo 2 used to be my least favorite but over the years I've actually grown to love it as much as I've loved all the other Halo games.
 
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