If you can wait until tonight I will give you my 14 day (or is it 12?) one I got with Halo 4.
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Halo |OT13|
- Thread starter kylej
- Start date
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If you can wait until tonight I will give you my 14 day (or is it 12?) one I got with Halo 4.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
It's not a conspiracy theory. I dunno why people still view 343 Industries and anything other than Microsoft's Halo factory. They don't have their own ideas. They're never going to have a streak of independence the way Bungie did. They are Microsoft. The only thing anybody can hope for is that whomever is in charge stops telling their employees to keep playing follow the leader.
Every time I see that... I just can't help but think about Crimson.
Something I noticed about this game is there were a lot of worrying things about the game that when they first came to light, many here went in with the very reasonable mindset of "Oh, well it won't be that bad, surely 343 understands x y and z and won't implement it in this way!"
I mentioned plasma pistols and plasma grenades being in BTB loadouts, and I was met with "Oh I'm sure 343 is addressing that in some way, etc etc."
Bunch of options we hate (instant respawn, flag settings, sprint etc)
"Oh I'm sure 343 will let us change this in customs"
Flood being introduced
"Calm down guys, I'm sure regular infection settings are still available, no way they'd neuter the most popular custom gametype"
Global Ordnance being introduced
"Oh well I'm sure its SOMEWHAT predictable."
"They'll probably give everyone a warning of what the weapon is before it drops"
Perks
"I'm sure they won't have a big impact on gameplay, 343 said it was just for your playstyle!"
Ugh.
Never has a games true potential been so close. Fuuuuuck.
I mentioned plasma pistols and plasma grenades being in BTB loadouts, and I was met with "Oh I'm sure 343 is addressing that in some way, etc etc."
Bunch of options we hate (instant respawn, flag settings, sprint etc)
"Oh I'm sure 343 will let us change this in customs"
Flood being introduced
"Calm down guys, I'm sure regular infection settings are still available, no way they'd neuter the most popular custom gametype"
Global Ordnance being introduced
"Oh well I'm sure its SOMEWHAT predictable."
"They'll probably give everyone a warning of what the weapon is before it drops"
Perks
"I'm sure they won't have a big impact on gameplay, 343 said it was just for your playstyle!"
Ugh.
Never has a games true potential been so close. Fuuuuuck.
Alright thanks. Finally got a new controller. Have the itch to play some Reach.
There is nothing wrong with the CoD style progression system, it is one of the best there. The major aspect of it is the urge to move forward and make the player feel that he is doing something right. The problem however is that developers who try to copy the system only copy the esthetics, the fluff that that gives the impression. Dont carbon copy their systems, learn what makes them tick.
The only lesson developers need to learn from the CoD system is that people like progression. Give people something unique to care about while playing! Go see why Starcraft and League of Legends are so beloved and have huge fanbases, because they have unique progression systems. You think it might be hard for people to understand or accept a whole new progression system? Dont think that the consumer is stupid or inept, you would surprised how fast people learn.
The only lesson developers need to learn from the CoD system is that people like progression. Give people something unique to care about while playing! Go see why Starcraft and League of Legends are so beloved and have huge fanbases, because they have unique progression systems. You think it might be hard for people to understand or accept a whole new progression system? Dont think that the consumer is stupid or inept, you would surprised how fast people learn.
Devolution
Member
Yeah if the numbers reflect it that's even more hysterical. I usually just assume my tastes are different since I'm getting to an age where I don't need a chaotic mess of a game to have fun. I liked the chess that was previous Halos. I guess that's boring as fuck though.
I like dealing in mindfucks.
I never did finish my PDF because I needed to play more but I was like "fuck I can't."
I don't need progression in my FPS, I need fun. Progression junkies have fucking ruined FPSes on consoles.
I agree with this 100% too. The thing however is that a progression system can be there without it being so intrusive. Halo 2 did a pretty decent job with it, it was something that was just there. Now every multiplayer game basically flashes right in your face and making it way too important.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Limit Progression to aesthetics.
Build a solid base game
End
Build a solid base game
End
xxjuicesxx
Member
Yea I never fucking progressed in Halo 2. I never earned new armors, or earned new emblems or earned new abilities. I just played the game. Cause it was fun.
Progression systems dont make games better they add a different kind of work to be done. Busy-Creative work. If your game stinks noones going to care about unlocking stuff.
Progression systems dont make games better they add a different kind of work to be done. Busy-Creative work. If your game stinks noones going to care about unlocking stuff.
Poker Face
Member
Devolution
Member
Progression in a FPS to me is hilariously fucked up. In a fighter they don't limit you to some level system where you can finally upgrade to a fucking fireball. Maybe I should just get into those damn.
Progression systems are good. I support them, but they exist to keep the player playing. A big way this was done in Halo 3 was ranks. I thought most my IRL friends who played Halo were more casual. Turns out they got turned off Reach because it didn't have a real ranking system.
For the more competitive crowd, bring back skill ranks. It's a fantastic way to entice the player. Add in cool aesthetic unlocks for hitting certain ranks. Might help bring in the more casual crowd.
For the more casual "social" crowd, add in a system that gives you more cool shit.
BUT NOTHING THAT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY. I hated that we actually needed to unlock a BR/DMR and AA's and shit at the start. Thankfully by SR10 you had everything you really needed. So much for progession system, but I'm thankful it sucked because progression systems based on gameplay advantages fucking suck.
Make it aesthetic and awesome.
Even if they want to add all this fluff progression system, they could easily appease everybody by giving the option to turn it all off. If it barely is going to be something that is impactful, then give us the option to turn it off. You appease the people who like in-your-face and the people who just want to have a barebones experience.
This so much.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Damn you post those things a lot lol, but it's all cuz of ^that reason. This cannot be said enough.
I agree with this. Halo 4's progression system wasn't a problem like people are making it seem. You can get your ideal loadouts very quickly (except Specializations), so I don't see the cause for complain.
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The Mantle of Responsibility in competitive multiplayer was once Halo's but is now CoD's. Things I wanted to see in other multiplayer games that began with Halo (MM being adopted as the XBL standard after H2, Theater, Forge, fun co op modes, etc.) have finally reached the competition (like CoD), but the roles of these franchises in relation to the rest of the inudstry have changed since Reach.
Now it seems it's up to the CoD franchise to innovate and evolve current standards so that we can experience them in other multiplayer games. Reach and 4 had a ton riding on them, but came up short IMO. Just think about the impact this had on the industry and as a result, look at the what it's done to the fans.
With all this in mind, seeing how Reach/4 is being handled by numerous teams and more frequent updates, I think we'll see a shorter period between mainline Halo games. Now I'm just waiting for CoD to break out a map editor better than Far Cry 3's..
CoD (the style since MW) is to shooters as Xbox is to gaming: Gather tons of knowledge from the competition, join the game late and straight up dominate by doing what everyone else does, better, but staying true to the core of your franchise. Now the rest of the multiplayer competition is playing catch-up by following the trend instead of innovating on top of what made their own franchises unique.
8 RT is good for tablets, I suppose. Well, it's just a stripped down Win8 designed to run on non-x86 (ARM) CPUs, so, the only applications it supports are those can are in the app store.
The Surface Pro tablet, is more of an ultrabook, and will likely have a similar price, but it runs full fledged Win8 with an Intel CPU. Core i3/i5 IIRC.
Devolution
Member
The problem with rewarding players who get up there in rank is the plebs will fucking whine so hard about it being unavailable to them. Basically fuck entitled gamers.
I don't really care how fast you get something. Locking it up isn't why I played Halo to fucking begin with. If it's going to turn into one of those games where you have to play a bunch to get weapons, perks, whatever the terminology it loses its appeal to me. It's just another grindfest.
I don't really care how fast you get something. Locking it up isn't why I played Halo to fucking begin with. If it's going to turn into one of those games where you have to play a bunch to get weapons, perks, whatever the terminology it loses its appeal to me. It's just another grindfest.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Heres the deal.
Do a Halo 2 ranking system. Now that theres less cheaters and less modding and quicker ways to ban them it will work. Not everyone can get to 50 and people will accept their # and just try to progress instead. It will let people fight for their rank. Lower each rank by 3 ranks every other month and do not have a highest rank indicator anywhere on a players baseball card. I dont want to fight through scrubs every month to get back into the closer MM games. I also dont want people able to sit on their high rank and never play it.
Incorporate Halo 3's reward system. Meaning you only get points if you win, this ensures everyone is going to actually be using their controllers to play the game for the win. In Reach and Halo 4 you often have people goofing off just waiting for the XP at the end of the game. See: FF idlers. This EXP will only unlock aesthetic things.
Have certain Feats of Strength to get certain special armor:
Stay below a certain quit %:Unlock some unique armors
Get a 2for1 laser: Unlock something
Do a Halo 2 ranking system. Now that theres less cheaters and less modding and quicker ways to ban them it will work. Not everyone can get to 50 and people will accept their # and just try to progress instead. It will let people fight for their rank. Lower each rank by 3 ranks every other month and do not have a highest rank indicator anywhere on a players baseball card. I dont want to fight through scrubs every month to get back into the closer MM games. I also dont want people able to sit on their high rank and never play it.
Incorporate Halo 3's reward system. Meaning you only get points if you win, this ensures everyone is going to actually be using their controllers to play the game for the win. In Reach and Halo 4 you often have people goofing off just waiting for the XP at the end of the game. See: FF idlers. This EXP will only unlock aesthetic things.
Have certain Feats of Strength to get certain special armor:
Stay below a certain quit %:Unlock some unique armors
Get a 2for1 laser: Unlock something
The Librarian
Banned
Re: Progression system. I have a funny experience with Halo 4's progression system. Progression systems are supposed to give you an incentive to keep going, to keep playing the game.
In Halo 4's case, though, the opposite happened for me. Halo 4's progression system gave me disincentive to play.
I'm not a fan of flinch at all. While playing Halo 4, there were a couple of fights I believed I lost solely because of the unpredictability of that mechanic. After getting tired of it, and considering that I would have to deal with flinch for another fifty levels at least, I realized I couldn't deal with it for that long.
It wasn't the final nail in the coffin for me, but it's one of the reasons why my multiplayer sessions have been sporadic at best. I simply don't feel like grinding for 50+ levels to get a mechanic that'll make the game more fun for me.
Also, it's not really a progression system if you unlock 50% of the good stuff within the first ten levels. It's another one of those cases where Halo 4 straddles the divide between Halo (putting everyone on an equal footing as much as possible) and CoD (unlock better weapons as you progress), and the result is less than satisfactory at best.
In Halo 4's case, though, the opposite happened for me. Halo 4's progression system gave me disincentive to play.
I'm not a fan of flinch at all. While playing Halo 4, there were a couple of fights I believed I lost solely because of the unpredictability of that mechanic. After getting tired of it, and considering that I would have to deal with flinch for another fifty levels at least, I realized I couldn't deal with it for that long.
It wasn't the final nail in the coffin for me, but it's one of the reasons why my multiplayer sessions have been sporadic at best. I simply don't feel like grinding for 50+ levels to get a mechanic that'll make the game more fun for me.
Also, it's not really a progression system if you unlock 50% of the good stuff within the first ten levels. It's another one of those cases where Halo 4 straddles the divide between Halo (putting everyone on an equal footing as much as possible) and CoD (unlock better weapons as you progress), and the result is less than satisfactory at best.
I wouldn't be opposed to getting progression points, or spartan bucks, or whatever they want to call them in MP if you can also get them by doing specific shit in game. Of course, if you win, you get a good chunk, but what if you lose? Lost rank, and no space allards?
Same. I pretty much have completely stopped playing Halo 4 just because of all the high-leveled unlocks.
I've always found them annoying, and I just can't stomach progression systems that actually affect gameplay after Battlefield 3. That and I feel a lot of the perks and starter weapons remove what made Halo Halo for me.
How else will they get people to keep playing their game? By making it a fun experience worth going to day after day? Ha!
NP. I hope it works well for ya. Can't wait to get my mitts on one too.
I really enjoy the progression system in Halo 4. For the first few days I really enjoyed checking the Spartan Hub and deciding what I wanted to purchase and add to my Loadouts.
I get what you guys are saying about not wanting unlocks to affect gameplay, and I totally agree, HOWEVER I think that Halo 4 does a great job at avoiding that by presenting you with options on how to spend your points in no particular order. And the weapons are so closely balanced that it's merely a matter of preference as to what you end up wanting to use.
The only gripes I have with the progression system is how front-heavy the unlocks are, and how disappointingly subtle the commendation unlocks are. Especially since armor skins don't even show up in RvB gametypes. So, who really gives a shit? Also pretty disappointed at the scaling of the armor unlocks. I'm not entirely sure if they have the artists decide on which armor is reserved for higher level unlocks, but a lot of the later armor looks terribly plain compared to the more exotic selection you unlock early on. And pre-order bonuses didn't help that much, a lot of people still rocking Venator or LOCUS armor, wasted opportunity there when pre-order bonuses undermine your own progression system.
I get what you guys are saying about not wanting unlocks to affect gameplay, and I totally agree, HOWEVER I think that Halo 4 does a great job at avoiding that by presenting you with options on how to spend your points in no particular order. And the weapons are so closely balanced that it's merely a matter of preference as to what you end up wanting to use.
The only gripes I have with the progression system is how front-heavy the unlocks are, and how disappointingly subtle the commendation unlocks are. Especially since armor skins don't even show up in RvB gametypes. So, who really gives a shit? Also pretty disappointed at the scaling of the armor unlocks. I'm not entirely sure if they have the artists decide on which armor is reserved for higher level unlocks, but a lot of the later armor looks terribly plain compared to the more exotic selection you unlock early on. And pre-order bonuses didn't help that much, a lot of people still rocking Venator or LOCUS armor, wasted opportunity there when pre-order bonuses undermine your own progression system.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Yea you get 1 point if you win, nothing if you lose. Nothing gets you points besides winning cause you just want everyone to be trying to win, no specific actions gets you points, cause you dont want any part of the progression system effection gameplay.
Like for instance you give an extra point to flag cappers, well now you have your team killing you so they can cap the flag at the end for a bonus point of invisible bullshit.
Have like a total of 3000pts of stuff to buy so people would need to win 3000 games to unlock every piece of armor. Although its all purchaseable from the start so you wouldn't have to wait til 3000 to get the piece that certain "piece" so theres no feeling of 'oh I'll never be able to afford X'
Also to answer question yes if you lost in ranked playlists you would lose some rank possible go down a level, and get no EXP pts. In social if you lost you would just get no points. if you win in social you get a point. If you win in rank you get rank points and exp pt.
Theres really no reason to do anything more nuts than a simple system like that.
It would allow for a 2 point weekend playlist. And challenges complete would net you a point or two.
Devolution
Member
What made Halo appeal to me was regardless of how much time I spent away from it I was able to pick it back up and play it. I guess this is "casual" or whatever but progression in FPSes seems so counter-intuitive. This is why I couldn't stomach MMOs once I started doing shit other than school + gaming. There was always something more to get and competition was basically who could spend the most time grinding shit out. No fucking thanks.
And you hit another interesting point. The everybody has to win mentality has really negatively affected gaming as a whole. Games use to be about getting better and learning what works and doesnt. Now that everybody has to win, that aspect just goes by the wayside and people get bored fast. There is no challenge to it all. I know that not everything has to that rigid, but there has be some kind of evolution in where you bring back that challenge but ease people into it.
Bringing up Halo 2 again, but that game still in my eyes handled the challenge and progression aspects so well. Yes, there were some bad aspect about Halo 2 systems but the good outweigh the bad.
On an kind of unrelated note: great to see a decent discussion for once!
This is true, and I feel this applies to rank junkies equally as well. Boosting is a plague and didn't really exist in the times of UT/Quake, and amends to systems have to be continually made to avoid exploitation, and become a waste of time for everyone.
IMO the current system is absolutely perfect with how they handle armor unlocks, it just needs to be completely divorced from anything that can affect gameplay.
Part 2 is my Map Pass/Specialization/Emblem from the LE. Want/need it? I don't want to kill your productivity.
Part 2 is my Map Pass/Specialization/Emblem from the LE. Want/need it? I don't want to kill your productivity.
Phew, I can work a lil then :_)
Part 2 is my Map Pass/Specialization/Emblem from the LE. Want/need it? I don't want to kill your productivity.
A $20 value.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Preach it. Progression in competitive MP is stupid as hell.
Devolution
Member
Because everyone is following the mold of "don't get better just load up 'rock' to their 'scissors.'" It's crap. It's the reason I got tired of dealing with MMO PVP and now it's crossed over into Halo.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Part 2 is my Map Pass/Specialization/Emblem from the LE. Want/need it? I don't want to kill your productivity.
Dibs? I have two people that can use that (through the sharing trick).
I also wouldn't be offended if you gave it to any other losers below this comment <3
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Cheers.
Edit: Sent to Heckfu. Hopefully no one snagged it first.
I was going to play Halo 4 last night as a final check to see if I was sure I wanted to give it away. And then I realized I didn't want to play Halo 4, so I didn't. Which pretty much settled it. The game just holds no appeal to me. I will hang onto the game itself for a while, as I might dabble now and then. Next year. Sometime. Maybe.
SNIP
Part 3 is a bit trickier and I'm not sure how to do it, but I have a lot of Halo related stuff I'd like to give away. I don't want to do some contest or anything, just to hand it out to people who want it. I'll figure something out; I'll list it out later tonight.
RE: Progression systems, COD, Halo 4, etc
I still think juices made the coldest and realest critique that summarizes everything we've been discussing for a month now:
Devs sticking in progressions systems and trying to emulate COD reminds me of devs trying to make "Halo killers" years ago by adding a two gun system and shields. Anyone can reuse someone else's idea, it's the subtleties of the market leader's implementation that separates it from the rest.
I still think juices made the coldest and realest critique that summarizes everything we've been discussing for a month now:
Devs sticking in progressions systems and trying to emulate COD reminds me of devs trying to make "Halo killers" years ago by adding a two gun system and shields. Anyone can reuse someone else's idea, it's the subtleties of the market leader's implementation that separates it from the rest.
The more I play Halo 4, the more I find it bad that they even went the route of putting perks behind a progression system. Just feels wrong in some sense, but strangely I can’t articulate why. Need some time to mull over it.
I'm glad the H4 progression system was so front-loaded, can't necessarily understand why people would want the period where the game is artificially crippling the player to be extended. I'd rather a system exist that I can basically ignore after a few hours than be constantly reminded of the carrots obnoxiously dangling in front of me as poopsockers use items that would take another six hours of play for me to acquire. The Specializations are bad enough in this regard - with Stability, I can just dump on pre-50 players on mid-large maps not because of skill, but by a menu choice.
Aesthetic unlocks are totally fine. I like that aspect of Reach's system. Locking emblems behind it is kind of totally disgusting to me since they are such a fundamental part of online player identity, but I guess that ship has sailed.
Aesthetic unlocks are totally fine. I like that aspect of Reach's system. Locking emblems behind it is kind of totally disgusting to me since they are such a fundamental part of online player identity, but I guess that ship has sailed.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Dibs 2?
I also wouldn't be offended if you gave it to any other losers above this comment <3
Fixed.
Devolution
Member
I don't want it period. I think other people's point though is that doing CoD elements half-ass is even more stupid than having it completely gone.
Probably because it invalidates what made Halo different from CoD and MMOs. At least in Reach everything was available from the start. And I feel gross just saying that.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Should have traded that console for it, moneybags!
Your beard won it for you.
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