I was complaining about this pre-release as my biggest fear for Halo 4 and it was realized. IMO this is by far the worst thing about Halo 4 and it's multiplayer specifically. Yes, I think this is worse than JiP, playlists, all of that. The hours it takes to get some basic stuff is ridiculous, and I can see why casuals actually jumped ship.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo |OT13|
- Thread starter kylej
- Start date
- Status
Not hiring a PR person and then finally a Playlist manager 1 month after the game is out is pretty ballsy.
Exactly this is my biggest problem, the game is awesome with the no sprint/no instant respawn gametypes. JUST one preset loudout, weapons on the map and everything else is fine (flinch is probably the last problem)
But then it is damn fine gameplay-wise, but we will never see this kind of game online in Halo 4 and the whole system around it destroys it.
Devolution
Member
It really makes me want to get into fighters more than ever. No unlocking of fireballs, shoryukens, ultras, supers etc.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
No, just unlocking of characters, costumes, levels and other random shit.
Devolution
Member
Right. Shit I don't care about and doesn't alter gameplay.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
That's pretty much how Halo is, everything you need to compete is unlocked very early on with the exception of the flinch "fixing" shit.
One thing about is also that some of the perks behind the walls actually counter some of the more annoying other base level perks. Get bucked by PV till level 60 and then you can finally counter it! THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.
Devolution
Member
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Is. Everything you need to be competitive is already unlocked with the exception of the flinch perk which is arguable if you "need" it or not.
Plus there are modes in Halo 4 that don't require unlocks at all.
There's plenty of shit to bitch about with Halo 4, but the progression system isn't one of them. Especially when you say "I'll go play these other games that don't have that shit" when many of them do.
I'm not so sure about true potential. Even if you strip everything down and bring back classic settings, you still have to deal with these absolutely terrible outsourced maps.
I do not want to spend time playing on maps that very clearly were made by people who either do not understand what makes Halo maps great, or at the very least were so scared to dip their toe in uncharted waters that they made this endless group of large, rocky, drab maps rather than doing something new and amazing. They aren't fun to play on. They aren't nice to look at. They're a mess, and I couldn't be less interested in playing Halo on them again.
I do not want to spend time playing on maps that very clearly were made by people who either do not understand what makes Halo maps great, or at the very least were so scared to dip their toe in uncharted waters that they made this endless group of large, rocky, drab maps rather than doing something new and amazing. They aren't fun to play on. They aren't nice to look at. They're a mess, and I couldn't be less interested in playing Halo on them again.
Nope, never seen the appeal of them.
OverHeat
« generous god »
P9gfr-wy2r2-tqf3m-2fmh9-jgk9v 48h enjoy.
It'll be really good, but yeah I agree, the maps are holding it back.
People hated Reach's maps, but I don't think Halo 4's are that much better, if at all.
Devolution
Member
Which of them do? I've said no such thing really. You're making shit up.
PvP in WoW was basically rock, paper, scissors and you get new abilities every couple of levels. There was pvp up to 80 with the groups basically being say X1 to X9. Then 80 vs 80. Then there was stuff on weapons you could activate, better gear and OP shit with a couple of classes (9 of them). Basically it would never be properly balanced but they ensured that it was worse when you had to grind to get gear just so you could survive a 5 second blitz of someone else.
mhi
Member
After the game came out ?? Didn't they learn fron Bungie ? Even they eventually dedicated a person to it.
Hats off to Ninja 0n Fire but no love lost for Shishka.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Yea I really hope the model for the next Halo has 6-7 small that are 8-10 player maps and 2-3 BTB maps. Followed by a DLC pack with another small map with FORGE in mind and 2 BTB maps one with FORGE in mind.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
You literally just said it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45711996&postcount=10892
It would probably make more sense to find ones that DON'T do unlocks/progression since these days there's probably fewer of them. I'll let you go find them though since you're clearly already riled.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Depends on what you play. You play SF4AE and all the characters and levels are there upfront; you get colours based on how many matches you play with a certain character but nothing else. You play Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom and everything is there upfront, including colours. You play VF5FS and you get everything upfront.
Devolution
Member
Um you have terrible reading comprehension. I don't care about unlocking aesthetics. Halo 4 is not strictly aesthetics.
Problem is, everything you need can't be used all at once. I'd like to not flinch when shot, not be seen through walls, be able to pick up grenades from dead players, have my shields recharge faster - at all times. You know, they way shit used to be before they broke everything for the sake of creating perks to fill the holes they poked in it.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Yes every month there is a gaming meeting with the top developers and they al decide where gaming is going, and have to stick with that decision or else they are cast out of the club...
Devolution
Member
While I think the Halo 4 maps are better than Reach I have to agree. It was talked about before but secondary objectives like switches need to make a come back and maps that were designed with one gametype in mind rather than all gametypes need to be focused on.
Also I like this Kylej
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Do you blank out entire parts of conversations? I literally just brought up the point that everything you need to be competitive is unlocked nearly from the beginning. Also, there's playlists that don't require unlocked anything.
There's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension, I assure you.
Depends on the playlist. Some of them everything you need IS unlocked from the get go. Also, everything you "need" is unlocked for all other playlists very early on.
Devolution
Member
No I didn't. I already said why I would go to games where you don't unlock shit or basically have to select a perk because they decided you shouldn't retain an ability in prior games. The whole point of unlocking shit is unnecessary and pointless. What's the actual thinking behind that? Who does it serve?
Carrot on a stick
Devolution
Member
And that's why I'm just no longer interested.
And it's not just that they gimped the base player abilities, but it also reeks of creative bankruptcy. They couldn't even come up with a list of perks that would enhance what we already had and be unique to Halo's inherent style, they had to copy many of them straight from Call of Duty, but had to break what was working to justify it.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
People enjoy it. Look at Call of Duty
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
That's an entirely different conversation about game mechanics. The point is you're bitching about a progression system that isn't actually an issue, especially since the "needed" shit is available from very early on, or you can bypass it entirely by going to a different playlist.
The "unlocks" in Halo 4's progression system and the system itself aren't the issue (especially since many of them ARE aesthetic). Games with progression systems aren't inherently bad. That's the main point that's being discussed.
Yeah. And that used to be the allure of just playing another game.
HiredN00bs
Member
I motivate myself with a carrot on a stick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJQEl5vcAo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Edit: The applause gets me every time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJQEl5vcAo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Edit: The applause gets me every time.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
That's not a carrot, and I hope you wash it routinely.
Devolution
Member
Straight rips. I don't think I'd be too happy with even original ones. I don't play Halo to endure paper, rock, scissors. I like everyone basically having rock but being smarter about how they throw it.
No shit but it's also an element within that game that people have come to enjoy within the context of that game. There's also a reason some people don't play it. Hence why some people here like Halo and don't like CoD. Or they don't like either trying to imitate the other because they play them for entirely different reasons.
They're related in this instance. Creating artificial barriers where they didn't exist before is a gamble and in Halo their absence was the appeal for many.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Well technically it takes awhile to get those perks and someone whos SR130 can have multiple loadouts in a game with all of the perks. So say they can be using a no flinch perk when they get ordnance they can respawn with ordnance reroll and they get double the amount of shots to get a sniper or something like a cannon usually if they dont they have to settle for a damage boost or overshield...they can have a more varied loadout system which allows them to pick and play better than someone just beginning to unlock things even if they have unlocked the main go-tos like the DMR.
Its just unnecassary. They could have everything unlocked, allow you to build your loadouts from the first game, and you just unlock aesthetic crap.
Yes its not as bad as it could be, but its not the best way to go about it.
It's for personalization and customization according to Frankles. It would make more sense if everything was unlocked from the start if that was the case, though.
There are no playlists where I could have everything I need from the get go all at once. There are no gametype settings where everything I need is available from the start. And there is no reasonable justification for making the game inherently less interesting, even if only for a few hours, for the sake of having a progression system.
I know you're making a joke, but you do realize this is more or less true?
I just watched Indie Game The Movie after picking up the latest Humble Bundle and it was a very interesting watch that I believe you'd enjoy. Essentially what you have is a booming Indie game industry where small development teams create games that are essentially "what THEY want", and fight tooth and nail to sell thousands of copies to a small but passionate group of gamers. Then of course you have them discussing major game titles and literally calling them "shit" because they are highly polished games that are strictly built for mass appeal.
This is what is happening. This is really what has always happened, but this time around it's bothering a lot of the purists who simply want a shiny new copy of Halo 2. Yeah of course it would be great and I'm sure it would sell at least 500k copies, but that is not how the industry works. And to be honest, I feel like you probably know this already.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
For this discussion they are not related. The topic being discussed was progression systems which you directly quoted Overdoziz saying you were going to fighting games because they don't have them, which many of them do.
The point I'm making is that progression systems aren't "bad." And Halo 4's isn't bad in how it's laid out.
Do a lot of the AAs suck? Yeah, that's not the point.
Do a lot of weapons suck? Yeah, also not the point.
Do perks suck? Not so much, but again it's not the point.
You get everything in the progression system to be competitive early on, so inherently nothing is "wrong" with the progression system. It WOULD become an issue if all the "really good shit" was locked away at SR 130, and that's not the case. The only real argument would be for the flinch mechanic, and many people still would rather have another perk over that.
Yeah, that's a whole other can of worms.
I do find it funny that adding a progression system to H4 is excused because "the gaming landscape has changed/everyone is doing it", etc etc.
That's fine. But how the hell does shoehorning a COD system in like that take precedence over, you know, having a working file share? Classic settings in custom games? Why did a decade of groundbreaking legacy features get left behind while the lobby UI got a pointless redesign? Why is an entirely outsourced Forge mode still nothing more than grey blocks, and why can't I play any of its maps?
If features were added to try to keep up with the evolving FPS market, 343 was already behind the times upon release. Blops 2 is doing something interesting with its streaming setup and strong emphasis on its ranking system. Far Cry 3 is doing something interesting with its map editor. Battlefield 3 is doing something interesting with scale and major post-release updates. Halo 4's throws on a few coats of paint, but it doesn't hide the cracks in the walls. It's a jack of all trades and master of none, and considering how much of the path was cleared for them by Bungie, it's amazing that 343 did almost nothing that you could consider revolutionary or even evolutionary with Halo 4. It's a mish-mash of mediocrity and executive driven design.
But I'm sure Halo 5 will be better!
That's fine. But how the hell does shoehorning a COD system in like that take precedence over, you know, having a working file share? Classic settings in custom games? Why did a decade of groundbreaking legacy features get left behind while the lobby UI got a pointless redesign? Why is an entirely outsourced Forge mode still nothing more than grey blocks, and why can't I play any of its maps?
If features were added to try to keep up with the evolving FPS market, 343 was already behind the times upon release. Blops 2 is doing something interesting with its streaming setup and strong emphasis on its ranking system. Far Cry 3 is doing something interesting with its map editor. Battlefield 3 is doing something interesting with scale and major post-release updates. Halo 4's throws on a few coats of paint, but it doesn't hide the cracks in the walls. It's a jack of all trades and master of none, and considering how much of the path was cleared for them by Bungie, it's amazing that 343 did almost nothing that you could consider revolutionary or even evolutionary with Halo 4. It's a mish-mash of mediocrity and executive driven design.
But I'm sure Halo 5 will be better!
Devolution
Member
I'd rather people just have more personalization of their armor and leave gameplay out of it. Like I said all of this shit is basically the MMOzation (to make up a stupid fucking word) of FPS games and completely unappealing to me.
The progression system isn't within the confines of the gameplay. Why the fuck you can't get that I have no idea. I've said it numerous times now.
Yes you're right, I probably should have mentioned them, besides Haven most maps are just trash.
But I played on some cool forge maps and with the settings it was fantastic.
But yes we need small arena maps
The best.
Oh God, my heart...
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
It's not me that's "not getting it" no matter how much you want to change the subject. I'll let you go be all riled though, I got me some pork steaks to BBQ.
- Status