You fight like a younger man.
Admirable but misplaced.
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Halo |OT13|
- Thread starter kylej
- Start date
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Admirable but misplaced.
There's nothing left of that horse but glue.
Who made you the Halo police? Let him have that attitude if he wants. He doesn't like AA and he should be able to say so. It's not wrong. It's an opinion and we allow different opinions on here.
You're gonna hafta to explain this reference.
K, that makes sense. Just out of curiosity, do you know how long the normal credits are? Cause I don't think any of the EEs hit 4 hours of actual movie time. RotK almost does though...I think.
Because there is a halo audience that has two games of AA's now and they aren't wrong for liking them either. Classic modes and Progressive modes are so easy to implement if they build a base for both of them.
The whole idea of forge started as a way to change weapon spawns around on the fly. I dont see why coexisting is so difficult. I dont want my experience to come at their fun either.
I just want some classic team slayer and some classic objective. I've supported the game longer, but that doesnt mean the new comers aren't relevant to long term success of the series either.
horses are dead
I think the best map for a balanced sniper is Complex.
Maybe not a removal, but at the least they need to be moved. It's so easily accessible where is now, there's no danger in the rush to it. It's in one of the safest places on the map in terms of cover, and more importantly, it spawns in the most effective sniping spot on the map - you have line of sight into the enemy base the second you pick it up.
The more that I see Shatter matches play out the more I wonder what function those auxiliary bases were meant to have outside of Extraction. Nobody uses 'em, and nobody plays Extraction (the paywall was such a good idea, 343). Take 'em out, solve this problem.
Why would I know this? I'm an American.
12 hours left to make my prediction come true! :O
Then what happens when it starts randomly respawning around the map later and appears in personal ordinance? Weapon spawns just dont matter anymore. It's all fucked.
http://youtu.be/DsaVEHdXqs4
lol, I don't actually know, some people were talking about LotR extended editions earlier, before I jumped in.
BlueScrote
Member
Weird. I definitely recall them being longer. Although that's still a lot of credits.
Orochinagis
Member
And marshmallows, really.
Captain Blood
Member
This cracked me up for some reason. Don't disagree in the slightest.
Oh sure, I know, trust me on that. I'm not a fan of the system.
At least we have some measure of control over the initial spawns, so might as well use it.
NullPointer
Member
Just curious. How did you play Halo maps before you knew where everything was and when it spawned?
I'm American too. Not sure what nationality has to do with it.
Check that non-existent front page.
Yeah, that could work. Then again Wreckage doesn’t have any snipers in the initial global ordnance and I’ve not seen people get it from their personal ordnance from the matches I’ve played. I think because of the lack of snipers that people are more quick to seek out battles and venture out more on the map. With Shatter, in the beginning it’s a constant dead silence and irritating camping from both parties. Nobody want to move, but if you do you pretty much pay the price. You could argue that any map with Snipers is like that, but Shatter just makes it the central theme the moment the match starts.
I am hate Complex. Enough with maps with buildings where people can camp on top.
Steelyuhas
Member
Not sure, I was going to actually pull out my EE's and look, but it turns out I'm not really sure where they are.
ThisisHaloGAF.gif
Cross posting from gaming side.
My main issues with the game
1. Reach already challenged the notion of players being unequal on spawn. Halo 4 took that to a whole new level. Now we choose our starting weapon, secondary, armor ability, and 2 gameplay changing perks that range from not that bad to giving someone a massive advantage.
-Dexterity lets you reload so fast. Works wonders on the boltshot. But worst of all, it affects power weapons as well. These used to be balanced by the fact that they took a long time to reload like the rockets.
-Ammo perk, lets you have an awesome amount of ammo on spawn. Problem is, it affects power weapons. These too, in previous Halo's were balances by the amount of ammo given. Some maps had rockets have only 2 shots. Some had 4. With the ammo perk you have 6 no matter where you get them.
-We also have specialization that give you a huge advantage in vehicles, let you predict the stupid random ordnance system, let you RE-ROLL your ordnance so you always get something good.
-This also fucks things up with things like letting people spawn with a personal shotgun, or things like plasma pistols and plasma grenades in BTB. Now vehicles are useless. Nice.
-I could go on, point is, I'm not a fan. Halo 1-3 I regarded the equal starting ground as one of Halo's core tenants as much as shields, reticle aiming, the jumping...
2. Global Ordnance. Not only is this bad for Halo I think its bad for ANY game that wants to have a fair, competetive environment. What good game do you know of that has power weapon spawning, or any kind of power up spawning that is completely random. How is that supposed to be good, the game becomes a lottery. Even the personal ordnance system is random. It's similar to CoD's killstreak system, but at least then at least THE PERSON knows what they're gonna get. Fine. I get the fact that apparently 343 didn't like that some players took some extra effort to know where and when weapons spawn. Apparently that was unfair. But I don't understand the logic behind blinding everyone when you could have TAUGHT and SHOWN the other players where and when weapons spawn through HUD icons, through announcements. No fucking sense.
3. Removal of the red X's. There is no excuse to this one. And no explanation either. No one had a problem with these. To make matters worse even the firing, taking damage, and speaking indicators got worse or wiped out.
-----------------------
I realize they aren't going to change my 1st problem unless they can title update some kind of restrictions in. But they aren't going to do it. Best I can hope for is introducing playlists with set loadouts. I think the DMR and plasma loadout shit ruin BTB, my favorite playlist in Halo 2 and 3. My favorite way to play Halo. Hasn't been fun since Reach ruined it with bad maps, shitty vehicles, and the DMR. But they probably won't do this. BTB is now super popular because it turned into a random fiesta heavies every game.
Most realistic expectation I have is a hardcore/MLG/classic playlist.
As for the 2nd and 3rd problems.... I think the game would benefit GREATLY if ordnance was made static. At least global ordnance. Personal ordnance is fun and silly and it can stay if it want, but make global ordnance static.
And for gods sake put the Red X's and indicators back in. RIP one shot on my X.
My main issues with the game
1. Reach already challenged the notion of players being unequal on spawn. Halo 4 took that to a whole new level. Now we choose our starting weapon, secondary, armor ability, and 2 gameplay changing perks that range from not that bad to giving someone a massive advantage.
-Dexterity lets you reload so fast. Works wonders on the boltshot. But worst of all, it affects power weapons as well. These used to be balanced by the fact that they took a long time to reload like the rockets.
-Ammo perk, lets you have an awesome amount of ammo on spawn. Problem is, it affects power weapons. These too, in previous Halo's were balances by the amount of ammo given. Some maps had rockets have only 2 shots. Some had 4. With the ammo perk you have 6 no matter where you get them.
-We also have specialization that give you a huge advantage in vehicles, let you predict the stupid random ordnance system, let you RE-ROLL your ordnance so you always get something good.
-This also fucks things up with things like letting people spawn with a personal shotgun, or things like plasma pistols and plasma grenades in BTB. Now vehicles are useless. Nice.
-I could go on, point is, I'm not a fan. Halo 1-3 I regarded the equal starting ground as one of Halo's core tenants as much as shields, reticle aiming, the jumping...
2. Global Ordnance. Not only is this bad for Halo I think its bad for ANY game that wants to have a fair, competetive environment. What good game do you know of that has power weapon spawning, or any kind of power up spawning that is completely random. How is that supposed to be good, the game becomes a lottery. Even the personal ordnance system is random. It's similar to CoD's killstreak system, but at least then at least THE PERSON knows what they're gonna get. Fine. I get the fact that apparently 343 didn't like that some players took some extra effort to know where and when weapons spawn. Apparently that was unfair. But I don't understand the logic behind blinding everyone when you could have TAUGHT and SHOWN the other players where and when weapons spawn through HUD icons, through announcements. No fucking sense.
3. Removal of the red X's. There is no excuse to this one. And no explanation either. No one had a problem with these. To make matters worse even the firing, taking damage, and speaking indicators got worse or wiped out.
-----------------------
I realize they aren't going to change my 1st problem unless they can title update some kind of restrictions in. But they aren't going to do it. Best I can hope for is introducing playlists with set loadouts. I think the DMR and plasma loadout shit ruin BTB, my favorite playlist in Halo 2 and 3. My favorite way to play Halo. Hasn't been fun since Reach ruined it with bad maps, shitty vehicles, and the DMR. But they probably won't do this. BTB is now super popular because it turned into a random fiesta heavies every game.
Most realistic expectation I have is a hardcore/MLG/classic playlist.
As for the 2nd and 3rd problems.... I think the game would benefit GREATLY if ordnance was made static. At least global ordnance. Personal ordnance is fun and silly and it can stay if it want, but make global ordnance static.
And for gods sake put the Red X's and indicators back in. RIP one shot on my X.
brokenwatch
Member
Tawpgun, nice post. I agree with a lot of it. Another thing that drives me nuts is the instant respawn. On BTB, I will have teammates who go -20, -30, even -40 on K-D. How is a team supposed to win with one or two of those players can affect the score so dramatically? These people run out into the open, die, press X to respawn, and then do that for the rest of the game.
Shit I forgot about that. Instant Respawn so bad. Can't carry at the rate people are dying.
With tact.
The game plays very differently when you start getting to higher levels of play. Not saying anything is wrong with the lower skill levels at all. Proper matchmaking should take care of that anyway.
When DLC maps drop and the game first comes out its just messy and random. By 2-3 games on the same map you know where the power weapons spawn, at least the important ones. Once you know where they spawn, you KNEW that they respawn every 3 minutes. Now, unless you have wicked good communication, you never know EXACTLY when they were picked up, I usually never know. I just know that it takes about 10-15 seconds to get to them off of initial spawn. Then they respawn more or less every 3 minutes after that. You set up around the spawn around every interval.
I didn't do it in Halo 2 or 3. I started doing it in Reach and it was so easy.
whaaaaat
Maybe that's why he's sticking to it.
Offset, to some degree, by the ability to take out the guy you just ALMOST beat (he's one-shot, you're fresh).
Vehicles are not 'useless' because of plasma pistols and grenades - they just can't run roughshod over a badly-organized team any more. I've seen plenty of good driver/gunner teams still rack up plenty of kills - they just have to be more careful about it.
And to the guy who said he regularly gets teamed up with people who go -40... I say bullshit. I don't think I've seen -40 more than once or twice in all the games I've played (hell, you could add Reach to the mix and you'd only add a handful more). Yes, people go -10 and -20 - but -40? REGULARLY? Yeah... no.
Ammo perk: yes, it gives you 6 rockets instead of 2/4. I find that most GOOD players are willing to pass on the extra ammo for something like stability... and many less-good players will die with that nearly-full overammo'd power weapon, giving the OTHER team a shot at the ammo (a shot they wouldn't have had if it had only had 2 shots in it to begin with).
I tried the re-roll perk - I ended up going from 3 mediocre choices to 3 OTHER mediocre choices. I switched back to a perk I felt actually BENEFITTED me.
In short - all the complaints you have are minor. I'm not seeing Dexterity turning the tide in every game, I'm not seeing Ammo turning the tide. Yes, good players can use these perks to their advantage - but so can you. When I'm on either side of a drubbing (either my team crushes the competition, or my team is crushed), it's rarely because one team used the right perks - it's because one team SHOOTS BETTER THAN THE OTHER TEAM.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Even if it seems like minor things, the perks create imbalances between players by their very nature. When you start mixing in some shotty netcode, it just further creates inconsistencies. I'd rather just have a base trait spartan that does everything properly from the start. Flinch seems like an entire addition just to have the perk counterbalance it. Just like nade damage is all over the place unless I equip the right thing.
If they are so minor, then why even have them? It comes back to the CoDifying the gameplay with customization options which are only there to serve as unlocks and appease the tinker crowd. They do change encounters and its created a class based game even if its subtle.
EDIT: And when I say customization options, believe me I think they are paramount to the experience in a game by game basis. I think its nice to have this options when making custom game modes and things like that, but its applied to everything now and at the cost of classic options and entire modes missing.
VivaciousJazzy
Member
How halo should be played.
Rickenslacker
Banned
It's not difficult to get the hang of spawns just roaming the map, every map has its learning curve and spawns are just an element of that. If you really wanted to hammer it out you could just go into custom games solo and see it for yourself.
If this was really a problem that needed fixing, an overhead map detailing the spawns could be on the lobby UI when the map was selected. All that space could've gone to something other than giant icons and player cards.
I always wanted one of those but never felt like spending the dough just to cheat at Halo. Would make Halo 3 loads more tolerable for me though.
I think you're probably right - they're there to appease an audience that wants something new. And it's possible that they've made changes specifically to allow perks that offset the changes - not really a philosophy I can get behind.
But at the end of the day, I guess my point is that none of them 'ruin' the game - they simply make it different. They add a layer that wasn't there before. And yes, I realize a lot of people would appreciate not HAVING that layer, at all. (I don't understand why stripping out extras isn't possible - to me, offering the option seems like a no-brainer. I'm not going to try and justify this, or speak for 343; if they want to explain it, they will.) I'm saying that in the non-stripped-down lists (currently all of them
), having the 'perks' changes gameplay - but doesn't fundamentally unbalance it to the point of unplayability. Yes, that's an opinion. I think it's just as valid, and just as backed-up by anectdotal data, as the opposite opinion, being championed at the moment by Tawpgun. I mean there was a time when pretty much all MP games featured weapons on the map. Or went in the opposite directions in games like Counter-strike and Shadowrun where your loadouts are earned in round-based play and the strategy ramps up on a curve round to round. Of course those modes dont have respawn period so they are quite different beasts.
Of all the issues you can have with the game though, packages are the least influential. I see the argument for hating global and personal ordnance (personally I like elements of them but I think they tip too far into unpredictability), and instant respawn as they dramatically change up certain elements. Even loadouts weapons are a much bigger change. But you're far more likely to die because someone garnered an incineration cannon or was packing a Boltshot then you are because someone had dexterity.
1. Yes this is true, but the fact that thats possible I don't like at all.
2. If only you could show me clips. I saw myself as a very good hog driver in H3. 2856 wheelman medals. In my time with H4, I haven't seen anyone do anything significant in a warthog. OP Gauss Hog aside, I haven't gotten any gunner more than I think 3-4 kills before someone blew us up, making it a net gain of 1-2 kills. I find myself running past the hog now because I can be more deadly on the ground. If theres some youtube video, some clip someone has on their fileshare of Halo 4 hoggin, let me know. I wonder what that Halo Wheelmen group is up to now actually... But this goes back to a theme of punishing mistakes. People cried about the Hog on standoff. I had no issues with it. If people are dumb enough to rush outside and get killed shit sucks. You have plasma pistol, power drian, and plasma grenades that spawn in the base. If you time it right you might be able to get rockets too. I just miss fun BTB.
3. I don't think I've seen -40 yet, though with instant respawn in BTB... I don't think its out of the question. I think its very possible and likely its happened.
4. I actually don't think flinch is as bad as everyone else thinks. I think the fact that something like Stability exists is pretty bad. Flinch sucks yeah, but now to counteract that we have snipers who can shoot while under fire. I only use ammo in my BTB loadout but my oh my when I get my Incinerator cannon or Binary rifle all ammo'd up its a one way train to free kills town.
5. It's my next perk im going for. Maybe its just I lost some matches because of a bad dice roll. But when I saw an enemy team getting snipers consistently on Abandon... and I was stuck with a needler.... well... It's not a magic solution, but it skews the odds in your favor.
6. I think the perk complaints can be seen as minor, but to think they don't affect them game is silly. A team thats much better will always win against a team that terrible. No question there. What happens is the gray area between the skills of teams was made wider with Halo 4's changes. Just too much randomness in the game now.
But I appreciate this back and forth, seems more like classic Halogaf except without people actually playing the game
I love you man, but vehicle gameplay is absolutely broken in Halo 4. I rarely speak my mind about complaints, but I just gotta say that. Their is no point to hopping into a warthog/vehicle anymore.
Here is how every Ragnarok game begins. Two people hop into Mantis. Two people hop into Banshee. Mantis takes down Banshees. Mantis get 1 -2 kills (if even) before being EMP'd and blown up from Plasma grenades, or hyjacked. The rest of the gamethe vehicle spawning will differ now, and every vehicle will get EMP'd and blown within a minute of going out. If it last more then that, the enemy team is bad.
The end of your day and my day are very different.I think you're probably right - they're there to appease an audience that wants something new. And it's possible that they've made changes specifically to allow perks that offset the changes - not really a philosophy I can get behind.
But at the end of the day, I guess my point is that none of them 'ruin' the game - they simply make it different. They add a layer that wasn't there before. And yes, I realize a lot of people would appreciate not HAVING that layer, at all. (I don't understand why stripping out extras isn't possible - to me, offering the option seems like a no-brainer. I'm not going to try and justify this, or speak for 343; if they want to explain it, they will.) I'm saying that in the non-stripped-down lists (currently all of them
I'm OCD as fuck, my enjoyment of the game is way more then my ability to out-shoot an opponent.
Things like map control and the zen of a match are important to me. I like the randomness introduced by playing against a human in an equal system (or as close to equal as possible).
I don't like the game adding more randomization because it starts to take away my ability to out-smart, which is what gets me off. It also cheapens the accomplishments and the rush... wish is why I think FOR ME Halo 4 lacks exciting moments. It feels more like rifle drivel all the time. Fun sure, but not that excitement of flatout trapping someone because I was the smarter player.
Tell that to the 90% of the spawns on that map that were outside with no cover, with an OP chaingun that killed in the blink of an eye. God help you if you spawned up on that rear butte where your only cover was a couple of cement roadblocks and the enemy hog was rampaging in your base.
Its vehicle health model was fine, the chaingun was not. This is not an endorsement of what vehicles are now, just a condemnation of elements of what came before too.
People want to drive around racking up easily kills in a warthog a la Halo 3. Want to spend all day making non vehicle users miserable. Vehicles are an important part of Halo. It's true. But, the importance in combat has been greatly exagerrated. Use it for fast transport. Capturing a flag. Giving a bomb carrier a speed boost.
Exactly.
If you want vehicle combat go play Twisted Metal 5 (or whatever number they're at now)... H3's vehicle combat was detrimental to combat overall.
Exactly.
If you want vehicle combat go play Twisted Metal 5 (or whatever number they're at now)... H3's vehicle combat was detrimental to combat overall.
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