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Halo |OT13|

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F

FyreWulff

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HTSCL.jpg
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Two ads in one tile? Amazing
 
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xxjuicesxx

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
I see this point raised often, my reply is always why change so much to the point you alienate those mass casuals anyhow? I've honestly always wanted to play MLG but just never liked their settings more than the default game. I suppose I like the idea of getting the random newbies out of my potential team mate matches and ensuring players who want to play "properly and competitively" get matched instead. Has assault ever been part of MLG, I don't recall it being an official gametype? Why no 1 sided games, why no vehicles etc etc.

I know this is a lesser example of what my post was about but look at say Murder Miners. Why can't that make it to a fully developed MLG game for example? We'd all like to see spectator mode, film rendering/sharing so why not just do that in house. If MLG or we are so confident that these features, mechanics and settings are the pinnacle when that is released as a full game it would negate your comment about its sole purpose. Perhaps the competitive audience really is too small, which again leads back to why make things so removed from the default game...
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They've tried all this. Assault was around during H2. Assault Midship was insane. Then Assault settings took a turn for the worse and were removed from H3 (They were tried)

They did try 1side settings for awhile. I believe they did try 1flag Lockout but it kept ending in ties of 2-2 because they always managed to get the flag from Elbow to Snipe 3.

You have to understand the settings up til Reach were based upon years of understanding of Halo being Halo. MLG grew from out of a few players basement to what it is now because of Halo. Sure it no longer makes them the kind of money SCII will but they are about competitive settings and making a general gametype that everyone can practice.

Why not vehicles? Are you fucking kidding? Vehicles are the least skillful thing in Halo. You have a damage/speed/shield/health bonus to run around in killing people. Its literally the cheapest thing ever you cant counter it. Vehicles only work when you have a bunch of casuals running around. See Gamesagers stream for proof. The kid takes a vehicle and a good team and makes 95% of casuals quit Halo. He is the ultimate cleanser.

I also have to mention that they clearly see their settings arent as popular as normal settings, they can probably see that clear as day looking at the playlist numbers from H3 and Reach. However I doubt they care. Every stream from every tournament they posted about increased viewership, and increased attendance. I dont think it fell til Reach and the fact noone cared about Reach. (No raking system, No cares)
 
M

malfcn

Member
Playing Flood. I am a Spartan standing in the middle of open on Complex and I just die. Nothing killed me. And the match music from the round before is still playing. Huh?
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
malfcn said:
Playing Flood. I am a Spartan standing in the middle of open on Complex and I just die. Nothing killed me. And the match music from the round before is still playing. Huh?
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Lag?

Also perhaps I think if all the zombies quit it forces someone new to become a zombie?
 
M

malfcn

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Shipped everything but the Prometheus book (need your address, malfcn!) and Halo 4, which I need to find a box for. Should ship Monday.

I learned that the post office is very picky about having both first and last names. Overheat, that became your last name. First name is Mike.

Moa, I had to come up with a last name for you. Which is how I ended up both spelling and pronouncing "Dongblain" for the postal worker. Awkward silence ensued.
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I'm a dolt and thought you would PM me. Sent one off.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
They've tried all this. Assault was around during H2. Assault Midship was insane. Then Assault settings took a turn for the worse and were removed from H3 (They were tried)

They did try 1side settings for awhile. I believe they did try 1flag Lockout but it kept ending in ties of 2-2 because they always managed to get the flag from Elbow to Snipe 3.

You have to understand the settings up til Reach were based upon years of understanding of Halo being Halo. MLG grew from out of a few players basement to what it is now because of Halo. Sure it no longer makes them the kind of money SCII will but they are about competitive settings and making a general gametype that everyone can practice.

Why not vehicles? Are you fucking kidding? Vehicles are the least skillful thing in Halo. You have a damage/speed/shield/health bonus to run around in killing people. Its literally the cheapest thing ever you cant counter it. Vehicles only work when you have a bunch of casuals running around. See Gamesagers stream for proof. The kid takes a vehicle and a good team and makes 95% of casuals quit Halo. He is the ultimate cleanser.
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Sucks for assault getting the MLG axe then the Halo 4 axe as well. It is/was my favourite objective gametype by far.

Lockout was always a shit flag map, so was blackout. How could MLG not pickup zanzibar 1 flag or bomb though? What about high ground flag/bomb? Did they ever try 2-sided VIP (no indicators like its first release of course)?

By vehicles I mean perhaps just the warthog or mongoose for flag/bomb runs on some mid sized maps. No tank or wraith or banshee, too OP for competitive that's for sure. As for countering a vehicle I've never had that issue at all with the exception of paradiso which was crap for that by design. Stand Off could get you and your team spawn killed by hogs but that was only if you're team did not work together. At the end of the day so many whinge about PP starts, team DMR and camo/boarding that to me with a little team work and imagination vehicles really aren't that hard to counter.

The imbalance you describe is more from playing matchmaking of randoms vs. teams than the vehicles themselves. Again having a larger sandbox means the counters to vehicles are there.
 
D

dalVlatko

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Lockout was always a shit flag map, so was blackout. How could MLG not pickup zanzibar 1 flag or bomb though? What about high ground flag/bomb? Did they ever try 2-sided VIP (no indicators like its first release of course)?
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I'm guessing MLG doesn't use one sided gametypes because they end in ties too often and aren't as interesting to watch because they can easily lead to spawn camping or camping in general.

Do you want to watch the team that failed their first bomb run on zanzibar get spawn camped for 4 more minutes after it resets?
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
MLG is always 4v4. Zanzibar isnt a 4v4 map. Those are 343/Bungie level decisions lol. MLG understands the player # to map size ratio a lot better. They also understand respawn and objective timings a lot better.

Reach was really hard to get proper settings because of jetpack/sprint skews the map size to player count thing to hell and back. Same with H4.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
dalVlatko said:
I'm guessing MLG doesn't use one sided gametypes because they end in ties too often and aren't as interesting to watch because they can easily lead to spawn camping or camping in general.

Do you want to watch the team that failed their first bomb run on zanzibar get spawn camped for 4 more minutes after it resets?
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While I understand your comment it flies in the face of what MLG posters list as "core Halo" e.g. spawn killing and map control. Isn't that the sort of competitive setting you all champion?

In my entire campaign of Halo 3 objective ranked, which would be close to one of the most number of games played on objective 50 globally I could almost count on my fingers and toes the number of times my team/I got spawn killed over and over in objective games. That is as a random vs. parties of 3 or 4 and over years of playing that playlist too. That is also with no hitscan BR on an Australian connection playing on USA host for 90+% of games.

Why? Because being stealthy with the bomb even when your team is getting spawn killed is a game winning tactic. Knowing when to return to get your bomb off spawn so that does not happen is a skill or a team work tactic. I would not be able to count the number of times I armed a bomb and then defended it successfully while my team of randoms were getting spawned killed. I look for the other team doing that and time my stealth and arm appropriately, always have.

I've done that very thing against Australian pro players in Halo 3 too when I was playing with mates who are NOT ACL pro players and as expected were getting spawn killed on last resort. To me having a full MLG team vs a full MLG team would mean those scenarios would be few and far between. Now think of the variety gained for spectators, literally new gametypes, new maps, new tactics and strategies. For me it would get me watching MLG at the very least and most likely playing too.

xxjuicesxx said:
MLG is always 4v4. Zanzibar isnt a 4v4 map. Those are 343/Bungie level decisions lol. MLG understands the player # to map size ratio a lot better. They also understand respawn and objective timings a lot better.

Reach was really hard to get proper settings because of jetpack/sprint skews the map size to player count thing to hell and back. Same with H4.
Click to expand...

Not true, zanzibar was at its best with 4v4 flag or bomb. It's why it was so popular in Halo 2 objective. Even more popular than BTB versions by far. Same goes for last resort too.

Beyond that what about maps like turf or terminal for MLG objective. It's these sorts of things that I wanted to see in the Halo 4 MLG V1 settings. A signal that they are embracing the default sandbox but keeping their competitive take on things. For now I just see the same old MLG strip it all back and that's now going to attract a frequent player like me, yet again.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Zanzibar 4v4 was annoying as hell. Go for flag in base, die to camping defenders. Respawn at sea wall walk towards base for ten seconds being bored.

Because MLG is being viewed live it needs to have constant action. Think Onslaught and Amplified and less Zanzibar and Tempest. Those are like weird in between BTB and Small 4v4 maps that really dont have a good fit anywhere.

Not that Zanzibar is bad, its just not good for action 4v4-wise.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
While I understand your comment it flies in the face of what MLG posters list as "core Halo" e.g. spawn killing and map control. Isn't that the sort of competitive setting you all champion?

In my entire campaign of Halo 3 objective ranked, which would be close to one of the most number of games played on objective 50 globally I could almost count on my fingers and toes the number of times my team/I got spawn killed over and over in objective games. That is as a random vs. parties of 3 or 4 and over years of playing that playlist too. That is also with no hitscan BR on an Australian connection playing on USA host for 90+% of games.

Why? Because being stealthy with the bomb even when your team is getting spawn killed is a game winning tactic. Knowing when to return to get your bomb off spawn so that does not happen is a skill or a team work tactic. I would not be able to count the number of times I armed a bomb and then defended it successfully while my team of randoms were getting spawned killed. I look for the other team doing that and time my stealth and arm appropriately, always have.

I've done that very thing against Australian pro players in Halo 3 too when I was playing with mates who are NOT ACL pro players and as expected were getting spawn killed on last resort. To me having a full MLG team vs a full MLG team would mean those scenarios would be few and far between. Now think of the variety gained for spectators, literally new gametypes, new maps, new tactics and strategies. For me it would get me watching MLG at the very least and most likely playing too.



Not true, zanzibar was at its best with 4v4 flag or bomb. It's why it was so popular in Halo 2 objective. Even more popular than BTB versions by far. Same goes for last resort too.

Beyond that what about maps like turf or terminal for MLG objective. It's these sorts of things that I wanted to see in the Halo 4 MLG V1 settings. A signal that they are embracing the default sandbox but keeping their competitive take on things. For now I just see the same old MLG strip it all back and that's now going to attract a frequent player like me, yet again.
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Large asymmetric maps only work well for one sides objectives. Those end in ties most often.

I wish MLG could keep as much vanilla Halo as possible, but when the vanilla game is shit for competitive play they gotta change things around.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
xxjuicesxx said:
Zanzibar 4v4 was annoying as hell. Go for flag in base, die to camping defenders. Respawn at sea wall walk towards base for ten seconds being bored.

Because MLG is being viewed live it needs to have constant action. Think Onslaught and Amplified and less Zanzibar and Tempest. Those are like weird in between BTB and Small 4v4 maps that really dont have a good fit anywhere.

Not that Zanzibar is bad, its just not good for action 4v4-wise.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this. Those maps are like 4v4 and up where as the Onslaught and Amp are 4v4 and down.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
Zanzibar 4v4 was annoying as hell. Go for flag in base, die to camping defenders. Respawn at sea wall walk towards base for ten seconds being bored.

Because MLG is being viewed live it needs to have constant action. Think Onslaught and Amplified and less Zanzibar and Tempest. Those are like weird in between BTB and Small 4v4 maps that really dont have a good fit anywhere.

Not that Zanzibar is bad, its just not good for action 4v4-wise.
Click to expand...

I can understand your competitive comments. However not enjoying zanzibar 1 flag is making my head spin and hurt. I'm just reeling back speechless that you didn't like that game type, for me it is quintessential Halo.

Further true teamwork in objective isn't camping in the base, it's meeting them at camp froman, tower, bridge or even wall to push that line of defense further away from the base. It's also about spotting a bomb carrier or enemy entering the base far out to close their movements down. If you camp you're easy to beat with teamwork because you've literally set one point of win/fail before flag or bomb achieved. You want to battle further out so you have a chance to respawn or communicate and setup another line of scrimmage before the flag is stolen or the bomb is armed.

Tawpgun said:
Large asymmetric maps only work well for one sides objectives. Those end in ties most often.

I wish MLG could keep as much vanilla Halo as possible, but when the vanilla game is shit for competitive play they gotta change things around.
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Tashi said:
I would agree with this. Those maps are like 4v4 and up where as the Onslaught and Amp are 4v4 and down.
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I agree with the above two quotes but why not trial some change for spectators and to attract more players? If players avoid team hardcore (3), anniversary (Reach), slayer pro (4) and even MLG by comparison to default playlist numbers (2, 3 & Reach) then why not throw in say 5-25% change to the MLG line up of gametypes and maps?

If you stick by MLG 100% like the V1 settings you're never going to have that trial and error data to workout what does attract more players or spectators. After all in terms of viewing pleasure you can cut to different player perspectives, give rise to more strategy commentary (everyone loves Puckett no?), cut to different games in play or even increase the player count for larger maps so more action is going on.

Don't get me wrong I loved lockout, the pit, guardian etc (non MLG for me) but there are plenty more options than the same old symmetrical bare bones settings.
 
P

pakkit

Banned
so after that map fiasco, i was playing Infinity Slayer today and got JIP'd into Team Slayer for Harvest.

Shit was hilarious. Map still sucks for Slayer though.
 
T

The Antitype

Banned
*sigh*

JIP into game on Complex.

Sniped within half a second of spawning. Replay shows I spawned within the scoped sniper-rifle POV.

Quit.

343i has made a bad game.
 
O

Omni

Member
I found myself on Youtube listening to the Halo 2 soundtrack. Man I miss that game - or at the very least the memories of playing that game with my Dad before he passed. I'd love to go back and experience all of that again.

I always get nostalgic when I hear that awesome soundtrack.

Remake 2013 or launch title for 720, please 343i
 
T

The Antitype

Banned
randomrosso said:
I found myself on Youtube listening to the Halo 2 soundtrack. Man I miss that game - or at the very least the memories of playing that game with my Dad before he passed. I'd love to go back and experience all of that again.

I always get nostalgic when I hear that awesome soundtrack.

Remake 2013 or launch title for 720, please 343i
Click to expand...

The Steve Vai version of the Halo theme is still my favorite version.
 
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