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[Hypertrooper]

... no, that's got nothing to do with the issues of how range affects play. I'm confused as to how that is considered a solution.

Loving the ODST chatter, New Mombasa ay night is stunning, with headphones on, a quiet house and the lights off. Love it.

Yes. ODST's New Mombasa is great but at the end it feels empty. I would have enjoyed to see some side quests.

 

[BlueScrote]

Seriously though how would you guys feel about the DMR being an on map weapon rather than a spawn weapon?

Honestly I think it fits the power scale pretty well for an on-map non-power weapon. The same utility as something like the PP would have in previous games.

 

[BigShow36]

Some of youou guys have the same misguided ideas of "balance" as bad game developers do. A weapon being able to shoot straight with long range and good power is not a bad thing. You're complaining about the wrong things; the DMR is not the issue.

The real issue is that the big maps are too wide open to accomodate sprint and vehicles.
The real issue is that the aim assist is too high.
The real issue is that strafe is too slow.

If you fix those issues, everything else fixes itself. But instead you guys are chasing the DMR down this rabbit hole that just goes deeper and deeper in the wrong direction. Bloom is not the answer. Removing the DMR is not the answer. Forcing everyone to have weapons that can't shoot accurately over medium distance is not the answer. Fix the underlying issues and things start to work themselves out without making the weapons terrible.

 

[Slightly Live]

Ragnorak works really well when you remove all AA's and force every player to spawn with BR's, and switch off all ordnance and force the map to have pick up weapons. Except it's still ugly.

Basically Ragnorak works best when it's Valhalla. In another game. Remove as many of the new things from sandbox as possible and it becomes slightly playable.

 

[Overdoziz]

ODST Screenshots Batch 1:

Click here for all the screenshots. Especially the dark areas look so bad because of the compression.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Some of youou guys have the same misguided ideas of "balance" as bad game developers do. A weapon being able to shoot straight with long range and good power is not a bad thing. You're complaining about the wrong things. The DMR is not the issue.

The real issue is that the big maps are too wide open to accomodate sprint and vehicles.
The real issue is that the aim assist is too high.
The real issue is that strafe is too slow.

If you fix those issues, everything else fixes itself. But instead you guys are chasing the DMR down this rabbit hole that just goes deeper and deeper in the wrong direction. Bloom is not the answer. Removing the DMR is not the answer. Forcing everyone to have weapons that can't shoot accurately over medium distance is not the answer. Fix the underlying issues and things start to work themselves out without making the weapons terrible.

I still think my idea works pretty well. Tried it on the no sprint/no instant spawn gametype on Lockout and the DMR is a GREAT on map weapon.

 

[IHaveIce]

Seriously though how would you guys feel about the DMR being an on map weapon rather than a spawn weapon?

I played some matches with these settings, it was way better. Eeryone spawning with BR/pistol and DMR is on map. Played great.


Also I agree New Mombasa in ODST was beautiful but too boring in the end. Sidequests like Hyper said would have been awesome.

Some areas in ODST still freak me out. Always thought something creepy would be hidden there.

 

[rakka]

i havent used it as much as the dmr but the halo 4 br seems to have a huge amount of aim assist too.

and I'm all for higher movement and strafe speeds but only if global sprint is removed as well.

hunters chasing me through corridors in ODST got my heart pumping.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Thunder indeed.


Have nearly 50 screenshots extracted and uploading at the moment. I wish I had a capture card, though. There's some awful compression going on whenever you take a screenshot. It does get rid of the aliasing, though.

God what a awesome game. Seriously people, if you play with VISR mode on, stop. It shits all over the atmosphere of the game. I only use it when I get into a pitch black alley where I have no choice. The orange glow from doors, the blue lighting cast by sparking debris, the lights from still active law enforcement vehicles, street lamps, the sky glowing orange from the destruction beneath, and that Superintendent signage all get ruined by the VISR.


BRB
*puts in ODST

 

[Fracas]

If it stays a spawning weapon:

DMR should be 2-2.5x zoom, with lowered aim assist and a similar, if maybe slightly slower kill time than the BR.

If it becomes ordnance:

-3x zoom, 8 round mag, 3-4 shots to kill, lower RoF, takes skill to fire from hip, but not as difficult as sniper rifle. The mini sniper, basically.

 

[Moa]

I played some matches with these settings, it was way better. Eeryone spawning with BR/pistol and DMR is on map. Played great.


Also I agree New Mombasa in ODST was beautiful but too boring in the end. Sidequests like Hyper said would have been awesome.

Some areas in ODST still freak me out. Always thought something creepy would be hidden there.

Even thought there was no chance of it happening, I was constantly expecting the Flood to jump out on me during the night, the setting & environment was perfect.

 

[IHaveIce]

Even thought there was no chance of it happening, I was constantly expecting the Flood to jump out on me during the night, the setting & environment was perfect.

Exactly! I know it couldn't be but sometimes there were eerie sounds and I constantly checked my back if something follows me.

The whole ambience and mood in the game was amazing.

 

[Toa TAK]

I played some matches with these settings, it was way better. Eeryone spawning with BR/pistol and DMR is on map. Played great.


Also I agree New Mombasa in ODST was beautiful but too boring in the end. Sidequests like Hyper said would have been awesome.

Some areas in ODST still freak me out. Always thought something creepy would be hidden there.

Even though by the end of the game (before Dare's mission) there's nothing else, it is cool to have an open-world environment in a Halo game. But yeah, side missions would've been great.

Did we ever figure out what the glyphs were in ODST anyways? The ones on the obelisks scattered around the city with Engineers hanging around?

 

[Overdoziz]

God what a awesome game. Seriously people, if you play with VISR mode on, stop. It shits all over the atmosphere of the game. I only use it when I get into a pitch black alley where I have no choice. The orange glow from doors, the blue lighting cast by sparking debris, the lights from still active law enforcement vehicles, street lamps, the sky glowing orange from the destruction beneath, and that Superintendent signage all get ruined by the VISR.


BRB
*puts in ODST

Only just now I noticed the lightning striking the space elevator. The area with a black-out and Covenant torches that only light up as you get close is also a very nice little touch which I never paid much attention to in the past. The locked off Engineer rooms are still some of the coolest locations in the game, though. Just found out about one of them that has an open ODST pod in it with a dead Grunt right next to it. I always enjoy small things like that.

 

[User 73706]

Leave us with the BR, Carbine and Light Rifle as primary loadout semi-autos. DMR, Needle Rifle and a Promethean Pulse Rifle can all be low-quantity on-map pickups (along with shotty/Needler Shotgun or "Combiner"/buffed Scattershot and SAW/Needler/Sentinel Beam and Railgun/Concussion Rifle/Promethean Grenade Launcher as initial "ordnance"); range and scope are equivalent to what they are now, no bloom, but they all kill slower than the primary semi-auto loadout weapons, meaning that in close range, they'll lose to their loadout counterparts in most cases. Treating them like baby snipers, however, they can be used to effectively dispatch targets from longer ranges. This would also allow BTB maps to finally be open again (see Sandtrap) as opposed to claustrophobic, cover-bloated clusterfucks (see Meltdown).

I loved open BTB maps. Bring them back.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Actually that is one problem Halo 4 also has, no low/medium on map power weapons, they are all top tier weapons that drop.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Only just now I noticed the lightning striking the space elevator. The area with a black-out and Covenant torches that only light up as you get close is also a very nice little touch which I never paid much attention to in the past. The locked off Engineer rooms are still some of the coolest locations in the game, though. Just found out about one of them that has an open ODST pod in it with a dead Grunt right next to it. I always enjoy small things like that.

Honestly, just crank up the volume and listen to the ambiance for a little. Bungie nailed the atmosphere of New Mombasa at night. While I am not a huge fan of the story the game told, to me the real story is the city, the sounds, and the music. Just exploring, alone at night, seeing the destruction, knowing that a battle had been waged and mostly lost. Pair that with the terrific sound design and great music, to me that IS the story of ODST.

 

[JB1981]

Ragnorak works really well when you remove all AA's and force every player to spawn with BR's, and switch off all ordnance and force the map to have pick up weapons. Except it's still ugly.

Basically Ragnorak works best when it's Valhalla. In another game. Remove as many of the new things from sandbox as possible and it becomes slightly playable.

So Halo 3 with Reach netcode

 

[CyReN]

halo - http://www.twitch.tv/arenagamingleague

 

[Orochinagis]

I dont know if they can make the DMR lose damage according to the distance like More distance = less Damage and more recoil.

 

[enzo_gt]

Was this posted?

Bungie gets a letter from a gamer that thinks they made Halo 4.

 

[rakka]

that would make the dmr less predictable, why not just add bloom then

 

[Tha Robbertster]

With all this talk of the horror aspects of ODST, I was trying to come up with a scenario where you could be fighting flood, as an ODST. I thought that a High Charity setting, just after Halo 2 ends could be pretty awesome. The game would start with In Amber clad crashing somewhere in High Charity. You'd be fighting Brutes and their allies, Elites and co and flood. The story would revolve around you and your squad trying to escape High Charity somehow.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Seriously though how would you guys feel about the DMR being an on map weapon rather than a spawn weapon?

It's what people have been fighting for I think. I'd like to at least try something like this:

-BR starts and made into a 4sk.
-DMR changed to be a map pickup, less auto aim/magnetism, have a static reticle, 4sk, 12 bullet clip with one extra mag and the reticle to look like this:

One thing that I think has a huge impact on the way a weapon feels as your shoot it is the aiming reticle. Look at the H3 SpLaser from its Beta version to final release and how that changed. They changed how easy it was to get infantry kills by changing that inner circle when you scope in and adjusting its traits slightly. Little tweaks like that is how you balance a powerful weapon. Subconscious or not, the reticle surely plays a large role in the feedback of a weapon, so adjusting similar things with the DMR may want to be considered.

Another example is the DMR in Reach. I find that it feels more difficult in MLG to land consistent 5 shots and that it feels much more skill-based with a static reticle, even thought it should technically be easier with less randomness from bloom, right? This is something worth looking into IMO.

 

[Crucio]

Everyone bitching about the dmr should just use the dmr. The game plays well when all players are using it.

Thats the problem. The DMR is so overpowered it reduces the game's variety in gameplay. It is way too difficult to outgun someone with a DMR, unless you have one yourself.
I don't want to be forced into a single weapon while there are so many other cool choices. Its just wrong and it has truly ruined some games for me.

The DMR should have been nerfed on the first update.

 

[Rev3rb]

Was this posted?

Bungie gets a letter from a gamer that thinks they made Halo 4.

Yep

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

Seriously though how would you guys feel about the DMR being an on map weapon rather than a spawn weapon?

They'd have to buff the BR if they were to do that.

 

[Overdoziz]

With all this talk of the horror aspects of ODST, I was trying to come up with a scenario where you could be fighting flood, as an ODST. I thought that a High Charity setting, just after Halo 2 ends could be pretty awesome. The game would start with In Amber clad crashing somewhere in High Charity. You'd be fighting Brutes and their allies, Elites and co and flood. The story would revolve around you and your squad trying to escape High Charity somehow.

This needs to happen so badly.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

With all this talk of the horror aspects of ODST, I was trying to come up with a scenario where you could be fighting flood, as an ODST. I thought that a High Charity setting, just after Halo 2 ends could be pretty awesome. The game would start with In Amber clad crashing somewhere in High Charity. You'd be fighting Brutes and their allies, Elites and co and flood. The story would revolve around you and your squad trying to escape High Charity somehow.

RIP ODST's. 343 combined them with S-III's to make S-IV's.

If it stays a spawning weapon:

DMR should be 2-2.5x zoom, with lowered aim assist and a similar, if maybe slightly slower kill time than the BR.

If it becomes ordnance:

-3x zoom, 8 round mag, 3-4 shots to kill, lower RoF, takes skill to fire from hip, but not as difficult as sniper rifle. The mini sniper, basically.

Individual weapon modifiers would do wonders for this franchise.

 

[User 73706]

My idea for the ODSTs fighting flood was by having it take place in New Mombasa right after the flood-infected carrier jumps to Earth, so you'd basically be cleaning house with Lord Hood until Chief got back. They could always use it as a way to give us a preview of the new flood combat mechanics in Halo 5, too.

 

[FyreWulff]

With all this talk of the horror aspects of ODST, I was trying to come up with a scenario where you could be fighting flood, as an ODST. I thought that a High Charity setting, just after Halo 2 ends could be pretty awesome. The game would start with In Amber clad crashing somewhere in High Charity. You'd be fighting Brutes and their allies, Elites and co and flood. The story would revolve around you and your squad trying to escape High Charity somehow.

???

 

[Overdoziz]

???

He said High Charity, not an anus.

 

[User 73706]

He said High Charity, not an anus.

The climax of the game is trying to get a giant UNSC warhead into the reactor room of High Charity through a butt-porta, but it gets stuck halfway through because the shaft is so thick. After pounding away trying to get it in, you and your squad go on a search for lube.

 

[Moa]

He said High Charity, not an anus.

 

[gAg CruSh3r]

ODST Screenshots Batch 1:



Click here for all the screenshots. Especially the dark areas look so bad because of the compression.

All of those screenshots makes me want to play Halo3 ODST :/...

 

[orznge]

It's what people have been fighting for I think. I'd like to at least try something like this:

-BR starts and made into a 4sk.
-DMR changed to be a map pickup, less auto aim/magnetism, have a static reticle, 4sk, 12 bullet clip with one extra mag and the reticle to look like this:

One thing that I think has a huge impact on the way a weapon feels as your shoot it is the aiming reticle. Look at the H3 SpLaser from its Beta version to final release and how that changed. They changed how easy it was to get infantry kills by changing that inner circle when you scope in and adjusting its traits slightly. Little tweaks like that is how you balance a powerful weapon. Subconscious or not, the reticle surely plays a large role in the feedback of a weapon, so adjusting similar things with the DMR may want to be considered.

Another example is the DMR in Reach. I find that it feels more difficult in MLG to land consistent 5 shots and that it feels much more skill-based with a static reticle, even thought it should technically be easier with less randomness from bloom, right? This is something worth looking into IMO.

this but also make player movement not a nightmare

 

[The Librarian]

ODST's the second best Halo campaign. I love it. Only behind Halo 3.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

ODST 2 Please.

 

[Kuroyume]

It ruins a lot of maps, though. Did you play the Reach Headlong variant? Might as well never leave the defensive building unless you are out of DMR ammo. Sure might be cool to get a Sniper or Rocket Launcher, but you are capable of hitting guys with relative ease from the top platform by the rocket spawn in red base all the way to the overshield spawn and courtyard area. I'm sure it would've made Hemorrhage less hectic, among others. AA's also were stupid as hell on there too, jetpack primarily. I just would like a precisive 2x scoped rifle that doesn't have awful spread or bloom, and a drop in aim-assist for longer distances. Ship it.

It's not suitable for 8v8, either. What, so more players can sit atop the rooftops and rain bullets on the opposing "bases"? It's just a bad map that does not suit any good gametypes. If it's good for just SWAT, Living Dead/Flood, and FFA slayer, it shouldn't be placed in any team based playlists. We were told in the IGN video by a 343 employee (Franklin?) that it was gonna be really good for Oddball - I don't think so! This game shipped with too many Slayer maps in mind, a bit unfortunate since it felt the same for Bungie's maps in Halo 3 and Reach.

I think I've played maybe 2-3 games of Headlong in Reach. Lost interest in the game when the map pack finally came out. Been meaning to go back to check it out though.

To be honest it has never felt like a problem to me. Usually I'm the one killing people with it. Not suggesting that YOU stink with it (although other GAF members maybe do) but from my experience I never felt it was an abusable weapon. And if I ever had a problem moving around in Reach or 3 it wasn't because of the DMR, BR, or Sniper but rather the vehicles.

I doubt it would've made a huge difference on most of Reach's 4v4 maps (Powerhouse maybe), but the DMR is definitely a problem on BTB maps in both Reach and Halo 4. And no, I'm not saying that because I'm bad or anything, which you always use as an argument. It's awful because it limits movement extremely and just makes for relatively boring long range firefights.

The difference between how Valhalla and Raganrok play is probably the perfect example of the effect of the DMR (With better netcode combined with it) on maps that have wide open areas with long lines of sight. In Halo 3, with an average connection, the range at which you can hit people consistently is extremely short. Heck, even at close to medium range the Halo 3 BR fails to register half the time. At a relatively short range of, say, Laser spawn to the the Pelican you can hit probably less than half your shots. That's how limited your ability to ping people from a distance is in Halo 3. If you shoot the same distance on Ragnarok you can consistently hit your times. Sure, you'l miss a couple here and then, but overall it's much easier to hit people from that distance than it is in Halo 3.

So what does this do in terms of how BTB plays on most of its maps? It greatly discourages going out into even slightly open areas. Sure, in both Halo 3 and Halo 4 people sit at the top middle of Valhalla, but what happens when that occurs plays out entirely differently. Where in Halo 3 you can flank people who are at the top middle without too much trouble, in Halo 4 you will get shot to pieces once you cross a strip of open field even if it's close your base. I've been pinged from top middle all the way to the waterfall base's Mantis spawn, it's that ridiculous. There is no way that something like that could happen in Halo 3. Matches on Ragnarok end up in a bunch of people hiding behind a rock, pinging other people hiding behind a rock a mile away until the score limit is reached. You can see a similar situation on Complex where because of the combination of the map layout and the DMR's range and accuracy people tend to hide in or on top of the main structures and take pot-shots at their opponents.

Keep in mind that I have no problem with very accurate weapons, the Halo 3 BR was absolutely shit in that regard. What does bother is the extreme range that the DMR can be used effectively at. Range which you don't need on 4v4 maps and which negatively affects gameplay on 8v8 maps.

As far as I can see there's two options that 343 has to solve this issue: 1) Design your maps around the DMR's range limiting it effectiveness or 2) Reduce the range of the DMR. Option one would require all BTB maps to be much more focuses on close and medium range, rather than long range. I think this is a viable option, but it would require a lot of effort and thought put into development of the maps. Option 2 would be a more obvious choice, but if they choose the pick this option I don't think they should add bloom or spread or whatever. I think reducing the scope zoom, the auto-aim distance and the bullet magnetism distance would go a long way in reducing the negative impact of the DMR. It can also be communicated easier to the player with the reticule staying blue even when it's on an opponent meaning that the game isn't assisting you.

I know your post was more about the DMR on small maps, which I don't think is an issue either, but I still wanted to say something about the entire DMR issue which has been shrugged off by several people on here as a non-issue. Personally I think it's one of the main issues of Reach and Halo 4 BTB right alongside the vehicles.

The whole point of DMR is just that. It's a long range weapon. Once you begin tweaking the range what will it be other than a nerfed BR? It kind of defeats the purpose of the weapon, and I like the way it feels. I like those single shots.

I can't argue against anything you have to say about it in 4 since I haven't touched that game yet but you wouldn't have any combat "in the open" on Valhalla anyway because it was one of the most abusable camping maps ever. Once a team took the middle it cut the map in half and it would play out on one side of the map or other. It wasn't exactly the super interesting full of variety filled gameplay mode you make it out to be. Definitely not on that map. And none of the interesting on foot combat was present in the other BTB maps either since it was Warthog/Tank/Banshee party time all the time in H3 BTB. Wasn't any different in Reach either.

BTB has had its own problems for several games now. Many of us were very critical of it in 3 before the AAs and the DMR were introduced. Vehicles. Equipment. Weapons spawns. Player spawning. Just bad maps in general. I believe using the DMR as a scapegoat for why BTB sucked in Reach or H4 (I guess) is not the right way to go about criticizing that mode because you could take the DMR out of Reach and BTB is still going to stink.

 

[TheOddOne]

You know what could potentially be good? ODST Ops. Stop laughing for a moment, hear me out for a second. Imagine narrative filled, open world based, weekly episodes. Every week there will be one new huge location (City based, alien world), with missions scattered around you can do at your leisure (Which trigger more action oriented sections) and some small side mission (Codecs, side stories). Base the mission structure and enemy placement like ODST and build from that. Now, you can laugh again.

 

[Moa]

You know what could potentially be good? ODST Ops. Stop laughing for a moment, hear me out for a second. Imagine narrative filled, open world based, weekly episodes. Every week there will be one new huge location (City based, alien world), with missions scattered around you can do at your leisure (Which trigger more action oriented sections) and some small side mission (Codecs, side stories) . Base the mission structure and enemy placement like ODST and build from that. Now, you can laugh again.

I can see it now.

ODSTs, pressing buttons.

 

[orznge]

is there any FPS out there right now where I can play something similar to BTB

 

[Tha Robbertster]

You know what could potentially be good? ODST Ops. Stop laughing for a moment, hear me out for a second. Imagine narrative filled, open world based, weekly episodes. Every week there will be one new huge location (City based, alien world), with missions scattered around you can do at your leisure (Which trigger more action oriented sections) and some small side mission (Codecs, side stories) . Base the mission structure and enemy placement like ODST and build from that. Now, you can laugh again.

I suggested something similar for a second season of SpOps some time ago. Only difference was that I'd keep it to one hub world. I'd love to see something like that.

 

[wwm0nkey]

is there any FPS out there right now where I can play something similar to BTB

Battlefield 3, Section 8 Prejudice....Planetside 2? (BTB with 2000 people)

 

[ElzarTheBam]

ODST's the second best Halo campaign. I love it. Only behind Halo 3.

It was/is a striking game.

I went to Bungie.net to look at some pics, the above one was done by Ghal. Brought a smile to my face.

 

[DeadNames]

I freaking loved Halo 3/ODST. Both are great games.

Spoiler

Why couldn't Halo 4 be Halo 4 and not Reach 2 :'(

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I freaking loved Halo 3/ODST. Both are great games.

Spoiler

Why couldn't Halo 4 be Halo 4 and not Reach 2 :'(

they're saving that for Halo 5. Twice the money-sucking action!

 

[GhaleonEB]

It was/is a striking game.

I went to Bungie.net to look at some pics, the above one was done by Ghal. Brought a smile to my face.

I saw that pic and was thinking, hey I think I took that...<3

Memories. I liked much of ODST at the time, but in hindsight it was better than I gave it credit for. Still fizzles out a bit at the end, but it was a pretty remarkable game. If I had to pick my favorite Halo moments in the series, the nighttime streets of New Mombassa would be very high on the list.

Exploration and Halo go together so well. Among my disappointments with Halo 4 is the lack of that feeling (especially after the art and promises of lots of exploration).

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Exploration and Halo go together so well. Among my disappointments with Halo 4 is the lack of that feeling (especially after the art and promises of lots of exploration).

I look at this concept art and my brain registers pure exploration.

No Covenant to be seen, just beautiful open landscapes. The way the level Requiem started had me so pumped. It set up the best exploration scenario possible. You've crashed, you are alone, and you are on a new world. You can explore the immediate wreckage area and find some hidden goodies, good sign! You follow a narrow path, the music begins to kick in, a blinding light comes through the end of the narrow passage. As you come over the crest, the music hits it's peak and you are presented with an astonishing view of Forerunner architecture. It floats, and moves dizzily into the clouds above. You find a Warthog; now it is time to really explore. You drive through some more narrow passages, hoping that the next area opens up to an expansive view with a wonderful new world to fully explore. You hit another crest, here we go! There are Covenant scattered throughout the small valley ahead, and they have already fortified the area.

ugh...

 

[Fracas]

That's the price of the graphics.

IMO it's not worth it. At least not for this hardware.

Yo dont be hating Halo 4's campaign.

The story and how it was told was very well done, but the encounters and level design are subpar.