Seems like placement matches could be easily faked. Purposely play poorly in them so you start off low ranked and then stomp on lesser players. No better than a really good player starting at 1 or an asshole purposely deranking. Nobody here has a solution better than actively policing griefers. I'm indifferent to visible ranks - I'll play a fun game whether or not they exist, whether or not griefers exist. But either way the game should have good skill-based matchmaking and constant policing of asshole players.
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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo
- Thread starter Overdoziz
- Start date
Seems like placement matches could be easily faked. Purposely play poorly in them so you start off low ranked and then stomp on lesser players. No better than a really good player starting at 1 or an asshole purposely deranking. Nobody here has a solution better than actively policing griefers. I'm indifferent to visible ranks - I'll play a fun game whether or not they exist, whether or not griefers exist. But either way the game should have good skill-based matchmaking and constant policing of asshole players.
Yes, if you play poorly on purpose at the beginning you will play against lesser skilled players. But remember, the honest people will skip past them all. Compare this to the H3 system where everyone starts off playing against lesser skilled players for many, many games.
You also have to think about why people derank. I guarantee you a vast majority of derankers deranked to boost their teammates. The rest would just be genuine assholes who are deranking for god-knows-what. If it's impossible to boost teammates like with a team rating system, bam, you just got rid of most of the derankers. As for the remaining griefers, I suppose you could figure out ways of policing them. But at that point they are probably so few so it really isn't a problem at all.
A team ELO system is better than the H3 system in nearly every way. It is the best video game ranking system out of them all.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
raising cattle, nbd
That was me the whole time.
It always catches me by surprise when I see a WWE reference out of WrestleGAF.
Orochinagis
Member
dun duun duuuuuuuuun!11q!1
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Hop on Halo 4 nerds.
Zoso Achilles
Member
Call it Infinity Big Team Slayer.
Snipedown interview from AGL - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8sDnOW0VzHA
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
lol Definitely very similar, and speaking of things that remind us of Halo:
Duji I hope you stay a Junior forever so you can always be my favorite <3
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
User 73706
Banned
I go in manually and make all my desktop icons minimalist to clean things up a bit and made a new logo for XBC so I thought I'd upload it for you guys in case anybody wanted it.
.ICO file, required for desktop applications
.ICO file, required for desktop applications
Steelyuhas
Member
Murdered by his own farm animals.
He thought this place had become too toxic.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
So I've been on CoD for what felt like 12 hours and just hopped on Halo 4 cause I was finally bored of CoD, and Halo is damn near unplayable. My first game had more grenade spam than the Headquarters game of CoD I had just played, and the game felt very unrefined. I was noticing pop ins all over the place and the FPS felt really low.
It may have been at 30 as usual, but this is the first time I have come from CoD to Halo and the 30 FPS has been incredibly off putting.
Edit: Halo should totally go 45-60FPS next gen.
It may have been at 30 as usual, but this is the first time I have come from CoD to Halo and the 30 FPS has been incredibly off putting.
Edit: Halo should totally go 45-60FPS next gen.
Holy shit that is awesome.
The next TU needs to remove complex from all 4v4 playlists and move it to BTB. The map is too large for 4v4 and becomes a DMR rooftop fest or a boltshot fest at the larger central building.
Really do not like any of the maps on disc except Haven. We need more of dat symmetrical goodness.
Really do not like any of the maps on disc except Haven. We need more of dat symmetrical goodness.
You don't need the TU to do that lol
Moa
Member
While I agree that 60 fps multiplayer is amazing, I think their priority needs to be on making sure no features like campaign theater/scoring and other 'legacy' features are cut. There are other things like the low frame rates during any splitscreen play, etc.
Frankie understands this and now that they have their maiden game shipped, they'll be much better for the next go around.
Plus we don't know how capable the 'nextbox' is. But the fact 343 is an MS subsidiary means they probably got first cracked at the developer kits and should be able to have one of the better looking/playing games next gen either at launch or the year after.
I know. I was trying to say that this TU coming should also include this. No sleep isn't good for typing.
That's why I was thinking 45 if it's possible. If not then it shouldn't be a problem as long as it stays at 30 all the time. You get so many frame dips currently, and splitscreen is a nightmare. It was the same with Reach as well. I wouldn't want to see any features be cut for higher FPS though. We've had enough cut features already and I'd rather we got those back.
A lot of the maps could work if it weren't for AA's or global ordnance or the range of the DMR. Think how much better adrift would be if people didn't have camo to camp or be able to call down power weapons without actively leaving the map.
I know a lot of people hated Reach maps but imagine how they'd play without armor abilities or the DMR. Powerhouse, reflection, countdown, some forge maps like asylum, would be amazing were they to have battle rifle starts.
I think the problem with adrift is the unnecessary clutter and the fact each section is so closed off that it promotes defensive gameplay. Why go out of your base area when you can just sit and wait and guard the entrances or watch the man cannons. Remember that tourney video someone posted of two pro teams just waiting around and no one was getting kills?
Yeah didn't it end 0-0? I think both teams were sitting at spawn cause they had literally no reason to move about the map and at one point one of them went crouch walking which was the highlight of the match I believe. That was probably the best example of why random ordnance shouldn't be in Halo. It doesn't promote movement and can't be truly controlled like a placed weapon can. One of the biggest gripes people had with Reach was randomness. Bloom was random and took skill out of the equation. Not sure why 343 thought it would be better to add this randomness to weapon spawns as well. They say it is to help newer players and to give them more of a chance of getting a power weapon but that's a load of crap to be honest.
Halo 3 would have died within months if newer players needed this feature. While it takes a lot of skill to be able to control a weapon spawn and time it, it only takes memory to learn a weapons location and how to get there. I don't see how removing the need to remember helps new players. All it does is confuse them more, as they don't know where anything is and can't really learn how to get it either. They have to grab it on the fly or hope the ordnance will drop near them.
Not sure what 343 were trying to do with ordnance to be honest.
No it wouldn't have made any difference. Reflection and Countdown are basically tight corridor maps where the DMR has no distinct advantage. Getting shot by someone with a DMR? Turn a corner and get behind one of the many walls or pillars. The complaining about the DMR on here has gotten comical. It would be like someone complaining about the shotgun or brute mauler on Sandtrap.
Barrow Roll
Member
I want to see something like this from 343 about Halo 4.
Halo 4 looks great and excels in certain areas, but I feel like Reach is a consistently better looking game. Fewer ugly spots, more polished overall. Can't wait to see what Bungie's artists can do with better tech and a more sci-fi setting.
Halo 4 looks great and excels in certain areas, but I feel like Reach is a consistently better looking game. Fewer ugly spots, more polished overall. Can't wait to see what Bungie's artists can do with better tech and a more sci-fi setting.
343 or MS really wanted to push the graphics to show what was left of the 360. Honestly I think the cost of these graphics (did they say it was native 720p?) was way too high in terms of how the game runs and what was removed. Hopefully 343 spread the love with Halo 5 instead of focusing it on one area.
AND they did it with theatre. :O
This was in the related videos, also pretty cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=RR8UAa1mZhM&list=PL96EB8EEBE8BD1B23&NR=1
Didn't know they built an actual elite costume for that commerical.
It ruins a lot of maps, though. Did you play the Reach Headlong variant? Might as well never leave the defensive building unless you are out of DMR ammo. Sure might be cool to get a Sniper or Rocket Launcher, but you are capable of hitting guys with relative ease from the top platform by the rocket spawn in red base all the way to the overshield spawn and courtyard area. I'm sure it would've made Hemorrhage less hectic, among others. AA's also were stupid as hell on there too, jetpack primarily. I just would like a precisive 2x scoped rifle that doesn't have awful spread or bloom, and a drop in aim-assist for longer distances. Ship it.
It's not suitable for 8v8, either. What, so more players can sit atop the rooftops and rain bullets on the opposing "bases"? It's just a bad map that does not suit any good gametypes. If it's good for just SWAT, Living Dead/Flood, and FFA slayer, it shouldn't be placed in any team based playlists. We were told in the IGN video by a 343 employee (Franklin?) that it was gonna be really good for Oddball - I don't think so! This game shipped with too many Slayer maps in mind, a bit unfortunate since it felt the same for Bungie's maps in Halo 3 and Reach.
Barrow Roll
Member
That was very cool, hadn't seen that before, but deserves to be seen in HD.
Excellent research, cat man.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Fixed.
What are you talking about? On reflection, you could ping someone across the middle if you were on top, same goes for the hallways. And countdown was basically the same. Sure people could run away, it doesn't change the fact you had a starting weapon which could pretty much head shot someone anytime you saw them.
Couple in the fact you had ridiculous grenade spam and halo Reach combat was severely limited. Either you got pinged from a distance or you had 2-3 grenades thrown in every time you weren't in the open.
I don't know why you can't see having a weapon that can pretty much shoot cross any map is bad.
HiredN00bs
Member
I'm having a blast playing Halo 2 and going for the achievements, except for maybe that Rainman one (it's just very tedious because there are many default gametypes in Halo 2 on Windows, more than the console version). I finished all the multiplayer ones last night, and I think this will actually be my first time finishing Halo 2 Legendary Solo, as well as getting the Scarab gun. I'm excited.
I also want to say that I think it's bullshit that Microsoft is closing this down, unless they're closing support for all Games for Windows LIVE games. We pay subscription fees for peer-to-peer multiplayer on the Xbox, and legacy game support is something that Halo fans enjoy. There were thousands of people that played Halo 2 on their Xbox, and many of them were left behind almost three years ago because they didn't have an Xbox 360. Millions of players lost access to their DLC for which they paid good money. They released Halo 2 on GFY...I mean GFWL, and made it so damn exclusive that only XBL Gold subscribers with a powerful Windows Vista system could play it, at a time when popular opinion was that Windows Vista was shit. They never made it available for download, even off the GFWL marketplace. It's a resource hog, like Vista, so even if you meet sysreq it runs like shit. Graphics options are practically non-existent (5 resolutions, 3 detail settings).
Way to release a shoddy product and then tell the people who actually bought into all of your shit that you're shutting it down. Fucking disgraceful Microsoft, and I know it's not the first time, because I bought my wife the Kin. Yeah.
Fuck you.
Oh, and here's a link to a petition to keep Halo 2 PC online in some capacity.
https://www.change.org/petitions/343-industries-keep-halo-2-pc-online
I also want to say that I think it's bullshit that Microsoft is closing this down, unless they're closing support for all Games for Windows LIVE games. We pay subscription fees for peer-to-peer multiplayer on the Xbox, and legacy game support is something that Halo fans enjoy. There were thousands of people that played Halo 2 on their Xbox, and many of them were left behind almost three years ago because they didn't have an Xbox 360. Millions of players lost access to their DLC for which they paid good money. They released Halo 2 on GFY...I mean GFWL, and made it so damn exclusive that only XBL Gold subscribers with a powerful Windows Vista system could play it, at a time when popular opinion was that Windows Vista was shit. They never made it available for download, even off the GFWL marketplace. It's a resource hog, like Vista, so even if you meet sysreq it runs like shit. Graphics options are practically non-existent (5 resolutions, 3 detail settings).
Way to release a shoddy product and then tell the people who actually bought into all of your shit that you're shutting it down. Fucking disgraceful Microsoft, and I know it's not the first time, because I bought my wife the Kin. Yeah.
Fuck you.
Oh, and here's a link to a petition to keep Halo 2 PC online in some capacity.
https://www.change.org/petitions/343-industries-keep-halo-2-pc-online
StalkerUKCG
Banned
How do you get in?
Yeah, I know how you feel. The way Halo 2: PC has been supported is absolutely appalling.
I signed the petition when it was at ~200 or so signatures, but I doubt it'll change anything. We'll get maybe one or two lines of PR crap from 343i on the 15th saying how much they are thankful for the community and sorry for H2 closing down and then we'll never hear another word about it again.
Valid point.
It's an open beta
I doubt it would've made a huge difference on most of Reach's 4v4 maps (Powerhouse maybe), but the DMR is definitely a problem on BTB maps in both Reach and Halo 4. And no, I'm not saying that because I'm bad or anything, which you always use as an argument. It's awful because it limits movement extremely and just makes for relatively boring long range firefights.
The difference between how Valhalla and Raganrok play is probably the perfect example of the effect of the DMR (With better netcode combined with it) on maps that have wide open areas with long lines of sight. In Halo 3, with an average connection, the range at which you can hit people consistently is extremely short. Heck, even at close to medium range the Halo 3 BR fails to register half the time. At a relatively short range of, say, Laser spawn to the the Pelican you can hit probably less than half your shots. That's how limited your ability to ping people from a distance is in Halo 3. If you shoot the same distance on Ragnarok you can consistently hit your times. Sure, you'l miss a couple here and then, but overall it's much easier to hit people from that distance than it is in Halo 3.
So what does this do in terms of how BTB plays on most of its maps? It greatly discourages going out into even slightly open areas. Sure, in both Halo 3 and Halo 4 people sit at the top middle of Valhalla, but what happens when that occurs plays out entirely differently. Where in Halo 3 you can flank people who are at the top middle without too much trouble, in Halo 4 you will get shot to pieces once you cross a strip of open field even if it's close your base. I've been pinged from top middle all the way to the waterfall base's Mantis spawn, it's that ridiculous. There is no way that something like that could happen in Halo 3. Matches on Ragnarok end up in a bunch of people hiding behind a rock, pinging other people hiding behind a rock a mile away until the score limit is reached. You can see a similar situation on Complex where because of the combination of the map layout and the DMR's range and accuracy people tend to hide in or on top of the main structures and take pot-shots at their opponents.
Keep in mind that I have no problem with very accurate weapons, the Halo 3 BR was absolutely shit in that regard. What does bother is the extreme range that the DMR can be used effectively at. Range which you don't need on 4v4 maps and which negatively affects gameplay on 8v8 maps.
As far as I can see there's two options that 343 has to solve this issue: 1) Design your maps around the DMR's range limiting it effectiveness or 2) Reduce the range of the DMR. Option one would require all BTB maps to be much more focuses on close and medium range, rather than long range. I think this is a viable option, but it would require a lot of effort and thought put into development of the maps. Option 2 would be a more obvious choice, but if they choose the pick this option I don't think they should add bloom or spread or whatever. I think reducing the scope zoom, the auto-aim distance and the bullet magnetism distance would go a long way in reducing the negative impact of the DMR. It can also be communicated easier to the player with the reticule staying blue even when it's on an opponent meaning that the game isn't assisting you.
I know your post was more about the DMR on small maps, which I don't think is an issue either, but I still wanted to say something about the entire DMR issue which has been shrugged off by several people on here as a non-issue. Personally I think it's one of the main issues of Reach and Halo 4 BTB right alongside the vehicles.
Good post, and I have to agree.
I was never a huge BTB fan, but when I did play it, the differences between Halo 3 and Halo 4/Reach are massive, as you say exemplified in Ragnarok. The range is a debilitating factor in Halo's sandbox that encourages little map movement (which is already being discouraged by other changes, also). The lack of de-scoping is also a massive problem in this regard; in Halo 3 I could knock a guy out of scope which prevented him from lethally targeting me at great distances, something that's no longer possible.
I was never a huge BTB fan, but when I did play it, the differences between Halo 3 and Halo 4/Reach are massive, as you say exemplified in Ragnarok. The range is a debilitating factor in Halo's sandbox that encourages little map movement (which is already being discouraged by other changes, also). The lack of de-scoping is also a massive problem in this regard; in Halo 3 I could knock a guy out of scope which prevented him from lethally targeting me at great distances, something that's no longer possible.
How is that a valid point? Reflection is an almost identical remake of ivory tower from halo 2. That map played fine when people had battle rifles etc. It's the AA's and DMR that killed the map in Reach.
Also, there are plenty of maps that have tight corridors or easy exits in Halo:CE, 2 and 3, so the point is moot for countdown.
The only thing that held countdown back was DMR, AA's and poor weapon placements. Entire matches were people camping the elevator lifts and pinging people who came from the doorways etc.
I love the DMR precisely because of how poor a weapon choice it is to give as a starting weapon in an FPS. There's a reason it's the weapon of choice in Halo 4 as well. You have a mini sniper that basically allows you to sit in one spot and basically take down any attacker in front of you, almost anywhere in the map. Remove the DMR and suddenly those people that just stand around and pinging from a distance actually have to move around the map to get kills.
Tell me Hemorrhage would play the same in reach if people only had a BR. The whole map was basically people sitting at bases or crawling around the sides because the middle became no-man's land as people would just ping you from a huge distance if you wandered into the open.
The Henery
Member
Yes. I think the argument was put to bed when even cursed lemon, somebody who's rallied since Halo 2 for a single shot, useful utility weapon, lamented the DMR's effect on Halo's gameplay. Kuroyume claims if you don't like it you're bad. Halo 4's iteration of the DMR is unarguably the easiest utility weapon to use in Halo multiplayer history. It's like a point and click game. You don't have to lead your shots or manage bloom. It beats Halo 2's BR in terms of ease of use because, while they both had pathetically high amounts of magnetism, the DMR has a 3x scope so you can sit from miles away picking off players who dared to have the temerity to actually move on the map.
Saying you're a bad player If you don't like the DMR is a nonsense. Good players have adapted to the DMR in Halo. Good players now know better than to go to the centre of Ragnorok or for Blue flag on Complex. Instead they stick to the edges of the basin or behind a rock and ping and retreat. Boring, yawn, zzzzzzzzz turn off Xbox.
The DMR has wrecked BTB gameplay. As many here suggest, the only way for BTB and the DMR to be compatible is if the DMR's scope is reduced to 2x and reduce the aim assist/bullet magnetism.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Predicted this shit years ago.