Support NeoGAF

[PNut]

Entire Panel

Good watch. Looking forward to every thing discussed except the new mappack.

 

[Gui_PT]

having a top level forger on staff would be greatly beneficial to future projects. I can think of one forger (who is also a game developer) in particular who would be a godly candidate for that position. In fact he would be perfection for the position.

Aw I really appreciate the kind words

<3

 

[Tawpgun]

Outcast (the desert map) needs to get the mantis removed. There's a neutral wraith and mantis on the map so I hopped in the mantis and I had a teammate snag the wraith. It was a rompfest. We were dominating them so bad I ran the mantis off the map, killing myself.

Though with some more competent players it probably wouldn't have been too bad. No one wanted to board me. The map seems more infantry friendly anyway.

Spoiler

just like all of infinity btb

 

[Twilight Gap]

I interact with a good number of top forgers and none of them were aware of Forge Island prior to the panel. They obviously do listen to feedback (i was one of the vocal supporters of flat spaces) but having a top level forger on staff would be greatly beneficial to future projects. I can think of one forger (who is also a game developer) in particular who would be a godly candidate for that position. In fact he would be perfection for the position.

LOL I wonder who you could be referring to

I don't remember, 'twas some dude. I might have to think about it again later.

Outcast (the desert map) needs to get the mantis removed. There's a neutral wraith and mantis on the map so I hopped in the mantis and I had a teammate snag the wraith. It was a rompfest. We were dominating them so bad I ran the mantis off the map, killing myself.

Though with some more competent players it probably wouldn't have been too bad. No one wanted to board me. The map seems more infantry friendly anyway.

Spoiler

just like all of infinity btb

To be honest, I'm really not a fan of the Mantis on any of the maps it's on. It's a cool vehicle but I'm not feeling its locations. It's made Ragnarok unplayable for me (among other things like all the sniper rifles).

 

[Twilight Gap]

double post :/

 

[DeadNames]

Mantis on Complex.

BELI343

 

[Ominym]

Well shit.

Spoiler

I miss the simpler days where the Flood were just some goofy organic life form, and the Forerunners were mysterious and cool

Silentium spoilers:

Spoiler

I honestly feel that the revelation about the origins of the flood is jumping the shark-worthy. I mean come on.

 

[Madness]

To be honest, I'm really not a fan of the Mantis on any of the maps it's on. It's a cool vehicle but I'm not feeling its locations. It's made Ragnarok unplayable for me (among other things like all the sniper rifles).

Because it doesn't fit in with classic Halo gameplay. ALMOST all vehicles in the games prior emphasized speed and/or transport as it's primary functions and then firepower. Whether it was the warthog, ghost, revenant, hornet, falcon, brute chopper, banshee, heck even the scorpion. You picked a brute chopper because it gave you an advantage over going on foot. You could traverse the map in 1/10th the time, use it to get to weapons, a battle. It's firepower wasn't overpowering but enough that a skilled user could make a chopper quite a threat.

The mantis is the antithesis of every vehicle. It doesn't have precision firepower like a tank, doesn't have the speed of a ghost, doesn't have the transport capabilities of a warthog.

It moves slowly, it looks awkward, and it's firepower is the definition of spray and pray with its random firing of multiple rockets and chain gun spread. It requires little skill to use, outside of maybe the melee stomp which has a ridiculous splash radius.

It's a camp vehicle acting as a damage sponge. You could destroy 2-3 tanks with shots in the time it'll take you to destroy a mantis. And so it goes back to what Halo gameplay is like, especially BTB. Honestly ask yourselves, how often does a mantis cross the halfway point in any map it's on, Ragnarok, Valhalla etc.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Because it doesn't fit in with classic Halo gameplay. ALMOST all vehicles in the games prior emphasized speed and/or transport as it's primary functions and then firepower. Whether it was the warthog, ghost, revenant, hornet, falcon, brute chopper, banshee, heck even then scorpion. You picked a brute chopper because it gave you an advantage over going on foot. You could traverse the map in 1/10th the time, use it to get to weapons, a battle.

The mantis is the antithesis of every vehicle. It doesn't have precision firepower like a tank, doesn't have the speed of a ghost, doesn't have the transport capabilities of a warthog.

It moves slowly, it looks awkward, and it's firepower is the definition of spray and pray with its random firing of multiple rockets and chain gun spread.

It's a camp vehicle acting as a damage sponge. You could destroy 2-3 tanks with shots in the time it'll take you to destroy a mantis. And so it goes back to what Halo gameplay is like, especially BTB. Honestly ask yourselves, how often does a mantis cross the halfway point in any map it's on, Ragnarok, Valhalla etc.

Plus, you can't flip it, or do anything with it that you can to other vehicles.

 

[Conor 419]

Silentium spoilers:

Spoiler

I honestly feel that the revelation about the origins of the flood is jumping the shark-worthy. I mean come on.

Spoiler

It just makes me question where 343i are going with the future installments. The origin story they have provided the Flood/Precursors is a fairly confusing one. They intended humanity to take the mantle, but out of revenge for what the Forerunners did to them, they decide to enact vengeance on all life? I mean, sure this'd make sense if the Flood were mindless, but they're not, they operate like the Geth of Mass Effect, but also have the benefit of the shared super intelligence which is the Gravemind. Surely it'd want to serve its old masters intentions and help humanity attain the mantle?

The Flood wanting to achieve genetic singularity just made sense as an ultimate goal from a messed up, but feasible evolutionary standpoint, it was simple yet terrifying. The Flood were goofy and carried out their intentions by doing their own thing. They cared little for galactic politics, and just focused on having a really good time, now as that's been taken away from them, I'm not so sure what they stand for, or why.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Because it doesn't fit in with classic Halo gameplay. ALMOST all vehicles in the games prior emphasized speed and/or transport as it's primary functions and then firepower. Whether it was the warthog, ghost, revenant, hornet, falcon, brute chopper, banshee, heck even the scorpion. You picked a brute chopper because it gave you an advantage over going on foot. You could traverse the map in 1/10th the time, use it to get to weapons, a battle. It's firepower wasn't overpowering but enough that a skilled user could make a chopper quite a threat.

The mantis is the antithesis of every vehicle. It doesn't have precision firepower like a tank, doesn't have the speed of a ghost, doesn't have the transport capabilities of a warthog.

It moves slowly, it looks awkward, and it's firepower is the definition of spray and pray with its random firing of multiple rockets and chain gun spread. It requires little skill to use, outside of maybe the melee stomp which has a ridiculous splash radius.

It's a camp vehicle acting as a damage sponge. You could destroy 2-3 tanks with shots in the time it'll take you to destroy a mantis. And so it goes back to what Halo gameplay is like, especially BTB. Honestly ask yourselves, how often does a mantis cross the halfway point in any map it's on, Ragnarok, Valhalla etc.

Very good points. I wish they would just bring back the Hornet. Nothing was more intense than flying beneath a player lifting off of the man cannon with the objective, grabbing on, and then flying them to safety.

 

[Ominym]

Plus, you can't flip it, or do anything with it that you can to other vehicles.

I think this is something often understated. There's only one real way to handle the mantis, and that's to kill it outright. No lucky grenade to flip it, no way to out run it, it can only be boarded from one side, spartan laser isn't effective, etc. Not to mention it's got two long range and one close range weapon operated all by one driver. It's a terrible vehicle.

Spoiler

It just makes me question where 343i are going with the future installments. The origin story they have provided the Flood/Precursors is a fairly confusing one. They intended humanity to take the mantle, but out of revenge for what the Forerunners did to them, they decide to enact vengeance on all life? I mean, sure this'd make sense if the Flood were mindless, but they're not, they operate like the Geth of Mass Effect, but also have the benefit of the shared super intelligence which is the Gravemind. Surely it'd want to serve its old masters intentions and help humanity attain the mantle?

The Flood wanting to achieve genetic singularity just made sense as an ultimate goal from a messed up, but feasible evolutionary standpoint, it was simple yet terrifying. The Flood were goofy and carried out their intentions by doing their own thing. They cared little for galactic politics, and just focused on having a really good time, now as that's been taken away from them, I'm not so sure what they stand for, or why.

Silentium spoilers:

Spoiler

Not to mention it ruins the mystique surrounding the literal universe in Halo. Much like with Mass Effect, I often wonder what's going on in other galaxies besides the one we're used to. What is the galaxy the Reapers were waiting in like? Is there life in other galaxies? For examples. These are very similar questions I had about the flood, as I often pictured them as a mysterious organism unknown to the base galaxy showing up from reaches unknown. It fleshed out the realization that the universe is much bigger than all we've seen; it opened up possibilities unimaginable for other races to be encountered, other space to be explored, etc. And they've completely squandered it by making it a threat created locally.

 

[Conor 419]

Yeah, I thought being able to ram the Mantis over would have been cool.

 

[IHaveIce]

Watching the panel, when Potter asks "did you guys hear about certain affinity?" why didn't the crowd started shouting yes and rioting.
These hacks.

 

[matthieuC]

Very good points. I wish they would just bring back the Hornet. Nothing was more intense than flying beneath a player lifting off of the man cannon with the objective, grabbing on, and then flying them to safety.

Yeah I miss the Hornet as well, but I actually like the falcon much more. I felt like you needed to use more teamwork to do well with it.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Anyone developed any fun strats for Halo Wars recently? Rushing with brute/arby, or going hogs with anders is getting old

I like team games because a lot of the rush strats aren't that effective, especially over the longer distances. That said I generally play Forge like SC Terrans and inch forward with Cobras and infantry for air support. Backed up with some Spartans in Grizzlies, you're set.

Why do people get so excited over assassinations?

I like assassinations because they're like more refined corpse-humping. You get some eye-candy, you get to make the other player feel powerless for a bit, and you can move on.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Entire Panel

Why do people get so excited over assassinations?

 

[FyreWulff]

Why do people get so excited over assassinations?

panel audiences

mark out for basic things


earth shattering news: "8|"

 

[Redford]

When's the real Fiesta gametype coming out?

 

[Homeboyd]

When do we get the deets on this forge map?!? Dammit!

 

[Poker Face]

When's the real Fiesta gametype coming out?

i don't think they gave a concrete date. if i had to guess it will arrive before the TU

pax was good. definitely regret not getting a 3-day pass, so will do that next time.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

One of these times someone needs to ask the panels why they only have symmetrical objective gametypes, but mostly asymmetrical maps for them. I just do not understand that design philosophy and am genuinely curious why they do it.

 

[IHaveIce]

Ok idiots who film Panels and put it on. When people show of livegameplay of tweaked weapons you capture it and not the faces of the panelists.

Also I have to cringe so hard everytime jessica opens her mouth Not a fan of her humour.

 

[metzger203]

One of these times someone needs to ask the panels why they only have symmetrical objective gametypes, but mostly asymmetrical maps for them. I just do not understand that design philosophy and am genuinely curious why they do it.

This. Probably the most baffling design decision in the entire game, for me at least.

 

[no bullets hans]

I think this is something often understated. There's only one real way to handle the mantis, and that's to kill it outright. No lucky grenade to flip it, no way to out run it, it can only be boarded from one side, spartan laser isn't effective, etc. Not to mention it's got two long range and one close range weapon operated all by one driver. It's a terrible vehicle.



Silentium spoilers:

Spoiler

Not to mention it ruins the mystique surrounding the literal universe in Halo. Much like with Mass Effect, I often wonder what's going on in other galaxies besides the one we're used to. What is the galaxy the Reapers were waiting in like? Is there life in other galaxies? For examples. These are very similar questions I had about the flood, as I often pictured them as a mysterious organism unknown to the base galaxy showing up from reaches unknown. It fleshed out the realization that the universe is much bigger than all we've seen; it opened up possibilities unimaginable for other races to be encountered, other space to be explored, etc. And they've completely squandered it by making it a threat created locally.

Spoiler

I think the main thing was that the Flood the Foreunners/Humans faced was still a little more coherent than the version Humans/Covenant face in 2552 or whenever. It's also possible that over time, the mental cohesiveness of a Gravemind or minds is lessened. You're looking at Flood post-halo event, lab specimens let loose after the fact, so while we know the Precursor/Flood could change and adapt previously, its possible that this version of the Flood is less like the one the Forerunners fought, despite the latent memory of those wars. I mean, they're described similarly but their abilities in the 26th century seem somewhat less...finessed.

 

[Havok]

One of these times someone needs to ask the panels why they only have symmetrical objective gametypes, but mostly asymmetrical maps for them. I just do not understand that design philosophy and am genuinely curious why they do it.

For the launch maps, I wonder if it was just that the maps were too far along to be changed when they decided that no asymmetric gametypes were going to make the cut. I don't really think that's much of an excuse, but I could at least understand it then.

Of course, that doesn't really explain why the DLC suffers from the same problem. In some ways, I wonder if they just don't get it (see: IGN's Daybreak walkthrough with CA devs saying "well, it's functionally symmetric!" when that is clearly not the case just by looking at the features of the bases, following it up with how it's the "best CTF map he's ever played," which is more than baffling). Even now there's nothing stopping them from cutting absolute crap that is a complete chore to play, like Complex and Abandon CTF, but it doesn't really look like those changes are going to happen anytime soon (especially when Forge variants can pretty easily fill the holes they leave in the map pool).

 

[Fuchsdh]

Spoiler

I think the main thing was that the Flood the Foreunners/Humans faced was still a little more coherent than the version Humans/Covenant face in 2552 or whenever. It's also possible that over time, the mental cohesiveness of a Gravemind or minds is lessened. You're looking at Flood post-halo event, lab specimens let loose after the fact, so while we know the Precursor/Flood could change and adapt previously, its possible that this version of the Flood is less like the one the Forerunners fought, despite the latent memory of those wars. I mean, they're described similarly but their abilities in the 26th century seem somewhat less...finessed.

They also don't have the benefit of

Spoiler

all the Precursor technology, including the Domain. The Flood were smashing up planets and fleets with Precursor star roads that got subsequently obliterated by the Halo Array. Compared to the mass of the Flood in the final days of the Human-Covenant War, the 26th century hasn't faced anything close to it.

(Go read Silentium. It's awesome.)

 

[Tashi]

One of these times someone needs to ask the panels why they only have symmetrical objective gametypes, but mostly asymmetrical maps for them. I just do not understand that design philosophy and am genuinely curious why they do it.

Monday, hopefully

 

[Pop]

Some people are just completely blinded by pretty graphics...

regardless of whatever could be wrong with the core game and their probably bad anyways

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

The core gameplay in Halo 4 needs to be fixed so badly, I really hope Halo 5 is a major improvement.

 

[JackHerer]

Ugh Infinity BTB frame rate drops are horrendous. Played two games, one on Shatter and the other on Exile. I forgot how bad it was

People can just rush you with the AR and you can't do anythingbecause the frame rate makes it impossible to aim.

 

[Orochinagis]

Spoiler

It just makes me question where 343i are going with the future installments. The origin story they have provided the Flood/Precursors is a fairly confusing one. They intended humanity to take the mantle, but out of revenge for what the Forerunners did to them, they decide to enact vengeance on all life? I mean, sure this'd make sense if the Flood were mindless, but they're not, they operate like the Geth of Mass Effect, but also have the benefit of the shared super intelligence which is the Gravemind. Surely it'd want to serve its old masters intentions and help humanity attain the mantle?

The Flood wanting to achieve genetic singularity just made sense as an ultimate goal from a messed up, but feasible evolutionary standpoint, it was simple yet terrifying. The Flood were goofy and carried out their intentions by doing their own thing. They cared little for galactic politics, and just focused on having a really good time, now as that's been taken away from them, I'm not so sure what they stand for, or why.

So they are

Spoiler

zerg

now? meh.

I think, it destroys their charm to just be a simple organism that wants to asimilate other lifeforms.

 

[Conor 419]

So they are

Spoiler

zerg

now? meh.

I think, it destroys their charm to just be a simple organism that wants to asimilate other lifeforms.

?

Spoiler

How did you interpret that from my post?

 

[Shake Appeal]

We will never hear the thought process behind any decision in the game, which is a shame because that's half the problem.

I've been kickstarting a lot of cool RPGs lately, and it's really hammered home how night and day their approach is with 'AAA' developers when it comes to engaging with their fans and explaining their choices!

 

[User 73706]

?

Spoiler

How did you interpret that from my post?

so much black ink. (silentium)

Spoiler

I'm guessing he was expecting something grand or at least the motives of the flood to remain ambiguous rather than spilling it out that what we see now is simply a virus spread by a once-great civilization and nothing more.

Anyone want to help me test my Regicide variant in 1-2 hours?

 

[Fuchsdh]

I've been kickstarting a lot of cool RPGs lately, and it's really hammered home how night and day their approach is with 'AAA' developers when it comes to engaging with their fans and explaining their choices!

Well, yeah. AAA game developers make the game and you decide to buy it. Kickstarter games are funded beforehand, so it makes sense they'd have more development influence.

Anyone want to help me test my Regicide variant in 1-2 hours?

I'll prolly be on after I got out with some friends later tonight (like in three or four hours from now.)

 

[Booshka]

The core gameplay in Halo 4 needs to be fixed so badly, I really hope Halo 5 is a major improvement.

It wont be, keep hoping.

 

[Pop]

It wont be, keep hoping.

i r sad now

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Which specialization gives ordnance re-roll?

 

[User 73706]

Which specialization gives ordnance re-roll?

Rogue

 

[Poker Face]

Which specialization gives ordnance re-roll?

tracker i think

 

[Booshka]

i r sad now

I've been hoping each Halo would be better than the last for 8 years. It's not gonna happen, they are still good games, but just not the amazing Halo game you want.

 

[Madness]

It wont be, keep hoping.

Not to join team slrp, but it will be better. Everything they've done since launch is refine or change their launch game.

Adding in X after death, removing instant respawn and loadouts from playlist, bringing in static on map ordnance. Heck even the flat spaces on forge shows they understand what their longtime fans want.

But you have to remember, they have to juggle a juices with an ozzy. Why throw money and time at a game when the people still playing don't want it? Even if 40k players is horrible, those 40k would probably hate if you took out camo, the DMR, and so they can't risk losing those players to try and regain players who may or may not come back.

We have to give them the benefit of another game as they are no longer a virgin studio.

Let's see how the upcoming TU, free forge island, csr and other features are inplemented. Another key thing to note is that Halo 5 will launch on new hardware, we can expect they'll have the space and technology not to skimp on much.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Well I'm about 3 hours into Infinite, so here are my initial and probably only thoughts on the game until more of HaloGaf plays it. I'm not going to say anything about the story.

The game itself is an incredible sequel, Irrational do many things in infinite that really resonates with me.

The first thing is that they have created a world, contrasting with rapture but built up with interesting characters and ideologies. They've populated it with grandeur and mystery far beyond what I thought was possible this gen.

Certainly it costs them, there is a regular occurrence of stuttering, although I don't think as much as you would get if you installed the disk (I have it installed). But, there is an ability to unlock the framerate to provide a smoother experience at the expense of graphical fidelity.

Everything else top notch and you can see and hear style ooze throughout every inch of the game, the music sublime, the menu is awesome, I could just leave it on there for a couple of minutes.

Now, in relation to the gameplay, this is Bioshock through and through, yet, more polished. The most common criticism of BS1 was that the gunplay was quite poor. I think they've done a marvellous job to bring that up to scratch, it now plays as good you would expect from a traditional shoot bang game. The sky hook is a very thrilling and novel way to travel, and in combat situations, the whole game when using the sky hook, plasmids and guns just clicks.

Two tips, if you want to maximise the better FPS mechanics you should choose the second controller option, which put ADS on the left trigger and plasmids on the LB. the second tip is that start the game on hard, it is pretty easy so far.

Irrational have also delved into issues such as racism and religion with great depth, this is evident from how game presents such issues, either graphically or through audio diaries. They have confronted those issues whereas other devs would shy away from.

And as a last word, to those on here who are big BS fans, what can I say? Well, remember seeing Rapture for the first time? Exploring its wonder and mystery and being satisfied by it all? Well, be prepared to have that feeling all over again.

Really want to play this but I won't get it at launch. I will wait for the inevitable price drop.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

For the launch maps, I wonder if it was just that the maps were too far along to be changed when they decided that no asymmetric gametypes were going to make the cut. I don't really think that's much of an excuse, but I could at least understand it then.

Of course, that doesn't really explain why the DLC suffers from the same problem. In some ways, I wonder if they just don't get it (see: IGN's Daybreak walkthrough with CA devs saying "well, it's functionally symmetric!" when that is clearly not the case just by looking at the features of the bases, following it up with how it's the "best CTF map he's ever played," which is more than baffling). Even now there's nothing stopping them from cutting absolute crap that is a complete chore to play, like Complex and Abandon CTF, but it doesn't really look like those changes are going to happen anytime soon (especially when Forge variants can pretty easily fill the holes they leave in the map pool).

So, yeah I bet the bolded both things as I bet they are both the case. I bet we did have 1-flag at a point and some maps were built with that in mind, but I also think they do not fully get it. Same thing with Forge- I'm glad that we are getting Forge Island, but I do have to wonder why it was necessary in the first place. Large flat forgeable surfaces was most the most requested thing next to color/texture/pallete swaps. And we didn't get either. I just don't understand these things.

Monday, hopefully

Oh, whats Monday?

 

[Shafto]

Regarding Siltentium:

Spoiler

The flood weren't created with a purpose by the Precursors - the Flood IS the Precursors. They somehow turned to powder following the Forerunner uprising, in an effort to survive, but Silentium implies that they became 'defective'. There was no effort to give Humans The Mantle.

 

[The Henery]

Only that it's a mix between Infinity and Throwdown.

My guess is no personal ordnance, static weapon respawns but full customizable loadouts and such but with the new weapon balances coming.

It's speculative at the moment but I understood Franklin to mean between Infinity and Throwdown in terms of how 'hardcore' the mode was, with Infinity being casual and Throwdown being the MLG-type ultra competitive playlist. Definitely piqued my interest as I've felt for some time that there is no middle ground for the 'average' Halo player in Halo 4; you either play the extremely casual Infinity whose ancestry is more Fiesta than traditional Halo or you play the no radar playlist populated by teams of four and ex-semi pro's. Your common or garden 'Team Slayer' which was the central foundation of Halo for the original trilogy has been absent for two games now. Reach's Team Slayer was an abomination and in many ways a bigger shock to the system than Infinity Slayer; going from Halo 3 TS to relentless Armour Locking, radar scrambling camo abuse, 100% bloom, no bleed through, an extremely obnoxious jetpack... never forget. Infinity Slayer is terrible and always will be but at least by Halo 4 we were accustomed to the horseshit AA's bring to Halo.

Well I'm about 3 hours into Infinite, so here are my initial and probably only thoughts on the game until more of HaloGaf plays it. I'm not going to say anything about the story.

The game itself is an incredible sequel, Irrational do many things in infinite that really resonates with me.

The first thing is that they have created a world, contrasting with rapture but built up with interesting characters and ideologies. They've populated it with grandeur and mystery far beyond what I thought was possible this gen.

Certainly it costs them, there is a regular occurrence of stuttering, although I don't think as much as you would get if you installed the disk (I have it installed). But, there is an ability to unlock the framerate to provide a smoother experience at the expense of graphical fidelity.

Everything else top notch and you can see and hear style ooze throughout every inch of the game, the music sublime, the menu is awesome, I could just leave it on there for a couple of minutes.

Now, in relation to the gameplay, this is Bioshock through and through, yet, more polished. The most common criticism of BS1 was that the gunplay was quite poor. I think they've done a marvellous job to bring that up to scratch, it now plays as good you would expect from a traditional shoot bang game. The sky hook is a very thrilling and novel way to travel, and in combat situations, the whole game when using the sky hook, plasmids and guns just clicks.

Two tips, if you want to maximise the better FPS mechanics you should choose the second controller option, which put ADS on the left trigger and plasmids on the LB. the second tip is that start the game on hard, it is pretty easy so far.

Irrational have also delved into issues such as racism and religion with great depth, this is evident from how game presents such issues, either graphically or through audio diaries. They have confronted those issues whereas other devs would shy away from.

And as a last word, to those on here who are big BS fans, what can I say? Well, remember seeing Rapture for the first time? Exploring its wonder and mystery and being satisfied by it all? Well, be prepared to have that feeling all over again.

Nice writeup, sounds very promising.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Rogue

Funny guy

 

[JHall]

Really want to play this but I won't get it at launch. I will wait for the inevitable price drop.

Get it day one. You know you want to.

 

[Conor 419]

Regarding Siltentium:

Spoiler

The flood weren't created with a purpose by the Precursors - the Flood IS the Precursors. They somehow turned to powder following the Forerunner uprising, in an effort to survive, but Silentium implies that they became 'defective'. There was no effort to give Humans The Mantle.

Spoiler

But why do the Flood go rogue when Gravemind knows what's going down?