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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved

Havok

Member
I don't think their matching system works that well at all. But if you design something and the implementation is off, does that make the design bad? Let me be clear, the matching doesn't work quite as well as I'd have liked.

Could you elaborate on the other ways it works against that effort? How do the various abilities, perks or whatever counter that player experience?
That matchmaking implementation is the lynchpin to the entire thing. The two are inseparable, each has to be taken with the other. It has never worked in Call of Duty games (from which they drew this entire progression system nearly whole-hog, even down to Spartan Points being an analog to COD Points), it certainly doesn't work here. If that had been nailed, yeah, the problems wouldn't be as big of a deal. But I think to assume that it would work ideally (or even close to ideally), as they would have in order to confidently institute something like this, is incredibly foolish in the same way designing a game entirely around honor rules would be. Things don't work as planned and that needs to be anticipated in the design.

When they talk about new players, I'm imagining people who went into matchmaking before, got destroyed, and then just left. How would locking options behind more frustration help them stick around? They aren't the kind of people that were ever intending to invest that time before, why would they start now? Maybe they say "oh, that one item might be the key to the whole thing!" and end up sticking around - I'm sure that's what 343 would like to see happen. But I suspect that instead they say "oh no, it's still not fun for me," because the mechanics and skill matching, which were the real barrier to entry, still exist behind the artificial wall of progression.
 

Madness

Member
I don't get it... Do they not see the overwhelming negative response longtime Halo fans have given to Halo 4?

The only people who think 343 have done a good job, are the casual fans. And I mean casual as the person who will buy or rent the game, play for a month aand move on. They don't get too invested in the universe or the multiplayer enough to see the faults.

I had 70+ friends play Halo 3, still had about 10-20 friends play Reach up till launch of Halo 4. I'm the last guy playing Halo 4 still.

So, this line of thinking by Josh is fine if all you want are quick sales and annual releases, but you lose a large and hardcover fan base. In under a decade, the Halo community became one of the largest in gaming. Hell look at HaloGAF, we are on OT15. And yet, how many on HaloGAF still play or are happy with the changes?
 
mu9t8DO.jpg
 

TheOddOne

Member
I don't get it... Do they not see the overwhelming negative response longtime Halo fans have given to Halo 4?
Use logic. They are never going to admit that their game was a failure, but they do see the reponse from everybody. Halo 4 is not going to change, much of the basic structure is already built and there is no way they can't overhaul it without breaking everything.
 
I don't get it... Do they not see the overwhelming negative response longtime Halo fans have given to Halo 4?

The only people who think 343 have done a good job, are the casual fans. And I mean casual as the person who will buy or rent the game, play for a month aand move on. They don't get too invested in the universe or the multiplayer enough to see the faults.

I had 70+ friends play Halo 3, still had about 10-20 friends play Reach up till launch of Halo 4. I'm the last guy playing Halo 4 still.

So, this line of thinking by Josh is fine if all you want are quick sales and annual releases, but you lose a large and hardcover fan base. In under a decade, the Halo community became one of the largest in gaming. Hell look at HaloGAF, we are on OT15. And yet, how many on HaloGAF still play or are happy with the changes?

I honestly doubt they care that much, they are extending olive branches but the real money makers are the casuals.
 

Nebula

Member
I had 70+ friends play Halo 3, still had about 10-20 friends play Reach up till launch of Halo 4. I'm the last guy playing Halo 4 still.

The reaction to Reach and how far the population dropped should have told 343 to stop Halo from going down that road. Instead they piled in the coal and went full steam ahead.

I have a guy who still plays Halo 3 daily. I don't see anyone playing Halo 4 everyday guaranteed like that.
 

Madness

Member
Use logic. They are never going to admit that their game was a failure, but they do see the reponse from everybody. Halo 4 is not going to change, much of the basic structure is already built and there is no way they can't overhaul it without breaking everything.

Oh I'm not expecting Halo 4 to change at all. That's why I've been happy with the X on death, forge island etc.

I don't think the game was a failure so much as a letdown. But now, I'd just prefer if they didn't try to defend so much of their decisions as opposed to admitting some of them didn't work and try to make it better for the future.

Maybe go back and play Halo 1-3 with others in the studio and see why fans loved the game so much and what is different when you then play Halo 4.

I have no ill will towards 343, I won't insult them or tell them how to do their jobs. All I will say is that longtime fans aren't really happy or enjoying themselves with a large portion of the game.
 
Should have been a gif where he rolled forward and the X moved with him.

lol Thought of that but it required another minute of my attention. I'm still in shock that they think saying things like "it's what the players asked for" can still fly with a new company..

Another trilogy of lies.
I'll buy the next one.
Used.
If it's not blocked.
lol Hi.
RIP Halo.

/wrist
 
The reaction to Reach and how far the population dropped should have told 343 to stop Halo from going down that road. Instead they piled in the coal and went full steam ahead.

It is still yet to proven that Halo's population decline is due to the changes made in Halo 4. I beleive that Halo's population decline is due to Halo fatigue. It's easy to point to a game in a franchise rathet than the franchise itself.
 

J10

Banned
I don't get it... Do they not see the overwhelming negative response longtime Halo fans have given to Halo 4?

The only people who think 343 have done a good job, are the casual fans. And I mean casual as the person who will buy or rent the game, play for a month aand move on. They don't get too invested in the universe or the multiplayer enough to see the faults.

I had 70+ friends play Halo 3, still had about 10-20 friends play Reach up till launch of Halo 4. I'm the last guy playing Halo 4 still.

So, this line of thinking by Josh is fine if all you want are quick sales and annual releases, but you lose a large and hardcover fan base. In under a decade, the Halo community became one of the largest in gaming. Hell look at HaloGAF, we are on OT15. And yet, how many on HaloGAF still play or are happy with the changes?

They. Don't. Give. A. Fuck.
 
jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg


This one image fairly neatly explains why I quit Halo. Like, outright quit. I just stopped playing one day, not long after launch, and never went back. It makes me sad to think about sometimes.
 

TheOddOne

Member
I don't think the game was a failure so much as a letdown. But now, I'd just prefer if they didn't try to defend so much of their decisions as opposed to admitting some of them didn't work and try to make it better for the future.
That is very selective reading. Yes, they do promote that they are proud of the game (which is really not a bad thing, they shipped their first game, formed a studio and more). Yet, they also admit to many fault, for example the way the first DLC was handled, The enemies in the campaign and more. Much of that is drowned out though.

I'm not even defending 343, but just to look at the whole picture.
 
It is still yet to proven that Halo's population decline is due to the changes made in Halo 4. I beleive that Halo's population decline is due to Halo fatigue. It's easy to point to a game in a franchise rathet than the franchise itself.

It is because of the changes. Fatigue is not the case,look at COD.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg


This one image fairly neatly explains why I quit Halo. Like, outright quit. I just stopped playing one day, not long after launch, and never went back. It makes me sad to think about sometimes.

I'll bet my left nut these were some Bungie goals as well over the years.
 

Ghazi

Member
lol Thought of that but it required another minute of my attention. I'm still in shock that they think saying things like "it's what the players asked for" can still fly with a new company..

Another trilogy of lies.
I'll buy the next one.
Used.
If it's not blocked.
lol Hi.
RIP Halo.

/wrist

RIP Unknown's wrist
 
I'll bet my left nut these were some Bungie goals as well over the years.
I don't have much of a problem with the three stated goals on the right; they're admirable, really. I have a problem with the image, which is so tone deaf to their audience (i.e. the kind of people who actually tune in for things like this post-mortem) that it surprises me. But actually, after the entire pre- and post-release experience of 343's marketing and community interaction (excepting their posts here on GAF), it shouldn't.

These guys have the astonishing luck to be making Halo games every day, and good luck to them. But flatly, some or most of them do not "get it", as I would characterize "getting it". Like, at all. And while I fully appreciate it's not their job to make games for me, or to care about what I find fun about Halo, also not my obligation to buy them or play those games if I find them profoundly disappointing.

And so far, I do.
 
I don't get it... Do they not see the overwhelming negative response longtime Halo fans have given to Halo 4?

They already responded to that, don't you remember the crying baby pic?

As for 'make Halo more accessible'... Halo was and remains one of the most accessible first person shooters of all time. Of all time. Easy to pick up, hard to master as all the great games are. Then they went and threw a camo and see through walls button in there.

Also, how is putting a stable reticle when scoped behind 40 hours of play and an initial pay wall helping new players? So many conflicting ideals between 343's stated aims and their final product.
 

Akai__

Member
343i should start to make polls about everything, that is questionable in their and our eyes.

I hear "we listened to feedback" all the time, but where is this feedback from? More transparency wouldn't hurt, I guess.
 
Halo 4 has the worst ending encounter I've ever played. Play on this 3 incredibly similar locations against bullet sponge enemies with a poor weapon sandbox until then do a QTE.

It could have been something like the tartatus battle. He could have had crazy high HP and be spawning in knights to distract you. Id take that over stale gameplay and a QTE

Playing Halo 3. 6000 people online. This is fun.
 
343i should start to make polls about everything, that is questionable in their and our eyes.

I hear "we listened to feedback" all the time, but where is this feedback from? More transparency wouldn't hurt, I guess.
I imagine Microsoft do a shit-ton of qualitative and quantitative research on their first-party titles.

There is probably a lot of focus group footage on a server in Redmond somewhere that would make your brain melt if you watched it.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
I don't have much of a problem with the three stated goals on the right; they're admirable, really. I have a problem with the image, which is so tone deaf to their audience (i.e. the kind of people who actually tune in for things like this post-mortem) that it surprises me. But actually, after the entire pre- and post-release experience of 343's marketing and community interaction (excepting their posts here on GAF), it shouldn't.

These guys have the astonishing luck to be making Halo games every day, and good luck to them. But flatly, some or most of them do not "get it", as I would characterize "getting it". Like, at all. And while I fully appreciate it's not their job to make games for me, or to care about what I find fun about Halo, also not my obligation to buy them or play those games if I find them profoundly disappointing.

And so far, I do.

Ehh I'm not sure about the not getting it part. I just think there are some things that are out of their control.

I see it like the end of the Namek Saga in DBZ. Goku (343) is charging up the Spirit Bomb (Halo 4) while Freeza (us) is sitting there waiting for that shit. Finally it hits but instead of killing Freeza (fully satisfying us) it just leaves Freeza wounded and pissed. (Not entirely pleased, wanting more!)

reach? still not nearly as bad as 4. They were already tired of making halo games by Halo 3.

Paging Bigshow and Orzrnge or any other Halo 1 fanatics...
 

Tawpgun

Member
I see it like the end of the Namek Saga in DBZ. Goku (343) is charging up the Spirit Bomb (Halo 4) while Freeza (us) is sitting there waiting for that shit. Finally it hits us but instead of killing Freeza (fully satisfying us) it just leaves Freeza wounded and pissed. (Not entirely pleased, wanting more!)

what
 
wanting more!
Nope.

Will not buy Halo 5. Would take white-hot positive feedback from this thread for more than a month after launch for me to consider buying it.

But I probably won't be getting a console in future, really, the way things are going (in general). PC all the way.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Nope.

Will not buy Halo 5. Would take white-hot positive feedback from this thread for more than a month after launch for me to consider buying it.

But I probably won't be getting a console in future, really, the way things are going (in general). PC all the way.

Sorry, I meant it as in, "we want more out of the game" not, "we want more of this"
 
reach? still not nearly as bad as 4. They were already tired of making halo games by Halo 3.

Serious?

Halo 2:
  • Aimbot auto aim
  • "Needler" bullet magnetism (lol)
  • Deliberately inconsistent launch BR to help newer players randomly win against better players* which was only changed because of how broken it was with the crappy netcode and people complaining
  • This list goes on..
Halo 3:
  • After a H2 TU BR "fix," Halo 3 launched (and stayed) with an inconsistent, nonhitscan BR
  • Watered down sandbox
  • Even slower gameplay than Halo 2
  • The list goes on..
Reach:
  • Reach.


*The plague of Halo.

XFds48a.jpg
 
Serious?

Halo 2:
  • Aimbot auto aim
  • "Needler" bullet magnetism (lol)
  • Deliberately inconsistent launch BR to help newer players randomly win against better players* which was only changed because of how broken it was with the crappy netcode and people complaining
  • This list goes on..
Halo 3:
  • After a H2 TU BR "fix," Halo 3 launched (and stayed) with an inconsistent, nonhitscan BR
  • Watered down sandbox
  • Even slower gameplay than Halo 2
  • The list goes on..
Reach:
  • Reach.


*The plague of Halo.

XFds48a.jpg

They were still real halo games at least. you guys liked the games ,i remember when halo 3 was out and reading gaf.
 

Nebula

Member
It is still yet to proven that Halo's population decline is due to the changes made in Halo 4. I beleive that Halo's population decline is due to Halo fatigue. It's easy to point to a game in a franchise rathet than the franchise itself.

If that was the case then surely the drop off near the end of Halo 3 should have been massive, since not only would it be franchise fatigue, but also Halo 3 fatigue.
 
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