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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved

CyReN

Member
Happy Easter GAF, and watch Halo 4 EGL now!

cKLfYUJ.png

ugh

Saw that coming, I guess we can blame something on CoD now?


He was referring to the Gears community btw, not Halo.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Are you saying pushing the stick all the way to sprint and only slightly to walk? That would not be good lol
 

FyreWulff

Member
Are you saying pushing the stick all the way to sprint and only slightly to walk? That would not be good lol

No. You'd just go into sprint after a short beat of holding the stick all the way in one direction.

They could also easily collapse jetpack into the existing jump by making it act like a double jump. A to jump, A again while in air.
 

Dongs Macabre

aka Daedalos42
No. You'd just go into sprint after a short beat of holding the stick all the way in one direction.

They could also easily collapse jetpack into the existing jump by making it act like a double jump. A to jump, A again while in air.

That would be amazing for me, since I use Bumper Jumper. I wouldn't have to claw anymore.
 

Tawpgun

Member
What if the weapon just bobbed a bit more but the reticle would still be there and the weapon would be up. Feels like you're sprinting with the gun up

This generation is weird. They want to sacrifice being able to shoot just so they can look fast.
 

FyreWulff

Member
What if the weapon just bobbed a bit more but the reticle would still be there and the weapon would be up. Feels like you're sprinting with the gun up

This generation is weird. They want to sacrifice being able to shoot just so they can look fast.

That's what unfortunately happens sometimes. Developers will all start aping a mechanic, not really understanding why that mechanic was put in the game it was in the first place. Both suits and devs get caught in thinking something is what made a game popular when it was the whole package.

Then silly gamers will say "buh buh this game doesn't have sprint and ironsights! It's not moderned enough!"
 
Doesn't the first snow mission have quite a few? Dunno what it's called. I just remember being surrounded by them playing solo

This spreadsheet might help: https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=A39C946A316F7935!217&app=Excel

When I was still doing challenges, I'd usually go to (I think?) Nothing Can Go Wrong (I think it's in Episode 5) for Watchers. There is a big wave of Watchers at the beginning, and you can just restart it when you've killed the initial wave and keep the challenge progress.

I think Science Mountain (the Scorpion level) has a lot of Watchers. Not sure if there's 30, though.
Thanks for the help, I picked the first mission of Episode 5. (The first enemy waves are about 10-12 Watchers).

Sprint is one of the lesser con sides. Yes. It comes from CoD, but I can live with it (if everyone has spring)
 

FyreWulff

Member
I believe the modern usage of sprint in FPS actually came from Half Life 2 popularizing it. Treyarch introduced sprint in CoD with 3. IW copied it for 4, the first CoD that exploded in popularity, and the rest is history.

I'd like to know someday why people think ironsights belongs in every FPS though. Beyond "hey guys imma looking down my gun!"
 

Tawpgun

Member
I believe the modern usage of sprint in FPS actually came from Half Life 2 popularizing it. Treyarch introduced sprint in CoD with 3. IW copied it for 4, the first CoD that exploded in popularity, and the rest is history.

I'd like to know someday why people think ironsights belongs in every FPS though. Beyond "hey guys imma looking down my gun!"

"realism"
 

DeadNames

Banned
I believe the modern usage of sprint in FPS actually came from Half Life 2 popularizing it. Treyarch introduced sprint in CoD with 3. IW copied it for 4, the first CoD that exploded in popularity, and the rest is history.

I'd like to know someday why people think ironsights belongs in every FPS though. Beyond "hey guys imma looking down my gun!"

"More skill based"
 
Whether these words are in this post, in a video, or in person, my wish is that this message will reach the developers. My wish is that I can touch your hearts and minds if only for a moment.

Listen, you guys are all great people and deserve every bit of praise for your achievements. I like watching your ViDocs, I enjoy your bulletins, and I'd love to meet you all in person. As a team, you definitely have the skills and tools to build a game to rival or even surpass previous installments. The way you set out to accomplish your ambitious story and overcome challenges was very impressive to me.

But not all is well, and I believe what has the community in so much disarray is the way you have been thinking about Multiplayer and its players. It is discouraging to someone who likes the game to see its developers talk about the MP the way they did at GDC or represent us by an inappropriate sign (which Mr. Homles later apologized for). Even with that, the chatter elsewhere shows us that you're building a game that few Halo players can enjoy by changing or removing what kept them playing. All these things aren't making it accessible; Halo has always been accessible, and by limiting the very things that made it so, you instead end up with the exact opposite.

As a 10 year Halo fan, I implore each individual at 343 to keep this close - Halo doesn't need to compete with the market. Halo doesn't need to evolve like this; it already had tremendous depth when it first came out, and that's what set it apart. Halo is the game that a person will travel across states to play in LANs. It's the game that I can co-op Campaign with my brother for 24 hours straight. It's the game where people who kept playing to get good were really good. It's the game where you can play whatever the hell you want in custom games because of the massive amount of tools available to you.

Halo is different for everyone, but what Halo isn't is a follower. It's important to understand that the mainstream shooter audience aren't going to appreciate what Halo is. There are a lot of Halo fans and we will continue to support you and play the game for many years, but you must prioritize support for us as well. For example, a community feature as imperative as File Share is something Halo players need, not something we should be waiting for 3 months later. We live in a quick time, and when you are unable to share content with players for those 3 months it seems like an eternity. Without being able to connect with the players, we fall apart.

What 343 needs to keep in mind going forward is that the community makes the game. The community will make it accessible by teaching others and developing different gametypes and maps. The community will be the ones supporting the game for 3-5 years. Each part of the community from the forgers and machinimakers all the way to the campaign and multiplayer players all make up what we know as Halo. We know you want to build games you like, but please notice how in doing this there are many communities who have been alienated. We cannot compromise everything.

But there is still good news - we are still here and we are still crying out to you. If you can show us that you can truly work with the community, let it be known here that I promise to support you once again and stand by your side. Let us in on your design process and your reasoning for doing things, and be straight with us. The Halo community just wants a good Halo game, and that starts with keeping what made it great - the community interaction - not by stripping it away. Do that, and you will have your blockbuster. You will have your awards. You will have your CoD killer. Because we will fucking kill it for you. And we will do it with you.

I'm tired of everyone fighting each other. I don't want to see people who love something I love upset, and I don't want to see you guys discouraged. Shall we move forward?
 
Sprint does not belong in all shooters I don't care what random on twitter tries to tell people. Sprint is simply not necessary in a game like Halo and its effects are clearly a detriment to how the design of the game unfolds and how the game is played.

  • Maps HAVE to be larger to accommodate sprinting players
  • Sprinting players despite what "fluff" you add to it like slow down when shot mechanics still can escape death using it.
  • Base speed suffers because of its inclusion
  • Vehicles become less relevant on larger maps especially the mongoose
 

wwm0nkey

Member
I think this needs to be said. In this post, in a video, in person, or wherever - I think 343 really just needs to hear some straight talk.

You guys are all great people. I like watching your ViDocs, I enjoy your bulletins, and I'd love to meet you all in person. As a team, you guys definitely have the skills and tools to build a game to rival or even surpass previous installments. Your ambition for the Campaign with how you developed the story and tone and overcame challenges was impressive to me.

I believe what has the community in so much disarray is how you guys are thinking of both Halo multiplayer and its players. It's discouraging to someone who likes the game to see its developers talk about it the way they did at GDC or represent it by an inappropriate sign (which Mr. Homles later apologized for). Still, the rest of the words behind the Multiplayer experience then and elsewhere say all that needs to be said. You're building a game that few Halo players can enjoy by changing or removing what kept them playing. Halo has always been accessible, but by limiting the very things that made it so, you're achieving the exact opposite.

As a 10 year Halo fan, I implore each individual at 343 to realize something - Halo doesn't need to compete with the market. Halo doesn't need to evolve; it already had when it first came out, and that's what set it apart. Halo is the game that I can travel across states to play in LANs. It's the game that I can co-op with my brother for 24 hours straight. It's the game where if you were good at it, you sure as hell were good. It's the game where you can play whatever the hell you want in custom games because of the massive amount of tools available to you.

Halo is different for everyone, but what Halo isn't is a follower. It's important for everyone to understand that they don't need the mainstream shooter audience in their game to make bank. There are a lot of Halo fans and we will buy and play the game for years if you prioritize support for the community's true desires. For example, a community feature as imperative as File Share is a Day 1 thing, not something we should be waiting for 3 months later. Because honestly, in the age of "quick", 3 months is an eternity to be prevented from sharing content with players. Without content sharing, Reach would have dropped off the map sooner.

What 343 needs to grasp while making Halo 5 is that the community makes the game. The community will make it accessible by teaching others or developing different gametypes and maps. The community will be the ones supporting the game for 3-5 years. The community from the forgers and machinimakers all the way to the campaign and multiplayer players all need to be paid attention to. We know you want to build games you like, but realize that alienating the fanbase in the process is not the compromise we can offer.

If you can show us that you can truly work with the community, let it be known here that I promise to support you once again and stand by your side. I know you guys can do it, but you are treating us like children and telling us we want Halo to be like other shooters. The Halo community just wants a good Halo game, and that starts with keeping what made it great, not by stripping that away from it. Do that, and you will have your CoD killer. Because we will fucking kill it for you.
Great post
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
It actually took me a second to remember that Bumper Jumper is A to sprint.. I wish I could say I notice it. I'm part of the problem.
 
Holy shit I am watching the 343 GDC talk and am seriously shocked at the reasons that Josh thinks the Didact didnt work.

I read the books, I read the extended fiction, I dont feel like I missed a bit of the story - the Didact just wasn't that great in game.

Playing a game like Bioshock and then watching this post mortem on Halo's story is just shocking - they just don't get it.

The more I watch the more I take offence with.

Yeah unfortunately from what I've heard from Frank and Josh about their narrative strategies, I disagree with them. A lot.
 
Disagree, the BTB playlist was bad.

Of course, that's cause I hate BTB.

Without Anni BTB, there are 2 maps that are almost impossible to get in matchmaking. They might be in snipers or something but good luck getting a match in BTB.

The gametypes weren't the greatest (the goes for all of Reach BTB) but I still mostly enjoyed it. If only 50 people were to remain in the playlist today I'd probably be one of them.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that removing the playlist makes annie achievements a pain to get.
EDIT 2: Reworded first sentence
 
Finally tried out Forge Island, it's cool and larger than I thought. Though, unless we get some great Forge creations into MM, it's going to be useless. The Waypoint CC need to start looking for creations and make a Forge Island specific playlists to test them.
 

Redford

aka Cabbie
You realize that we have 2 maps that are almost impossible to play in Reach MM now, right? They might be in snipers or something but good luck getting a match in BTB.

The gametypes weren't the greatest (the goes for all of Reach BTB) but I still mostly enjoyed it. If only 50 people were to remain in the playlist today I'd probably be one of them.

PMs.
 
Why can March Madness live streaming work completely fine here at work but twitch.tv a site dedicated to streaming cant figure out how to stream to worse bandwidths?

In 2013.

Now I sit at work watching basketball cause theres no actual work to be done... Happy EASTER!
 
...

I actually like the idea of the Hacker.

Fell asleep before I could acknowledge this last night. Couple of Hacker fun facts:

-Their visor's similar to the Wetworks one, which looses a typical "scanning beam" in a linear fashion. You have to be caught in it to make them berserk.

-It's entirely possible to avoid fighting them in later encounters, though the first one forces them to berserk.

-I took a bit of inspiration from Overdoziz on creating them. A fight with a Hacker is supposed to feel like the final Chieftan fight on The Ark mixed with the final scene with the Tyrannosaurus in the original Land Before Time. It's often easiest to give Hackers "Disney deaths" by luring them into traps or knocking them off edges than just pumping bullets into them.

-To make sure fights aren't overwhelming, all Promethean units will focus on other targets until either you or the Hacker dies.

-If you damage a Chief Hacker's weapon arm enough, it'll fall off, allowing you to duel it.

-In co-op, Hackers only focus on the target they scanned. They'll avoid other Spartans, or casually murder them if they get too close.

-If you somehow assassinate a Hacker in a duel, it has the flashiest animation in the entire sandbox - three of them, actually, depending on whether it's ground-to-ground, air-to-ground, or air-to-air. Each vignette lasts about 15 seconds and is in first-person. You lose your shields and some health performing these animations, but don't worry.

-Killing a Hacker with some kind of melee attack will make all Promethean enemies retreat by teleporting out of the battlefield, meaning it's vital to ending some encounters painlessly.

-Hackers are meant to have unconventional movement in three dimensions. Their multiple limbs, comparatively limber frame, and use of antigravity tech allows them to scale or run on walls, cling to ceilings, and even take grand leaps with relative ease. If they're chasing a target at a higher elevation, they'll engage in a terrifying, spider-like wall-running animation using all six of their limbs. This is further bolstered by the fact that their respective Watcher gives them Speed Boost, of all things.

-Hackers and Dreadlocks have a symbiotic relationship. Dreadlocks can bombard you out of cover from range, while Hackers can close in for the kill. Dreadlocks have "Spotter Watchers," which they use to guide their turret fire. However, if a Hacker is in the vicinity when a Spotter sees you, it'll berserk automatically.
 
Finally tried out Forge Island, it's cool and larger than I thought. Though, unless we get some great Forge creations into MM, it's going to be useless. The Waypoint CC need to start looking for creations and make a Forge Island specific playlists to test them.
343i should force players to download ForgeIsland to play Matchmaking.
 

FyreWulff

Member
I imagine when Forge Island maps start being processed, you're going to start seeing Forge Island be a required download. I mean, it's free and you need an HDD to play Halo 4 multiplayer anyway..
 

Obscured

Member
Can you provide a justification why I'm absolutely wrong?

From my viewpoint, I don't know what problem the split intends to solve. It's a bandaid solution.

Are higher skilled players ruining lower skilled players constantly? Then you need to improve your skill matching system. Doesn't matter if it's visible or invisible.

Are players not figuring out how to play? Improve your training system. Implement bots so people can learn the mechanics in the game at their own pace and without the anxiety of throwing themselves into the pits of Xbox Live. Make all aspects discoverable.

Are players winning because they're bothing to google more meta-game tricks? Aggressively patch out exploits and balance-changing bugs.

All the ranked/social split does is kinda sorta wall off the different styles from each other, but it has downsides.

- You split the potential playerbase, impacting search times. Because some want a number and some don't.

- Since Team Slayer is pretty much the only gametype that can support being split, then lists either end up being Ranked or Social. You have everyone in one list now, but the people that don't want to screw with ranks won't play, or it negatively affects the playlist from boosting. Example: I still think that making Team SWAT ranked in Halo 3 was something I wouldn't have done, because I liked SWAT and wanted to play 2 Flag SWAT but had to stop because I spent every other game getting bridged out or standby'd. If SWAT had been made social like it was as a DEXP, it would have had a much bigger population and been a lot more.. normal.

- It tends to end up being used to mark 'no guests' and 'guests allowed here' which is why Team Doubles ended up ranked in Halo 3. So you solve one problem but inherit a bunch of others at the same time.


So what needs to happen is this:

- Improve the skillmatch system to keep serioustime players playing serioustime players and more casual players rarely play against them.

- Make the system match parties with guests versus parties with guests.

- Force party vs party and randoms versus randoms across the board. Halo Wars does this extremely well and I think it's probably why it's population is so relatively healthy for what the game is on the platform that it's on: in Halo Wars, randoms can't play parties. At all. Which means randoms don't get roflstomped by partied lifers and parties expect to go up against organized opponents. Trueskill gets to do it's thing with minimum of interference.

They've had the ability to do it since at LEAST Reach but I swear Halo 3 could do it too, but I'd like to see them try a Team Mercenaries at least once. Max Party Size 1, 4v4 or 5v5. Just please 343. Once.

- An option would be to have a ranking system in the game but make it so you can opt in or opt out. A long time ago I did this as a joke but since then I've actually wanted the option to hide ranks from the UI so I could just be oblivious to my current rank. You'd have ranks in-game, but since you'd have to opt in, you can only see the ranks of other people that have opted in. It's still tracked for all players regardless. Kind of a bandaid solution though.

This makes a lot of sense, and see things in much the same way. I probably split my time half and half between having a party or going in solo so the idea of a mercenaries type playlist resonates strongly with me.

The one thing I think ranked/unranked does do is give an easy shorthand for people, but doesn't actually do much to address any problems in an effective way as Fyrewulf described.

And if you do go ranked why just 1-50? I've read the TrueSkill documentation before but from what I've experienced there is not enough granularity. Why not 1-100 (did Arena not do well because it was terrible or because it wasn't using a familiar nomenclature)? I'd rather see a moving range as opposed to cyclic reset, but I don't know if that is a reasonable approach. Also a k/a/d, w/l, and maybe solo/party and objective time/score by gametype instead of overall stats. For any kind of social or training playlist I'd like stats to only be private.
 
If this was any other Halo game I'd say no, I dont want to be forced to play those garbage Forge maps. However Halo 4 maps are so big and bad sure, make Forge Island required once good remakes are made and incorporated.

Warlock n Sanctuary remakes now.
 

Rev3rb

Member
Has anyone tested the splitscreen FPS of a forge island custom map yet?

The simplicity and optimization of forge island make me optimistic.
 
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