Poor Catherine Halsey. Don’t get me wrong, she’s a monster. A war criminal. A woman who kidnapped and killed children because she thought the ends justified the means. But then we come along and chop off her arm simply because we wanted a spot of ambiguity in her final line. In the original draft, she was shot, but in one piece. Jul asked her what she wanted, she said, “Revenge” and everyone knew she meant on Palmer and the crew of Infinity. But we didn’t want that. Halsey is a woman who is always saying two things at once. To end on a note from her that was so clearly defined just felt wrong.
It's kind of weird because now we technically have two Halo games now that ended with something being used to blow up a sun.
Halo 1: Blow up Installation 04
Halo 2: Only Halo where the installation we go to doesn't get blown up (Delta Halo)
Halo 3: Blow up Installation 00 and Installation 04 (again)
Wars: Blow up a sun to destroy a Shield world Reach: Blow up the crashed Forerunner ship
4: Blow up Didact's Ship with a nuke
4 SPOPS: Blow up the Shield World, destroying the sun
What? The only ship I remember blowing up was a Covenant one in Long Night Of Solace.... Foreunner's weren't even involved in Halo:Reach? What are you talking about? Or am I just confused?
What? The only ship I remember blowing up was a Covenant one in Long Night Of Solace.... Foreunner's weren't even involved in Halo:Reach? What are you talking about? Or am I just confused?
Do we really need another separate playlist for Extraction? Wouldn't adding it to Objective be enough? I know Objective's population isn't doing so hot but it adding another separate Objective mode really going to help that?
Looks like the Extraction variant they're using for the playlist is the default, not the Throwdown variant (see: 45 seconds vs. 60 seconds to extract). If it has multiple sites active at once like the default does, that's...unfortunate, as the default Extraction variant is one of the most passive gametypes I've seen - something the Throwdown variant definitely isn't. Still, can't help but think that Extraction should be in Team Objective, pushing Team Regicide out in the process (if not now, then soon). At this rate, I'm not sure if TO will be around much longer. Yesterday's peak was below 1k players. I think not having Flag in the mix as a staple hurt its perception.
TO is a poor idea. People want to play a specific gametype most of the time. King and Oddball both did better separate than combined.
That said looking forward to Extraction. I had quite a bit of fun with it in the Majestic playlist the other day, nice gametype. Can we haz a map list for the playlist.
That said, I won't be surprised if Extraction rolls into TO at some point. Shame to see the focused, low playlist count matchmaking vision die though, we'll be up to 15 playlists on Monday.
I will admit at first I was like "why one gametype per playlist? The old way was better"
Then I realized that yeah, I kinda actually just wanted to play KotH and being able to go in and just play KotH was awesome.
I think there could be a hybrid of both types now, but hopefully eventually KotH and Ball and CTF get returned to their own playlists. When they tend to be their own experience, they do better than when they're put together.
It's kind of weird because now we technically have two Halo games now that ended with something being used to blow up a sun.
Halo 1: Blow up Installation 04
Halo 2: Only Halo where the installation we go to doesn't get blown up (Delta Halo)
Halo 3: Blow up Installation 00 and Installation 04 (again)
Wars: Blow up a sun to destroy a Shield world
Reach: Blow up the crashed Forerunner ship
4: Blow up Didact's Ship with a nuke
4 SPOPS: Blow up the Shield World, destroying the sun
TO is a poor idea. People want to play a specific gametype most of the time. King and Oddball both did better separate than combined.
That said looking forward to Extraction. I had quite a bit of fun with it in the Majestic playlist the other day, nice gametype. Can we haz a map list for the playlist.
That said, I won't be surprised if Extraction rolls into TO at some point. Shame to see the focused, low playlist count matchmaking vision die though, we'll be up to 15 playlists on Monday.
A couple things: The last time King was around, it was peaking at under 1500 players. Having said that, the total peak population then was twice what it is now (120k vs. 60k). Objective is currently tracking the same as Oddball was when it was cut, at close to 1k players peak, but with a slightly smaller gamewide population during peak times. So yeah, King+Oddball+Team Regicide's cumulative population was higher, but as a singular playlist Objective is doing better as a percentage of the total population than any of them alone at the ends of their lives. Additionally, I think Throwdown and Majestic probably cannibalized a significant portion of that population since their debut days started a downward trend (offset slightly by challenge bumps). They offer a similar experience for that relatively small audience.
As an alternative to King or Oddball not being available in matchmaking at all like we saw happening (Team Regicide was on the chopping block as well with its end-of-life population), I'll take Team Objective existing any day of the week. It isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but at least everything has a home somewhere. Though now that Throwdown exists, I'm not sure it has as much of a place as it did when it debuted. Team Regicide could easily be integrated somewhere else, King is in Throwdown as a better variant, and you could probably reinstate an Oddball playlist, though I suspect it'd be dead within a month.
Sigh, the justification for what they think of/what they've done to Halsey makes me think 343 lives in some ivory tower. Halsey kidnapped children, creating clones that died. Sure many children died. They would have died anyway when the Covenant invaded Reach.
Humanity is in a galactic war and handily losing, what do you expect?
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Just how many children and people were saved because of the Spartan program?
Whatever, they can sit and laugh. Their justification for how they wanted to end Spartan Ops proves how incompetent and inept 343 are. Keep circle jerking each other, writing about how hard it was to make a studio, how you're so proud of the best selling halo game.
You should also be proud that you shipped the least played halo game, the critically lowest ranked halo game, the Halo game that has driven off more passionate fans than any other. The game that has severely affected many communities from speed run, forge, machinima etc.
Whatever, they can sit and laugh. Their justification for how they wanted to end Spartan Ops proves how incompetent and inept 343 are. Keep circle jerking each other, writing about how hard it was to make a studio, how you're so proud of the best selling halo game.
You should also be proud that you shipped the least played halo game, the critically lowest ranked halo game, the Halo game that has driven off more passionate fans than any other. The game that has severely affected many communities from speed run, forge, machinima etc.
Sigh, the justification for what they think of/what they've done to Halsey makes me think 343 lives in some ivory tower. Halsey kidnapped children, creating clones that died. Sure many children died. They would have died anyway when the Covenant invaded Reach.
Humanity is in a galactic war and handily losing, what do you expect?
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Just how many children and people were saved because of the Spartan program?
Whatever, they can sit and laugh. Their justification for how they wanted to end Spartan Ops proves how incompetent and inept 343 are. Keep circle jerking each other, writing about how hard it was to make a studio, how you're so proud of the best selling halo game.
You should also be proud that you shipped the least played halo game, the critically lowest ranked halo game, the Halo game that has driven off more passionate fans than any other. The game that has severely affected many communities from speed run, forge, machinima etc.
I also like how no one in the Halo universe cares about the 600+ children who were sent on suicide missions as part of the SIII program just because they 'agreed' to do so
So I get on MLG Reach for a couple of matches while my 'puter downloads some stuff and a modder is in the second lobby I join... we all had DMRs shooting sniper rounds. FUN.
Sigh, the justification for what they think of/what they've done to Halsey makes me think 343 lives in some ivory tower. Halsey kidnapped children, creating clones that died. Sure many children died. They would have died anyway when the Covenant invaded Reach.
Humanity is in a galactic war and handily losing, what do you expect?
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Just how many children and people were saved because of the Spartan program?
Whatever, they can sit and laugh. Their justification for how they wanted to end Spartan Ops proves how incompetent and inept 343 are. Keep circle jerking each other, writing about how hard it was to make a studio, how you're so proud of the best selling halo game.
You should also be proud that you shipped the least played halo game, the critically lowest ranked halo game, the Halo game that has driven off more passionate fans than any other. The game that has severely affected many communities from speed run, forge, machinima etc.
Whatever, they can sit and laugh. Their justification for how they wanted to end Spartan Ops proves how incompetent and inept 343 are. Keep circle jerking each other, writing about how hard it was to make a studio, how you're so proud of the best selling halo game.
You should also be proud that you shipped the least played halo game, the critically lowest ranked halo game, the Halo game that has driven off more passionate fans than any other. The game that has severely affected many communities from speed run, forge, machinima etc.
If Frankie made the decision, I think the plot relevance is pretty clear.
Armed only with his cleaning supplies, Hamish Beamish got abandoned on Requiem during the first Promethean encounter and became a Promethean Chieftan. It wasn't Requiem that caused the sun to supernova. It was Hamish Beamish deciding he was tired of the physical realm and ascending to godhood, to be described in further detail in Halo 5.
Some say that following the jump, the faint aroma of Clorox and burnt hair haunted the Infinity's decks.
They just killed off Halsey and Cortana? I was expecting some Master Chief meeting up with Halsey in Halo 5, but judging by what's being said I guess that's not happening. (I haven't finished Spartan Ops myself, haven't even downloaded the new material for Spartan Ops yet)
They just killed off Halsey and Cortana? I was expecting some Master Chief meeting up with Halsey in Halo 5, but judging by what's being said I guess that's not happening. (I haven't finished Spartan Ops myself, haven't even downloaded the new material for Spartan Ops yet)
Its kinda weird.. its like they are systematically killing off most Bungie created characters and plot points. While it is probably not on purpose, I still think they are almost a little too adamant about creating their own vision for Halo. Things like the existence of Spartan IVs, etc, just feel...off. I hope they take a look at things and try to find what made Spartans so appealing in the past.. I did not like the direction they went with the Spartan Ops story at all. Its also frustrating- I feel like Halo 3 might as well never have happened, because as far I can tell the Covenant are back in full strength. I know the explanation they created, but I just don't buy it. It feels too forced, like an excuse to keep them as the enemy.
Its kinda weird.. its like they are systematically killing off most Bungie created characters and plot points. While it is probably is on purpose, I still think they are almost a little too adamant about creating their own vision for Halo. Things like the existence of Spartan IVs, etc, just feel...off. I hope they take a look at things and try to find what made Spartans so appealing in the past.. I did not like the direction they went with the Spartan Ops story at all. Its also frustrating- I feel like Halo 3 might as well never have happened, because as far I can tell the Covenant are back in full strength. I know the explanation they created, but I just don't buy it. It feels too forced, like an excuse to keep them as the enemy.
This is how you type a post without coming off as a jerkbutt.
100% agree and I made a slight edit. Those kind of things are on purpose because it's by design. It's why they changed the looked of the Covenant species and the look of the UNSC. Years from now Bungie's Halo games will seem like distant relics as people who haven't followed Halo's history will question "why does everything look/feel so different?"
Not to appear disrespectful to 343 as I'm just sharing my personal feelings on the matter, but all that stuff about being hardcore Halo fans doing Halo justice was bologna. This was easily the most poorly managed Halo to date.
I also like how no one in the Halo universe cares about the 600+ children who were sent on suicide missions as part of the SIII program just because they 'agreed' to do so
A couple things: The last time King was around, it was peaking at under 1500 players. Having said that, the total peak population then was twice what it is now (120k vs. 60k). Objective is currently tracking the same as Oddball was when it was cut, at close to 1k players peak, but with a slightly smaller gamewide population during peak times. So yeah, King+Oddball+Team Regicide's cumulative population was higher, but as a singular playlist Objective is doing better as a percentage of the total population than any of them alone at the ends of their lives. Additionally, I think Throwdown and Majestic probably cannibalized a significant portion of that population since their debut days started a downward trend (offset slightly by challenge bumps). They offer a similar experience for that relatively small audience.
As an alternative to King or Oddball not being available in matchmaking at all like we saw happening (Team Regicide was on the chopping block as well with its end-of-life population), I'll take Team Objective existing any day of the week. It isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but at least everything has a home somewhere. Though now that Throwdown exists, I'm not sure it has as much of a place as it did when it debuted. Team Regicide could easily be integrated somewhere else, King is in Throwdown as a better variant, and you could probably reinstate an Oddball playlist, though I suspect it'd be dead within a month.
So I don't want to hijack this topic, but I want to reach as many Halo communities as possible with this:
I started a Halo 4 Survey ("The months after") because I am a big Halo fan and think Halo 4 still has much more potential. I was kind of surprised with the tremendous support from all Halo communities.
I was hoping you can miss a few minutes to complete this survey. The more people participate, the bigger our chances are for getting 343 to notice this!
Here is the survey. Of course I will share a summary and the results here!
Honestly I am pretty tired of this "but does the ends justify the means?" crap too. I wish we just got UNSC & Arbiter vs The Storm & Didact. The internal struggle stuff in the UNSC just isn't working too well :/
I do still think 343 can do something great but they are going to have to do a damn good job with Halo 5.
If my post came off as slightly rude, you're right. But there is 'absolutely nothing the fuck wrong with me'. I just had to post after reading that shit in the bulletin.
Believe me I kept erasing my post when it got too bad. There was nothing wrong with what I said. This is the Halo community thread. Not the 343 fans or Halo 4 thread.
I'm just a junior, and I have no say/pull, but I'm a decade long Halo fan and I can at least speak my mind when I disagree strongly with something.
And I was seriously debating on whether or not to say this, but I think a lot of the problems with Halo also have to do with the fact that a former community manager at Bungie, is put in charge as the franchise director. Someone like a Marcus Lehto, John Howard, Jason Jones, that's someone who should lead the franchise. Frankie was to Halo, what BS Angel is to Halo 4, or what Urk/DeeJ are to Destiny.
I know I'll probably regret writing it, but it's what I've been thinking since the day 343 took over. Is there anyone there that actually plays/understands Halo? Of course they hired talented games designers/developers. But everything I see and hear, is counter to their public persona they were fans of the franchise. Their community managers talk of hiding with camo in a match. The lead designer talks about speed boost being OP in CTF but it's there because it's fun. They say infinity represents the classic halo experience. That post by CliffyB was spot on about sequels though. Sure 343 got the praise from Penny Arcade and IGN, but what did they get from their most passionate fans? Anyways, I shouldn't post more tonight, I'll probably get a lot of hate for this.
Honestly I am pretty tired of this "but does the ends justify the means?" crap too. I wish we just got UNSC & Arbiter vs The Storm & Didact. The internal struggle stuff in the UNSC just isn't working too well :/
I do still think 343 can do something great but they are going to have to do a damn good job with Halo 5.
If my post came off as slightly rude, you're right. But there is 'absolutely nothing the fuck wrong with me'. I just had to post after reading that shit in the bulletin.
Believe me I kept erasing my post when it got too bad. There was nothing wrong with what I said. This is the Halo community thread. Not the 343 fans or Halo 4 thread.
I'm just a junior, and I have no say/pull, but I'm a decade long Halo fan and I can at least speak my mind when I disagree strongly with something.
And I was seriously debating on whether or not to say this, but I think a lot of the problems with Halo also have to do with the fact that a former community manager at Bungie, is put in charge as the franchise director. Someone like a Marcus Lehto, John Howard, Jason Jones, that's someone who should lead the franchise. Frankie was to Halo, what BS Angel is to Halo 4, or what Urk/DeeJ are to Destiny.
I know I'll probably regret writing it, but it's what I've been thinking since the day 343 took over. Is there anyone there that actually plays/understands Halo? Of course they hired talented games designers/developers. But everything I see and hear, is counter to their public persona they were fans of the franchise. Their community managers talk of hiding with camo in a match. The lead designer talks about speed boost being OP in CTF but it's there because it's fun. They say infinity represents the classic halo experience. That post by CliffyB was spot on about sequels though. Sure 343 got the praise from Penny Arcade and IGN, but what did they get from their most passionate fans? Anyways, I shouldn't post more tonight, I'll probably get a lot of hate for this.
I think you just need to chill a bit, man. Not in like a 'your opinions aren't valid and your voice shouldn't be heard' kind of way at all, like a 'yeah, you might regret posting stuff if you keep doing it while angry' way.
If my post came off as slightly rude, you're right. But there is 'absolutely nothing the fuck wrong with me'. I just had to post after reading that shit in the bulletin.
Believe me I kept erasing my post when it got too bad. There was nothing wrong with what I said. This is the Halo community thread. Not the 343 fans or Halo 4 thread.
I'm just a junior, and I have no say/pull, but I'm a decade long Halo fan and I can at least speak my mind when I disagree strongly with something.
And I was seriously debating on whether or not to say this, but I think a lot of the problems with Halo also have to do with the fact that a former community manager at Bungie, is put in charge as the franchise director. Someone like a Marcus Lehto, John Howard, Jason Jones, that's someone who should lead the franchise. Frankie was to Halo, what BS Angel is to Halo 4, or what Urk/DeeJ are to Destiny.
I know I'll probably regret writing it, but it's what I've been thinking since the day 343 took over. Is there anyone there that actually plays/understands Halo? Of course they hired talented games designers/developers. But everything I see and hear, is counter to their public persona they were fans of the franchise. Their community managers talk of hiding with camo in a match. The lead designer talks about speed boost being OP in CTF but it's there because it's fun. They say infinity represents the classic halo experience. That post by CliffyB was spot on about sequels though. Sure 343 got the praise from Penny Arcade and IGN, but what did they get from their most passionate fans? Anyways, I shouldn't post more tonight, I'll probably get a lot of hate for this.
Since I hadn't checked before, I looked up what Kevin Franklin did before Halo 4. Lead designer on two SOCOM games... how and why is he a lead designer at 343?
Honestly I am pretty tired of this "but does the ends justify the means?" crap too. I wish we just got UNSC & Arbiter vs The Storm & Didact. The internal struggle stuff in the UNSC just isn't working too well :/
I do still think 343 can do something great but they are going to have to do a damn good job with Halo 5.
Whats with all the talk that halsey just wanted to protect humanity and spartans were the choice with the fewest victims?
Spartans were created to fight humans, not the covenant.
Yes it was in order to reduce war-victims, but war-victims on only one side, its like saying america nuking japan was the right thing to do because that war ended at that point.
I like how they show that once a war is over you have to put the blame on somebody, nobody questions the spartans in halo because they are heroes, halsey gets all the blame while she got all the founds and support she wanted while the war was going on.
What I dont like are characters like palmer...
Yes, halsey should get punished for her crimes but let it be done by somebody who at least understands what she has done for humanity.
Since I hadn't checked before, I looked up what Kevin Franklin did before Halo 4. Lead designer on two SOCOM games... how and why is he a lead designer at 343?
Since I hadn't checked before, I looked up what Kevin Franklin did before Halo 4. Lead designer on two SOCOM games... how and why is he a lead designer at 343?
Who would you rather they hired? Cliffy B? There are only a handful of designers in the world who've worked on top drawer FPS games, and most of them are at Bungie and don't want to make Halo any more. The SOCOM games were solid shooters, and it's unlikely that it was the designer's input that stopped them being great games, it's not like he worked on Farmville or Pinball FX or something.
You can say what you like about his decisions on Halo 4, but I don't think a history on the Socom series is that bad of a CV, to be honest.
The thing I don't get is that the UNSC ordered Halsey to do all those things. It's not like she did all the spartan stuff in secret. The UNSC pretty much gave her the planet Reach for her project. Why are they mad at her now?I get they don't appreciate Halsey going AWOL in first strike and kidnapping Kelly in the process, but the whole child abducting monster angle isn't really necessary.
I'm guessing, when Spartan Ops, hell Halo 4 in general was a hopeful product and exciting.. that having Requiem destroyed at the end was a satisfying finish that would give the story "importance".
I..
So much for Requiem. So much for Halo 4.
Is this an attempt to reach a stage where they can tell the story which the opening cinematic implied they want to tell? That they wanted to send all the Forerunner conflict out with a "bang" and be rid of the Legendary Halo 3 ending implication?
Is this a big play to have the UNSC turn on the Chief so that while his combat ability can't falter, that emotionally he can, so they can give him a "rise" to become heroic again? That this is the story they're interested in telling, not an alien focused one?
No, surely not, I think that's way too tin foil hat-y that they'd go about it in such a manner. Right?
I mean tell the story you want to tell, but don't do it by chiselling your way through the established universe.
For me what was years of excitement, curiosity and pondering in the shower has turned into being unable to look away with a horrified expression on my face.
I feel bad when I think of 343'ers reading this, or any of my 'this is how disappointing Halo 4 is and why' posts. But I have to try honestly express how I feel about it and Halo right now.
Oni and Halsey can be considered monsters, and likely would be if they were real organisations and people, especially if you have the ONI marketing machine telling everyone how to think about Halsey.
In fact, why put Laskey in charge if they couldn't be confident he'd follow orders regarding Halsey?
Man...
Halsey's heel turn just doesn't make sense to me. She went to the UNSC/ONI and pitched the idea of the Spartan Program, they signed off on it and gave her the mammoth budget. They knew the target was to end the insurrection, you can't blame Halsey for it.
I bet Hitler didn't come up with the concept of the gas chambers, that would have been some scientist that no-one has ever heard of, but we, rightly, blame Hitler for the atrocities, because he was in charge, he signed off on it.
