Team AR's on Valhalla.
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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved
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Team AR's on Valhalla.
That's the definition of BAD storytelling, when you cannot explain what the hell is going on, without relying on outside sources. Say what you will about Bungie games, but I didn't need to read comics, books, watch live action series' to have a semblance of what's going on.
CJ, you just stated while you didn't think the storytelling was bad, NONE of your friends knew who the Didact was, or why he was doing this, etc. What does that say?
You need to explain things, use prior games as the ONLY main source, or explain it in game. Instead of that useless halsey in handcuffs, bullshit, why not give that scene more depth?
Say what you will about Reach (2010) retconning a book that was written in 2001 on Microsoft orders, and yes the book was great, but Reach was polished, had a self contained story. The only real questions were what happens next, or why did this happen/could stuff be prevented?
If there is one thing Frankie understands when reading my posts, it needs to be that halo 5 better ONLY draw on things from Halo 4. I shouldn't need to read the next few books or whatever else is planned to understand the game. And if it's not possible, explain Wtf happened so that the story is entirely self contained.
The Henery
Member
Literally nobody has said that you turd.
EagleBurnn
Banned
You're ranting by agreeing with me? I said that not explaining the story was their notable mistake.
I love "when" instead of "if". Implying that he's definitely going to read what you type and not scroll past it is adorable.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Oh you're right, it says a lot, but the issue wasn't the story itself, but how they implemented it into the game. I think on paper the story was well-written (which was what is being discussed here) but they chopped it up when adding it to the game (terminals, cutting room floor, etc) which made it terribly confusing and underwhelming to non-Halo fiction fans.
It frustrated me because I read most of Cryptum and the Didact is actually a neat character and not just "#1 bad guy" but none of that is conveyed in the game. He shows up and my friends (Giant Bomb talked about this as well) were like "Who the hell is this? Why is he bad? What's that ball thing? Why was he in it? who's the Librarian? What's this got to do with Halo rings?"
The story is there, they just need to tell the background better and not chop up the script when they put it in the game. Ops has done a better job, but that's because it has 10 cutscenes.
That's assuming of course if the next xbox even accepts used games.
squidhands
Member
If Frankie pulled the ending out of his butt in a throwaway comment, they should have just let him write the story to begin with. I like his style in what little I've read from him, and given enough thought it almost certainly would have been better than the extremely poor story and gameplay that we got. The prospect of a season two is not exciting me in the slightest if the mode continues at all the way it was presented to us. When the best part of Spartan Ops is the cutscenes, it's time to re-evaluate everything about it. Hell, if this was the most expensive game made to date, why not funnel some of that cash towards a writer(s) with a proven track record in the sci-fi genre, like Warren Ellis or the demi-god that is Grant Morrison.
Looking forward to seeing Halsey's new bionic arm, though. Since 343 has put her in 'revenge' mode, maybe they can throw in some weaponized attachments that can be swapped out on an as-needed basis. Throw in an eyepatch as well, make the heel turn complete.
RIP Firefight
ElRenoRaven
Member
Why is everyone talking about a game that doesn't exist? There is no Halo 4. The Franchise ended with Reach.
Quit making up games that don't exist damn it!
Quit making up games that don't exist damn it!
I love how you think so highly of yourself just because you're not a junior and that this your second account on NeoGAF. It's so adorable trying to justify a second account by saying you forgot the password/email to your first one. Quit acting like you run HaloGAF because you went from hardly posting to being one of the most frequent posters here.
And why wouldn't Frankie read my posts? If he visits HaloGAF, he'd probably read it. I don't agree with some people but I try and read every single post, whether or not it's one of substance.
And FYI, saying the storytelling was decent but then saying they need to explain things better, means the storytelling is bad, not decent.
BlueScrote
Member
Frankie wrote the short story in evolutions about one marine on a ship taken over by the covenant I think. That one was really good.
If people think Halo 4's story is confusing, I don't think Warren Ellis or Morrison would help in the least.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Leave being sarcastic to people who are good at it.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
As a marketing/PR-schooled dude I am, however, confused at why they would tell a story in the bulletin that shows they had no idea how to write Spartan Ops. It doesn't do anything to make people like it more, and it gives those who disliked the story more ammo to be like "see? they just pulled it out of their ass!" Which it sounds like they did.
Odd choice there.
Odd choice there.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
343 killed off Hasley? I haven't downloaded Spartan Ops Season 2... I don't know what happens. Didn't know Requiem was ran into the sun, and Hasley maybe died.
Y u so mad tho?
No need to download, you can just go here and watch all the episodes to catch up. Nothing of any real significance happens during the gameplay portions.
ElRenoRaven
Member
It really doesn't. I really just don't know who in their right mind would go ok tell a story that makes us look worse. I applaud it's honesty but from a business standpoint it's not the most wise thing to do.
Hypertrooper
Member
So you are saying the coolest looking Master Chief does not exist? That's heresy! Yes. I love Halo 4's Chief.
YourExWife
Member
No one has.
BlueScrote
Member
I think my biggest issue was that the story the cinematics told synced up very loosely with the actual gameplay segments.
The gameplay "objectives" were mostly interchangable with what was going on in the cinematics.
The Henery
Member
So, I was playing the Microsoft published game Halo 4, developed by 343. Then several players on Skyline CTF decided to use jetpacks with AR's, often in tandem. I am no longer playing the Microsoft published game Halo 4, developed by 343. Cause and effect.
P.S Jetpack and AR on Skyline is the new jetpack and AR on The Cage. Now with stronger AR and 3 explosive perk nades!
P.S Jetpack and AR on Skyline is the new jetpack and AR on The Cage. Now with stronger AR and 3 explosive perk nades!
ElRenoRaven
Member
Mark VI Chief the best Chief. That is closely followed by the Mark V.
squidhands
Member
That's the only other Halo story I've read besides the Fall of Reach.
I never had an issue with the story being confusing, but I do wish it was told better. I don't know if it's the overall story or if it's the gameplay/enemy encounters, but past Halos have always drawn me back into multiple replays of their campaigns time and time again. I have no such compunction in Halo 4, which is a real shame. I enjoyed parts of it, but not enough to want to slog through the bad stuff that overwhelms my opinion of the campaign.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
I still think what hurts most about Halo 4 is the fact that the entire game was a bait and switch. 343 never said or showed anything other than "IT FEELS LIKE HALO" and "TRUST US" the entire time. Up untill November 6 343 never really gave us any info.
Litterally, all the info we got showing the game for what it is was given to us by third party sources. We only found out about Perks, Load Outs, Armor Abilites, etc, from Game Informer, and from a leak. About 5 months from launch. We found out about Ordance Drops from an MLG Pro who playtested Halo 4, claiming he was allowed to order a Power Weapon after a few kills. This was also really close to launch.
All this, while all 343 did was claim "Guys, we're 343! We got this! Trust us!" and only showing Campaign footage mostly. When they did show multiplayer, it was so distorted and nothing like the real game. Just a BR fight on what we found out to be Haven. No Armor Abilites. No Ordanance Drops. No load outs. No Bolt Shot. No +10 KILL! Real medals. It looked so perfect. This was also about 4-5 months from launch.
343 basically mislead and lied to the fanbase, all the way till Launch. All the way to the Bank. I think that hurt the most. Most of us didn't expect Halo 4 to be like this, because they told us "IT FEELS LIKE HALO".
Even Bungie gave us a feel for Reach from a Beta. They updated us weekly with more than just "Guys, this game will be good. We're Bungie." They informed and even tried to justify Armor Lock and Bloom. Game may have been bad, but at the very least, Bungie was honest.
Litterally, all the info we got showing the game for what it is was given to us by third party sources. We only found out about Perks, Load Outs, Armor Abilites, etc, from Game Informer, and from a leak. About 5 months from launch. We found out about Ordance Drops from an MLG Pro who playtested Halo 4, claiming he was allowed to order a Power Weapon after a few kills. This was also really close to launch.
All this, while all 343 did was claim "Guys, we're 343! We got this! Trust us!" and only showing Campaign footage mostly. When they did show multiplayer, it was so distorted and nothing like the real game. Just a BR fight on what we found out to be Haven. No Armor Abilites. No Ordanance Drops. No load outs. No Bolt Shot. No +10 KILL! Real medals. It looked so perfect. This was also about 4-5 months from launch.
343 basically mislead and lied to the fanbase, all the way till Launch. All the way to the Bank. I think that hurt the most. Most of us didn't expect Halo 4 to be like this, because they told us "IT FEELS LIKE HALO".
Even Bungie gave us a feel for Reach from a Beta. They updated us weekly with more than just "Guys, this game will be good. We're Bungie." They informed and even tried to justify Armor Lock and Bloom. Game may have been bad, but at the very least, Bungie was honest.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
It does feel like Halo. 343 lied to no-one. Did they need to show more? Yes. Should they have answered more? Yes. But saying they lied and mislead? No. Also the "trust us" thing came from HaloGaf I believe.
EagleBurnn
Banned
With Majestic and Team Throwdown, this is the best Halo experience I've had since Halo 3.
Halo 2/3 are still miles better though.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I don't feel this is true or fair.
We had heard about the base facts of the horribleness, the instant respawn, the always sprint, the specializations, the personal and global ordinance, their focus on god awful infinity.
We didn't realise how bad it would be, nor how many features wouldn't make the cut.
Also, it's clear for Campaign, they tried to make a new set of Halo enemies in a very Halo-esc campaign. I'll say they didn't succeed, but it's a strong attempt to make a hella Halo game.
Also, you're implying they don't think that it feels enough like Halo or that they didn't have enough faith in themselves to say "Trust us" and therefore be lying.
Good for you.
Which is disappointing.
This is like the third time I've seen you say this. The quality of your posts should speak for you, not your junior title.
Only immature/elitist people would judge you by your junior title. Who gives a fuck about those people?
Stop undervaluing yourself.
Jetpack ARs are absolutely mind numbing on Skyline.
ElRenoRaven
Member
I do agree there. They were honest. They just weren't very forthcoming on how bad it really was. They downplayed it. I also agree. Campaign wise if it was any other game but Halo I'd say it's an ok campaign. I think with some redesigns and tweaks the Prometheans could be good enemies. Even the story would be ok if it weren't for the constant shitting on of established characters and the way they make newer ones cliche. I can say the only new Character that was actually any good was Laskey. That's the truth. They managed to turn Halsey into a cliche movie villan by the end of Spartan Ops, they managed to make you hate all the new characters but Laskey with a passion. Hell even Cortana's rampancy was a joke. They had a great story direction they could have went with it and they chickened out. It was instead whoa is me, I'm dying. Then the whole I have always wanted to do that with her touching his chest was just weird.
It had potential.
You read that part? I skipped to bravo's section
I hope multiplayer wasn't designed in a similar fashion.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
This forum is very angry at Halo 4... I understand its not what everyone wants but many people still like it. Including me.
EagleBurnn
Banned
The fuck are you talking about? No one here thinks I fucking run HaloGAF or think that I think I run it, are you kidding me? I like the community here because it's full of veteran fans who know what they're talking about.
I said what I said because it seems like you're here because of Frankie and you're always bringing up "I know I'm a Junior" and "Look, I've been lurking here for a while". Just post quality post instead of trying to forcibly justify them.
The Cortana and Master Chief relationship in Halo 4 that seemed to grow much more strongly in a "loving" type way was awkward at times.
You're right. But it's NeoGAF, there are pretty deep relationships here between people and there is a lot more scrutiny and dismissiveness of juniors.
The one thing I don't like or do, is resort to insulting people. You can personally respond to someone, back it up with previous posts, they've written etc. but there is no call for trying to be on a soapbox and acting holier than thou.
I can't believe they put it in the public domain..
"We had no idea what to do with the multiplayer. We had all of these Albert Einsteins sitting around and had no idea what to do. So then Frankie says "what if we let them spawn with a shotgun and active camo". The rest was history."
The Henery
Member
Whoa is me
Some of us did...
Probably overpowered, but it's fun!
Super disappointed that's how the SpOps story was written. And how Halseys character is being handled. She was PERFECT in reach. Smart, confident, commanding, powerful.
I hope that piece about her saying 2 things at once holds some truth. She has some other motives other then revenge.
Hydranockz
Member
What are you on about? No one gives two shits about you being a junior. No one is dismissing you because you're a junior.
If anything people are dismissing you for writing out long ass posts in a fit of rage. Remember when you said "I know I'll probably regret writing it"? That's when you should rethink your post. One could extrapolate that, over time and with more posts, ou would learn when to let your feelings take over when it comes to posting. That's about the only cling to your junior title that's relevant.
And the sad part of it all is that saying "we told you so" doesn't even bring that much satisfaction since none of us even wanted it to end up like this.
User 73706
Banned
I would like to see a buttload of Spartan Ops seasons (or more reasonably, episodes) written by different people - even gaffers. That'd be interesting.
Oh, and nobody tell Tawpgun I'm stealing his Internet.
Oh, and nobody tell Tawpgun I'm stealing his Internet.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Smaller amounts. I don't think ye'd predicted how bad it was going to be / the general community/population reaction.
I complained a lot and said how much I didn't like what I was hearing about specific things BUT I wanted to believe that I'd still find enjoyment in it and I still had a lot of hope for the Campaign, so my (and I'd hazard to speak for a good few of older HaloGAF) worries were set to cautiously wait and see.
Pretty spot on.
Franklinator
Member
The writers at 343 who wrote Spartans Ops had no idea of how it would end until they got there? And then they told everyone? Why would they do that?
Unrelated question: Why did Barrow Roll change his gamertag to FattyNoFriendz? My friends and I were playing games last night, we saw him log in, and it was hilarious.
Unrelated question: Why did Barrow Roll change his gamertag to FattyNoFriendz? My friends and I were playing games last night, we saw him log in, and it was hilarious.
The Henery
Member
Yeah but you hadn't played it so not allowed
Franklinator said:
Popped up on my notifications too, made me lol.
Kid's fat. Someone buy that gamer tag and make some money off the guy.
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