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Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved

R

Redford

aka Cabbie
IHaveIce said:
Lol this Bulletin.. No Halsey isn't a monster you idiots, do you read the books in your own franchise? ONI is the monster.

I said it already but please hire new writers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I barely know shit about the fiction but just knowing this makes the whole thing seem trite.
 
M

Madness

Member
heckfu said:
I think you just need to chill a bit, man. Not in like a 'your opinions aren't valid and your voice shouldn't be heard' kind of way at all, like a 'yeah, you might regret posting stuff if you keep doing it while angry' way.
Click to expand...

You're right. It's way too late at night, and I should read what I post better.

I apologize to Frankie. He didn't deserve what I wrote. Especially since he's a really nice guy and always posts/helps here.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
jACyE1c.png
 
O

Omni

Member
Ugh. Halsey hate makes me frustrated.

Humanity won the war and the ONLY way they were able to do so was because of the Spartan II program. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that ONI and the UNSC would be looking for a scapegoat for an action that literally won them the war.

It's like if the United States had prosecuted their own for dropping the nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the end of WII... Which would be would be completely moronic.
 
S

Shadders

Member
Genuine question, but did anyone ever have a bad word to say about the Manhattan Project scientists? They created a weapon capable of wiping entire cities off the map and I don't recall anyone ever making those scientists out to be bad guys?

Their work killed like a quarter of a million civilians, yet they were never held accountable.

The 'Halsey is evil' angle just doesn't make sense, it isn't believable.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Shadders said:
Genuine question, but did anyone ever have a bad word to say about the Manhattan Project scientists? They created a weapon capable of wiping entire cities off the map and I don't recall anyone ever making those scientists out to be bad guys?

Their work killed like a quarter of a million civilians, yet they were never held accountable.

The 'Halsey is evil' angle just doesn't make sense, it isn't believable.
Click to expand...

Nope, mostly because we won the war and propaganda engine was at an all time high. Much like the UNSC!

Also we granted the doctors that ran Unit 731 immunity (NSFL) even though they were Axis because we wanted their data.

WW2 was some dark shit all around.


Slight aside: The Germans invented the first modern Assault Rifle in WW2. Hitler named it the Storm Rifle.

In Halo 4, there's the Storm Rifle.. which is the equivalent of the Assault Rifle. In both function and name. And is used by a fanatical group.
 
O

OdysseusVA

Banned
GrizzNKev said:
Taking one last shot at this.

CHROME WARNING

http://i.minus.com/iTC9BMtdqoBnj.gif

http://i.minus.com/iQmsTlqJbOFpk.png

http://i.minus.com/ib0QSmLMceoMd6.gif

https://waypointprod.blob.core.wind...age/blogs/headlines/2013/2/28/spartanops9.jpg


http://i.minus.com/iAEYwVUAmVcgF.gif

https://waypointprod.blob.core.wind...ge/blogs/headlines/2013/2/28/spartanops10.jpg


http://i.minus.com/ibhKoAAqj0UuY3.gif

http://i.minus.com/iZTL9xsxwXVSv.png

http://i.minus.com/i72LWQY93fAMT.gif

I'm just poking fun, don't get butthurt.
Click to expand...

IE10 Didn't break a sweat. Too bad it doesn't have any extensions :/
 
B

BlueScrote

Member
GrizzNKev said:
Thanks, I just needed a little practice and the right opportunity.

On another topic, I know this echoes what people have already said many times, but I'm not hyped at all for the AC4 reveal Monday. I'm so burned out on Assassin's Creed. Give us a few years.
There's box art in the leak thread and the PS3 is getting exclusive content again.
Click to expand...

They really do need to let it rest a bit and spend some time fleshing out the gameplay more. There hasn't been any substantial change to the formula since 2, just small additions which aren't necessarily well thought out.
 
B

broony

Member
Rigest said:
So I don't want to hijack this topic, but I want to reach as many Halo communities as possible with this:

I started a Halo 4 Survey ("The months after") because I am a big Halo fan and think Halo 4 still has much more potential. I was kind of surprised with the tremendous support from all Halo communities.

I was hoping you can miss a few minutes to complete this survey. The more people participate, the bigger our chances are for getting 343 to notice this!

Here is the survey. Of course I will share a summary and the results here!
Click to expand...

Just did this,. Interested in the results.

Played the map pack for the first time last night, loved it apart from the invis users on skyline. So fucking annoying.
 
O

Omni

Member
GrizzNKev said:
Thanks, I just needed a little practice and the right opportunity.

On another topic, I know this echoes what people have already said many times, but I'm not hyped at all for the AC4 reveal Monday. I'm so burned out on Assassin's Creed. Give us a few years.
There's box art in the leak thread and the PS3 is getting exclusive content again.
Click to expand...

There's an AC4 announcement on Monday?! I really hope that it's a next-gen title only. I'm hoping the reason why AC3 was so bad was because they felt restricted by old hardware... it was just so terrible.

...

LOL. Just saw the thread...

Pirates? You're fucking kidding me, right, Ubisoft? RIP Assassin's Creed. They need to take the series back another 300-600 years. I'm sick of all the gun crap.
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
Zeouterlimits said:
Not touching the Halsey issue right now.

I'm guessing, when Spartan Ops, hell Halo 4 in general was a hopeful product and exciting.. that having Requiem destroyed at the end was a satisfying finish that would give the story "importance".

I..

So much for Requiem. So much for Halo 4.
Is this an attempt to reach a stage where they can tell the story which the opening cinematic implied they want to tell? That they wanted to send all the Forerunner conflict out with a "bang" and be rid of the Legendary Halo 3 ending implication?
Is this a big play to have the UNSC turn on the Chief so that while his combat ability can't falter, that emotionally he can, so they can give him a "rise" to become heroic again? That this is the story they're interested in telling, not an alien focused one?

No, surely not, I think that's way too tin foil hat-y that they'd go about it in such a manner. Right?

I mean tell the story you want to tell, but don't do it by chiselling your way through the established universe.

For me what was years of excitement, curiosity and pondering in the shower has turned into being unable to look away with a horrified expression on my face.

I feel bad when I think of 343'ers reading this, or any of my 'this is how disappointing Halo 4 is and why' posts. But I have to try honestly express how I feel about it and Halo right now.


Oni and Halsey can be considered monsters, and likely would be if they were real organisations and people, especially if you have the ONI marketing machine telling everyone how to think about Halsey.

In fact, why put Laskey in charge if they couldn't be confident he'd follow orders regarding Halsey?
Man...
Click to expand...

I know exactly how you feel. I've spent countless hours pondering about where the story would go after Halo 3 and who the Forerunners really were. Unfortunately, 343 has not lived up to my imagination. And the way some of those storybeats were decided does not instill me with a lot of confidence that 343 is going to do better. I can't explain what differentiates Bungie from 343 in terms of writing in terms of talent (except for the existence of Joe Staten) but I can say that it seems Bungie was purposely mysterious and never spelled out too much of the lore and was careful to not do something bombastic just for shock value. And I respect that approach more than 343's approach. Especially when this Halsey nonsense is taken in consideration.

To me it feels like the whole Halo universe is not the same that it was when Bungie was in control. The universe is no longer mysterious and the answers to those mysteries aren't as creative as I expected them to be. And you have things like the ludicrous Infinity and yet another set of Spartans. I honestly feel that the writing has gone from simple and mysterious to hackneyed and uninteresting.

Edit: I didn't mention the bulletin but it was disappointing. I was hoping that the concept of a single gametype playlist was going to be retired so the announcement of an Extraction playlist induced a groan. I was hoping they would announcement some playlist consolidations and maybe additional gametypes. Halo 4 is in dire need of some variety. I'm glad we got Doubles Pro, Rumble Pro and v2 Slayer but the game needs much more variety. I'm still hoping for the return of Neutral Flag, 1-Flag, etc.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Toa TAK said:
I don't even know why. Don't they have something planned in the long run with her? Was it always their intention to maker her out into a villain or something?

Bungie did right with the way they did her in Reach. Perfect I think.
Click to expand...

So retconning her story and presenting her as the world's biggest jerk?

Really, the "halsey hate" started with Bungie's presentation.

And Reed confirms what people who don't immediately flip out over Halsey already knew--Halsey isn't necessarily out to get revenge on the Infinity. It's supposed to be ambiguous (prolly could have chosen a better line, but it's still pretty clear.)
 
B

BlueScrote

Member
Blueblur1 said:
I know exactly how you feel. I've spent countless hours pondering about where the story would go after Halo 3 and who the Forerunners really were. Unfortunately, 343 has not lived up to my imagination. And the way some of those storybeats were decided does not instill me with a lot of confidence that 343 is going to do better. I can't explain what differentiates Bungie from 343 in terms of writing in terms of talent (except for the existence of Joe Staten) but I can say that it seems Bungie was purposely mysterious and never spelled out too much of the lore and was careful to not do something bombastic just for shock value. And I respect that approach more than 343's approach. Especially when this Halsey nonsense is taken in consideration.

To me it feels like the whole Halo universe is not the same that it was when Bungie was in control. The universe is no longer mysterious and the answers to those mysteries aren't as creative as I expected them to be. And you have things like the ludicrous Infinity and yet another set of Spartans. I honestly feel that the writing has gone from simple and mysterious to hackneyed and uninteresting.

Edit: I didn't mention the bulletin but it was disappointing. I was hoping that the concept of a single gametype playlist was going to be retired so the announcement of an Extraction playlist induced a groan. I was hoping they would announcement some playlist consolidations and maybe additional gametypes. Halo 4 is in dire need of some variety. I'm glad we got Doubles Pro, Rumble Pro and v2 Slayer but the game needs much more variety. I'm still hoping for the return of Neutral Flag, 1-Flag, etc.
Click to expand...

Doing the "mysterious" thing only works for so long though before it becomes annoying. See: Lost.

Not that I disagree with you though.
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
BlueScrote said:
Doing the "mysterious" thing only works for so long though before it becomes annoying. See: Lost.

Not that I disagree with you though.
Click to expand...
Agreed on the mystery point.

I think there's potential in the scenario, but the quality is far from where it needs to. I mean that for the Didact, Requiem, Halsey, Palmer, the lot.
 
L

Loginius

Member
I was confident that bungie would always deliver awesome story and fiction until Reach.
I loved halo 1-3 and odst but Reach made me question bungie big time, what is the point in retconning one of the best video game books that is even quoted in your 3th game if you dont even hava a better (or remotely good) story to tell?

While I dont like some of what has happened in halo 4 (and think the story in spops was kinda bad) I still think they didnt fuck up half as much as bungie did with Reach.

Halo 4 had a good story imo that could have been very good if they had fleshed out cortanas problems more and held back on the space magic.

Spops was just bad in the first half and the second half was merely damage control imo.
 
B

BlueScrote

Member
Zeouterlimits said:
Agreed on the mystery point.

I think there's potential in the scenario, but the quality is far from where it needs to. I mean that for the Didact, Requiem, Halsey, Palmer, the lot.
Click to expand...

Agreed. In order to do "ongoing mystery" well you need really excellent writers to keep the hook tantalizing while dropping morsels of information. With TV's serialized nature I think it's a bit easier. With a game series which comes out annually/bi-annually it'd probably be harder to stomach. I think a lot of more casual fans would be frustrated that it feels like the story is constant tantalization.
 
K

kylej

Banned
We couldn’t figure out how the story ended. Room full of smart people, all with storytelling skills and the resumes to prove it, and we could not tie a bow on this story in the outline stage. Then Frank O’Connor says, “Maybe Jul just drives Requiem into the sun.” And we all laughed, because that was so wonderfully absurd. A half hour later we still didn’t have an idea of how the Requiem adventure ended. Eventually we let Jul drive Requiem into the sun because, come on. That’s pretty awesome, throwing planets into suns.

Poor Catherine Halsey. Don’t get me wrong, she’s a monster. A war criminal. A woman who kidnapped and killed children because she thought the ends justified the means. But then we come along and chop off her arm simply because we wanted a spot of ambiguity in her final line. In the original draft, she was shot, but in one piece. Jul asked her what she wanted, she said, “Revenge” and everyone knew she meant on Palmer and the crew of Infinity. But we didn’t want that. Halsey is a woman who is always saying two things at once. To end on a note from her that was so clearly defined just felt wrong.

So I chopped off her arm. Now she glances at her shoulder before answering Jul’s question and you have to ask: Who does she want revenge on? Palmer? Jul? Everyone?

I wrote the words late one night around 2am. The next day in the office I pitched the idea to Halo 4 Narrative Director Armando Troisi.

“Get out of here,” Arm said. “She’s gonna be so mad.”

Yes, Armando… yes she is.
Click to expand...

...

...

I don't even care about the story and I can't believe what I just read. I'd love to know what's in those resumes that "proves" they're capable of writing a coherent narrative.

For Halo 5, dig up Steinbeck's corpse and throw it at some keyboards, the result would be better than anything 343's putting out now.
 
T

The Henery

Member
Nowise10 said:
I loved the Reach campaign so much, got like 22 days total playtime in it <3.
Click to expand...

1338951056807.gif


Tawpgun said:
ITS SO GOOD.

No more "vocal minority" People will answer questions and 343 will know, and not look at player data when it is known that everyone plays the top, default slayer playlists.
Click to expand...

Yeah well, maybe that is the way forward. Because after Cliffy B's revelation on sequels we know that developers don't make games for fans but for reviewers. Maybe that's why the last two Halo games have needed huge patches that drastically alter the way the games play 6 months+ after launch (this is assuming the next Halo 4 patch is significant). Maybe that's the way of the industry now? Prepare your launch product for reviewers (ie change for the sake of change) because if you don't you'll get an average score, your publisher will drop you (see: the Activision contract with Bungie) and consumers will overlook you without that 9.8. Then 6 months to a year later you get round to delivering the game the fans wanted.
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
The problem with Halo 4's story is that they mangled the formerly compelling characters. Cortana isn't a wise-cracking, sassy, super-brain, she's a delicate female computer princess who loves you and NEEDS you. The Didact isn't an ancient mysterious warrior with superhuman dilemmas, but a pompous supervillain hell-bent on wiping out humanity. And Spartan Ops introduced a whole cavalcade of unlikeable characters (minus the weakly-characterized Thorne, and Lasky, the one reasonable man).
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Y'all need to get off of Kevin Franklin's back. Christ. It's like a personal hate group in here. Took more than him to create the Halo 4 multiplayer experience.

As for Halo 4's campaign, I didn't hate the storytelling, they just needed to include more of the overall background in the actual game. None of my friends knew who the Didact was and they never really explain him or his motives at all, they also trap a ton of story in terminals.
 
U

User 73706

Banned
You guys realize that the Reclaimer Saga is going to be an anthology series until they get it right before they start pumping out sequels, right? Think about it. Chief wakes up from cryo and his situation means all of his adventures from here on out can just be dreams until 343 achieves universal popularity with an "episode." And, like most anthologies, it has a depressing ending.
 
P

Petrichor

Member
Wahrer Machine said:
You guys realize that the Reclaimer Saga is going to be an anthology series until they get it right before they start pumping out sequels, right? Think about it. Chief wakes up from cryo and his situation means all of his adventures from here on out can just be dreams until 343 achieves universal popularity with an "episode." And, like most anthologies, it has a depressing ending.
Click to expand...

As creatively bankrupt as this sounds - I actually wouldn't mind this being true if it meant Halo 4 being retconned.
 
E

EagleBurnn

Banned
Deadly Cyclone said:
As for Halo 4's campaign, I didn't hate the storytelling, they just needed to include more of the overall background in the actual game. None of my friends knew who the Didact was and they never really explain him or his motives at all, they also trap a ton of story in terminals.
Click to expand...

The storytelling was decent, not bad by any means. Their only notable mistake was not explaining it well to those who don't read the books. The depth of the characters (Master Chief and Cortana) in Halo 4 is also far better than what Bungie ever did. Cortana's lines and voice acting is an achievement all in itself. Master Chief being worried about Cortana and wondering if he's a human or machine (he also seems like he wants to be a machine) is interesting as well.

The mystery from the original trilogy was definitely appealing, but it's clear that 343 are more based around the characters in the universe rather than the universe itself like Bungie was.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
We should be hearing about the next COD very soon. End of 2013: COD and AC4 sell gazillions. Halo 4 gets online ranks. Elzar is still stupid. Gui is still French. Spartan Ops II is a thing.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I'm still wondering how 343/MS is going to handle no back-compat. That will completely kill off Halo 4 as soon as this fall. I'd have to assume they have something up their sleeves. I doubt they want Halo 4 done after one year.
 
E

EagleBurnn

Banned
Deadly Cyclone said:
I'm still wondering how 343/MS is going to handle no back-compat. That will completely kill off Halo 4 as soon as this fall. I'd have to assume they have something up their sleeves. I doubt they want Halo 4 done after one year.
Click to expand...

Some have been assuming that the Games on Demand and XBLA games may transfer since they're downloadable (which includes Halo 4). I wouldn't imagine it'll be too hard to save all the stats and progression since they're tied to Xbox Live.
 
T

The Henery

Member
One area I have to give 343 10/10 though, is in their trolling abilities. Camo and see through walls gamerscore achievements and a 100 AR kill weekly in the week you release your new maps? Man they really know how to do a number on the average Halo fan.

Trying to enjoy the new maps, which are gorgeous by the way and have brilliant jumps, ledges etc but every game most players are finishing with 14 or so AR kills. Totally gross.

Edit: 150 AR kills. Last week was an AR weekly so they didn't even bother to cycle the challenges.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
The Henery said:
One area I have to give 343 10/10 though, is in their trolling abilities. Camo and see through walls gamerscore achievements and a 100 AR kill weekly in the week you release your new maps? Man they really know how to do a number on the average Halo fan.

Trying to enjoy the new maps, which are gorgeous by the way and have brilliant jumps, ledges etc but every game most players are finishing with 14 or so AR kills. Totally gross.
Click to expand...
I've been forced to make a AR loadout. I fucking feel disgusted. Thanks 343.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I don't get the hate on using the AR. It's a great weapon and has many uses. Yeah I don't want to start with it, but in close nothing else compares (aside from power weapons/shotgun). I don't get why people trash anything to do with the AR. At least in Halo 4 it's not a worthless weapon.
 
A

Akai__

Member
The Henery said:
One area I have to give 343 10/10 though, is in their trolling abilities. Camo and see through walls gamerscore achievements and a 100 AR kill weekly in the week you release your new maps? Man they really know how to do a number on the average Halo fan.

Trying to enjoy the new maps, which are gorgeous by the way and have brilliant jumps, ledges etc but every game most players are finishing with 14 or so AR kills. Totally gross.

Edit: 150 AR kills. Last week was an AR weekly so they didn't even bother to cycle the challenges.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. Maps are great, but stupid gametypes, like Regicide, Infinity etc. are ruining them. And the worst part about this is, that they can't remove those gametypes, because of those dumb achievements.
 
E

EagleBurnn

Banned
I can't believe I have to deal with AR battles now. Remember the good days in Halo 3 with AR starts on small maps? I don't because the Halo 3 was perfect.

Thanks 343 for ruining Halo. Where are you Bungie? We need you to Reach in and save Halo.

CrazY CroaTia said:
Halo 3 wasn't perfect either. AR starts on pretty much every map and that in a ranked playlist...
Click to expand...

Fabalon said:
Team AR's on Valhalla.
Click to expand...

As you can see 343. You have ruined Bungie's Halo.
 
A

Akai__

Member
EagleBurnn said:
I can't believe I have to deal with AR battles now. Remember the good days in Halo 3 with AR starts on small maps? I don't because the Halo 3 was perfect.

Thanks 343 for ruining Halo. Where are you Bungie? We need you to Reach in and save Halo.
Click to expand...

Halo 3 wasn't perfect either. AR starts on pretty much every map and that in a ranked playlist...
 
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