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Halo |OT19| 793 Posts, And None Worth Reading
- Thread starter Ozzy Onya A2Z
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Syphon Filter
Member
I believe they said no killstreaks. Not sure about perks.
Thank you based Google. ;~;
Not actually mine, 7 more days until Google Fiber finally comes to me house and installs.
But the D-Pad is chrome D:
you should livestream on twitch speedy. all of halogaf will watch I promise
I always hear people saying "dammit I had a drink in my mouth!!" implying they spat it out as reactions to posts on the interwebz, and I'm just sitting there thinking... "Did they really spit their drink out?? I mean, were they actually in the middle of taking a sip of a drink when they read that post?? Or are they just exaggerating for effect?"
Tldr; Nearly ruined my phone you asshole.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
I already livestream.
Nah, too cheap to pay for Xsplit and I don't see any other good free alternatives to it.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
had to inject some humor into the situation. glad it worked.
Don't think there are any. Your Titan is basically a killstreak in a sense, and Titan's have different attributes ie. Some are faster, others have more armor etc. I think there are weapon drops and anti-Titan weapons as well. Haven't really seen too much current gameplay or pvp play to say for certain.
Prinz Eugn
Member
I already livestream.
Nah, too cheap to pay for Xsplit and I don't see any other good free alternatives to it.
Wait, how many Xbox Ones?
I already livestream.
Nah, too cheap to pay for Xsplit and I don't see any other good free alternatives to it.
Just saying, have those kind of upload speeds, and assuming you've got a good computer, your streams would be nice and crisp. OBS is a great free program, but I'll admit it is somewhat confusing to start off with. I miss Xsplit when it was in beta and it was free
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I wish Halo had a Bolt action sniper rifle.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Just another bit on the tutorials stuff, yes I've taken this too far and it's like it's own mode almost. I think it's more than just oh Halo arena is only simple FPS mechanics. Look at driving a car vs. Formula 1, much of the mechanics are the same but there is a world of difference in the skills used at the differing levels.
I'd like to see tutorials (bronze & silver) but also a more social skills mode (silver & gold) use a setup like FIFA14 I've been spouting and the friends only leaderboard stuff. Essentially pulsing highlights, paths, targets and colour coding with a calculated score based on time, mistake(s) penalties, accuracy of jumps, shots, grenades etc. Everything below uses that sort of system, just like FIFA14 does. Also use the same intro text screens that show what buttons or sequence of buttons in 1-2 pages then simply button highlights in the tutorials while running in real time.
Here's what I'm thinking to flesh it out a bit more:
As you can see you could easily devise a real mode that brings tutorials, social, scoring and a reason to elevate your skills and contest your friends. I remember the COD FBI course and playing that a shit-ton. I also visit specific skills in FIFA14 and move up from silver to gold etc as I know I'm wanting to use a certain skill in game from what I've practised.
I'd like to see tutorials (bronze & silver) but also a more social skills mode (silver & gold) use a setup like FIFA14 I've been spouting and the friends only leaderboard stuff. Essentially pulsing highlights, paths, targets and colour coding with a calculated score based on time, mistake(s) penalties, accuracy of jumps, shots, grenades etc. Everything below uses that sort of system, just like FIFA14 does. Also use the same intro text screens that show what buttons or sequence of buttons in 1-2 pages then simply button highlights in the tutorials while running in real time.
Here's what I'm thinking to flesh it out a bit more:
- Jumping
- Bronze: Simple jumps from one temporarily highlighted section to another on flat surfaces then move to elevated jumps, long jumps with a mild increase in difficulty for scoring and skills. Easy to blow through but new players get familiar with looking and moving with dual sticks.
- Silver: Complex multi jumps in multiple directions that have to be timed to the highlights, veterans will find this semi challenging.
- Gold: Full range of Halo movement with fake gun fire and grenades or mines etc so you have dynamic elements just like in campaign or multiplayer, you'll want to keep revisiting this even if a veteran to outdo your friends. Very hard to master and perfect score near impossible to attain.
- Movement ()
- Bronze: standard stuff on small maps, use teleporters or mancannons or lifts. Strafe highlights in a timed fashion. Will only really require simple dual sticks or one stick movements.
- Silver: Intermediate routes that are derived from the heatmaps style data, intrinsic learning of maps/routes with transparent enemies or simple blocks forcing dynamic movement around a map. Will require heavy use of both sticks together, some circle strafing around objects and jumps etc should be required. This should move through a range of terrain and elevations.
- Gold: Crank it up to top level, force fake gun fire, grenades, vehicle dodging, travelators (just like colossus or elongation), interactive map elements? Again very hard to master and a real treat to compete on your friends leaderboard.
- Weapons
- Bronze: Think Matrix loadup screen with all the weapons racks and firing ranges. Could be guided or dynamic as you pickup a weapon you like the look of. Teach the basics of aiming with left or right stick and the benefits of both.
- Silver: Provide fake enemies or transparent boxes (dynamic cover) that are present in a mold obstacle course, like a attacking a paintball fort. Teach some anti-vehicle tactics through weapon selection e.g. EMP a warthog and board it.
- Gold: Balls out use of weapons in a full COD style timed FBI style course. Again the real sweet spot to beat your mates leaderboard score and show your skills. Force change of weapons from enemy pickups, use of the right weapon for the right job e.g. sniper spots, run and gun spots and all in one course. True master stuff with weapons on the fly combining movement and jumps from previous tutorials.
- Grenades
- Bronze: Basics of throwing, pick ups, choosing grenades. Range of close and mid targets, increasing to simple one vector moving targets.
- Silver: Full blown strafing, circling and all that with multiple targets at once. Move from close, mid and long ranges. Mild elevations
- Gold: Include static obstacles, targets in/out of cover, elevations, wall bounces, keyhole grenade shots etc. Teach grenade jumping with types of grenades and elevations or long jumps.
- Damage
- Bronze: Basic understanding of shield vs. no shield headshot and descope/flinch as damage is taken and given out. Could include turrets and other power weapons to display 1HK, plasma shield stripping etc.
- Silver: Use targets with dynamic shield damage so you learn to identify if they're a full shield, flaring shield or no shield target. All while moving and use of OS or damage boost etc. This should also have targets that require a grenade then headshot to teach those more intermediate tactics. Teach splash damage
- Gold: Require multi target damage or group damage with a grenade then headshots for double or triple kills. Teach how to engage more than one target. Teach how to use cover to avoid damage from incoming fire while waiting for a grenade to pop or you to reveal from cover for the timed headshot. Use long ranges for bullet spread or leading requirements.
- Awareness
- Bronze: Basic vehicle awareness like ghost splattering or warthog sounds in the distance, turrets around a corner, sprinting footsteps. Perhaps you have to evade based on those or attack from a vector unseen.
- Silver: Stealth mechanics so you have to sneak to certain areas, combine or staggering some normal movement with stealth just like a real map or on a real map. Teach how to infiltrate a base, avoid targets or activate a switch.
- Gold: All out combination of all silver and gold in an FBI style course. Attack some targets, stealth some areas, avoid vehicle patrols and simple use of colour coding to know the difference. Easy in theory, dynamic stuff to master.
- Maps
- Tactics
- Vehicles
- Teamwork (basically the Halo 3 style training mode but with highlighted goals that only coordinated teamwork can achieve, helps promotes mic usage and leadership and is a real online matchmade fake game)
As you can see you could easily devise a real mode that brings tutorials, social, scoring and a reason to elevate your skills and contest your friends. I remember the COD FBI course and playing that a shit-ton. I also visit specific skills in FIFA14 and move up from silver to gold etc as I know I'm wanting to use a certain skill in game from what I've practised.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
So, I'm playing Forza Motorsport 5 with some Microsoft employees after they invited me, holy shit guys I thought I was a suck up. Some of these guys are treating them like their gods. :|
Reminds me of how people reacted to playing with Bungie employees on Halo.
Reminds me of how people reacted to playing with Bungie employees on Halo.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
So, I'm playing Forza Motorsport 5 with some Microsoft employees after they invited me, holy shit guys I thought I was a suck up. Some of these guys are treating them like their gods. :|
Reminds me of how people reacted to playing with Bungie employees on Halo.
Teabagging and screaming down the mic is sucking up now?
FuD clarification: I'm also going to point out that only 1, 2, and maybe 3 were available for viewing for a while. 4 and 5 I know for sure were hidden. I think 3 was available, but I honestly don't remember or know if they still are.
Poker Face
Member
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
So people want Halo to hand hold tutorials now?
Orochinagis
Member
Didnt the campaign filled that part in most of the fps?
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
That's kind of arrogant to say. I'm up for whatever that'll help players be better without dumbing down the gameplay.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
it just seems like it could be better accomplished with a playlist similar to Bootcamp in CoD. not an extensive tutorial system that the majority will either use once or not at all.
or campaign.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Have you played the FIFA14 skills I describe? Honestly my friends list keep revisiting it and I have been too. Admittedly I play FIFA sporadically but I always hit up the skills each session. I think it starts out as tuts but becomes more of a friends one-up manship and revisiting the advanced skills to get better at the parts of the game you need to.
I'm a long time soccer fan and played for 9 years I've also played 3 different FIFA games but bugger me if the advanced versions of the skills best me often. The advanced ones don't hand hold at all IMO.
First of all, it's much better to have a short, dedicated, optional gamemode that is dumbed down than the ENTIRE. GAME. Don't you agree?
Second of all, this is something I think that could appeal to speedrunners. An obstacle course or whatever, first few dedicated to training a Spartan, and eventually turning into a dedicated, super difficult thing to do. I think this is something people could really like for its own sake.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
whats the point, the game is already pretty dumbed down. they dumbed it down to attract people that played for a month and left (see Population numbers). other halos didnt have these systems in place, and they thrived just fine.
and 343 disregarded speedrunners when they left out basic things like fileshares, campaign scoring and campaign theatre.
User 73706
Banned
I think every campaign should strive to at least educate players on the basics of game design if it's got a sizable multiplayer component. Hell, I went into GTAV blind control-wise and I wouldn't have understood a thing if they didn't include the constant reminders. I guess that's a little different considering the plethora of button options, though.
Even the most logical person isn't going to think of crouch jumping.
I still don't know how to do it properly. Isn't it supposed to make you jump higher?
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
but those things wont give a new player a gold star. /s
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
It's a solid point but not without its disadvantages. You don't get that friends leaderboard, you don't get ramping up skill tasks that are replayable and you don't have that tight focus of stepping through difficulty levels for a particular skill alone.
Further it would also free up the main game to just jump right in balls out without the need for a filler mission or two to get players "used to the game". So you give new modes for re-playability or social competition and you avoid having crappy missions for veteran players of 1 or all previous games too.
I still have vivid memories of Forge creations in Halo 3 that were specifically designed to build sniping skills or warm up skill tasks for players e.g. Foundry fusion coils setup like sheet shooting or Octogon gametype where you went 1v1 BR battles with spectators etc.
That's what game manuals are for.
RIP game manuals.
(It pulls your legs up higher so you can clear higher obstacles.)
It works off the logic that you're pulling your legs up at the top of the jump. Crouch near the apex.
However, it does require a lot of dexterity. If I were making an FPS, I'd drop crouch jump and replace it with either a double jump with the same height or a jump pack with the same height as a crouch jump (jump pack also triggered by the jump button.. so it's still a double jump, just with a different animation)
The usefulness of having two separate jump heights for potential jumps is that you can gate paths to the state of the player. If the player is normal, then they can double jump/boost jump. If they're in a state of holding an objective, then you can gate the faster paths out of their reach by disabling their booster/double jump to reward team work (tossing the flag up) and give the enemy a chance to catch up to the flag.
In this day and age though, if I have to consult a manual to be able to play a game, your game has failed. I can't even stand playing Madden anymore because it's like trying to fly a fighter jet.
Training will always be there in game campaigns, because you're going through training often up until near the end of the game. With proper pacing and design, you don't even know you're being trained. For example, the entire first part of Sierra 117? That's training people to know how to use the gamepad. If you came right off Halo 2, you just jumped forward and followed the Arbiter.
For new players, it fforces them to become familiar with movement. It then forces you to learn how to jump to proceed out of the first area. The winding path familiarizes you with turning. And ther'es no enemies during this part so you feel safe and can learn at your own pace. It finally concludes with the first battle of the game, which introduces you to fact that Brutes are the leaders by showing him summoning the grunts. Immediately afterwards, a phantom comes in and drops off enemies below you, giving you a chance to safely pick them off.
So now Halo 3 has shown you:
- How to move
- How to fight
- Brutes are leaders
- Phantoms drop off new enemies
Without explicitly yelling "YO DAWG THE PHANTOM DROPS OFF NEW GUYS! TAKE COVER AND WAIT FOR THEM TO FINISH! AWWW YEAH OSCAR MIKE OVER AND OUT"
You'll notice the same thing on Tsavo Highway. They start you in a safe place, and light up the warthog in front of you, enticing you to get in it. The big steel door takes long enough to open that at least one marine will get in with you, showing you that you can give rides to fellow marines. Then they send you into a big open winding cave to let you get familiar with how the warthog drives before finally giving you enemies to fight at the end of the tunnel. The enemy encounter is also intentionally set up to where the turret will see them first, so you'll see for sure that the AI will fire the gun for you and can fire in a different direction than you are facing.
User 73706
Banned
It made you jump higher in every title but 4, iirc. 4 made it superfluous other than making you a smaller target.
I know, but 343 wants to help casuals get into the game. We want the game to be as deep and simple as it was before, so we're suggesting that the dumbed down part be relegated to a separate optional tutorial mode.
Halo isn't quite as simple as one might think. It looks simple, but it it's actually rather deep. It's a very intelligent shooter, despite being simple (since complex =/= intelligent), so having it dumbed down for dumb players (dumb meaning "ignorant") harms the experience immensely.
The older Halos simply never addressed the issue of casuals. You either dealt with it or you didn't. 343 wants to appeal to casuals, and while that's fine, they need to do it in a fashion that doesn't harm the core experience, like the did with 4. Tutorials is a way to accomplish this.
Exactly, which is why we're providing feedback in the first place. In addition to Tutorials, they should also add back in fileshares, campaign theatre, and campaign sco---wait. THEY TOOK OUT CAMPAIGN SCORING?!!?!!? Tell me it ain't so!
Oh, and I've already made two rather extensive posts on why I think Campaign should be the primary learning ground for playing and more importantly, WHY it should be and HOW it should do it. I just happen to think there is room for a separate, optional, tutorial section.
Ok, see then that's something I wouldn't have necessarily thought to do. Seems obvious now, and now I feel dumb, but it's not something I would have thought of on my own.
edited to put two more relevant posts together.
MrGreencastle
Member
I appreciate that you took the time to write all this, but I really don't like the idea of a strict tutorial mode in Halo. It just cheapens the design by spelling everything out. There should be depth to the game that players just have to figure out by playing the game more (obviously the design should convey enough information so that players can learn through experience). I'd rather just have bot playlists for people who aren't comfortable with their skills in multiplayer. The fundamentals of play can be learned in the Campaign for those that play it.
Example: You should never be explicitly told that 3 bursts from a BR followed by a headshot will result in a kill, rather, the game should make that obvious enough if you're willing to pay attention (shield popping effect, colour changes, game audio, medals as rewards for proper execution, etc.). Show don't tell. It's OK to not understand every single system in play before you even get into a game. Your knowledge and skill should be improved through discovery and experimentation. That's what makes it satisfying to play because you feel like a badass optimizing your play rather than reading through a series of "objectives and waypoints".
Now, a challenge mode of some kind like Firefight or SpecOps is fine enough, as long as it isn't just straight up treating you like an idiot that can't figure things out for yourself.
I've never played FIFA.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Playing with that employee didn't get me a job.
PM me Frankie/and or Urk, you're my only hope now.
Nah, but seriously, I wonder how hard it is to get a job at 343.
PM me Frankie/and or Urk, you're my only hope now.
Nah, but seriously, I wonder how hard it is to get a job at 343.
User 73706
Banned
Playing with that employee didn't get me a job.
PM me Frankie/and or Urk, you're my only hope now.
Nah, but seriously, I wonder how hard it is to get a job at 343.
Depending on your connections and applicable experience, probably not that hard. All toshi had to do was shave his head to get into 343's community cartographer program, the hazing seems minute at best.
The Campaign is definitely the place for most of this to happen, as I've explained several times how, but tutorials can be for certain things.
I think a Halo tutorial should be dedicated to things that a person wouldn't necessarily know in the first place, and wouldn't be taught in the Campaign.
For example, the BR thing you mentioned wouldn't be taught in a Tutorial I'm thinking of. That's something you're just going to learn from playing. Other things that aren't quite so obvious, like grenade jumping, could be a part of that.
In my mind, anyway, the tutorial would serve to help keep the dumbing down out of multiplayer itself.
Ideally, you'd just have the Campaign, but I don't know how much faith I have in 343 to deliver that. I'd love to see it, but I wouldn't count on it.
So Tashi does in fact work at 343?
I don't know.. I feel like tuts are a good idea, but not to extent some of you all are taking it. A simple "tips and tricks" feed at the bottom of the screen during loading or pre-game MM that gives slight, straight to the point tips like... "Crouch at the top of your jump to reach those just out of reach ledges." Maybe if they expand the post-game statistics, they could give you feedback based on what you did in the game. If you got a lot of assists and hardly any kills, maybe it would say "Make sure to aim for the head to finish off your kills." For a bunch of deaths it would say "Stand behind cover for (x) seconds to let your shield recharge."
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Would anyone mind if |OT 20| had a "Community" segment in the OP sharing the Twitter Handles, YouTube/Twitch Channels, and Xbox Live accounts etc, of HaloGAF users? Assuming of course the users are okay with sharing their social networks and want them to be presented.
Guess it would depend on what you were applying for and what your skills/education/training consisted of. For instance, an avg. person applying to be a custodian at hospital might be more likely to lead to success than becoming the head of pediatrics or CFO.Playing with that employee didn't get me a job.
PM me Frankie/and or Urk, you're my only hope now.
Nah, but seriously, I wonder how hard it is to get a job at 343.
I kid. You got this.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I'd be okay with it. other gaming community OTs do it.
FTFY
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Sounds good. Are you making |OT20|?
MrGreencastle
Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
For those who don't visit Waypoint:
Titanfall, A Halo 4 custom map (map and gametype downloads)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-oBtGBSx4
Titanfall, A Halo 4 custom map (map and gametype downloads)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-oBtGBSx4
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
speaking of 343 BINGO cards, someone needs to make a 343 PR talk BINGO card.
So, this is my first semester of college and I'm currently enrolled in an astronomy class that I will soon be getting out of because IT REQUIRES 12 HOURS A WEEK DEDICATION HOLY FUCK IS THAT JUST STRESSFUL TO THINK ABOUT. I recently started a 40+ hour a week job and on top of that I have 4 other classes, and my online astronomy teacher wants me to just give her my life? Fuck no.
I guess that's what I get for choosing a Christian school to get my basics done :/
Ho-hum.
I guess that's what I get for choosing a Christian school to get my basics done :/
Ho-hum.
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