Syphon Filter
Member
you contradict your self.you realize that more accessible means to sacrifice skill right?also halo was already accessable, i even remember trolls calling it a casual game back then.
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Halo |OT19| 793 Posts, And None Worth Reading
- Thread starter Ozzy Onya A2Z
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K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
That's not necessarily what accessible means. Accessible means helping new players enjoy the game right away, and to continue enjoying the game regardless of whether or not they grow more skilled at the game. It also means having a consistent gameplay logic and conveying it clearly.
I've kind of mentioned it before in here, but FIFA has a really wonderful way to introduce players to the game. When you boot up FIFA14, it immediately places you in a game on an easy difficulty of Barcelona v Real Madrid and gives you time to play around and play a first full game while it installs on your hardware (fwiw, it installed fully on both Xbone and PS4 before the game ended which was pretty neat). Then with matchmaking it really does a wonderful job of matching you with other players through divisions based on performance, i.e., you have a set amount of games a season and you need a certain number of wins/draws to advance. You don't meet that goal? You fall down a division and have to play back up.
I understand it wouldn't equate 1 to 1 with Halo, but we really need ranks. I couldn't possibly see how in-game ranks really ruined it for players when talking about being plagued with bought accounts or boosting. With Halo 4 and Halo Reach it was one of those things (often!) if we were getting slammed it was 'oh well we lost, let's horse around with vehicles or objective hold' etc. The re-introduction of ranks could satisfy both a competitive standpoint of wanting to rank up but also ensuring a lot of times you'll be matched up with a similar skill.
And I know I jumped around, but you could have a bot-based training as a warm up into the game while installing so it could introduce players to basic mechanics and firefights.
Well most of the stuff I saw doesn't make much sense in a game like Halo.
A tutorial level for every single map, explaining the basics, is a complete waste of time and resource. It is something that someone would play twice. Plus, the idea of "Here is how you pick up the Flag" or "Chuck a grenade here to bounce of the wall!" is incredibly lackluster and doesn't teach you anything you couldn't figure out from playing a game of matchmaking. Its a waste, and a bad idea. Halo really isn't that hard of a game to figure out, specifically when you all spawn with the same weapon.
And no, it would not do anything with the speedrunning community. How would anyone find speed-running a tutorial level that teaches you where to jump on a level fun and challenging? The whole point of speedrunning is because of how hard and challenging it is.
We don't need all this guides and menus and hints in Halo on where to throw a grenade, or whatever. Why should 343 get to the point where they need to act like the consumer is a small child who can't read. Its a simple First Person Shooter. I honestly don't know of a single person I've watched who is new to video games that can't figure out how to play Halo after a couple games. They might not play good, but they know how to throw a friggin grenade, and how to jump, and that is because reflexives and quick thinking are key to competitive Halo, and that isn't something you can't just put put a guide too.
Another idea, was if I was reading it correctly, was they wanted weapons to randomly spawn at 1 of 6 points on a level, and have a 10 second timer. Once again, this just adds more randomness to a once balanced game. Their is literally nothing wrong with weapons having a set spot, with a set time. It is anyone's game. With the random location, it will always spawn closer or further away from a team, who'm then have 10 seconds to get to it as fast as possible, while the enemy team is waiting at it. With a set location, none of that matters. It is your fault if you aren't at its set spot when it spawns every 60 second. You accept the risk that since you are NOT trying to get the power weapon, someone else likely will.
343's idea of "accessibility" was to make the game as easy as possible, so people who weren't as good could still win and feel like they were contributing to the game. The ideas I've been reading are acting like we're trying to make a game for a small child who doesn't understand what an FPS is. I'm all for a quick guide in the menus, but its just a complete wasteful idea to every implant these things.
lmaoIf only we had an example of this sort of system working well.
Also:
Shitty phone pic but I admire this guys dedication to spread his message.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Play FIFA14 with the skills bronze, silver, gold and friends leaderboard stuff then comeback here and eat your own words
The KI dojo is applicable as well, great skill training with scoring that transfers right to the game.I still find myself going back to both as they scale up and/or are social with your friends list too. For example there are skills I'm terribad with in FIFA but through the levelling in training I can see which friends are on the same silver level and what score they had in a simple leaderboard. I want to get better at certain skills and I revisit those fairly often. Then I apply what I learnt in game and practice.
This is two near two months after those games released and I started playing them. I played both games in their older generations too. The implementation is far more than the Halo 2 shields look up or down, especially the FIFA14 stuff. It's truly very well executed and meaningful to player development.
Also you've clearly skimmed read the "random spawn" stuff. It's set locations and fixed initial starts then random from a few set locations. Anyhow go back and read.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Guys I don't think tutorials are going to save halo
gAg CruSh3r
Member
Guys I don't think tutorials are going to save halo
It might help a lot tho. Stop ruining our hopes and dreams.
SHIFTYkiwi
Member
It might help a lot tho. Stop ruining our hopes and dreams.
All I can think of when people talk about multiplayer tutorials for halo is the Beginners playlist that was in halo 3 for new players. Maybe an advancement on that system might be beneficial to some degree.
In saying that though I do not believe halo is so complicated that it warrants a tutorial for multiplayer. It all comes back down to matching players reasonably by skill level.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, ranks are a must. I think it's cool to have a playlist or two without visible ranks for people who get stressed out by that stuff, but even then the ranking system and matchmaking should be working behind the scenes.
I dunno about bots, though. It seems like a lot of work to use them for such a small part of the game, and if they were to be always available in offline MP, I'm afraid the online population would take a hit.
I still like Tashi + Karl's idea of a training mode with built-in point / time challenges. I'm imaging a cross between the targeting range from Perfect Dark and the VR missions from Metal Gear Solid. Fix all the problems with Spartan Ops and make it do something like that.
[Edit : This also makes me think of Advance Wars. The early levels are always super basic, but quickly ramp up and become more challenging. Or think of Portal -- it gives you a ton of bite size objectives and makes you figure them out without ever treating you like you're stupid.]
Not save. Just help.Guys I don't think tutorials are going to save halo
Yeah that's a good point. I just like to think of developers as endless amounts of time and resources at my disposal to give me fun.
samurai1226
Member
I dont get why people like the idea of indicators to show you where weapons gonna spawn. The system of Halo 1 to Reach (except Invasion Slayer) was great and worked very well. It was part of the multiplayer experience, that better players started to learn the weapon spawns and timers through forge mode, and random people just had fun when they luckily found a good weapon.
putting spawn indicator on the map just leads toward camping the hell out of the spawnpoint. everyone with a sniper or another good power weapon will be forced to camp in that location. It's exaclty the big fault that dominion did, everyone was camping with powerweapons inside the capture points.
just let the playerskill decide, if the guy with the powerweapons knows where the enemies will be in the next amount of time, instead of force everyone to go to specific map positions. for that part we already got gamemodes like ctf.
Also i think 343i should get rid of a lot of one-hit-kill weapons, there were way too much of them in Halo 4. Powerweapons should be kind of unique. If you want to implement a human, covenant and promethean weapon for every weapontype (like sniper, rocket launcher, assault rifle, etc) i think it would be great to make them map specific. in covenant themed maps there are more covenant powerweapons, in promethean maps are more prom weapons, and so on.
oh, and i think the mantis was a cool addition to the multiplayer (even though it should be redesigned to better fit into the todays-technology unsc theme), Halo should bring back more air fights. The falcon was a really amazing element in reach, it was fun like using the warthog in Halo 1 MP for the first time, just that it was kind of a sky-warthog. Besides that Halo 4s skybarrier, the point where you arent able to fly higher, was way too low, so even with falcons or hornet there was no space for air fights.
Last but not least: i still dont get who thought not splitting ranked and social was a good idea. Social players get their experience ruined by the pro gamers and vice versa
putting spawn indicator on the map just leads toward camping the hell out of the spawnpoint. everyone with a sniper or another good power weapon will be forced to camp in that location. It's exaclty the big fault that dominion did, everyone was camping with powerweapons inside the capture points.
just let the playerskill decide, if the guy with the powerweapons knows where the enemies will be in the next amount of time, instead of force everyone to go to specific map positions. for that part we already got gamemodes like ctf.
Also i think 343i should get rid of a lot of one-hit-kill weapons, there were way too much of them in Halo 4. Powerweapons should be kind of unique. If you want to implement a human, covenant and promethean weapon for every weapontype (like sniper, rocket launcher, assault rifle, etc) i think it would be great to make them map specific. in covenant themed maps there are more covenant powerweapons, in promethean maps are more prom weapons, and so on.
oh, and i think the mantis was a cool addition to the multiplayer (even though it should be redesigned to better fit into the todays-technology unsc theme), Halo should bring back more air fights. The falcon was a really amazing element in reach, it was fun like using the warthog in Halo 1 MP for the first time, just that it was kind of a sky-warthog. Besides that Halo 4s skybarrier, the point where you arent able to fly higher, was way too low, so even with falcons or hornet there was no space for air fights.
Last but not least: i still dont get who thought not splitting ranked and social was a good idea. Social players get their experience ruined by the pro gamers and vice versa
I'll post that just for fun, even though it obviously doesn't seem legit to me. At all.
A friend of mine sent me this "supposedly" leak of the next Halo One trailer.
A friend of mine sent me this "supposedly" leak of the next Halo One trailer.
First instinct: it is a fake.
Second instinct: rough concept trailer, might not even get released.
The voice over stuff is interesting in that regard:
I live in a prison born from my disgrace
Im lost in time
I am Mendicant Bias
Tutorials are nice ideas but I don't think it is needed to put so much work in it. Like someone else said instead of a basic loading screen just show the map layout with the weapon spawns on it like in Gears.
But the less on my HUD the better. Esepcially waypoints and white text
But the less on my HUD the better. Esepcially waypoints and white text
Has to be a fake. Everyone and their grandma has a smartphone with HD recording now, and yet people still try the fake blurry cam video stuff. I mean really, we're almost at 4K video recording in smartphones. Even if you violently shook an iPhone it wouldn't take that blurry video. Then again you never know, the last weird leak with the green and purple models turned out to be real, Palmer scout helmet etc. Huge Didact pulling Chief with telekinesis and throwing him. Let's see if it gets hit with a copyright claim.
Hypertrooper
Member
After the barn leak, I can't trust video quality to tell me if something is fake or not.
No, here what I find silly is how it's taken in a mixing table, as if the guy thought it would make the video more professionnal, legit.
Probably a fake, yes, but holy dayum, Mendicant Bias...
Well you could argue that the older traditional way also promotes campingmore so by longtime players than new players which creates some unfair advantage. Indicators are not a bad idea, but it is depended on how it is utilized. The social and ranked modes could play an important role in that regard. Social is seen as a place for new people to get acquainted with the game, with all its ins and outs. In that mode indicators could give new players a helping hand on understanding basic gameplay fundamentals like map control and awareness. When crossing over to ranked modes, all the indicators (the training wheels) will be turned off, but a new player knows enough of the fundamentals that he does not feel like he is at a disadvantage.
For longtime players it means that the game is still pure in its competitive mode and is not shackled by the whole game feeling like its constantly being held back by the training wheels.
samurai1226
Member
really good idea. yeah i think that would work for all type of gamers
@Trailer: Theres no way this could be real
Fake. :-3
Indeed, I quite like the Quake Live tutorials. It has been forever since I played the introduction with Crash, but I think the rocket jumping and strafe jumping tutorials are brilliant. For those unfamiliar, you're thrown into a training centre and presented with 3 hallways. Each one leads you into an obstalce course of sorts; 1 being the easiest, 3 being the hardest. It's a great way to practice the advanced movement techniques of Quake.
I love Tashi's and Karl's idea for the multiplayer maps. Wahrer's idea is really, really cool too. I think vehicle obstacle courses could be kinda neat, just to practice driving and various combat situations.
I know I don't hardly ever input into real conversations much, but you guys are my favorite people in the world. I miss playing games with you guys
<3
MrGreencastle
Member
I'm guessing that's the PS4 version. I'm really curious to see what the game looks like on last gen consoles since they've been boasting about their new super optimized engine for months. The game looks perfect.
Very interesting. I can't help but feel like it's fake, but the VO stuff is interesting
ElRenoRaven
Member
That is beyond extremely fake. Not a single doubt about that.
I think the key is that Halo doesn't have the skill curve of say DotA, and that should be treated as a strength; training and tutorials should work in concert with not against the most players; hence if you want to put some tutorials into a hardcore playlist, I don't really care, but I think it would just turn off regular players trying to do their first -20 K/D spread in Team Slayer.
(A lot of the issues also get obviated in the presence of a robust matchmaking system based on skill. So let's hope for that.)
I think on the lines of what you're talking though, the key is to make players not really realize they're practicing honing anything. If you've got an obstacle or race course set up in an Action Sack gametype, you can practice crouch jumping and power sliding without something telling you 'hey you should tap the brakes here'.
Ultimately there's a lot of innate learning built into the matches like others have said, so it's worth seeing what can be reinforced by those methods.
"If you've done it right, people won't think you've done anything at all" and all that.
User 73706
Banned
Lighting is exactly what I'd want out of an FPS, but it's looking more like StarWarderlands with every shot.
Yeah same for me, it also is hard for me to get hyped about hit because of it.
Also the trailer feels fake, Medican Bias would also be again a character like the didact, he would need to be fleshed out and explained and bot just thrown in the game and only book rreades know what's really up.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Why would they bring up Mendicant Bias all of a sudden?
It's doesn't look bad but I'm on the fence about the design of these guy's:
They look cool, but I just can't put my finger on it with them.
Killmanjaro81
Member
The ones on the right look like Geth from ME and the one on the left look like super battle droids from the Star Wars prequals. The visuals seem nice and polished, but I feel really eh about the game in general still.
Honestly the Vex and the Fallen have a very Covenant/Elite look to then if you compare. I posted a few pics quite a few pages back. Especially in the way they are animated. But yeah, I also get a Mass effect vibe as well. I already feel like I'm looking at Quarians when I'm looking at the Guardians.
Edit: this post, it's over 9000...
Edit: this post, it's over 9000...
I would read it.
I agree. I've always thought Halo was very accessable anyway. Even when I was bad at Halo, I found it easy and fun to get into. I wasn't punished for doing badly, but I was rewarded for doing well, and that's what kept me at it.
Well, hey. What a coincidence. I played against this dude in Halo 3 about a month ago, or at least the guy had a name that was almost exactly the same.
I think bots could work for things like local multiplayer.
See that way people could just play by themselves with really easy bots to learn the maps, then charge into the foray once they feel comfortable.
It'd also be great if you don't have Gold and want some o dat multiplayer but don't have anybody friends to play local.
Hey bro that was my idea too.
Let me love you!
I kinda sorta caused a huge argument by miscommunicating pretty badly (I still think some of you were being dicks, though.), and I'm worried that, since not many people will want to read all. of. that. that Frankie might also miss the last page or just put me on ignore, which probably isn't as bad.
Guys I don't think tutorials are going to save halo
I don't think anybody said it would, but it's a lot better option that what we've been getting.
Again, none of it needs to be intrusive, I think. Like, the post I made about Campaign helping to train you.
Funny, Josh Holmes talked about Halo 4's Campaign teaching you how to play MM. From what I've heard....I don't they exactly succeeded. Or maybe they did...
EDIT: erg, megaquote.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Hey bro that was my idea too.
These ideas have been said many times for the last several games. Nothing really new there, just rehashing discussion in a positive manner that most people will agree with.
Depending on how much time/resources it would take to get a training mode in like Quake Live et al., I think it would be a great addition. They could even add more stuff to it as time goes on and the meta game is developed by the fanbase, all thanks to the power of the cloud!™ Truth be told, we should be expecting a shit ton of features in Halo 5 compared to the last few Halo games because 343 should be a well-oiled machine by now. One thing that's always disappointed me was how stagnant Halo has become since Halo 3 with regards to new features and content being added.
Training mode or not, there absolutely should at the very least be a Tutorials/Advanced Techniques section detailing these things with little clips and pics. Have it explain the properties of weapons (shooting mechanics included) and movement like crouch jumping, etc.. It'd be slick if they had a constantly updated worksheet that integrates Halo Waypoint within the game's menus, so it could be easier for them to add patch notes from the browser and players can read weekly updates. Things like that, extensive usability without babbifying gameplay design.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Theres nothing in Halo complicated enough to demand a tutorial, bring doubleshots or quick reloads or bxrs back and maybe that would demand it. Everything else is basic FPS genre.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
My thoughts exactly.
Tutorials? The game is really basic when it comes to FPS mechanics.
squidhands
Member
Campaign/Firefight is all the tutorial you need to figure out Halo. Trial by fire in matchmaking.
Add a Big Ben skull that throws a customizable timer (stopwatch or countdown) on screen for the speedrunner community that got fucked over by the last game.
Add a Big Ben skull that throws a customizable timer (stopwatch or countdown) on screen for the speedrunner community that got fucked over by the last game.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
It's a shame they don't have a more battle damaged appearance that would be cool, as for the game itself i'm still on the fence till we see more of it.
This is reasonable that campaign and firefight, teach you the basics's of game play, and the matchmaking is more sort of laissez faire, attitude to helping the player. That said if button combo's did return, a little guide thing in the menu wouldn't hurt anyone.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Same thing has been said about fighting games for years, but when KI introduced the Dojo Mode and detailed fighting game mechanics, fans loved it. Whether you've been playing FPS's for your entire life or just started with Halo 5, something like this could be beneficial. Needed by you and me? No. But could it help with the majority of Halo's fanbase? Absolutely.
Things like power weapon/power-up/vehicle/etc. spawn timers. Advanced techniques like backpack reloading (343 pls), crouch+jump when you hit a slope to gain momentum, the list goes on.
Yeah maybe when it comes down to just pressing the R/L Triggers at things.. Doesn't teach you diddly squat if you want to get better at multiplayer and in fact, could worsen your aiming since AI movement patterns are much different than a player's.
Of course there are. Maybe not mechanics wise like shooting a gun but there are many high level strategies. We could teach flag juggling. It would be amazing.
Objective juggling being performed by random's? That would certainly improve effectiveness of objective game's and make them more bearable. I miss juggling the flag
.It's hip to be square.
I do! And it's coming up on the one year anniversary of it too (I can't believe it's been a full year since that trip)
Offline bots. Problem solved.
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