HiredN00bs
Member
Wait, we can't bitch about Halo 4 to @HaloWaypoint?
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Halo |OT19| 793 Posts, And None Worth Reading
- Thread starter Ozzy Onya A2Z
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It's 343...or Saber... you never know what they might do.
Apparently not. You'll get called an asshole by a few gaffers.
I can see it now AA's and perks everywhere ugh.
That's a point did certain affinity do those maps?
Cmon it's one thing to say Flinch ruins the gunplay in Halo 4, and another to say, this game is worse than Denver's performance or saying it's a poor man's CoD and talking about how bad it is, and when asked for constructive criticism say, sorry I need to be hired for my views.
Deputy Moonman
Member
I thought the tweet was actually pretty funny as a joke, and not much different than a yo-momma's-so-fat type joke. But tagging waypoint and a bunch of 343 employees was distasteful and unprofessional (imo). Twitter has definitely become a medium that requires a little more professionalism. People get fired from their jobs all the time based on the dumb things they say on twitter. And honestly, I'm not sure if pulling stuff from Speedy's twitter account and using it as a means to harass him for several pages on neogaf is any better. Hopefully, it's all in good fun, which I think most people here have been doing.
It's funny because he's mormon too haha
Dude cmon.
Fyre offered a VERY valid point.
The closest I've seen to a decent post mortem was that letter in the bulletin that said "We learned a lot"
On the build up to Halo 3, Bungie would be saying they thought they messed up with Halo 2, despite it being highly praised by the media, despite it being the most played game on Xbox Live until GEARS OF WAR ON THE XBOX 360.
Who knows, maybe they'll do something similar as Halo 5 draws near. But so far it seemed to be endlessly patting themselves on the back
Almost everything single-player related: new graphics, the new graphics engine, etc.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Halo fans have been doing this for years, but what does it ever amount to?
Transitions:
- CE to H2: People were just expecting another Halo to blow us away. Gameplay took a turn for the worst, but the game excelled in other areas (XBL).
- H2 to H3: Expectations rose and suggestions increased. After Halo 2, people wanted a single shot precision rifle and for the game to get faster and more consistent (kill times, movement speed, overall gameplay). Halo 3 literally did the opposite.
- H3 to Reach: Expectations rose and suggestions increased. After Halo 2 and Halo 3, people wanted a single shot precision rifle (check, but it came with bloom..) and for the game to get faster and more consistent (kill times, movement speed, overall gameplay). Reach literally did the opposite.
- Reach to H4: Expectations rose and suggestions increased. After Halo 2, Halo 3 and Reach, people wanted a single shot precision rifle without bloom and for the game to get faster and more consistent (first game to be faster and more consistent than its predecessor) with less random nonsense (AA's, etc.). Halo 4 literally did the opposite and even added more CoD elements to the game.
Multiplayer.
I agree with this 100%. By now we would normally have Bungie publicly admitting where they messed up or what they wished they could have done better. But 343 has not done that once. I don't know if it has to do with bravado or they don't want to admit any mistakes with their huge giant corporate overlord above them, but it sucks. It makes me not want to trust them as a developer.
MythicReclaimer
Member
But what about that GFWL shutdown issue we were promised would be resolved? ;;;;;;;;;;;
I believe the "shutdown issue" will be resolved by being able to play H2A with multi in some form on a shiny new Xbox One with the Xbox Live service. This does not resolve anything for PC only gamers but I doubt they would consider porting the games of their flagship franchise (or updating the Halo 2 Vista server situation) especially with a fresh console on the market.
I might ask what the whole point is. Fyre seems to be looking for self-flaggelation and a checkbox that they hit to atone for their sins.
I don't care about appeasing people who want to hear an apology, I'm more interested in the games to come.
As for the faults of the "Bungie method"--they shit all over Halo 2 to the point that they neutered all their alien characters in Halo 3 because players complained about playing as the Arbiter and apparently didn't understand the Covenant. You can be unhealthily and unnecessarily critical of your product to the detriment of future work.
Well it was quite good for what it was based on, it's better than 4 though(possible rose tinted glasses). Doing the exact opposite of what people want isn't good.Halo fans have been doing this for years, but what does it ever amount to?
Transitions:
- CE to H2: People were just expecting another Halo to blow us away. Gameplay took a turn for the worst, but the game excelled in other areas (XBL).
- H2 to H3: Expectations rose and suggestions increased. After Halo 2, people wanted a single shot precision rifle and for the game to get faster and more consistent (kill times, movement speed, overall gameplay). Halo 3 literally did the opposite.
- H3 to Reach: Expectations rose and suggestions increased. After Halo 2 and Halo 3, people wanted a single shot precision rifle (check, but it came with bloom..) and for the game to get faster and more consistent (kill times, movement speed, overall gameplay). Reach literally did the opposite.
- Reach to H4: Expectations rose and suggestions increased. After Halo 2, Halo 3 and Reach, people wanted a single shot precision rifle without bloom and for the game to get faster and more consistent (first game to be faster and more consistent than its predecessor) with less random nonsense (AA's, etc.). Halo 4 literally did the opposite and even added more CoD elements to the game.
Multiplayer.
That's cool so certain affinity just did the multiplayer stuff. Sabre did quite well with the single player.
I'd imagine Microsoft and marketing being part of the reason Halo 3 had less alien friendlies. I mean, like "Hey Bungie, people didn't like that alien master chief, could you reduce the screen time he gets, kkthxbai" and "It is kind of hard to sell, after Halo 2". Figure this is the worst case though, but i wouldn't be surprised if it did happen.
I've heard MS pushed Bungie to focus more on the Halo 3 multiplayer, to detriment of its campaign but not sure if that is true actually.
Caayn
Member
You mean this one?
It was bad, the mistakes he names are so generic that it could've been anything. Never really putting the blame at himself or his team. And the second you began reading beyond the letter of Frank in that bulletin, and the bulletins that followed, it's back to the patting themselves on the back with things as "blessed to be the caretakers etc. etc.". Promises such as more communication with the community have yet to be realized. And no Jessica Shea opening up two new admin forum accounts and a separate "news" section in the forum doesn't count.
Conspiracy theories now?
That's probably the wrong word for it. But it seems a little far fetched... IMO
This is my problem with the situation.... Tyler was being a fucknut, but had he actually posted a constructive tweet, the only reply would have been "we'll pass it along to the mp team."
343 just needs to be more open during development to be honest... or... you know... do the same thing Double Helix and Team Dakota did with Killer Instinct and Project Spark respectively and give us a bi-weekly stream showing off new stuff and getting a software or mechanics engine out there to talk about the stuff they've been messing with in the weeks prior.
Bravo and/or Jess, Quinn as hosts with a random guest every stream... show off your test levels, just running around shoot with a BR for 5 minutes and people will be happy. You'll get free criticism(lol) and you'll build hype.
I don't think it's far to demand that developers spend an inordinate amount of time catering to a tiny percentage of the player base and open themselves up to more shit from all sides. What is so wrong with waiting for trailers, interviews and demos and builds at expos, exactly?
Demanding? Lol... it was a suggestion.
Also there is nothing wrong with those things, I was just suggesting because it worked out well for both Double Helix and Team Dakota.
edit: And trust me, of course the expos and stuff with take precedence over this. Team Dakota had to cancel streams a few times. It doesn't hurt to have a stream set up. As long as people know it is there to watch. And considering how big 343 and Halo is, they will get leagues more viewers than TD and DH did during their streams, which gives even more chance for constructive feedback. Jess makes it out like they want it so much, so why not?
Deputy Moonman
Member
I think the one major difference is that Bungie had produced several games by the time they went back and explained the miscomings of Halo 2. 343 has made one game. Bungie didn't become transparent immediately. And it's not that I'm giving 343 a free pass, but the circumstances are a bit different. I don't know what apologizing at this point would do, anyway, other than possibly (and only temporarilly) appease the most die hard of halo fans - and I know that the number of die hard fans is more than just small minority. It's like the xbox one drm fiasco. Microsoft pulls the 180 in response to fans and then everyone says MS is untrustworthy. It's a lose-lose situation. Might as well just focus on Halo 5 and hope for the best.
Just being cynical and thinking the worst case scenario.
However, marketing-wise it makes sense, i think. Focus on the Master Chief and Earth. EDIT well, ignoring the fact Halo 3 marketing never made any mention to "no mandatory Arbiter", aside from Bungie mentioning it in some weekly update, i think.
Bungie didn't bring back strong (or practically any) alien POV for ODST and Reach though so perhaps reducing Arbiter's presence was really their decision. MS did seemingly give Bungie a lot of freedom when it came to Halo.
Gabotron ES
Member
What is this lol, I want to see mine.
Except MS is untrustworthy for a number of other reasons. Doing a 360 on their scummy DRM was a financial decision.. make no mistake.
"We may have been right. What we were wrong about was that it's just too soon. People just weren't ready to make that leap right away."
What an amazing intellectually dishonest apology there.
As for 343, seems like they gave up on Halo 4 a long time ago so yeah a focus on making H5 not shit would be great. Problem is, 343 has given no indication that they actually know where they went wrong and there a few drones in this thread pointing to release window sales and gaming journalism reviews (LOL) as an argument for why Halo 4 wasn't bad for the series.
That ChromeHounds like thing I teased is up now if anyone else played that game religiously.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
For a minute I thought that Chromehounds was the Xbox game I played before I got Halo 2, but I looked it up and CH was only for 360.
Do you know which game I'm talking about?
EDIT: Nevermind I found it. MechAssault aww yiss.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Hopefully the Speedy Twitter reposts die down soon around here.. They're disgusting to read, and this is coming from the only guy who wanted zoojoo back after he was banned ;\
I agree with you there Fuchs, I don't need a postmortem. Bungie's given us several of those and their games were never unquestionably better than the last, so what's the point?
I'm more concerned about the next game's release and them showing it off like Double Helix did with Killer Instinct.
This is where you're mistaken Fuchs. Showing off the game prerelease may initially garner some negativity if the direction isn't want fans want, but the more they show it and the more criticism they receive, the better our chances are of receiving a polished game come launch. Everything plays off each other; 343 shows the game routinely and allows fans to express their concerns. Fans will feel like they're getting involved and they'll start gaining more respect for 343. That's how a positive atmosphere is maintained, especially around a franchise in decline, and the resulting positive effects should be obvious.
Again, Killer Instinct. Look at the positivity Double Helix received from fans and critics alike going into KI's launch; that's what we need for the next Halo. 343 won't get that by simply releasing trailers that are obviously meant to glorify the game; Halo fans aren't being fooled by that shit anymore (on a long-term scale at least). Positive reinforcement + positive momentum = crucial to the next Halo release.
king picollo
Member
ehhhhh I like MWO for awhile but the devs have been pulling some shit and those $500 golden vanity mechs are just stupid lol
They should bring back MechAssualt on XBO
Mech Assault was a completely different beast, from previous MechWarrior's and MWO. They're nothing alike.
I never played the first one but the sequel was awesome (single-player, never got to play it on Live).
NobleGundam
Banned
Besides Havok's physics engine, what would be better or perfect instead for Halo?
With all the requests for positive feedback, constructive criticism, etc... It would be nice to see a collaborative effort from our regulars here who routinely provide this kind of insight, only in separated and often difficult to track down posts on our forum and various blogs. You know, a single paper that clearly illustrates strengths and weaknesses of Halo 4 as voiced by guys like Karl, ghaleon, fyre, gabo, juices, havoc, Henery (where is that post btw?), etc... Get together and lay it all out. Put together something several guys can contribute to that covers it all from multiple perspectives. Seems like an effort that wouldn't be nearly as wasted as posts that get lost over time. I'd contribute but my contributions would pale in comparisons to most of yours.
Euphoria would be interesting. Presumably movement and driving could be tuned to be what they're in previous Halos, having the AI systems and animations would be great, especially if combined with new systems (for single-player only) like disarming enemies. Imagine that, shoot an Elite's weapon and watch as it pulls out a couple of Energy Swords and charges at you!
The idea of a post mortem would be them saying exactly what they did wrong and what is being fixed.
Showing the game off could do the same thing as well.
Hoping for a bungie style vidoc where they say what halo 4 did poorly and how they're fixing it.
"Yeah, so, we took elements from COD but hybridizing them with Halo didn't work out so great. So we're making the game even more like COD, dropping Halo elements. That should work" (OK, sarcasm, but i think Halo 4 might have done even better (or at least equally well) had it been re-skinned COD. Might have. But not among HaloGAF for sure)
Pretty sure they've said the Prometheans didn't quite work out as they had hoped. I wonder how they will fix that though, the Watchers are an interesting enemy type.
HigherLevel
Member
Havok's strength is that it networks well and can handle lots of entities (depending on the hardware). There really isn't much that compares to it these days for the conditions Halo requires.
This is versus the original Halo engine, in which everything was modeled as a compressable bouncy sphere, hilariously CPU bound, and networked like garbage. There was a reason damn near everything in Halo 1 is nailed down, and Halo 2 having tons of moving debris/objects on the same hardware.
Euphoria is cool but Euphoria requires you to essentially have the Euphoria team work in-house with you, and it's a lot of long hours and work. With how fast FPSes iterate, that would be a potential disaster. You can do the above scenario with canned animations, but any animation system is ultimately limited by the console's RAM. More RAM = more potential animations.
Massive in reality, or was the reaction inflated?
Dude pretty much confirmed it lol
Pretty much just said we have to wait for the news event to officially tell you.
The Real Napsta
Member
Credit for your work is nothing new.
No, Bungie did. And really, I didn't like the CEA graphics layer too much. It lit up too much of the dark areas.
When you use middleware, part of the licensing terms is that you show logos for the middleware on bootup. If you don't want the logos, you have to pay extra (and it's a considerable amount).
You'd be surprised how specifically logos must be displayed in some contracts.. percentages are used, screen areas banned, minimum time to display..
Yeah... which is too bad. Wonder what will happen now that Zynga owns Euphoria. Wouldn't be surprised if Rockstar continues using it but... well, was there any game aside from Rockstar games and Star Wars Force Unleashed that used Euphoria?
BTW, to me it looked like in Reach pre-release trailers and video clips and such, Spartans were more... ragdolly. Like the joints could've moved more? I think it was the Reach MP trailer were a Spartan is sniped and the body crumples in a way that doesn't happen in the final game.
SP was kinda garbagey too. Please get Bluepoint to spend a a few months doing a 1080p/60fps perfect port of the original to modern consoles and Steam please, no need for fancy new visuals, just sharp IQ and framerate, maybe online but that's too much to ask I guess... Having to play my GOAT game on 4:3 30fps on the old 360 doesn't cut it.
Multiplayer.
It's possible, more likely it was an artistic decision. You'll notice in Reach everyone's locomotion is much better, their bodies actually move up and down as they walk and Spartan feet actually match the slope. There was a Bungie Publication on this but half of them don't work anymore. Go back to Halo 3 and you'll notice everyone walks around like their entire upper body is fused.
You can adjust all the parameters for ragdoll effects. So they can be really bouncy and light like Gears of War 2 bodies or really stiff and heavy. You can also set limb constraints, so you can either have a Spartan pretty much fall over stiff or crumple up like origami.
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