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[StalkerUKCG]

And there goes me spitting out my beer. You bastard

Dont drink and post, Its dangerous

 

[Hydranockz]

First, I don't even know what you're talking about, I'm pretty sure you completely missed the point. Second, trying to use a single example as a counterpoint to a critique of repeated events across the entirety of the Halo franchise is farcical and pointless.

I'mma just gonna say that the AI algorithms the Halo games use genereally means the units do slightly different things every time. Sure it'll still be the same 7 Brutes at the top of the Crow's Nest, but even with the same weapon, the encounter changes. The way the enemies 'think' is dynamic and on one checkpoint a Brute might wander in one direction but pon reloading, it might not.

This is all circa Halo 3 AI stuff. ODST set up more emphasis on pac leading and stuff like that and similar stuff happened in Reach.

Having run through Nightfall I don't know how many times, I can assure you none of them were the same. The speedrunning route is the same but sometimes the Elites jetpack on to the opposite roofs and other times they stay put.

There really isn't any need for a Director system like L4D. I thought someone who cares so little about the story and so much about resources would not see the point in such a system for a Halo game...

 

[daedalius]

It's the number one rule of shooters:

Players think having an old/ancient weapon in a modern setting is badass.

Examples:Black Op's tomahawk and crossbow, Crysis 3's crossbow, Halo 3's katana armor

Well that is fine, but Spartans can still punch through tanks. A lot of other futuristic dudes can't so they carry swords around.

If you can punch through a tank, why would you ever use a knife? A spartan could literally crush the head of another spartan like a melon; or punch through his armor and rip out his spine.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

I'm not too privy on the inner workings of game development, but would a Director style AI implementation be even feasible on current hardware for Halo 4? When you consider the kind of scope they're going for in terms of enemy encounters and level sizes, that is.

This guy gets it.


I agree with kyle and over, this must be what Anakin felt like in RotS

Does this mean you'll be tossing kyle into a Death Star reactor when Halo 6 launches?

 

[NullPointer]

If you can punch through a tank, why would you ever use a knife?

The slow blade pierces the shield.

I'm not too privy on the inner workings of game development, but would a Director style AI implementation be even feasible on current hardware for Halo 4? When you consider the kind of scope they're going for in terms of enemy encounters and level sizes, that is.

I'm sure it is, if you're willing to sacrifice stuff like true HD resolution and AA. Oh wait...

But seriously, the game would have to be designed around it and thus have its own set of trade-offs, so it hard to say. All I know is that I'd like to see the AI director idea explored a lot more.

Dont drink and post, Its dangerous

I will *never* look at that movie the same way ever again.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I'm not too privy on the inner workings of game development, but would a Director style AI implementation be even feasible on current hardware for Halo 4? When you consider the kind of scope they're going for in terms of enemy encounters and level sizes, that is.

Correct me if im wrong *fyrewulff* but i always figured that AI was more to do with the level of coding skill rather than the actual processing power, obviously thats factored in and the more on screen the more the CPU has to pull its weight but with a good coding AI can be pretty advanced.

Does this mean you'll be tossing kyle into a Death Star reactor when Halo 6 launches?

If he gets lucky.

 

[senador]

I hope we haven't seen the last of Noble team or Bucks ODST squad in games

I hope to never see Noble team again, and not because of dislike. They were supposed to be one-offs for Reach. They were supposed to have died defending the planet. Having Six, Jorge, or Jun come back would just cheapen Readh further. They died defending the planet, ultimate sacrifice, yadda yadda, let them stay dead.

 

[kylej]

I didn't miss the point. Your post was so generalized and vague that I didn't even know where to begin, so I responded in a similar manner. Probably better if left it alone.

There really isn't any need for a Director system like L4D. I thought someone who cares so little about the story and so much about resources would not see the point in such a system for a Halo game...

If "good enough" is acceptable to you, that's fine. It's not to me, but I can't debate with people who hold that mentality.

 

[Rand0m TAG]

it would be cool to have a perfect dark type setting where one guy plays the enemy and one guy plays master chief.

 

[Gui_PT]

It's like those flip flops you hear about in politics all the time

 

[Fracas]

Well that is fine, but Spartans can still punch through tanks. A lot of other futuristic dudes can't so they carry swords around.

If you can punch through a tank, why would you ever use a knife? A spartan could literally crush the head of another spartan like a melon; or punch through his armor and rip out his spine.

Haha, I was agreeing with you, it'd be a lot cooler if instead of the boring knife kill, you used your strength to crush an enemy's head in or something.

 

[NullPointer]

There really isn't any need for a Director system like L4D.

Thats like saying there isn't any need for more awesome. Of course its not a need. It'd just be awesome.

And take it as you will but I found myself more attached to the characters in Left 4 Dead than most Halo games.

I love the Halo universe from the books, but the games don't do what it takes to get me to truly care, AI enemy placement or no.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

On the current subject discussing with a old friend who modded Halo CE encounters and such.

"Random mob spawns are super-easy, you could do those in Halo PC. You don't need a "director" for that."

You just set a bunch of points and say "spawn shit at this time, at either of these points."

 

[xxjuicesxx]

"Good enough" lol.

That should be Halo's new motto.

 

[kylej]

"Good enough" lol.

That should be Halo's new motto.

That's been HaloGAF's motto for years.

 

[NullPointer]

On the current subject discussing with a old friend who modded Halo CE encounters and such.

There is more to the AI director than calls to some randomizing function.

That's been HaloGAF's motto for years.

Ahh, there it is. Your Sith is showing.

 

[Ramirez]

On the current subject discussing with a old friend who modded Halo CE encounters and such.

Man, give this guy the credit for L4D, amirite?

The director system keeps track of what's going on at all times, it's not just a random spawning system.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Random montage stat:
18.3 GB of clips captured in glorious 720p

 

[Rand0m TAG]

I'm guessing that its too late to submit clips

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Haha, I was agreeing with you, it'd be a lot cooler if instead of the boring knife kill, you used your strength to crush an enemy's head in or something.

Frankie should see the opening to Irreversible. Until then, God of War Ascension will probably have you covered there.

That's been HaloGAF's motto for years.

Would you like some salt with that salt?

 

[The Librarian]

http://escapedintothewaves.com/uploads/38 Bicyling Backwards.jpg[img][/QUOTE]
Whatever works for you. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about the encounters of Halo 3 (and other games) when you have trouble remembering them, especially when this whole discussion comes down to semantics and what you consider to be "scripted" anyway. Encounters in Half-Life 2? [I]Those[/I] are scripted.

It would've been better if you had called the encounters in Halo "limiting." That's a much better term for what you're describing, and I think you would have a fair point in a way. But scripted? That has far different connotations.

 

[NullPointer]

The director system keeps track of what's going on at all times, it's not just a random spawning system.

Yep. It tries to balance pacing and difficulty, spawns enemy types and numbers at chosen locations, places equipment pickups, and even affects music, lighting, environmental effects and sometimes even level geometry.

In short, its a fucking incredible piece of innovation that deserves to work with AI enemies more interesting than zombies.

Frankie should see the opening to Irreversible. Until then, God of War Ascension will probably have you covered there.

Nobody should see the opening to that movie.

I'll just say this: Worst. Date. Movie. Ever.

 

[Tashi]

With hotel internet? lol

Really pumped for a PAX recording though.

Ya this letters.

Do we have a PAX headcount right now from HaloGAF?

 

[StalkerUKCG]

There is more to the AI director than calls to some randomizing function.

Man, give this guy the credit for L4D, amirite?

The director system keeps track of what's going on at all times, it's not just a random spawning system.

Oh i know, just saying that random enemy groups have been possible for a long time, something like this would at least be a step in the right direction.

Obviously the rest of the stuff the director does would be great but its basic functions are mob spawning and ammo drops based on player statistics and these could be simplified for halo.

Spawn Mob consisting of set parameters in location A,B or C. Detect ammo at checkpoints generate ammo spawns based on current levels.

We dont need a full director but something more than what Halo currently offers would be much appreciated.

 

[Fracas]

Random montage stat:
18.3 GB of clips captured in glorious 720p

Quit teasing us, man! I want that montage all over my face.

 

[thezerofire]

The slow blade pierces the shield.

I'm hoping I'm smart here and caught a Dune reference

 

[NullPointer]

I'm hoping I'm smart here and caught a Dune reference

*spits*

 

[HiredN00bs]

That's been HaloGAF's motto for years.

Your criticism hasn't been "good enough" like, ever. Even in older threads, your critiques are drenched in as much ignorance as they are arrogance. Just call me Team Team Downer Downer.

 

[kylej]

Your criticism hasn't been "good enough" like, ever. Even in older threads, your critiques are drenched in as much ignorance as they are arrogance. Just call me Team Team Downer Downer.

What?

 

[Stinkles]

*spits*

*penetrates*

 

[Ramirez]

*penetrates*

 

[ncsuDuncan]

I'm guessing that its too late to submit clips

Yeah, sorry. Had to lock down the content so I can finally get this thing wrapped.
(To be fair, the clip submission deadline was a month and a half ago. )

Do we have a PAX headcount right now from HaloGAF?

I suppose this is a good time to reboot the HaloGAF PAX page. Give me a shout and I'll add you!

 

[kylej]

Where's my HaloGAF montage teaser goddamnit.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

*mood*

 

[NullPointer]

*penetrates*

I blame Google for lending validation to my shitty memory.

 

[Thermite]

*penetrates*

BOOM

 

[Hydranockz]

Thats like saying there isn't any need for more awesome. Of course its not a need. It'd just be awesome.

And take it as you will but I found myself more attached to the characters in Left 4 Dead than most Halo games.

I love the Halo universe from the books, but the games don't do what it takes to get me to truly care, AI enemy placement or no.

I was arguing that kyle's original point about encounters which play the same every time is false because of the way the enemies are coded. I never touched on any characters in any of the Halo games or story elements as I largely agree with the idea that they have no real weight or meaning. I personally don't look for that in shooters but that's my entirely subjective opinion

 

[Rand0m TAG]

Yeah, sorry. Had to lock down the content so I can finally get this thing wrapped.
(To be fair, the clip submission deadline was a month and a half ago. )

I suppose this is a good time to reboot the HaloGAF PAX page. Give me a shout and I'll add you!

no biggie. just got an awesome triple. haven't really been on reach

 

[StalkerUKCG]

HaloGAF members attending:
ncsuDuncan

 

[NullPointer]

I was arguing that kyle's original point about encounters which play the same every time is false because of the way the enemies are coded. I never touced on any characters in any of the Halo games or story elements as I largely agree with the idea that they have no real weight or meaning. I personally don't look for that in shooters but that's my entirely subjective opinion

Isn't the Halo AI deterministic for co-op networking reasons? Wouldn't that mean that the same inputs lead to the same outputs? I'd take that to mean there aren't even subtle variations to how the AI plays out each encounter, short of the player themselves changing things. That's not a dig at Halo btw, just how I understood it to work.

And while I don't look for story in shooters (but appreciate it when it happens) I do expect character.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Isn't the Halo AI deterministic for co-op networking reasons? Wouldn't that mean that the same inputs lead to the same outputs? I'd take that to mean there aren't even subtle variations to how the AI plays out each encounter, short of the player themselves changing things.

And while I don't look for story in shooters (but appreciate it when it happens) I do expect character.

Halo 1 is Deterministic, i dont know if this carried forward. If it did thats better news for a potential Halo 2 Anniversary. I remember that guy saying Halo CE:A was easier because of the AI

 

[Garrett 2U]

Correct me if im wrong *fyrewulff* but i always figured that AI was more to do with the level of coding skill rather than the actual processing power, obviously thats factored in and the more on screen the more the CPU has to pull its weight but with a good coding AI can be pretty advanced.

From my personal experience, the processing requirements aren't necessarily due to the AI logic, but rather the tasks the AI may assign a entity.

Well when you're making a new game and restricted on seven year old hardware, much of the processing power is dedicated towards graphics.
The first impressions of most consumers are based on graphics.

Then the rest of the content systems have to be built to scale on the remaining power.
Features that might be feasible for the player to execute might take too many resources if you try to have a bunch of AI entities execute it.
So then you might program checks to see if a task could be completed, and that just uses even more resources.

It definitely takes a lot of experience.
There are so many variables when programming for encounters that are essentially random.
Some studios might not be confident enough in their schedules to make time for all that bug testing.

But hell I'm an amateur, those are just my thoughts

 

[Steelyuhas]

Field of view in reach was 78, most likely the same.
Its confirmed from a old build so BR might of changed
No LE up on Amazon yet. Gamestop taking in store order and on the site

Hopefully it is the same as Reach's (I wouldn't mind wider). The FOV in Halo 2 and 3 is awful, especially after playing Reach. It's one of my main issues whenever I try to go back and play Halo 3, it feels like I'm in a tunnel the whole time.

One of the best cutscenes ever.

Dear lord Halo 3 face tech. So bad!

I think the characters in ODST is definitely overrated. Buck is a very good character, but the rest are nothing to write home about. The Buck and Dare romance is handled particularly poorly in the final act, with some seriously cringe worthy dialogue (the writing and the performances). Also, the prospect of the Rookie not talking in a game about a squad of soldiers is just silly. Those scenes where Dare basically has a two-way conversation with herself and the Rookie's silence are terrible.

I felt the same as H3 and ODST's stuff; none of the later Halo games had anything that stood out in terms of story or characters. Jorge was the closest type of character they could have had to flesh out and be interesting, but they killed him off half way through. Arby in 2 was the last truly great Halo character they've produced and wrote a half-way decent storyline for.

Agreed with the bold.

Speaking of characters, Emile was a badass, that's a fact.

 

[Hydranockz]

Isn't the Halo AI deterministic for co-op networking reasons? Wouldn't that mean that the same inputs lead to the same outputs? I'd take that to mean there aren't even subtle variations to how the AI plays out each encounter, short of the player themselves changing things. That's not a dig at Halo btw, just how I understood it to work.

And while I don't look for story in shooters (but appreciate it when it happens) I do expect character.

I'm not entirely sre about the networking aspect but from what I could tell from the slides about AI Bungie had up on their site, while things like the first beach assault in Halo CE are somewhat scripted, Halo 2 and up is 95% AI working out what enemies need to do. I am aware that enemies have a few different states which include patrolling, scouting and engaging. I can't remember the exact names but that was the gist of Halo 2/3 I think. The enemies could decide to look around and explore which would not include any knowledge or input from the player. The limited knowledge model used since Halo 2 is what seperates itself from COD and other games where enemies always know where you are.

 

[Rand0m TAG]

Speaking of characters, Emile was a badass, that's a fact.

Spoiler

because he's black

 

[The Henery]

ODST is my favourite campaign after CE but fuck if I can remember the characters or story. I liked Emile in Reach purely because he was voiced by Marlo.

I've never, ever felt any real resonance with Halo's storyline. All about the gameplay.

 

[NullPointer]

Speaking of characters, Emile was a badass, that's a fact.

90% of the reason right here:



And the other 10%?

I'm ready! How 'bout you?!

 

[thezerofire]

 

[Tashi]

I almost clicked the black bar to reveal the spoiler lol

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I almost clicked the black bar to reveal the spoiler lol

I did, didnt work