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Halo |OT6| I will not allow you to leave this thread!

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U

u4iX

Member
Tha Robbertster said:
You know, I've been having this thought for a while too. They did say they were going to change up CTF somehow...
Click to expand...

If it was an Tactical or Support package that allowed it it would be more interesting. At least you would have to sacrifice a trait in order to put the flag on your back.
 
S

Swarmerr

Member
u4iX said:
If it was an Tactical or Support package that allowed it it would be more interesting. At least you would have to sacrifice a trait in order to put the flag on your back.
Click to expand...

Ughhhhh.

Put picture a game of ctf when you search alone and no one choses the tactical or support package. It would give people even more of a reason not to go for the flag and in essence would turn into cod pub objective...
 
U

u4iX

Member
Swarmerr said:
It would be cool if there was an option in custom games to turn flag juggling on.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I'd rather see it across all gametypes or disallowed and force players to change they way they play around it.

It gets ridiculous to a point, especially when trying to garner interest to new players, when you have tons of these tiny little tweaks that affect how a game is played.

For instance, when switching from Super Slayer to MLG, it takes me a few games before my aim and strafe is adjusted to the different movement speeds and jump heights. It makes it harder for newer players to keep playing different gametypes when they can't realize why it "feels" different.
 
G

Gazzawa

Member
"Your flag is a weapon. it yurns to bathe in the blood of your enemies. But you hold it back!"

"My flag is a tool of justice!"
 
U

u4iX

Member
Swarmerr said:
Ughhhhh.

Put picture a game of ctf when you search alone and no one choses the tactical or support package. It would give people even more of a reason not to go for the flag and in essence would turn into cod pub objective...
Click to expand...

If there was a Win/Loss based ranking system, you would literally be forced to if you wanted to rank up.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
u4iX said:
If it was an Tactical or Support package that allowed it it would be more interesting. At least you would have to sacrifice a trait in order to put the flag on your back.
Click to expand...

That just sounds horrible. Halo would truly be dead on the day that happened
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
u4iX said:
I disagree. I'd rather see it across all gametypes or disallowed and force players to change they way they play around it.

It gets ridiculous to a point, especially when trying to garner interest to new players, when you have tons of these tiny little tweaks that affect how a game is played.

For instance, when switching from Super Slayer to MLG, it takes me a few games before my aim and strafe is adjusted to the different movement speeds and jump heights. It makes it harder for newer players to keep playing different gametypes when they can't realize why it "feels" different.
Click to expand...
MLG definitely is a completely different beast. It took me quite a while to get used to MLG even though I was already pretty good at the normal game. You have to pretty much relearn how you play the game. This goes from maps to weapon behavior to movement to power weapon placement and so on.

I'm a bit torn about it though. I like it because it's clearly so much better than default Reach but it also creates a barrier between normal playlists and MLG. To be honest I'd rather see an MLG playlist in Halo 4 which is completely stripped down again. I don't see myself playing the normal matchmaking garbage with loadouts, perks, killstreaks and whatnot. Stripped down Halo is best Halo.
 
S

Swarmerr

Member
u4iX said:
I disagree. I'd rather see it across all gametypes or disallowed and force players to change they way they play around it.

It gets ridiculous to a point, especially when trying to garner interest to new players, when you have tons of these tiny little tweaks that affect how a game is played.

For instance, when switching from Super Slayer to MLG, it takes me a few games before my aim and strafe is adjusted to the different movement speeds and jump heights. It makes it harder for newer players to keep playing different gametypes when they can't realize why it "feels" different.
Click to expand...

This is true but I feel that if any mlg settings are made there will be many things that hit the chopping block. I personally would love to see mlg just mirror the settings of halo 4 matchmaking exactly that way there is no gap between normal and "competitive" settings. (I know many players that don't respect the skill of mlg players because to them mlg players play a completely different game)

Tbh though, how many people in mlg will actually want to use halo 4 game settings from matchmaking?

To the point of win/loss, everything frankie is saying about skill based rank leads me to believe there is little hope for it coming to fruition. I hope I am wrong.

Overdoz1z said:
MLG definitely is a completely different beast. It took me quite a while to get used to MLG even though I was already pretty good at the normal game. You have to pretty much relearn how you play the game. This goes from maps to weapon behavior to movement to power weapon placement and so on.

I'm a bit torn about it though. I like it because it's clearly so much better than default Reach but it also creates a barrier between normal playlists and MLG. To be honest I'd rather see an MLG playlist in Halo 4 which is completely stripped down again. I don't see myself playing the normal matchmaking garbage with loadouts, perks, killstreaks and whatnot. Stripped down Halo is best Halo.
Click to expand...

The problem is as halo continues to change more and more from its previous installments it becomes near impossible to recreate a H2 or CE. At some point I feel we just have to try and fully accept what 343 is trying to do with Halo and see what happens.

Granted I am very skeptical about many things in Halo 4 and I would really love to play a CE or H2 but it just isn't practical to try and recreate old games in new halos as the mechanics are completely different. (because they are meant to support the new halo not old ones)
 
H

Havok

Member
Pok3R Fac3D said:
heres a thought:

what if carrying the flag is no longer default? it just goes on your back like in cod, which removes flag juggling..

:(
Click to expand...
I just think the days of making the flag carrier super slow need to come to an end. It just doesn't make sense in a game with default sprint to have a slower-than-base-speed carrier. No need to juggle if you aren't getting a speed boost from it. Don't let him sprint or shoot or use an armor ability, just give him a nice base speed. Even without default sprint in Reach, I feel like getting a flag cap against decent players has become more difficult unless you really nail the team setup.

I'm not ready to lose the dynamic that arises from forcing the flag carrier to be on the defensive by taking away his weapon (even though they assed it up by giving him a 1HKO melee weapon), but something gonna have to change.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
Swarmerr said:
The problem is as halo continues to change more and more from its previous installments it becomes near impossible to recreate a H2 or CE. At some point I feel we just have to try and fully accept what 343 is trying to do with Halo and see what happens.

Granted I am very skeptical about many things in Halo 4 and I would really love to play a CE or H2 but it just isn't practical to try and recreate old games in new halos as the mechanics are completely different. (because they are meant to support the new halo not old ones)
Click to expand...
The moment even MLG goes away from stripped-down Halo goodness Halo is truly dead.
 
O

Omni

Member
Swarmerr said:
The problem is as halo continues to change more and more from its previous installments it becomes near impossible to recreate a H2 or CE. At some point I feel we just have to try and fully accept what 343 is trying to do with Halo and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't understand why so much change is needed.

Okay. So 343i want Halo to innovate? Sure, why not? But isn't an excuse to change the entire game. If you want to make something new and fresh, make a new IP. I'd hate to bring it up, but just look at CoD. It has remained basically the same since CoD 4 and yet it still tops the charts.

By the time Halo 6 comes around, it might as well be called something completely different.
 
Z

zap

Member
I don't understand what the big deal about juggling is. Risk/reward was great.

I'm fully expecting to have CTF more COD-like with the flag on your back.

I'm not a fan of 5v5 objective in Reach, and I have noticed flag games seem to end in a draw more often with the current system. I guess flag on the back means that could be 'fixed'.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Hypertrooper said:
There are two ways of "drops". The Infinity Ordnance which resembles mostly the known system, just more random. The Infinity Ordnance is different in each playlist. This graphic from the latest bulletin shows the system understandable:

Every few minutes the weapons respawn. Unlike previous titles, the weapons respawn at a different location. Power weapons like Rocket Launcher, Sniper will be shown in your HUD. Smaller weapons like Needler etc. not.

And then we have the Personal Ordnance. You are talking about the Personal Ordnance. During action, you fill up the bar and you can pick between 3 randomized choices. Infinity will drop them near to you.

At the end I am liking the system.(If it plays out like I imagine) The random dropping of weapon can prevent the power weapon abusing we see in Reach.
Click to expand...
randomrosso said:
They're static at the start of the match, I believe. Then they come from ordinance drops.
Click to expand...
TheOddOne said:
If I remember correctly in a video showing Adrift, the sword was there at the beginning of the match. So I guess there will be some static drops.
Click to expand...
Louis Wu said:
I lol'd (this was my reaction before I got to the end :) ).

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that there are power weapons on-map at the start of the match (at least in the versions we've seen so far). You're probably right that they're derp derp kill machines... but I LIKE that. If I had to rely on skill alone to beat my opponents, I'd lose far more often. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone!

And @Wu :) I'm trying not to take myself so seriously. Well, not that I do, but I am good at spewing a bunch of angst.I appreciate your perspective on the power weapons because I hadn't looked at them that way.
Rickenslacker said:
I agree with you on this completely. When I played CE, the thing that stood out to me with the two weapon inventory was that every weapon was balanced in its own way. Unlike the FPS games I was used to before it where there was a clear weapon progression where you'd start with a dinky shotgun, and work your way up to finding better and better weapons because you could hold them all. In Halo a pistol was good because it could zoom and tackle any range with its three shots. A sniper could tackle long ranges with its one shot kills. A shotgun could tackle short ranges with its one shot kills. A rocket could handle mid range and vehicles with its ridiculous blast radius, but its capacity was extremely limited. I realize I'm mostly naming power weapons here, but it felt like a decent tradeoff between the AR and pistol that one would be the one you would spray with reckless abandon and the other would be more trusty with precision.

Anyhoo this was just my initial impression of the design for the game and what made it appealing to me in the first place, naturally some of the weapons fell by the wayside-- but I feel like the division between utility and power has become more and more stark as the series progressed. In my time with Reach, it's like you said, power weapon or don't bother.
Click to expand...
very much so.
Swarmerr said:
One of the many good things that seem good in halo 4 is how power weapons look to be weaker than the previous games. Personally this comes as a relief seeing how reach had the easiest and strongest power weapons to use.
Click to expand...
I haven't watched the halo4 vids enough yet to really gauge their balance with the rest of the sandbox, but I'm hoping for this as well. It would be a nice change of pace from Reach.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
mastrbiggy said:
You're so annoying. ;)


This is my perspective. New people want to fit in immediately, I know I did. Some people try to force themselves into the group and end coming off as annoying and artificial.

When I first joined everyone seemed to dislike me, mostly due to my old avatar. Now about 3 people on here like me. It took some time. They guy who disliked me the most, well, we ended up becoming boyfwend and gurlfwend, heckfu.gif. The rest is history.


Just be yourself, get involved, and be nice.
Click to expand...

Yep. Just be yourself, don't be some persona, don't post too much. It took me 3 Halo Reach OTs to become a member as well as posting in the funny picture thread and occasionally SC2GAF.
u4iX said:
If it was an Tactical or Support package that allowed it it would be more interesting. At least you would have to sacrifice a trait in order to put the flag on your back.
Click to expand...
I like the idea, but I'm still not fond of perks...
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
randomrosso said:
Personally, I don't understand why so much change is needed.

Okay. So 343i want Halo to innovate? Sure, why not? But isn't an excuse to change the entire game. If you want to make something new and fresh, make a new IP. I'd hate to bring it up, but just look at CoD. It has remained basically the same since CoD 4 and yet it still tops the charts.

By the time Halo 6 comes around, it might as well be called something completely different.
Click to expand...

That's the thing though, Halo does need to update and change. CoD changed drastically with CoD4, Halo hasn't had any kind of decent change. Yeah, Bungie mixed the bag up a bit with Reach and we have issues with it, but in order to keep the series fresh it needs to keep evolving. Shipping a better looking version of 2001 or 2004 multiplayer is just rehashing an old game. Keep that for an "Anniversary" style package.

Don't get me wrong, I love Halo 1/2/3 as much as anyone, but Halo needs to be a 2012 game. Adding things like sprint helps this I think.
 
S

Swarmerr

Member
randomrosso said:
Which personally, I don't understand why so much change is needed.

Okay. So 343i want Halo to innovate? Sure, why not? But isn't an excuse to change the entire game. If you want to make something new and fresh, make a new IP. I'd hate to bring it up, but just look at CoD. It has remained basically the same since CoD 4 and yet it still tops the charts.

By the time Halo 6 comes around, it might as well be called something completely different.
Click to expand...

Yeah I understand the sentiment of wanting them just to make a brand new game. Idk on the one hand I get to play another halo game and enjoy some of the nostalgia, but on the other I am stuck playing a halo game that is completely different than other halo games. I think at this point I am just going to try and accept halo 4 for what it is and not try to compare it with previous halo games. In the sense that I am not going to try and determine what halo game halo 4 plays most like.

What sucks about console shooters is that the games are forced out every couple of years or if your cod every year and the games don't get much of a chance to grow. I would much rather prefer an starcraft strategy where the developers make constant patches and updates to the game over a longer period of time. (while releasing dlc and expansions to the game) This way more people could learn about halo and be able to play the same game that many have been and would be enjoying for years.
 
S

Shadders

Member
zap said:
I don't understand what the big deal about juggling is. Risk/reward was great.

I'm fully expecting to have CTF more COD-like with the flag on your back.

I'm not a fan of 5v5 objective in Reach, and I have noticed flag games seem to end in a draw more often with the current system. I guess flag on the back means that could be 'fixed'.
Click to expand...

D:

I've warmly accepted 343i's changes so far. I've been willing to trust their expertise and wait until I've played it before complaining about changes, but this would be a step too far for me. Having to have the team protect and support the flag carrier is what makes CTF so special. When you hear someone excitedly splurt that they've taken the blue flag through the mancannon on Valhalla and you scramble to get a Warthog out to them whilst they're still alive. To me, that is Halo.

Would you allow driving with the flag too?
 
J

JackHerer

Member
Pok3R Fac3D said:
heres a thought:

what if carrying the flag is no longer default? it just goes on your back like in cod, which removes flag juggling..

:(
Click to expand...

This already exists in Halo. It's called speed flag. Fun game type but I would not want it to be default. Requiring one person to hold the flag and not shoot requires more team work which is a good thing.

p.s. I also love flag juggling. Adds another layer of strategy: you can go faster with the flag but the enemy will know where you are the whole time or you can go slow and your location will be hidden. Hopefully it is a viable option in default games.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
Oh wow welcome u4ix, I'm glad you're here, you said very good things in these posts.

Especially the thing with the slug and evolution.

I liketo read such thing with good arguments and not in a sartcastic way
something feelings are getting hurt something

And I think we saw bigger weapon drops(sniper/laser) on longbow because it is maybe a big team battle map?
And maybe the players were already in a "tier-2" ordnance drop level?


EDIT: flag juggling better be in.
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
I would never, ever want normal speed while carrying the flag. Flag juggling adds another layer of skill and it gives you a choice: Do you want to do the stealthy, slow cap, or the fast, loud cap?
 
Z

zap

Member
Shadders said:
D:

I've warmly accepted 343i's changes so far. I've been willing to trust their expertise and wait until I've played it before complaining about changes, but this would be a step too far for me. Having to have the team protect and support the flag carrier is what makes CTF so special. When you hear someone excitedly splurt that they've taken the blue flag through the mancannon on Valhalla and you scramble to get a Warthog out to them whilst they're still alive. To me, that is Halo.

Would you allow driving with the flag too?
Click to expand...

I don't want it, but I think it makes it more 'newcomer friendly' in 343's opinion.

It fits with the other changes that they have made :/

Mister Negative said:
I would never, ever want normal speed while carrying the flag. Flag juggling adds another layer of skill and it gives you a choice: Do you want to do the stealthy, slow cap, or the fast, loud cap?
Click to expand...

Yup. Exactly this.
 
L

LosDaddie

Banned
I played some MLG here & there since REach's release, but not as much as I did this weekend due to the Jackpot. Very nice change of pace, and it hit the jackpot once. :)
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
How about being forced to wield a pistol with unlimited ammo if your holding the flag, which you automatically switch to when grabbing the flag and automatically switch away from when you drop the flag. That means you don't use the flag as a weapon, it's on your back, no juggling.

You still have to reload. You walk slightly slower. No sprinting.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
zap said:
I don't understand what the big deal about juggling is. Risk/reward was great.

I'm fully expecting to have CTF more COD-like with the flag on your back.

I'm not a fan of 5v5 objective in Reach, and I have noticed flag games seem to end in a draw more often with the current system. I guess flag on the back means that could be 'fixed'.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest problem people have with it is the Announcer saying "Flag taken, Flag Dropped, Flag Taken, Flagged Drop" etc etc.

It's annoying.
 
S

Swarmerr

Member
Louis Wu said:
tldr: tl;dr

(protip: make your tldr SHORTER THAN THE MAIN BODY)
Click to expand...

Lol yeah I got a tad bit carried away with the tl;dr. Idk I just get random urges to make decent topics sometimes and then I get lazy near the end of making the post.

I probably should not make a full post in one sit down.
 
T

Tha Robbertster

Member
ElzarTheBam said:
They did? Did they specifically mention CTF?
Click to expand...

I think it was mentioned in one of the GI videos. Don't know if they were talking about CTF specificly.

u4iX said:
If it was an Tactical or Support package that allowed it it would be more interesting. At least you would have to sacrifice a trait in order to put the flag on your back.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't like that at all to be honest with you. I'd rather have perks that give you something extra than ones that take things away from you like not being able to pick ip grenades from dead bodies.
 
U

u4iX

Member
Tha Robbertster said:
I think it was mentioned in one of the GI videos. Don't know if they were talking about CTF specificly.



Wouldn't like that at all to be honest with you. I'd rather have perks that give you something extra than ones that take things away from you like not being able to pick ip grenades from dead bodies.
Click to expand...

I think the game needs more give and take in order to truly balance the packages and AAs.

There should be a true reason you pick something with an advantage and a disadvantage.

For instance, if you have shielding, your base movement would be slower. This would allow you to get back into combat quicker, but you'd need to choose your engagements more wisely.

Another example would be mobility. If you have mobility equipped, you would start with less shield strength making you able to get around the map more quickly, but in more of a sneaky, rogue-like fashion to truly cater to that play style.

Tribes does this well, Shadowrun does this well with the different classes. A Troll in SR has more health than all other classes, but moves slower and is a much bigger target. An Elf in SR has the lowest health of all classes, but is the fastest and skinniest of all the classes.

If you're going to force players to make a choice with their AAs and Packages, it needs to be a conscious decision with a give and a take; an actual thought process being involved as to why you're picking certain abilities over others.

Take the Ninja Troll in Shadowrun. A typical Ninja Troll would have a Katana primary with a SMG secondary. Its slotted magic and tech would be Wired Reflexes, Teleport, and AMG's or Gust. A typical troll in SR was meant to be a Tank, one that could take a lot of damage and stay in a fight.

However, the Katana in the hands of a troll was only a 2 hit kill. So, players would SACRIFICE the ability to take lots of damage and use the trolls unique "harden" ability which cost mana to fill those slots with Wired Reflexes so it could have a faster base movement speed along with teleport which cost 3 mana slots with each use. Trolls also had the slowest mana regen of all 4 classes.

So, you sacrificed a LOT of what made the Troll class and Troll and in return, if you were sneaky enough, knew enough teleport lines, and made great flanking decisions, you had a class that was unique that you could play in a strong way, but at the cost of what would typically be the Trolls strengths.
 
G

Gabotron ES

Member
Swarmerr said:
This is true but I feel that if any mlg settings are made there will be many things that hit the chopping block. I personally would love to see mlg just mirror the settings of halo 4 matchmaking exactly that way there is no gap between normal and "competitive" settings. (I know many players that don't respect the skill of mlg players because to them mlg players play a completely different game)

Tbh though, how many people in mlg will actually want to use halo 4 game settings from matchmaking?

To the point of win/loss, everything frankie is saying about skill based rank leads me to believe there is little hope for it coming to fruition. I hope I am wrong.



The problem is as halo continues to change more and more from its previous installments it becomes near impossible to recreate a H2 or CE. At some point I feel we just have to try and fully accept what 343 is trying to do with Halo and see what happens.

Granted I am very skeptical about many things in Halo 4 and I would really love to play a CE or H2 but it just isn't practical to try and recreate old games in new halos as the mechanics are completely different. (because they are meant to support the new halo not old ones)
Click to expand...
This is not the case with Halo 4, plus there'll be a classic hopper.

I'm pretty excited for Infinity Slayer.
 
S

StalkerUKCG

Banned
Mister Negative said:
I would never, ever want normal speed while carrying the flag. Flag juggling adds another layer of skill and it gives you a choice: Do you want to do the stealthy, slow cap, or the fast, loud cap?
Click to expand...

I think it should change with gametype and map and such. I mean if its a huge map id be perfectly fine if i was allowed normal running speed with the flag. Its bad grabbing the flag on blood gulch and having to wait around in the base for a vehicle to come. I know the map has teleporters but its expected for someone to use them.

However i completely agree if we are talking about maps the size of The Pit for example. I love grabbing the flag on The Pit and Sneaking it home but i see why people juggle it.
 
G

Gunnerdude

Neo Member
Slightly Live said:
How about being forced to wield a pistol with unlimited ammo if your holding the flag, which you automatically switch to when grabbing the flag and automatically switch away from when you drop the flag. That means you don't use the flag as a weapon, it's on your back, no juggling.

You still have to reload. You walk slightly slower. No sprinting.
Click to expand...

Halo 1 Pistol and you got yourself a deal!

Pick up the flag, become a god!
 
H

HigherLevel

Member
The Longbow gameplay from RTX looks so good. I wish it came out sooner than November.

Also, I know a lot of people here hate these new changes, but the base gameplay just looks so good I don't even know if it will matter. They appeared to have nailed the gunplay, movement, and vehicle handling.
 
S

StalkerUKCG

Banned
ARMOR ABILITIES

Hardlight Shield: Hardlight was great, It worked just how I thought it would, it deflected grenades if they hit it (but not very far away). All in all, I liked it a lot. My second favorite for sure! *You Can Crouch While Using It!!!*
Click to expand...

That's crazy interesting. How does it even work, Does the shield shrink. Does it clip into the ground. Do you move mega slow.
 
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