Gabotron ES
Member
Guys, guyz... TWO days till the FIRE RISES.
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Halo |OT6| I will not allow you to leave this thread!
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Xx Overkill VR
Banned
But don't you get it, those things go hand in hand.
The UI is only as useful as it is easy to navigate.
They can throw a ton more pages into the service record but if it is a hassle to get to them then it will be a waste.
Sure. Darksiders 2 will be sitting on the store shelves alone this Christmas. Unloved.
Both. Figure I'll be playing spops in the early morning before work, like I did with Reach's co-op.
I really enjoy competitive play but am hamstrung by the fact that (1) I suck & hate being a liability for friends, and (2) I'm not online enough when everyone's in competitive. The most fun I had in Reach was in competitive customs.
Every beginning... has an end.
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
Aside from The South Park Game, Darksiders 2 is their best IP in the near future which is important since they are on the brink of going under.
They're situation is so bad that they are already doing a Saints Row 4 a year after 3.
SodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodiumSodium
Hydranockz
Member
Ding ding ding. Exactly. It doesn't. Welcome to the world of symbolic icons. Ask anyone who works with databases what that cylinder is and they'd say a database. There is no function being communicated at all. Databases are not round. Yet, it's an industry wide agreed-upon representation of a database.
Similarly, as was the case with Reaach beta AA icons, symbolic icons were used. Now, I am not saying these Halo 4 ones will stick but you have to at least consider the different implications of using symbolic over representative icons. From a dev standpoint, why would they need to know just by looking, what a particular AA does? They wouldn't as they already have a knowledge of the functions.
Once you know the function of an AA, the symbolic icon is essentially obselete. Our alphabet is a series of symbols and yet we work fine using the knowledge we learned as kids in terms of how the letters are pronounced and used.
Once again, I am not arguing that Reach icons are worse than Halo 4 ones. I am actually saying the principles behind the use of either icon are quite different.
i love you.
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
So instead of giving us information about the gametype and a picture of the map they give us super large images of everyone's spartans?
Why not IDK, streamline it by having the gamertags listed on the right hand side and then when highlighted show that massive gamer card, you know like it has been since forever?
I cannot imagine a 16 player lobby under that mess.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Every Generation Has A Legend. Every Journey Has A First Step. Every Saga Has A Beginning
Welcome to the...phantom menace!
Cool, hope to actually play more with you, in that case.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Holyshit how did I miss this? That's awesome.
And thank you for quoting that. I'd have totally missed it had you not.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Hey now, easy, I have personal involvement with THQ.
RE: Icons
I don't think the AA icons are going to be as important in 4 as Reach. In 4 we set our own load-outs BEFORE the game starts, and go into the menu and see the AA with a description. In Reach you had to choose during your respawn, which was sometimes as short as 3 seconds. So the quicker you could identify the better. I think being able to set up our class while not in a game in 4, and even rename that class, will make having a very telling icon less necessary.
User 73706
Banned
Gunnerdude
Neo Member
343 Industries.... Solving first world gaming problems for those who woke up with a crick in their neck and couldn't hold their head up right due to the extreme pain.
Bravo, bravo.
(personally I kid and this just reminds me of Halo 1 style menus but shuffled together to save space) (Won't knock it till I get to play it)
I almost puked. You are a bad man, a bad man.
Thanks for the suggestions on how to make video game forum posts, very helpful stuff. I will file it away for future reference, thanks.
I'll play Halo pretty much any time that I'm not already in another multiplayer session (lately trying to get better in Street Fighter IV).
Please save me from my Spelunky problem. It's not healthy.
Halo 4: no tate mode.
Just doing a community service.
I thought that was the 2009 Star Trek movie tagline. :/
The Librarian
Banned
And why is that? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but I'm curious because I do want to give good feedback on anything I can. I can see what you're saying is bad in isolation, but if someone doesn't like a design because they think there is a better design intent than the one being used, why is that bad?
I really don't feel like getting into this – and I doubt people want to read a discussion about how to best convey functions through an icon – but I'm really taking issue with the way you're trying to prove your point. Context is everything.
Quick question; Can you tell me what this is? It is a very commonly used icon. What does it represent and what function is instantly being communicated?
Let me use you your way, but I'll give it some context. Let's say we grab an average Joe off the street. We told him about a game – Halo 3 – and we told him within that game that there are pieces of equipment that do certain things. He knows about each equipment and what it does. He knows what the bubble shield looks like and what it does, what the energy drainer looks like and does, and so on. What he does not know is the specific icon Bungie assigned for each equipment.
If I were to give him all the icons Bungie made for the equipment in Halo 3, and asked him to assign the right icon to its corresponding equipment, do you think he'll get them all right? Do you think he'd match this with the regenerator?
Now let's do the same thing, but with Reach. Same rules apply: he doesn't know the icons, but he knows about all the armor abilities and what each one does. Do you think he would have an easier time matching up the right icon to the corresponding AA with the icons Bungie chose for Reach?
I know you're saying the intents behind the design in Reach and Halo 4 are different, and nobody is disagreeing with that. What some are saying is that one is better than the other, and are asking why 343 isn't going with the better design. And again, I have stated that there aren't advantages or disadvantages to either design intent (and the resulting design) except one is easier to memorize and grasp. All advantages and disadvantages are swept under the rug once you become familiar with either set of icons.
I'm a bit indifferent. I would certainly prefer Reach's icon design, but like Halo 3 I'll learn the icons once I've played Halo 4 enough.
YourExWife
Member
This is very true. That's why it pisses me off so much when I see texts here or there use it as a volume or server/cluster. W. T. F.
srslygais
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Out of curiosity, does anyone think there should be a gaming side thread for the Spartan Ops gameplay mission footage we have?
I agree that the AA Icons do not really show in any way what they do. Also, they all look very cluttered and similar, so hopefully 343 end up tweaking those to give them a better sense of visual identity for practicality alone.
Oh, cool. Do you have a link to the video or thread this is from? I'd like to see that in action.
I don't see how this is even related. The AA icons in Reach do a very effective job of letting a player know what they do:
It's a valid criticism that the H4 icons don't communicate that well what each ability does.
I agree that the AA Icons do not really show in any way what they do. Also, they all look very cluttered and similar, so hopefully 343 end up tweaking those to give them a better sense of visual identity for practicality alone.
from r/halo (promethean grenade)
Oh, cool. Do you have a link to the video or thread this is from? I'd like to see that in action.
Hydranockz
Member
Hey now, easy, I have personal involvement with THQ.
RE: Icons
I don't think the AA icons are going to be as important in 4 as Reach. In 4 we set our own load-outs BEFORE the game starts, and go into the menu and see the AA with a description. In Reach you had to choose during your respawn, which was sometimes as short as 3 seconds. So the quicker you could identify the better. I think being able to set up our class while not in a game in 4, and even rename that class, will make having a very telling icon less necessary.
I'd say Deadly Cyclone answered just that. The difference between Halo 4 and Reach is where and when you choose the AA you want.
ElRenoRaven
Member
And Dax hits the nail on the head. 343 has said they're wanting this to be an on ramp back into the Halo universe. So you'd think that they would want things to be as easy as they can for newer or hell even lapsed players. And I think the well you can pick them in the load out set up is ok and fine. However not everyone is going to bother with that and even then once you set several up when switching you're not going to see the descriptors again that you saw when setting them up.
Poker Face
Member
the thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/wq3wt/brief_glimpse_of_promethean_empnade_found_on/
its from the HQ spartan ops video
I dont know why... Because its really droll and not as funny as it hit me... But I just got funny looks from the other patrons eating breakfast in Another Broken Egg when I laughed too loudly.
Thanks
squidhands
Member
Do you really need to see a horizontal xXJonesyMcPotsmoke420Xx that badly? The menu may look ugly as hell so far and is too much of a divergence from Bungie's elegance, but the text reading is hardly an issue with me.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Hmmm, What is your timezone?
Glad you're taking this discussion to heart, you could use it.
There isn't anything bad about it as long as they convey that. Saying 'this is garbage get your shit together' doesn't convey 'I think this design is poorly executed and I'd like to see something like this...'
Thinking there is a better way to design something and articulating that is better than just saying you don't like something, or that it is shit (or telling Frank to tell the design team to get their shit together)
How is this even possible? What dev specifically thinks this is a good idea?
Frankles... Where you at brah...
Are you really asking me whether I'd want to read words horizontally?
YourExWife
Member
Hmmmm... - I must try this joint at some point in my life, even though the "Southwest Scramble" sounds a little tame...
Besides the text being horizontal, are you okay with it's design in general? I like it, it would just help, if the text was normal. I guess, they are doing this for the smartglass thing.
The icons for AAs should be nearly identical to Reach. For 2 years, we have associated specific icons with each armor ability. No point in changing them, they were simple and functional.
I don't really care for the new designs either. I don't want abstract art as UI, it's just not functional. Don't fix what isn't broken, etc. As for the new armor abilities, I'd say to make icons in the same style as Reach as well. Also, the philosophy of these new designs kind of goes against the whole "make Halo more accessible", though that's a mild nitpick, really.
That said, I do think that those designs aren't anywhere close to final, and are more than likely just a simple placeholder.
I don't really care for the new designs either. I don't want abstract art as UI, it's just not functional. Don't fix what isn't broken, etc. As for the new armor abilities, I'd say to make icons in the same style as Reach as well. Also, the philosophy of these new designs kind of goes against the whole "make Halo more accessible", though that's a mild nitpick, really.
That said, I do think that those designs aren't anywhere close to final, and are more than likely just a simple placeholder.
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
Since we're talking about Halo 3 equipment, from left to right: Auto Turret, Bubble Shield, Camo, Portable Shield, Flare, Grav Lift, Invincibility, Power Drainer, Radar Jammer, Regen, Trip Mine
Over half of those directly represent what the Equipment looks like. The only ones that may be confusing are Camo, Invincibility, Radar and Regen. Hardly arbitrary icons unlike Halo 4.
Over half of those directly represent what the Equipment looks like. The only ones that may be confusing are Camo, Invincibility, Radar and Regen. Hardly arbitrary icons unlike Halo 4.
Since we're talking about Halo 3 equipment:
Over half of those directly represent what the Equipment looks like. The only ones that may be confusing are Came, Invincibility, Radar and Regen.
I like those.
Perhaps a good middle ground would the hexagonal stylings the current H4 icons have, but placed into more concise shapes(like those above) to convey their function.
I had that the last time I was here. It was pretty good. Going with the Crab Stack this morning.
Pretty good eats...
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
It would be a complete mess under 16 players.
I'm definitely curious as to what the matchmaking pregame lobbies look like, now more than ever. If they share the same style of four-block top UI for voting like the custom game UI does for options, that means that the current iteration has the players' progression rank below the cutoff point when you're up selecting voting/custom options, when it's probably the most important information about the player to display. If ranks can't be seen at a glance without having to pop down into the lower half of the screen, that seems like a very strange choice to make.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Oh, wow, Im pretty sure that video is new to me, and different from the most recent HQ video. So that makes 4 Spartan Ops videos now? Anyways, you can see it in action from 11:02-11:08, someone should gif it.. here are some caps of the EMP effect:
Since we're talking about Halo 3 equipment:
Over half of those directly represent what the Equipment looks like. The only ones that may be confusing are Came, Invincibility, Radar and Regen.
:lol I played Halo 3 for 3 years and I couldn't tell you what each of those are. I can get most.
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
Forcefield the Promethean grenade gives off.
EDIT: Hehe looks like Demoncarnotaur and I had the same idea.
If it sticks to walls then its the Magic Drainer from Shadowrun.
Kinda cool that there are more area of effect weapons in the game, by that I mean things that can be used to deny movement through doorways or w/e.
Sticky Detonator and Promethean Grenades.
I imagine the EMP will disrupt vehicles and drain shields.
OTT, the One True Timezone (Eastern).
Forcefield the Promethean grenade gives off.
EDIT: Hehe looks like Demoncarnotaur and I had the same idea.
Ooo fancy. So do they stick or do they bounce? Do we know?
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
To be fair though the entire argument of the icons of the equipment is null since you always had to pick them up on the map therefor their actual physical appearance is what distinguished them and not their icons.
With loadouts its an entirely different story and is why Bungie made the icons less arbitrary.
Also there was at most 3 different equipment on any given map, most didn't have many at all.
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