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[StalkerUKCG]

In terms of asthetics they really do not look like part of the existing UI.

Take the Ordnances meter for example. That looks great simple and blends with the UI its the complete opposite of the convoluted and confusing AA symbols. Reach had them perfect if you ask me, i dont see why they didnt just port them over.

These + the old icons and we are gold.

 

[Shadders]

Ding ding ding. Exactly. It doesn't. Welcome to the world of symbolic icons. Ask anyone who works with databases what that cylinder is and they'd say a database. There is no function being communicated at all. Databases are not round. Yet, it's an industry wide agreed-upon representation of a database.

Similarly, as was the case with Reaach beta AA icons, symbolic icons were used. Now, I am not saying these Halo 4 ones will stick but you have to at least consider the different implications of using symbolic over representative icons. From a dev standpoint, why would they need to know just by looking, what a particular AA does? They wouldn't as they already have a knowledge of the functions.

Once you know the function of an AA, the symbolic icon is essentially obselete. Our alphabet is a series of symbols and yet we work fine using the knowledge we learned as kids in terms of how the letters are pronounced and used.

Once again, I am not arguing that Reach icons are worse than Halo 4 ones. I am actually saying the principles behind the use of either icon are quite different.

I've studies semiotics at some length and feel that your idea of "it's ok, once they've used it they'll remember" is very lazy. Semiotics is a whole school of science surrounding the way the human brains recognise and identify iconography. Just because you can point to poor examples of icnonography that are widely used doesn't mean that all iconography should be poor.

Also, it would be difficult to come up with an icon in a 32 pix square that would communicate "database", so the drum was agreed upon.

When creating a suite of icons there are some paramount considerations:

- All icons should communicate their meaning (whether abstract or not)
- Icons should be distinct from one another so they are not confused.
- Icons should be thematically similar

For good examples see road signs or the Reach AA icons.

These icons (we'll call them A to E from top to bottom) fall foul on a number of key points.

- B is not thematically similar to the other icons
- None really communicate their meaning other than B, the one with the arrows (C & D) for example is the HLS, why is that?
- D is thrusters, but looks more like an open eye?
- And the worst issue is that at a glance they all look very similar

Have a read about semiotics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics it's fascinating stuff.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

OTT, the One True Timezone (Eastern).

Noted. Will try to get some games in with you on H4 at least.

Also as Demon said, that video is new to me, it's also awesome.

Although, legendary doesn't look very challenging IMO.

 

[Tunavi]

This is what HaloGAF has become, 1v1s for women sized shirts.

 

[Xx Overkill VR]

*snip

Whats a thurster pack?

 

[squidhands]

Are you really asking me whether I'd want to read words horizontally?

Assuming the screen in question will be the final product, my real question is how difficult is it for you to read. I'm sure you've noticed that when you choose a gamertag to look at, the text goes horizontal. I just don't see any real comprehension issue here, but I do think that it's ugly and too reminiscent of the old school xbox home screen blade format (which was terrible and rightly fixed).

 

[Xx Overkill VR]

Assuming the screen in question will be the final product, my real question is how difficult is it for you to read. I'm sure you've noticed that when you choose a gamertag to look at, the text goes horizontal. I just don't see any real comprehension issue here, but I do think that it's ugly and too reminiscent of the old school xbox home screen blade format (which was terrible and rightly fixed).

No reason it can't be an improved version of the already great gamertag list on the right side...

Everything is horizontal and we don't have a giant clutter.

 

[The Librarian]

Since we're talking about Halo 3 equipment:

*images*
Over half of those directly represent what the Equipment looks like. The only ones that may be confusing are Came, Invincibility, Radar and Regen.

And energy drainer, and flash, and invincibility, and turret. The rest I'd best describe as "maybe" with the possible exception of the bubble shield.

There isn't anything bad about it as long as they convey that. Saying 'this is garbage get your shit together' doesn't convey 'I think this design is poorly executed and I'd like to see something like this...'

Thinking there is a better way to design something and articulating that is better than just saying you don't like something, or that it is shit (or telling Frank to tell the design team to get their shit together)

I see where you're coming from now. Thank you for your responses!

I'd say Deadly Cyclone answered just that. The difference between Halo 4 and Reach is where and when you choose the AA you want.

RE: Icons
I don't think the AA icons are going to be as important in 4 as Reach. In 4 we set our own load-outs BEFORE the game starts, and go into the menu and see the AA with a description. In Reach you had to choose during your respawn, which was sometimes as short as 3 seconds. So the quicker you could identify the better. I think being able to set up our class while not in a game in 4, and even rename that class, will make having a very telling icon less necessary.

I think Deadly brings up a good point. You can name your loadouts and such, so there's less of a need for the icons to convey what the AAs do. However, judging from the loadout screens like this

from E3, SDCC, and RTX, it seems 343 still wants players to be able to see, at a glance, what each of their loadouts have. Meaning they want to convey certain information quickly, and so I would still argue Reach's icon design is better suited for the game.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Whats a thurster pack?

Its when you need a drink.

Fuck me those sun bleached areas of cauldron towards the end look amazing, the terrain detail and lighting blew my mind.

 

[Overdoziz]

Besides the text being horizontal, are you okay with it's design in general? I like it, it would just help, if the text was normal. I guess, they are doing this for the smartglass thing.

I dislike the entire custom lobby screen. They should go back to what Halo Reach has and add more information about the gametype and you're done. That way you don't have to highlight every player to read their name horizontally and you've got more space for more information about the gametype or whatever. Display what the score limit is, what the reset and recovery time on the flag/bomb/oddball is. Information like that is actually useful. Instead half the screen is filled with player cards with people's spartans on it.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Wtf has hydra really spent like 5 pages arguing against people simply pointing out that pictoral icons are more useful than abstract ones. Why hydra lol?

If abstract icons are no more useful than pictoral icons then why choose them? Halo is a video game and ultimately even though people will eventually learn the icons there will be new players on it all the time/ players who take over a controller for a short while. I know I'm a lot more fussy over UI stuff than most but if doing pics has clear advantages why do it the other way?

 

[Hydranockz]

And energy drainer, and flash, and turret. The rest I'd best describe as "maybe" with the possible exception of the bubble shield.

I see where you're coming from now. Thank you for your responses!


I think Deadly brings up a good point. You can name your loadouts and such, so there's less of a need for the icons to convey what the AAs do. However, judging from the loadout screens like this

from E3, SDCC, and RTX, it seems 343 still wants players to be able to see, at a glance, what each of their loadouts have. Meaning they want to convey certain information quickly, and so I would still argue Reach's icon design is better suited for the game.

Yeah, I can definitely agree that Reach's system would work. On the extreme end of my point, it would be like giving each AA a letter. Sure I can see "BR + 'A'" but I might forget what that 'A' is at some point down the line. Of course, there exists a happy medium there too seeing as the icons we've seen aren't that abstract so the likelihood of forgetting is reduced.

Apologies Dax if I wasn't the easiest to discuss that with.

Like Shadders said, semiotics is fasinating stuff. It's come up a few times in my course and it seems like an easy thing to brush off, but it's really interesting to be aware of.

Edit: Yeah bobs, no.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Yeah, I can definitely agree that Reach's system would work. On the extreme end of my point, it would be like giving each AA a letter. Sure I can see "BR + 'A'" but I might forget what that 'A' is at some point down the line. Of course, there exists a happy medium there too seeing as the icons we've seen aren't that abstract so the likelihood of forgetting is reduced.

Apologies Dax if I wasn't the easiest to discuss that with.

Like Shadders said, semiotics is fasinating stuff. It's come up a few times in my course and it seems like an easy thing to brush off, but it's really interesting to be aware of.

Edit: Yeah bobs, no.

You clearly meant to type "Yeah bobs, yes." considering the content of the rest of your post

I have yet to see what the Auto-Sentry turret looks like in the build. Is it even a good ordnance at least? I only knew someone gave it a "Meh" impression, but that was the guy who hacked the closed beta.

Oh interesting, I didn't know it was a part of the build/ that the build has been hacked???

 

[NobleGundam]

I have yet to see what the Auto-Sentry turret looks like in the build. Is it even a good ordnance at least? I only knew someone gave it a "Meh" impression, but that was the guy who hacked the closed beta.

 

[Trey]

A little more informative version of Reach's UI would have hurt no one, I'll agree.

 

[Akai__]

I dislike the entire custom lobby screen. They should go back to what Halo Reach has and add more information about the gametype and you're done. That way you don't have to highlight every player to read their name horizontally and you've got more space for more information about the gametype or whatever. Display what the score limit is, what the reset and recovery time on the flag/bomb/oddball is. Information like that is actually useful. Instead half the screen is filled with player cards with people's spartans on it.

Have we any confirmation, that this is going to be our matchmaking screen, too?

 

[The Henery]

I couldn't care less if they change the icon designs for AA's or not. Either way I'll memorise which is what as I did in Halo 3. The question is: why would 343 needlessly complicate the AA symbols from their Reach versions when they're desperately striving to sanitise the rest of the game in order to make it accessible to people who've never played a videogame before?

If they're putting waypoint indicators above grenades on the floor (what else could they be?), why would they change the instant recognition of the easily discernible Reach icons?

 

[Overdoziz]

Have we any confirmation, that this is going to be our matchmaking screen, too?

My guess is that's going to be the same but with the top half displaying information about which playlists you're in etc. instead of the custom game information.

 

[Xx Overkill VR]

Progressively less information related to the action important information (THE GAMETYPE SETTINGS!) is shown through the years.

In Reach the bottom left of the lobby could have used more information in pregame.

If their reasoning for changing it in Halo 4 is "too much wasted space" giving us giant pictures of players spartan models won't help. Reach did it well with the entire active roster thing but the service records themselves were severely lacking. Commendations mean nothing and to get a good look at online multiplayer stats was quite a few clicks away not to mention Arena was even deeper in there.

Take Reach active roster, streamline it, no silly commendations and armory completion, show skill level of some kind or something, give us an easy to navigate file browser for the fileshare and then give info on the game settings on the left side near the picture of the map.

Done.

 

[Fracas]

^if you want to make pics smaller, wrap it in quote tags

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

For those interested, you can sort of see the Promethean SMG like weapon being shot at the player in this video around 8:32. Its the same video that contains the Promethean grenade in action, and its the first time I have seen it posted. Also, they are playing on legendary.

 

[Akai__]

My guess is that's going to be the same but with the top half displaying information about which playlists you're in etc. instead of the custom game information.

Well, I will getting used to it.

For all those TDKR fans, here is the live stream of it's premiere in London. The Dark Knight Rises Premiere

 

[Xx Overkill VR]

For those interested, you can sort of see the Promethean SMG like weapon being shot at the player in this video around 8:32. Its the same video that contains the Promethean grenade in action, and its the first time I have seen it posted. Also, they are playing on legendary.

Spiker re-skin

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I wonder if we will look back at some of these arguments on November 6th and laugh at how silly we were for thinking certain things were final/horrible.

 

[User 73706]

I have yet to see what the Auto-Sentry turret looks like in the build. Is it even a good ordnance at least? I only knew someone gave it a "Meh" impression, but that was the guy who hacked the closed beta.

The only thing we know is that it has fast killtimes but wasn't very fun to use. I'm assuming that since it can be destroyed and dies when you do, it'd be difficult to use unless you had some long-term planning in mind. Example:

You're sniping on a perch atop your base, and there's only one doorway to get up there. Place the turret in/around the doorway either to mop up guys looking for assassinations or to let you know when a team's on their way to kill you.

I can see it being unfun because it doesn't really have the "instant gratification" some other abilities provide like hardlight shield or thruster. As far as balance goes, I have a feeling it'll be a lot like Halo 3's auto-turret: lethal, but really stupid AI that basically means you have to be standing in front of it (not to mention close to it) for it to be able to get kills, so it'd be better off in enclosed choke points--think a trip mine, but with a higher learning curve and more longevity.

 

[Xx Overkill VR]

I wonder if we will look back at some of these arguments on November 6th and laugh at how silly we were for thinking certain things were final/horrible.

Or they get changed by then from our criticisms?

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I wonder if we will look back at some of these arguments on November 6th and laugh at how silly we were for thinking certain things were final/horrible.

I wouldn't count on it if Reach is anything to go by lol

 

[Trey]

I don't like the sound of auto sentries.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I wouldn't count on it if Reach is anything to go by lol

343 is not quite Bungie. Plus we have seen far less of the game at this point compared to Reach.

 

[OverHeat]

I'm thinking of ordering this for my baby!
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/22439603/_bodysuit

 

[GodfatherX]

reposting with correct links, sorry about that

so how many songs do we have from Halo 4 so far?

A New Beginning
Requim
Encounter
Arrival


any others that I may have missed? so far this sounds amazing

 

[Fracas]

Loving the OST so much. All of it is really, really good IMO.

 

[L1NETT]

OST sounding really good so far. Hats of to Davidge.

 

[kylej]

I'm still amazed by that lobby UI.

 

[NobleGundam]

The only thing we know is that it has fast killtimes but wasn't very fun to use. I'm assuming that since it can be destroyed and dies when you do, it'd be difficult to use unless you had some long-term planning in mind. Example:

You're sniping on a perch atop your base, and there's only one doorway to get up there. Place the turret in/around the doorway either to mop up guys looking for assassinations or to let you know when a team's on their way to kill you.

I can see it being unfun because it doesn't really have the "instant gratification" some other abilities provide like hardlight shield or thruster. As far as balance goes, I have a feeling it'll be a lot like Halo 3's auto-turret: lethal, but really stupid AI that basically means you have to be standing in front of it (not to mention close to it) for it to be able to get kills, so it'd be better off in enclosed choke points--think a trip mine, but with a higher learning curve and more longevity.

I'd maybe use it for some objective close-quarters maps. In a CTF match with the flag inside your base would be semi-useful (hopefully). If it has a stupid A.I. like what your example of that bad auto-turret in Halo 3 was, then it's not worth an ordnance drop imo. But so far it sounds okay? Fast killtimes isn't bad, but the response time is what I'm more concerned when using it.

 

[raindoc]

noone except me cares, but:

i only played a handful of games in H3 and now I almost pissed myself when i saw this as symbol for the Radar Jammer:

because: the old logo of the Austrian Broadcasting Company (www.orf.at):

EDIT: is there a way to resize images using vB code?

 

[Hydranockz]

noone except me cares, but:

i only played a handful of games in H3 and now I almost pissed myself when i saw this as symbol for the Radar Jammer:


because: the old logo of the Austrian Broadcasting Company (www.orf.at):



EDIT: is there a way to resize images using vB code?

Not in vB code exactly but Gaf now automatically resizes quoted pictures. To make yours suitable, just wrap it in QUOTE tags.

 

[Xx Overkill VR]

noone except me cares, but:

i only played a handful of games in H3 and now I almost pissed myself when i saw this as symbol for the Radar Jammer:

because: the old logo of the Austrian Broadcasting Company (www.orf.at):

EDIT: is there a way to resize images?

Looks like the CBS - Columbia Broadcasting Company(ironically an American TV station) logo as well:

Also this:

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Looks like the CBS - Columbia Broadcasting Company(ironically an American TV station) logo as well:

Looks like 2 ellipses which is a very common symbol for design.

 

[NobleGundam]

so how many songs do we have from Halo 4 so far?

A New Beginning
Requim
Encounter
Arrival


any others that I may have missed? so far this sounds amazing

Newest Addition:
http://youtu.be/UKiVrjBEKKs

Edit: Also the links you've provided keeps sending to the same Youtube video "A New Beginning" for some Odd reason.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Between the Steam Sale and Batman I have not been keeping up with Halo. Has anything happened or is it still just bad UIs?

 

[Fuchsdh]

Between the Steam Sale and Batman I have not been keeping up with Halo. Has anything happened or is it still just bad UIs?

Bad UI all the way, with a sprinkling of bad character design.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Between the Steam Sale and Batman I have not been keeping up with Halo. Has anything happened or is it still just bad UIs?

The HaloGaf vs. 343 videos from CC are pretty good. Also a video of the full SpOps playthrough.

 

[Hydranockz]

Also this:

I've only ever seen the eye. Never realised it was a face of sorts! Dodongo's Cavern is now ruined for me!

 

[Reagan's BR]

The HaloGaf vs. 343 videos from CC are pretty good. Also a video of the full SpOps playthrough.

Awesome. You have a link to the SpOps?

Bad UI all the way, with a sprinkling of bad character design.

I figured as much.

 

[CyReN]

Awesome. You have a link to the SpOps?

• 1
• 2
• 3

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Awesome. You have a link to the SpOps?



I figured as much.

Cyren linked, it, let me see here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9jDOnLgnY4

EDIT: Beat by Cyren!

 

[JonCha]

Bad UI all the way, with a sprinkling of bad character design.

Bad character design? Are you dissing Cortana?

 

[Reagan's BR]

Thanks y'all!

 

[Fuchsdh]

Bad character design? Are you dissing Cortana?

Where were you when we discussed the Godzilla Jackals and Locust Grunts?

Saying 'bad' character design is a little misleading because I think all the design is good, but not when you should be attempting some continuity with the games with lower numbers before yours.