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Halo |OT6| I will not allow you to leave this thread!
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Xx Overkill VR
Banned
How would you treat non-guest accounts in split screen?
A good number of people play 2 player split online but the number of 4 player split is extremely small what with the needing 4 controllers and 4 people at your place and all.
Its just them catering to the lowest common denominator fucking the rest of the population.... SMH
Poker Face
Member
theres your problem.
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
Solution to horrible map design = Hot Potato
The Real Napsta
Member
I forgot that map was in Reach.
That's why I specifically mentioned that it depends on how they advertise it. Notice I said "war games" up there, not just "online."
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
Yeah I know I was just saying that they could always chalk it up to technical and balance reasons for the exclusion of online 4 player split screen support in competitive multiplayer/matchmaking.
In this case, I probably wouldn't even raise an issue since we are just talking about icons meant to relay information to the player; while they could be more like Reach icons, that isn't the design intent. They are quite abstract currently, although I think readable enough; especially after looking at them a few times.
In general, critiquing design is just like anything else, substantive is better. I don't particularly like 'ugh, this is bad' or 'oh they did it wrong'. Personally not liking something is fine, saying it is wrong or bad just because you don't agree with the design intent is something I would generally take issue with.
The discussion about the icons seems fine to be honest, as most people are bringing up salient points in terms of readability. Yesterday we had the gem 'wtf frank tell your design team to get their shit together ffs' and a few other amazing points of discussion that pushed me to flip keyboards.
This...this is a good point. And I tend to agree wholeheartedly. This is the first summer I've been around a computer in about 3 years and had it been last year and they released a vidoc at this time it would have been at least 3.5-4 weeks till I could've seen it.
neoism
Member
I'm confused. I agree with what you're saying here, but I think you're saying the icons in Halo 4 have to be needlessly abstract. And I don't agree with your comparison of icons of AAs and weapons because they're two entirely different things. Isn't it just easier for icons of AAs – and only AAs, because they do not have the bells and whistles of guns, and because they only serve one function – to tell me what they do? Telling me what they do tells me what they are.
It's easier for me to learn that this
is the symbol for jetpack than it is for me to learn that this
is the symbol for...whatever. I have no idea.
Of course, once we memorize what each icon is for, you have it nailed down and you won't need the icons to tell you what they do. This was the way it was in Halo 3 albeit with simpler designs. For Reach, Bungie decided it was best to rework the icons for the new AAs because it was hard for players to memorize each icon for each piece of equipment in Halo 3. And in Reach it was much easier to memorize them. Yes, the job of an icon is to tell what something is, but in this case, it's easier to convey what it does – and in doing so, what it is.
Edit: Also, further clarification on one point. You can't have an icon for the BR or DMR tell you everything it does because the icon would become too cluttered. Why would you want an icon for the BR give its silhouette, that it has a 2x scope, kills in five shots to the head, and its best at medium to close range? That would be too cluttered. For AAs its easier because they only do one thing.
hopefully they are place holders....becasue they look stupid and tell me nothing....343 needs more Bungie artists. but its a shame if so that we are continuously miss informed all the way too whenever they show the final product. I've barely looked at much so I think i'ma stop. because we don't even get a beta this time. But they still showing an unfinshed game.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Oh great, now I want to play nuts and bolts!
Everyone here is asking for vidoc, just for clarification on a number of things.
As long as you state why you think the design is bad, its perfectly fine to critique design.
There have been totally valid criticisms presented against the UI, AA emblems, and even gameplay design like Armor Lock, jetpack, and power weapon placement and map design.
I disagree with the design intent of custom loadouts and starting with unlockable armor mods. If I wasn't on my phone id explain why, but it should be obvious.
Saying sword base and bloom sucks is an opinion.
If you present valid reasons why its criticism.
If you think about it they're handling the information in the same vein as a summer blockbuster. First there are teasers and leaks. Then some press and other celebs (in our case HaloGAF, HBO, MLG, etc.) get sneak peaks and previews of some footage.
When we're a few months from actual launch is when we should start seeing concrete outpouring of information. Especially when artwork, etc., is actually finalized and being polished.
Although it's ultimately frustrating for the core fanbase, it's probably best to treat information this way for now as it has the best possibility for the greatest amount of impact on the wider audience if it's timed correctly and more polished before it is revealed.
To be fair, we (as a team) weren't killing the hill guy at all until halfway through the game. We could have won easily with a little more organization and less "OMG FUCKING JETPACKS!!! RRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEE!!!"
It's not about losing, even if we won, I wouldn't have felt satisfied. It's just a terrible mechanic to me, and I fear for my enjoyment of 4 because of it.
Oh great, now I want to play nuts and bolts!
Everyone here is asking for vidoc, just for clarification on a number of things.
We say this often online but its a shame there are no "real" blockbuster releases coming out before 4. Like an august/sept release. Just thinkin back to when Reach was coming out Hydranockz and I were thinking of getting Bad Company 2 to tie us over till the Reach beta. Then Red Dead came and owned my whole summer.
Right now theres nothing else to look forward to.
The new icons do indeed look terrible. As does the game UI, which I've pointed out many a time, often to the detest of some 343 DFs in this thread.
I respect 343, and am pleased at certain aspects of Halo 4, but what I'm not advocating is pussy footing around criticism in order to save hurting Frank's feelings, an impression I do get from some people in this thread. I love Frank (not literally of course), and I appreciate how great he is at liaising with the community here, but let's not allow that to distort our honest impressions of the game as more and more media is rolled out, or filmed off screen in the absence of that.
The only way to make the final game better is to make our feelings known now about certain design elements we particularly disagree with. Better that than praise the game to high heaven, perhaps to an unfair degree, and then feel extra disappointed when we've got it in our hands.
I respect 343, and am pleased at certain aspects of Halo 4, but what I'm not advocating is pussy footing around criticism in order to save hurting Frank's feelings, an impression I do get from some people in this thread. I love Frank (not literally of course), and I appreciate how great he is at liaising with the community here, but let's not allow that to distort our honest impressions of the game as more and more media is rolled out, or filmed off screen in the absence of that.
The only way to make the final game better is to make our feelings known now about certain design elements we particularly disagree with. Better that than praise the game to high heaven, perhaps to an unfair degree, and then feel extra disappointed when we've got it in our hands.
This is basically what I was saying, just going about it in a slightly more inclusive and thorough manner.
See, this is a bad critique. 'it looks terrible' no substantiation.
ElzarTheBam
Member
The so called summer draught.
With climate change giving us wetter summers, you'd think some game producer would have copped on by now to put a few big releases around this time of year. In Western Europe anyways. Just puttin that out there.
Oh, come on. I've given hundreds upon hundreds of words in the past on my personal distaste for the UI, and Dax has given more than enough analysis here to outline why the new icons are, in the absence of a better description, shit. I don't need to rehash the same points to add my hat to the overwhelming majority.
The icons do not depict the abilities as clearly, nor as concisely, as the old icons did. Simply put.
Hydranockz
Member
You wouldn't happen to be pussyfooting calling me out for the sake of my feelings would you?
ElzarTheBam
Member
It was worse in the N64 era, especially seeing as Nintendo was notorious for their late PAL releases.
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
You would think some publishers would capitalize on this by now......
I doubt this is accurate.
While I agree that the look of the icons is a bit abstract, I thought the Reach icons were boring (regardless of how well they relayed their intent).
Talking about the 'UI' is a bit more complicated, as I'm not even sure if you're referring to the menu UI or the in-game UI.
Nope, not at all. In fact I did call you out the other day when you replied glibly, and rather vapidly to an opinion I held. You didn't respond.
Which bit do you think isn't accurate?
The icons need to instantly communicate a specific function. A spartan with a jetpack is more concise, and more readily apparent at doing so than a jumble of squiggles and circles. Aesthetically they're a bit more daring, and do mesh with the Forerunner design, but functionally they're a step back.
I'm referring to Menu UI; I think the HUD, or game UI is excellent.
I guess prices are down this time of year tho. Just looking at the success of the Steam Sale and local retailers like Gamestop and HMV have a few good deals. Unfortunately if I wanted any of those titles I would have bought them by now :/
Im sure nintendo will fill the summer void with awkward 3rd party titles like Dark Souls and Final Fantasy 13-2.
Hypertrooper
Member
Darksiders 2? It comes out next month.
Damn. It is pretty fucked up to create return label for the 343i hoodie. :/ UPS and Fedex do not do it for a private person like me.
YourExWife
Member
While I understand what you mean, everyone has known how terrible jetpacks are for years now. Having to constantly complain about them while playing or bringing it up in the middle of a game (not saying you, specifically, but teammates in general) does nothing for me but ruin the potential enjoyment that is still there, however small.
I've accepted that Reach has jetpacks and that it always will. I agree that it's a terrible MP design choice for a loadout ability and can basically nullify the incentive for map control/elevation advantage/etc. But while I'm playing, I'm still aiming to have fun (and have our team win of course). I'll save my rage about most things until the lobby or post somewhere or whatever. About the only thing I'll rage/complain about in-game is connection advantage (and lag, but who doesn't). Thanks to my geographical location, virtually every other person in the game has that over me.
Ya I played Anniversary BTB for the first time since it launched this morning and it's actually a lot of fun.
I agree - the abstract "snowflake" forerunner icons don't really communicate information at a glance. Although I'm willing to bet they are placeholder images that will be refined before launch.
They could easily use the forerunner aesthetic, even the geometric snowflake outline, and drop a image of a jetpack, thruster, etc. in the middle of the icon.
Hydranockz
Member
Hah, sweet. Then, tell me, oh all knowing Arnie, what are my "honest impressions of the game as more and more media is rolled out"? You see, I too "respect 343, and am pleased at certain aspects of Halo 4".
Oh sorry, better to hate on the game to... make it better? Can't be seen liking what I've seen, nope. "Better that than praise the game to high heaven, perhaps to an unfair degree". What's unfair about what I enjoy, Arnie?
"Then feel extra disappointed when we've got it in our hands." Hahaha, you should know more than most that I love Reach. Play it quite a lot.
So quick to diss on me Arnie. Shame really.
squidhands
Member
I have these (little older model, truth be told), and they are amazing. Had them since 2007, and still using the same rechargeable batteries. Optical audio, no wires on the headset at all. Lightweight, the only downside is you have to use the xbox wireless mic when you want to yell at people.
It's pricey, but well worth the money in the long run.
hahahaha this is amazing. Literally none of what you're quoting or getting your panties in a twist about relates to you, or was written with you in mind. This is like someone starting a fight with their own shadow.
My response was aimed at your ':lol' comment the other day. I still have no idea what you meant.
If so, great. As they are now I think they do a clumsy job at defining abilities that've been clearly signposted in the past.
The 'overwhelming majority' part.
I agree with you that the Reach icons communicate specific function faster, I just think they are boring. I prefer the new design.
They will likely change, but the intent they were designed with at that point is pretty clear; they aren't as clear as Reach icons and try to fit with a forerunner aesthetic. That may change completely, or it may not.
From previous builds, they have definitely changed. However unless a design shift comes down, I doubt they will change dramatically.
The release schedule from Aug-Nov is bizarre, at least compared to what we're used to from the past years.
There are definitely XBLA games I'm excited about for August, but a lot of the retail releases just leave me cold. Halo 4 is really the only retail release that interests me this year, and that largely for multiplayer.
Hydranockz
Member
Quick question; Can you tell me what this is? It is a very commonly used icon. What does it represent and what function is instantly being communicated?
Gunnerdude
Neo Member
Quick question; Can you tell me what this is? It is a very commonly used icon. What does it represent and what function is instantly being communicated?
Donkey Kong Jr. 30K Edition, now with STEEL SPACE BARRELS!
hahhaahaha no.
Never looked interesting. Someone on youtube said they actually regret wasting their time with that at E3 and wished they were playing something else. Enemies are supposed to be boring and repetitive.
it was delayed cuz it sucks so bad
I agree with all of this, but my original post was about Halo 4 & how I hope the jetpack isn't the same. Those dudes were complete trash, which is probably why I was salty to begin with last night.
Quick question; Can you tell me what this is? It is a very commonly used icon. What does it represent and what function is instantly being communicated?
It's not an icon I'm familiar with, but Google's telling me it's a database icon. I'm not entirely sure how that correlates with a range of icons aimed at telegraphing armour abilities within a few seconds, though.
ElRenoRaven
Member
ROFLMAO. I like your style. I don't care what that icon represents myself. If I can't tell what it represents and I can't then it sucks as an icon. I do agree that an icon should convey what it's for or what it's function should be. Sadly there are a lot out there which don't do this. This is very important in a videogame space though.
LEAVE THQ ALONE.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Competitve or Spops, or both? I've never really seen you on reach for competitive.
Only, that one time where I played a game with you and Hedge, whilst I was half asleep.
Xx Overkill VR
Banned
I can't imagine it is very informative if it takes up that much space on the screen in regards to the pregame lobby.
I wonder how navigating a player's service record will be... I doubt it can get worse that Reach but who knows.
User 73706
Banned
I know I'm in the minority here and this argument usually applies to gameplay rather than UI, but as long as everything's functional and streamlined (especially if it turns out 343 figures out a few new UI tricks for additional optimizing that Bungie didn't) the new UI can look like it's being run by a potato for all I care.
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