OdysseusVA
Banned
Less than 200 playing in Super Slayer and Arena? Wtf
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Halo |OT7| You may leave, Juices. And take Team Downer with you.
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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Poker Face
Member
Are we talking about the same Halo 2 beta?
nah
Are we talking about the same Halo 2 beta?
i can read your ip
Latvian Hitman
Member
The CoD franchise has been recycling the same graphics engine for 5+years. They make many concessions to get that 60fps on consoles: sub-HD screen resolution, awful textures, skyboxes that look like 8-bit gifs, a very basic physics engine, baked lighting and awful shading/shadowing, stiff animations and some pretty bad aliasing.
For CoD- those concessions were worth it. I don't think the same is true for Halo, in general. If you actually saw what would have to be given up in terms of resources to make a 60fps Halo game happen on this ancient hardware, my guess is that you'd probably opt out.
Halo does tricks like updating people at distance away from you less frequently, and also doesn't let you see their first person to hide the relatively low update frequency.
A spectator would be expected to view more of the map at once (flycam) , and people would want first person views. This would require the host to push more data to the spectating client, and also significantly increase the amount of updates sent to a client for first person views, otherwise they'll be jumpy and nauseating to look at.
Example: load up a film in Halo 3 or Reach on a gigantic map. It's more obvious in 3. Notice how smoothly everyone next to you moves. Then go across the map to players you couldn't see, and notice how much they 'skip' around, ie suddenly turning instead of smoothly turning, stuff like that. Now imagine updating all 16 players in a game so that you get usable first person views.
A spectator would be expected to view more of the map at once (flycam) , and people would want first person views. This would require the host to push more data to the spectating client, and also significantly increase the amount of updates sent to a client for first person views, otherwise they'll be jumpy and nauseating to look at.
Example: load up a film in Halo 3 or Reach on a gigantic map. It's more obvious in 3. Notice how smoothly everyone next to you moves. Then go across the map to players you couldn't see, and notice how much they 'skip' around, ie suddenly turning instead of smoothly turning, stuff like that. Now imagine updating all 16 players in a game so that you get usable first person views.
The Librarian
Banned
Unless I'm completely misreading your post, I think you're making rather silly equivalents of completely different guns, and in doing so being completely unfair to Halo 4 and giving Halo 1 a pass. If you're going to say the Needler, AR, and Plasma Rifle are redundancies of one another in Halo 4, you need to say the same for Halo 1.
Setting aside several other comparisons, I think it's a bit ridiculous to imply that the Needler and the AR are comparable in their roles or their functions. For one, the Needler isn't a starting weapon – as far as we know – and last time I checked, the AR doesn't fire pink needles that track an enemy to a certain degree and make them explode in a pink mist when enough of them make contact. How is one a redundancy of the other?
Same thing goes for the SD and the rockets. How are they similar in anyway? Again: How is one a redundancy of the other?
Those are the two most egregious examples I want to point out. I don't think the focus rifle has been confirmed, and what are Promethean rockets?
Edit: I think the point of your post was that Halo 4's sandbox is too crowded – and may be there's a point to be made there – but I wouldn't say it's filled to the brim with redundancy.
I don't think it was a matter of them not being able to implement it whatsoever, I think it was a matter of other things draining their resources and simply not having enough staff to add in something like spectator mode. Then again, they did have Certain Affinity do Forge (which arguably brought in no massive improvements, at least nothing to write it off as being substantially better then Reach's forge,) so I don't see why they couldn't have done the same with a spectator mode.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Are we talking about the same Halo 2 beta?
Lockout
Ivory Tower
Midship
Waterworks
Zanzibar
??
U4ix, your posts have been great recently. Makes this thread interesting to read, keep it up
AR and Storm Rifle are close to redundant I think (but I haven't played it so I can't make too many judgements)
But you do raise a good point, will Halo 4's sandbox be too cluttered. 15 primaries? Balancing that is going to be super difficult.
Dax, I may be wrong but I took it as their being inevitable redundancies due to the large number of weapons in H4. The people who have played H4 have said the Storm Rifle isn't much use, and with 15 primary there might be more.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Needler --> Useless
PP, PR, Shotgun, AR --> Redundant, but you don't think of them that way because they feel unique. The Rockets and Spartan Laser may both essentially be power weapons that wreak havoc, but you can't possibly think those weapons (along with some others) are more redundant when it was the same way in Halo 1.
Using redundancy to negatively describe weapons should only be used when all the weapons in that category suck ass -> ie: Halo 3's automatics.
Well said.
Poker Face
Member
thats the local ip of the xbox, not his ip.
Yea thats the one.
mongoose, weird flamethrower. the main menu looks much better in the beta than the final imo
Back from camping, caught up on the 1500 posts I missed.
...I didn't miss anything. :lol
Linksys WRT54GL.
Using various solutions, I've gotten to Open NAT for a few weeks at a time. Then, it would stop being Open, despite the settings not changing. Eventually I manually forwarded all the ports using Xbox Live Tech Support assistance. That lasted a few weeks, and then bam. Back to Moderate. I gave up and have been stuck at Moderate NAT since. Causes a number of issues, but after nearly a year of temporary fixes, I don't know what to do.
...I didn't miss anything. :lol
Linksys WRT54GL.
Using various solutions, I've gotten to Open NAT for a few weeks at a time. Then, it would stop being Open, despite the settings not changing. Eventually I manually forwarded all the ports using Xbox Live Tech Support assistance. That lasted a few weeks, and then bam. Back to Moderate. I gave up and have been stuck at Moderate NAT since. Causes a number of issues, but after nearly a year of temporary fixes, I don't know what to do.
P4A.
I've been trying to get a hold of Shadow, but no word. I'm leaving tomorrow for the rest of the week, so I was hoping to do it tonight.
I had the same router and the same crap. I eventually bought a new netgear router; OPEN NAT all day er day.
ArbiterMajor
Member
Yep, I have those.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Might be the same one then.
YourExWife
Member
Please, explain as much in-depth as you can (legally of course). Suffice to say, typical projects at my place of employment include doing essentially this exact thing but with T-38's (for example), GPS data, and "4G" transmissions over large and small distances.
Games as far back as Quake and the like had this feature (inb4moreadvancedgraphicsinternetcapabilityblahblah).
What if it was for LAN only?
ArbiterMajor
Member
You have a dev unit?
Joncha lives in Europe so the odds of it being tonight are probably pretty slim. I don't know what's going to happen as I haven't heard from anybody since sunday afternoon.
There seem to be some routers that will do that. I've only found a couple that are nice and easy to get an open NAT and keep it that way.
Like I said, I'm not a developer, but fans take things like "spectator mode" for granted. That's my point. I think it's absolutely a resource thing - but who knows. That being said - absolutely nothing wrong with Halo fans wanting it. Props to Treyarch for implementing it in BO2.
Poker Face
Member
its possible to run it on a softmodded xbox, or a jtag.
As a Linksys user for years I upgraded to a new router of theirs and it blew...so hard. I was getting about 12 dl, 0.6 up. Hard reset, exchanged for a brand new one, same problems.
Spent the extra money and got an Airport Extreme, no NAT problems, same internet service and tier and getting over 20 dl and 4 up. I would highly recommend it as it's super easy to use and set up.
VivaciousJazzy
Member
YourExWife
Member
I feel as though I've asked this a millioN timEs...
Exactly. It would just take time. 343 could just straight up say, sorry, we didn't put enough (any) people on it for it to be in the final product. Maybe somewhere down the line, guys.
Instead, we're left with vague "bandwidth" analogies and stupid bs like the customizable controls excuse.
The Librarian
Banned
Are you saying the post was criticizing hypothetical redundancies? Setting aside the possibility that he's right about inevitable redundancies, I still think that's being unfair to Halo 4 and 343i. For all we know, there won't be a Needler equivalent (as the storm rifle is to the AR), nor a pro-pie for the SD. Despite my desire for one.
Criticize them for what is, not for what might be. But just to be clear – u4ix could be right in this regard. I dunno. But I would hold back until we know for sure what's there before I say anything.
I'm a programmer and have worked in the game industry. For a simple implementation, a spectator would be less bandwidth than an extra player, and would take no additional resources beyond sending data to an extra console (the spectator wouldn't need to be involve in any of the CPU consuming aspects of the game simulation).
A complex version of spectator mode which would allow hundreds of spectators would still only take the bandwidth of a single player (from the perspective of the game host and players), except they'd require a spectator server farm. Basically a single connection would be established to a 4v4 game between the host and the spectator dedicated server, and then all spectator viewers would connect to this farm and received relayed data.
The spectator relay servers would definitely be relaying tons of data, and would be going through a lot of bandwidth but it wouldnt bog down the game itself and those playing it.
This is how PGR TV worked in PGR3 and 4.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Wouldn't be worth the Dev time in my opinion.
It's nice BO2 has it, but I don't think most are even going to use it, I personally would rather 343 funnels the resources into getting 4 player theatre working again, a very basic spectator mode for 1v1's would be nice but beyond that the limitations are probably not worth it, I dont know how CoD works but im willing to bet the lack of physics etc makes it possible.
ArbiterMajor
Member
PR in H1 had freeze, same with the PP, so I think I can get away with them being different.
The Needler in H1 was pointless, so it gets it's own category.
In later Halos, you'd be right. The Needler is different.
However, we've yet to see exactly how it'll function in H4.
THEY ALREADY SAID THEY DON'T HAVE THE BANDWIDTH, LIKE A MILLION TIMES.
I totally agree, although from what has been played, the Storm does seem a bit redundant. But of course until we find out more we can't be certain.
What would help, is some sort of Podcast, maybe with a Halo themed title.....explaining the balancing of the Halo 4 sandox....
Ahem.
Good stuff.
I'd love to see it happen more often.
I'm a huge fan of MLG and "competitive gaming" and absolutely would love this to come in my beloved Halo series.
Diminishing returns on time and money investment.jpg
Blackmagic just arrived! AND my roommate's Cintiq 24 HD. HOLY SHIT THAT THING IS HUGE.
The Henery
Member
Dunno. I just wonder why the host sending info to the client explanation Fyre spelt out isn't the case for COD. What's the distinction? I ask out of curiosity not contempt.
Inb4 343 threw LAN users under the bus for TU Reach so why would they care about the Halo 4 LAN community.
I'm not an Inheritor. I have nothing for you to steal!
Thanks.
Ultimately how does having multiple weapons filling the same role effect you? You pick the gun you like and as long as they're balanced it should be fine. Each map can have different power weapons that drop and sounds like there will some decent variety. You just play the game. I'm confused lol
Franklinator
Member
Depends on what you're buying. If you're buying a gold subscription, you can't remove it until the gold time runs out. I think you can remove it if you just buy points, but who knows with XBL.
If you're specifically looking to use Paypal to purchase points, I'd recommend Bestbuy's website which lets you pay with PayPal and you get a code right away.
I believe they were saying that CoD is poorly balanced and has redundancies, while Halo doesn't have those redundancies and is thus, better balanced.
The thing is that it doesn't have to be a full-blown mode. Just make it so people can switch between all the perspectives and you're practically done. Even just something like that would be a tremendous help for people who want to stream tournaments and LANs. And it would also be great for all the people watching the streams of these events.
Oh that could work too. Do you happen to have a link to the online points? I've never been to BB's website before and I'm scared I'll accidentally buy a physical card.
And yeah I'm just buying points.
YourExWife
Member
THANK YOU! FINALLY, someone who gets it!
This would be a given if one could spectate. You'd just spectate the POV of the film owner as they "play" the game.
Duly noted. I'll be sure to be rocking new hardware come Halo 4.
While I agree that the more variables you throw in the tougher is will be to balance but I don't think we can say anything until the game is out and in the hands of millions.
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