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[Swarmerr]

This also. Only "pros" and try-hards (sorry, only word I could come up with) would benefit from spectator mode. I'f I wanted to watch a game of someone play to learn, I'll go look at there films they have in there Fileshare, or just look on YouTube.

I think a movie is ALOT better. Lots of fans have been wanting one since who knows how long.. Plus, it helps 343 and Microsoft get Halo out there.

So lets advertise for a game that doesn't have all the features it could because we decided to advertise with a movie.

OR

They could continue with all the other advertising (besides the movie) and then once the game comes out let the game advertise itself because it has extra features that make the game game better.

I think a movie is good and all but in the end its just an advertisement for a game that I am going to PLAY. If that advertisement gets in the way of making the game that I am going to purchase and use then maybe that advertisement's price is a tad steep.

I think the thing that truly irks me is the fact that they have had four years to develop the game and somehow in all that time they haven't had the resources to make this feature come to fruition?! To me it sounds like they didn't even contemplate adding a spectator mode until someone asked them about it, but to be honest, who even knows?

 

[Mister Negative]

So you are saying Halo would be MLGs main game (there flagship game), just because there was a spectator mode? I respect the pro's, I'm just saying, this really doesn't affect how the game plays, or anything.

Maybe in Halo 5 if you bug 343 enough.

No, MLG has more or less abandoned Halo. I don't see them giving 4 much of a chance. But a spectator mode would allow new tournaments and start-up leagues to try to save the competitive side of Halo, if MLG does carry on ignoring it, with minimal financial investment.

 

[FyreWulff]

Allocating money and resources to various areas of development is not how anything works? ..or were you agreeing with me?

Stuff like Forward Unto Dawn and all that jazz would be coming out of a completely separate budget (usually marketing) and is being done by outside companies, unless 343 became a full fledged film-production studio since the last time I checked.

Halo Legends didn't take the place of another map pack for Halo 3.

The problem is there only is MLG. It would be nice if other leagues could pick up halo without making a huge investment with equipment and such but it is currently too expensive to. It would allow new or smaller leagues and local tournaments to be much more successful.

Maybe MS should take the Capcom strategy here

 

[VivaciousJazzy]

So you are saying Halo would be MLGs main game (there flagship game), just because there was a spectator mode? I respect the pro's, I'm just saying, this really doesn't affect how the game plays, or anything.

Maybe in Halo 5 if you bug 343 enough.

The problem is there only is MLG. It would be nice if other leagues could pick up halo without making a huge investment with equipment and such but it is currently too expensive to. It would allow new or smaller leagues and local tournaments to be much more successful.

 

[u4iX]

Stuff like Forward Unto Dawn and all that jazz would be coming out of a completely separate budget (usually marketing) and is being done by outside companies, unless 343 became a full fledged film-production studio since the last time I checked.

Well a few pages ago someone said something along the lines of "343 is in charge of everything in the Halo universe."

So I guess the term "universe" is being used loosely now.

 

[Akai__]

...You DO realize that MLG was bringing in millions of dollars back when Halo was their flagship game, right? It's not like people aren't affected by this. Just because you have a negative view of professional players doesn't mean that you get to dismiss a multi-million dollar industry that would be greatly benefitted by a spectator mode.

Do you think, that Halo would have success in the MLG again? I think most of the people stopped watching, because of Halo Reach and because of SC2.

It's probably hard to say now, because we don't know much about Halo 4, but from what we have seen so far, it looks like it could be successfull again.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Stuff like Forward Unto Dawn and all that jazz would be coming out of a completely separate budget (usually marketing) and is being done by outside companies, unless 343 became a full fledged film-production studio since the last time I checked.

Oh 343 isn't maintaining that part of the budget? I thought in this situation M$ gave them the $ and 343 was in charge of what to do with it.

Thanks for the clarification.

Well a few pages ago someone said something along the lines of "343 is in charge of everything in the Halo universe."

So I guess the term "universe" is being used loosely now.

That's where my confusion lays too lol

 

[u4iX]

Do you think, that Halo would have success in the MLG again? I think most of the people stopped watching, because of Halo Reach and because of SC2.

It's probably hard to say now, because we don't know much about Halo 4, but from what we have seen so far, it looks like it could be successfull again.

It's not that MLG can run these tournaments, it's that the accessability to running these types of tournaments becomes much easier, to the point where online only tournaments can be run and broadcast.

That involves BTB, hardocre, and even Griffball tournaments.

People are being dense when it comes to spectator mode and its uses.

 

[Overdoziz]

So you are saying Halo would be MLGs main game (there flagship game), just because there was a spectator mode? I respect the pro's, I'm just saying, this really doesn't affect how the game plays, or anything.

Maybe in Halo 5 if you bug 343 enough.

The reason why Halo isn't on the circuit anymore is being it didn't bring in enough money. It would cost MLG (and more importantly other companies or just Halo players hosting a tournament or LAN) a lot less to set up a proper stream.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I had to fill it out again and it is even more complex now.

Yeah and now it appears that one doesn't save...I'm confused. If I click on beta tester signup again it tells me to sign up despite literally just doing it. Eh, whatevs.

Because IPv4.

We need to be IPv6 like yesterday

So much.

Oh 343 isn't maintaining that part of the budget? I thought in this situation M$ gave them the $ and 343 was in charge of what to do with it.

Thanks for the clarification.

That's where my confusion lays too lol

343 is MS. They are a branch of the MS Game Studios division.

Obviously budgeting still exists though, MS may be a massive company with absurd amounts of money, but that doesn't mean they just throw unlimited money at everything.

 

[Swarmerr]

Do you think, that Halo would have success in the MLG again? I think most of the people stopped watching, because of Halo Reach and because of SC2.

It's probably hard to say now, because we don't know much about Halo 4, but from what we have seen so far, it looks like it could be successfull again.

I doubt it. MLG is trying to make itself an esport company and I don't think halo 4 or halo for that matter can be a huge esport. That being said the reason why I and many others want a spectator mode is so that halo tournaments can be streamed by much smaller organizations and local run tournaments. I had a blast watching the arena tournament that was shown this past weekend.

 

[Nowise10]

I actually don't think I have the full understanding of what spectator mode is.

Can someone explain?

 

[Ken]

I actually don't think I have the full understanding of what spectator mode is.

Can someone explain?

You watch people playing in a game but you aren't an actual player in it?

Kind of like theater mode, but live.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Do you think, that Halo would have success in the MLG again? I think most of the people stopped watching, because of Halo Reach and because of SC2.

It's probably hard to say now, because we don't know much about Halo 4, but from what we have seen so far, it looks like it could be successfull again.

Reach pretty much ruined Halo for MLG. The state that it shipped in made it a no-go for competitive arena style gaming. By the time all of the issues had been addressed, it was too late. Interest in the game had been lost. It's too bad, too.

 

[FyreWulff]

Well a few pages ago someone said something along the lines of "343 is in charge of everything in the Halo universe."

So I guess the term "universe" is being used loosely now.

It'd be oversight. Like Nintendo and Link in Soul Calibur 2. Someone else is doing the work, they just make sure guidelines and other stuff is followed.

Oh 343 isn't maintaining that part of the budget? I thought in this situation M$ gave them the $ and 343 was in charge of what to do with it.

Thanks for the clarification.

People still use M$? Well, anyway, it's hard to tell where MS ends and 343 begins, but Microsoft has a whole PR department and an advertising agency that they use. Don't know why 343 would be handling any of that directly.

 

[Tawpgun]

I actually don't think I have the full understanding of what spectator mode is.

Can someone explain?

Allows another player to have a free roaming camera, preset camera positions, and most importantly, be able to jump into a first person view of any player.

If you want to make it better like Blops2 is doing, you can have the option to overlay an ESPN-like score to the screen among other things.

 

[YourExWife]

This is not how anything, let alone game development, works.

wut


This is me reading this and other replies in this thread today: http://i.minus.com/id5UAedyomdLd.gif

I'm done for tonight. Everyone have a pleasant evening.

 

[nexy]

A bit old but relevant?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnDhDe1Kqw&feature=plcp

 

[Ryaaan14]

I appreciate what you guys are throwing together with the spectator stuff, but don't you just love the charm of setting up safezones in Halo 3 to allow other players to actually be in the game to watch? Such amazing times were had sitting on a platform on the top of Guardian to watch 1v1s. :_P

 

[Nowise10]

Allows another player to have a free roaming camera, preset camera positions, and most importantly, be able to jump into a first person view of any player.

If you want to make it better like Blops2 is doing, you can have the option to overlay an ESPN-like score to the screen among other things.

So how would this save money for MLG? Wouldn't it be the same as recording any old game play, in a first person view of someone?

 

[Swarmerr]

A bit old but relevant?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnDhDe1Kqw&feature=plcp

0:26 made the video that's all I'm saying.

 

[Overdoziz]

Allows another player to have a free roaming camera, preset camera positions, and most importantly, be able to jump into a first person view of any player.

If you want to make it better like Blops2 is doing, you can have the option to overlay an ESPN-like score to the screen among other things.

The bolded isn't even needed. It would definitely be nice, but not necessary.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

So how would this save money for MLG? Wouldn't it be the same as recording any old game play, in a first person view of someone?

This isn't about MLG- that ship has sailed. This is about keeping the spirit of arena style competitive gaming and tournaments alive by handing over the keys to smaller leagues and to the community itself, without requiring either to make a huge investment in expensive audio/video equipment first.

 

[Akai__]

It's not that MLG can run these tournaments, it's that the accessability to running these types of tournaments becomes much easier, to the point where online only tournaments can be run and broadcast.

That involves BTB, hardocre, and even Griffball tournaments.

People are being dense when it comes to spectator mode and its uses.

In my opinion, Halo needs an other league and sure, spectator mode would help a lot. Would probably save a lot of money.

But that wasn't my point. My point was, that I don't see Halo to be successfull, in a league like MLG. Halo got canceled from MLG, because there weren't much viewers anymore and therefore less money.

I remember the good Halo 3 times, where people actually cheered for pro's. I stopped watching Halo, because I was really bored.

Halo can't compete in the MLG with games like SC2 and LoL. The amount of people watching those games, is ridiculously high.

 

[ArchedThunder]

So why is the Reach population counter stuck at one number? It has been like that for a few days now.

 

[Woorloog]

When Halo 4 hits, will we have a general OT for it and also a separate single player/Spartan Ops fiction thread (spoilers tagged)?
Asking this because it occured to me i want to discuss about the latter two (with spoiler tags of course) but i really don't want to visit any thread talking about Halo 4 multiplayer (expecting a lot of bile, hate, rage, whining, tears and etc).

 

[Released]

So how would this save money for MLG? Wouldn't it be the same as recording any old game play, in a first person view of someone?

No, it wouldn't be the same.

The equipment required to capture 8 POVs and cycle through them is VERY expensive. A spectator mode would make it to where you could broadcast a game while capturing only 1 POV (the spectator).

 

[NobleGundam]

I don't know anything about game developing or whatever it involves so don't rage at this post:
How come CoD can have both 60fps, and spectator mode? Is it because their graphics are crap, or there aren't as many explosions going on at once? Or is it something else like 343 has money issues?

(Yes I know 343 shouldn't have money issues as they're being pretty much sponsered by Microsoft).

lol

A bit old but relevant?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnDhDe1Kqw&feature=plcp

0:26 made the video that's all I'm saying.

Ship It and Sell It!

 

[Tashi]

We can't have a spectator mode. Griffball tournaments will be all that people watch. It will ruin competitive Halo

 

[Rand0m TAG]

We can't have a spectator mode. Griffball tournaments will be all that people watch. It will ruin competitive Halo

You forgot about horse

 

[BigShow36]

In my opinion, Halo needs an other league and sure, spectator mode would help a lot. Would probably save a lot of money.

But that wasn't my point. My point was, that I don't see Halo to be successfull, in a league like MLG. Halo got canceled from MLG, because there weren't much viewers anymore and therefore less money.

I remember the good Halo 3 times, where people actually cheered for pro's. I stopped watching Halo, because I was really bored.

Halo can't compete in the MLG with games like SC2 and LoL. The amount of people watching those games, is ridiculously high.

Halo needs competitively viable gameplay first.

 

[Arnie]

A bit old but relevant?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnDhDe1Kqw&feature=plcp

Applause.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I don't think it's about comparing games as much as it is comparing developers.

Sure, MW3 and BO2 will use the same engine that CoD has used for a while now, with their minor tweaks.

However, Halo 4 will be using a tweaked engine from Halo: Reach as well.

Halo 4 has had a 4 year development cycle with DLC outsourced to Certain Affinity. BO2 has had a 2 year development cycle but managed to add in things Halo players and CoD players, especially in the competitive scene, have wanted.

Treyarch notoriously was the first CoD game to have everything unlocked on LAN, H4 followed suit with this.

Treyarch also managed to include a spectator mode AND bot matches for training, catering towards newer players and competitive leagues.

Halo has been asking for these for a while, with no true word on a spectator mode other than "we're looking into it" and "it's a bandwidth hog."

Halo: Reach ranking, or lack there of, was complained about in various respects, both good and bad, from a wide range of communities. Outside of boosting and cheating, Halo 2 and 3's leveling system seemed far superior to the people actually playing the game (aka not the developers or publishers) than Reach's.

However, 343i has only said "they're looking into it." We don't even know if ranks will be visible, how they will play into the EXP system that spans both "Spartan Ops" and "War Games," or much else for that matter.

Treyarch, seeing how well like Starcraft 2's ranking system is and how heavily it is praised, not to mention how FUNCTIONAL it is in matching like-minded and like-skilled players, decided to hint at its implementation in BO2 directly on twitter following their MP reveal trailer.

Finally, Treyarch had the balls to not only just improve their spectator mode, but DIRECTLY throw a bone to the competitive community by having hastr0 shoutcast the final seconds of their reveal trailer showing off that not only do they have a spectator mode, but it includes in-game overlays for the teams, score, and player names.

Even though Treyarch arguably says less with the videos they release, they far and away reveal MORE in those actual trailers about their game and what players will be getting.

Ultimately, I still don't think it fair to compare the developers directly, nor the games as they are at different points in their life cycle. Also, while Halo 4 has been in development for a while, it may have not been full burn development for the entire time bat rather pre-production. You also have to look at everything Halo 4 has added, its quite a lot. So while its easy to point fingers at 343, we do have to realize they really have poured a ton of content into this game, and it really isn't fair to compare. Even so, I agree with a lot of points made here.

Sorry if this general knowledge - simply wanted to clarify. When 343 said they don't have the "bandwidth" for spectator mode. I'm pretty confident they're talking about internal/development resources. Not that the game couldn't handle the bandwidth.

Actually I'll go further - Here's my thinking on why we won't get a bunch of innovative MP special features.

343 MUST nail Halo4. If they don't create an outstanding Halo experience, reviewers will be quick to shit on them for falling short of Bungie's iterations. 343 knows this. Big shoes to fill - per say.

So what is Halo? It's not spectator mode. It's not clan rankings or whatever other features the wrongfully titled "vocal minority" are asking for. 343 would rather use their bandwidth (see: development resources) to spend time improving and polishing Campaign/Spartan Ops and multiplayer to ensure a good Halo game. I don't blame them.

But you better believe - Once Halo4 sells well and 343 is trusted with the Halo franchise, Halo 5 will start to branch out with some of the original requests we've made.

Agreed. It makes sense that 343 is more focused on other parts of development, I only wish they would be more transparent at times. Bungie wasn't perfect at this either, but they certainty succeeded at getting more info out than 343, even if just by words in weekly updates.

If their "bandwidth issues" are because they're using resources for something like a live action film instead of working on their actual game, color me a super sad panda.

I'd actually argue that a spectator mode would help sell a game more two or three years into the future than a live action promo would on initial release.

I really doubt the game budget is the same as advertisement and expanded universe budget.. While some people from 343 do handle those areas, they are most likely entirely a different branch of the business.

 

[Akai__]

Halo needs competitively viable gameplay first.

I adressed this point in my 1st post, but you are right.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I just got a 14,000+ cR game of Grifball (6000+ performance alone)... is this... typical?

Well, you did have to play Griffball to get them.

 

[ArbiterMajor]

A bit old but relevant?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnDhDe1Kqw&feature=plcp

Interesting video.

 

[Portugeezer]

I don't know anything about game developing or whatever it involves so don't rage at this post:
How come CoD can have both 60fps, and spectator mode? Is it because their graphics are crap, or there aren't as many explosions going on at once? Or is it something else like 343 has money issues?

(Yes I know 343 shouldn't have money issues as they're being pretty much sponsered by Microsoft).

COD has basic graphics and more limited gameplay (as far as map size and what you can do, i.e. no vehicles), this is how they keep 60fps, this is why also their desire to have 60fps limits what they can do.

I seriously think the developers want to do more with COD but it always comes down to the 60fps limit, though BLOPS 2 graphics looked nice.

 

[Swarmerr]

Halo needs competitively viable gameplay first.

It's sad to think but what if that ship has already sailed?

 

[Blissful]

Competitive Ranking System > Spectator Mode.
I really hope 343 has come up with something to actually put in the game by now...

 

[Akai__]

It's sad to think but what if that ship has already sailed?

Then it's going to be like Reach...

However, Halo 4 gameplay looks great to me, even with all those things, like AA's and so on.

Edit:

Competitive Ranking System > Spectator Mode.
I really hope 343 has come up with something to actually put in the game by now...

This is something really important, too. If you want to train for your next tourney, you will proabably need to play against people, which can compete with you. It's not a good training for pro's to poop on kids in playlists, in which they play against newbies or people which just suck.

 

[Tawpgun]

We can't have a spectator mode. Griffball tournaments will be all that people watch. It will ruin competitive Halo

I'm actually hyped for this. I LOVED grifball in Halo 3 because of the hammer physics. You can't do as many in air/launch manuevers in Reach. Or not as well anyway.

With objective throwing, and a hopefully Halo 3 like hammer... could be really fun.

 

[Swarmerr]

Competitive Ranking System > Spectator Mode.
I really hope 343 has come up with something to actually put in the game by now...

Ummmm well... I agree completely lol. As much as I love hopping on the spectator mode bandwagon I will jump off at anytime for the hope of a skill based rank system.

Then it's going to be like Reach...

However, Halo 4 gameplay looks great to me, even with all those things, like AA's and so on.

I don't think any of us have really thought about it, but what if halo 4 is worse than reach? Wth would we do?

 

[Steelyuhas]

I'm actually hyped for this. I LOVED grifball in Halo 3 because of the hammer physics. You can't do as many in air/launch manuevers in Reach. Or not as well anyway.

With objective throwing, and a hopefully Halo 3 like hammer... could be really fun.

We don't even know if the Hammer is in the game. We don't even know if Assault is in the game!

 

[a zoojoo]

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/726728/halo-4-spartan-laser-video-leaks/

GAF>Internet>GAF>YouTube>G4

 

[BigShow36]

It's sad to think but what if that ship has already sailed?

Then I'll keep on bitching until Halo 5 gets released and so on and so on. That ship could return to port with, literally, about 3 extra custom options. Obviously there's a whole slew of things I'd like to see changed, but we could make huge strides with a few key features.

 

[Stinkles]

Allocating money and resources to various areas of development is not how anything works? ..or were you agreeing with me?

Other budgets aren't taken or withheld from game development budgets. And budgets aren't necessarily barriers to technology. Etc etc.

In short, nobody is robbing Peter to pay Paul, tehcnically or fiscally.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I don't think any of us have really thought about it, but what if halo 4 is worse than reach? Wth would we do?

Melt teh interwebz.

 

[Woorloog]

I don't think any of us have really thought about it, but what if halo 4 is worse than reach? Wth would we do?

It is kinda hard to go any lower than Reach without being a complete mess. So far everything i've seen has been an improvement. It doesn't need much to get out of the pit of Reach.
Now, if it somehow manages to be weaker than Reach... Wonder what i'd do.
Become fully a PC player i guess, Halo is pretty much the only thing that keeps me on 360. And even it cannot sell the next gen consoles to me*.


*Until both Halo 5 and 6 have been released and i can get NextBox for very cheap.

 

[CyReN]

I would watch a Grifball tourney.

 

[Swarmerr]

Then I'll keep on bitching until Halo 5 gets released and so on and so on. That ship could return to port with, literally, about 3 extra custom options. Obviously there's a whole slew of things I'd like to see changed, but we could make huge strides with a few key features.

What three custom options did you have in mind?

Other budgets aren't taken or withheld from game development budgets. And budgets aren't necessarily barriers to technology. Etc etc.

In short, nobody is robbing Peter to pay Paul, tehcnically or fiscally.

So then what is the official reason for why spectator mode is not in halo 4?