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[Tashi]

It's not a question of needing it in order to motivate you... it's that if it's there, it provides a little more juice, and makes it more enjoyable for competitive people who like that juice.

Well Ray said he needed the ranks to give him an incentive to play. Then you said, exactly. Sounds like the ranks create motivation to play as well as more incentive to play competitively.

For me, ranks would be nice. Yea man, that 50 5 Star General next to my name in Halo 3 MLG is fucking beautiful. And on the rare occasions that I went on a losing streak and lost my 50, I was pissed and I fuckin played until I got it back. I was embarrassed to not have it always. Once you get to 50 though, what then? The ranks don't matter. What matters is who you're actually playing against. The good players you recognize. The Pros and semi pros. The kids with points and the guys who came out of nowhere. It's basically how it is now. The only difference is that Reach matchmaking is shit (loose true skill restrictions, loose party size restrictions)and these matches against top players happen much less often.

 

[Risen]

Would Seasonal play/ranking and tight skill matching replace this 1-50 idea you guys have?

Frequent online tournaments?

Or does it have to be all ranked all the time?

Depends on how implemented...

I don't like seasonal play and starting over, it gives me a feeling that my time invested was somewhat wasted and I now have to do it all over again in a new season. Tight skill matching is a must in ranked play, so that's a given.

I like Over's idea a lot of losing rank progressively with lack of play... it's not starting over, but it does mean you have to play to keep your rank.

Online tournaments scratch a competitive itch for sure, but it's not the same as ranked lists for day to day play.

 

[daedalius]

Don't take my post the wrong way, I do like ranking systems. I was just noting that to me the difference between having one and not having one is smaller than to others.

I know and love the feeling (especially in halo 2) of playing all those matches at 42 (or whatever) and being in a very close match where you know you'll hit 43 if you win, and pulling it out in the last seconds. It's very satisfying. That being said, I've had matches like that in Reach (albeit less) and they've been just as satisfying without the number. I think it more lies in the game's ability to match based on skill. Something Reach does poorly.

I'd be all for ranks in 4, but it won't kill me if they aren't there.

EDIT: If they could do in-game tournaments that would be awesome. Wasn't MS working on a tournament system for Live? Would be cool if there were weekly tourneys in 4.

I think tight skill-matching is really something they need; be it a special playlist or something you can tick on in options.

I don't really see the need for a 1-50 system(as in, you have a rank and always have it for the life of the game, i.e. 'get my 50') if there is frequent seasonal resets/tournaments; isn't this something SC2 does?

Depends on how implemented...

I don't like seasonal play and starting over, it gives me a feeling that my time invested was somewhat wasted and I now have to do it all over again in a new season. Tight skill matching is a must in ranked play, so that's a given.

I like Over's idea a lot of losing rank progressively with lack of play... it's not starting over, but it does mean you have to play to keep your rank.

Online tournaments scratch a competitive itch for sure, but it's not the same as ranked lists for day to day play.

But that's the point of a season...

you start over and show you are the best, again.

 

[L1NETT]

I think we found us our Halo 4 dubstepster (is that a word?)

A certain Alvin Risk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZMFTXZ294

Sorry if old.

 

[Tashi]

I think we found us our Halo 4 dubstepster (is that a word?)

A certain Alvin Risk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZMFTXZ294

YES!!!! I love you

Now is this a song he made just for Halo 4 or is it some 343 is licensing?

 

[Homeboyd]

I like Over's idea a lot of losing rank progressively with lack of play... it's not starting over, but it does mean you have to play to keep your rank.

I like that as well. Would you be in favor of keeping the "highest skill/rank achieved?" So it could still serve as a trophy/milestone that you got there, but while you're playing in those games to keep your rank, you may have dropped.

 

[Plywood]

I think we found us our Halo 4 dubstepster (is that a word?)

A certain Alvin Risk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZMFTXZ294

BUTT EYE THAWT ET WUZ SKRILECKS!!!11

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Agreed, the lose rank if you don't play system sounds cool actually. Be interesting to see it implemented.

 

[TCKaos]

I called the BR using Megabloks, so I'll go ahead and call

Spoiler

the Spectre

. Believe.

Please 343i please bring it back and buff the ever loving fuck out of the turret. I loved that thing so much.

Also, there's a crimson drop pod set that's going to have an Elite General, which should be nice. I didn't really want to pick up the huge Seraph set to get that figure. That Cryo-pod set sounds nice, too.

 

[Risen]

Well Ray said he needed the ranks to give him an incentive to play. Then you said, exactly. Sounds like the ranks create motivation to play as well as more incentive to play competitively.

For me, ranks would be nice. Yea man, that 50 5 Star General next to my name in Halo 3 MLG is fucking beautiful. And on the rare occasions that I went on a losing streak and lost my 50, I was pissed and I fuckin played until I got it back. I was embarrassed to not have it always. Once you get to 50 though, what then? The ranks don't matter. What matters is who you're actually playing against. The good players you recognize. The Pros and semi pros. The kids with points and the guys who came out of nowhere. It's basically how it is now. The only difference is that Reach matchmaking is shit (loose true skill restrictions, loose party size restrictions)and these matches against top players happen much less often.

My exactly quoted his entire statement... you picked like 5 words of it and made it only about that. Sorry if I misunderstood...

You answered your own question... "Once you get to 50 though, what then?" You were embarrassed to not have it always. You were pissed and played until you got it back. You played to keep it. The goal changed from attaining it, to keeping it, and it added juice to your experience. Wins were different with it than without it because of the importance you placed on it.

That's the value in it. It does provide incentive... not the ONLY incentive, or ONLY motivation, and that incentive may change once you have it, but there were people who spent YEARS trying to get a 50 - because it was a goal to shoot for and that tiny number added value to their experience.

But that's the point of a season...

you start over and show you are the best, again.

I get that's a different view point on the same process... I'm not debating the merits of a system that people like or dislike based on their personal opinion... but that turns what is an enjoyable process into a grind for me. It does give me the feeling of starting over (and that is negative in my mind, not positive). It also means that "tight skill matching" will not be possible at the start and you will just crush bad kids on the way up until the system figures you out... and that will happen over and over and over again. I'd rather play 50's perpetually once I attained that goal than start over repeatedly.

 

[Overdoziz]

I like that as well. Would you be in favor of keeping the "highest skill/rank achieved?" So it could still serve as a trophy/milestone that you got there, but while you're playing in those games to keep your rank, you may have dropped.

I think your overall grade (like General in Halo 3) should reflect your current highest rank, not the highest rank you got at one point. This should discourage people from buying 50's. In Halo 3 if you check someone's service record they will essentially always be level 50
s even if they already dropped down from their 50.

 

[Navidson REC]

Letting players mix and match armor and armor mods lets everyone have fun dressing up their virtual Barbie Spartan, but gameplay should be king. I would rather tie armor - at least part of the armor - to the armor mod and restrict the visual customization options at bit so that player abilities are visually signaled to others in-game. It's a trade off that would be more than worth it. If 343 hasn't done this in some way, I think it's a pretty big design miss. Hopefully it's something they considered.

You're right. At least (conspicuous) parts of the armor should be a trade-off most people should be happy with.

And your parallel is a good one: I haven't played Halo 1 or 2 multi in a long time, but I think it would be really weird to not see each players' secondary weapons. Seeing a dude with rockets on his back will make me approach him differently than a dude with a pistol strapped to his leg.
Then again, these specializations won't make as much of a difference as actual weapons. But we simply don't know the difference at the moment. I'm really curious about the actual extent of their effectiveness... It's hard to gauge.

On a very related note: Why is there no secondary weapon indicator on the HUD in Halo 4?

 

[Steelyuhas]

For kylej from 343.

+10

been playing metroid prime all day.

so fucking glad 343 got some of those guys. forgot how incredible this game is

Games never gets old, so good.

You're seriously missing out if your concern was over the start menu, I can't emphasize this enough.

Start screen>

I'd be happy to never play slayer again in BTB.

So would everyone in here, 343 responded by making a mostly objective playlist almost entirely Slayer. Yay.

Reach BTB is still around 3000-4000 people.

Typically 6000-8000 actually, very popular.

Spoiler

Which is even more impressive considering how bad the playlist is.

On a very related note: Why is there no secondary weapon indicator on the HUD in Halo 4?

Very curious about this as well. 343 said it was fixed from the E3 build, but there wasn't any secondary weapons in the HUD in the UNSC weapons video and Frank said that footage was about a week old (from last week).

 

[Bsigg12]

I think your overall grade (like General in Halo 3) should reflect your current highest rank, not the highest rank you got at one point. This should discourage people from buying 50's. In Halo 3 if you check someone's service record they will essentially always we level 50
s even if they already dropped down from their 50.

So more of an aggregate 1-50. I can role with that idea. Sorry I'm just getting into the conversation, I got on, saw your comment and actually really liked the concept.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm somewhat ambivalent to a visual skill-based rank, but I really hope Spartan Ops has some kind of skill based matching in it. Carrying randoms in Reach's Firefight is frustrating. I know with lockstep networking quality of connection is king, but I hope skill is at least a factor. It would have a material impact on the quality of the experience.

Speaking of which, I hope 343 discusses net code improvements soon. Black screen still there in multiplayer? How's the Spartan Ops lag?

 

[DeadNames]

Typically 6000-8000 actually, very popular.

Spoiler

Which is even more impressive considering how bad the playlist is.

I like Big Team... :'(.

Speaking of which, I hope 343 discusses net code improvements soon. Black screen still there in multiplayer? How's the Spartan Ops lag?

Oh God... I forgot about that. Lag in FF is unbelievable... It would ruin my Spartan Ops experience if I had the same lag.

Also Frank/Ellis... When is the Halo 4 "weapons" category on the site going to be updated?

 

[Tashi]

My exactly quoted his entire statement... you picked like 5 words of it and made it only about that. Sorry if I misunderstood...

You answered your own question... "Once you get to 50 though, what then?" You were embarrassed to not have it always. You were pissed and played until you got it back. You played to keep it. The goal changed from attaining it, to keeping it, and it added juice to your experience. Wins were different with it than without it because of the importance you placed on it.

That's the value in it. It does provide incentive... not the ONLY incentive, or ONLY motivation, and that incentive may change once you have it, but there were people who spent YEARS trying to get a 50 - because it was a goal to shoot for and that tiny number added value to their experience.

oh lol my bad. It wasn't a direct reply to you anyway but I thought you had bolded that line in Ray's post but it turns he bolded it.

I know there are people who took forever to get a 50. I was one of them. I was stuck on like a 43 for so long. But even since Halo 2 I just wanted to play against the best players. That's my motivation. Ranks just presented a way of letting me know how I was doing on my trip to get there. Same goes for StarCraft. I don't want to be pinned as someone who doesn't care for ranks or doesn't want them. All I'm saying is that if Halo 4 has no ranks per playlist, it's not going to change much for me. I'm still going to get into matchmaking and try my best to win. Unless I come across you in matchmaking, then I'm probably just going to hunt you down exclusively and tea bag you every time

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

On a very related note: Why is there no secondary weapon indicator on the HUD in Halo 4?

They said the HUD was missing some things like that back at E3, so I'm assuming just an older build. Otherwise, why would they remove that?

..but then again why would they remove the Grenade Launcher..

 

[StalkerUKCG]

How about a system like this for the Hardcore players.

Arena 2.0

Team Slayer 4v4
Team Objective 4v4

Both Playlists carry a skill ranking of 1-50. Weapons spawn on map, no custom loadouts.

Battle Rifle + Pistol
DMR + Pistol
Carbine + Pistol

The last week of the month players are are rated differently. For this period your rank becomes locked and you instead compete for a Arena ranking. This is ranked based on various factors and ultimately pretty similar to how arena divisions work now. The key point being that diversion you end up in gets saved to your profile and aids in matchmaking processes.

So for instance by the end of month 4 top tier players like Ninja would have Lvl 50 (4 Onyx) were as a player like Kyle or Juices would have Lvl 50 (1 onyx 3 gold) so now its going to filter players to even closer skill gaps.

These playlists are free of any type of credit earning and nothing unlockable is tied to them. Its all about showing off your skill.

Rank's reduce at the rate of one level per entire week of not playing meaning that cheating to earn that 50 or selling accounts becomes a moot point.

You might of bought a Lvl 50 (5 Onyx) account but the next week its going to be a Lvl 49 and the week after its going to be a lvl 48.

Players at the lower end of the spectrum like me for instance will still get a Onyx if we win every game and play well in the division week but its going to be imprinted with the fact i obtained it while locked at a Lvl 26.

So basically in your player profile card you would have.

Current Level = 35
Month 1 Onyx (level 14)
Month 2 Onyx (level 17)
Month 3 Onyx (level 14)
ect
ect

 

[Risen]

Unless I come across you in matchmaking, then I'm probably just going to hunt you down exclusively and tea bag you every time

You better hope it's an east coast connection when you find me.

 

[The Librarian]

Ho'kay, that was a lot of reading.

I guess I'll comment on the video first. I very much enjoyed the music I was hearing. In fact, halfway through the video, I realized I was watching the video for the music as much as anything else. The majority of the expanded in-game gameplay snippets we saw got me really excited for the campaign. The desert sequence looks glorious.

I very much appreciate the specifics laid out in the Bulletin, even if some of the gameplay elements for the mods remain a bit vague. Thanks to Jess for writing that all up. I feel like I have a good understanding of how a player will progress through the ranks. I think I'll choose Tracker when I can because I'm really liking this planetary symbol:

I'm officially calling dibs on this. I'll use that if the Librarian symbol isn't in the game, which I'm still very much hoping it is. Specializations: Don't do it for the mods, do it so your Spartan will look his or her best on the battlefield!

Karl, I'd love to come to your achievement party. Thanks to The Henery (thank you again!), I now have that code that will allow me to get the remaining Defiant achievements. I need "All Alone," "Don't Touch That!" and "Paper Beats Rock."

New article:
http://www.edge-online.com/features/taking-halo-4s-forerunners

"Taking on Halo 4's Forerunners"

Another good Halo write-up from Edge.

With Over talking about 1-50...I don't think I could do another 2-3 years without ranks, I stop playing Reach after a few months and returned when NB came out because I just had no reason to get on, it wasn't enjoyable. Granted it could have been because of no bloom and a lack of maps too. Now I'm bored again with Reach, give me incentive to play, I don't care about daily challenges, jackpots, or getting my character up in experience. I want to play the best and lose to the best with visual representation into what I've accomplished online. It isn't about shit talking, bragging, or trying to sell accounts. Without it you've lost a lot of fans that already sold off or stop playing Reach already and decided to give Halo another shot with Halo 4. I just hope there's something there. I <3 you all.

I understand that ranks bring a lot of fun to the game for many players. However, what's important to keep in mind, in my opinion, is that, ultimately, the greatest incentive to keep playing a game is good base gameplay. Almost everything else amounts to bells and whistles. The rest will follow.

Actually, if I had to put everything into tiers in order of importance to keep players coming back:

Tier 1
A. Good base gameplay

Tier 2
A. Map Quality
B. Map and gametype combinations (playlist management)

Tier 3
A. Everything else (may be further broken down)

 

[Tashi]

You better hope it's an east coast connection when you find me.

Lolz as if it matters. Play me 1v1 kid!!!

 

[Risen]

Lolz as if it matters. Play me 1v1 kid!!!

Octagon... H3... my host... NAOW!

On a serious note... you playing this evening? Think I'll hop on Halo around 5 central.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Halo 4 needs a E-Sport armor effect, claps and cheers like at a big sporting event everytime you kill people. When you get an overkill the crowd goes wild and starts chanting TASHI TASHI TASHI.

 

[Tashi]

Octagon... H3... my host... NAOW!

On a serious note... you playing this evening? Think I'll hop on Halo around 5 central.

Uhhhhh yea I can probably get on and play with you. I fixed my headset again so I'm good to go.

 

[thezerofire]

Octagon... H3... my host... NAOW!

On a serious note... you playing this evening? Think I'll hop on Halo around 5 central.

if this happens, stream it.

 

[Risen]

if this happens, stream it.

I'll be able to do that in Black Ops 2 and you will be able to shout cast it... just sayin'.

Halo 4 needs a E-Sport armor effect, claps and cheers like at a big sporting event everytime you kill people. When you get an overkill the crowd goes wild and starts chanting TASHI TASHI TASHI.

Would be for the Triple

 

[CyReN]

I'll be able to do that in Black Ops 2 and you will be able to shout cast it... just sayin'.



Would be for the Triple

We can have u4iX analysis the live stream casting if needed and upload it to THC.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

They need Stone Cold Steve Austin's "glass shatters" effect for when you break the Tashi ceiling.

 

[Risen]

Uhhhhh yea I can probably get on and play with you. I fixed my headset again so I'm good to go.

My daughter just reminded me... I have to take her to the school at 6:30 so likely won't be on till 8 my time.

Ray... get on and play too... it's been forever and I miss your warmth.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Classic? No. Barebones, Yes. If anything Reach has shown that trying to replicate the gameplay of the last game doesnt work in a new game. The split has to be between all the jazz and the game without all the jazz. Not between the "feel". Also this should only be done if H4 is going to carry good trueskill MM even without a high population. Else youre just going to have fractured pools of players and shitty MM again.

 

[lilty]

I don't know if I need a 1-50 true skill system that is visible. In Halo 3, I didn't really care about getting my level 50 until 2009, 2 years after the game had been released. I still played ranked playlists, mainly MLG but I was perfectly content with being a level 44 or whatever I was in that playlist. I kept playing the game every day because it was fun, and I was getting close and competitive games. While I did eventually strive to get the 50 (which I did) it wasn't the only reason I kept playing the game.

If Halo 4 can give me a similar experience then it will be a success. I know that true skill was apparently hidden in Reach and it didn't work well, but I believe if the primary tool for matching players is skill instead of speed then we will be having a good time come November. I'm not against the credit system, as long as there is true skill in there somewhere. I just don't care if I can see my true skill level or not.

 

[CyReN]

My daughter just reminded me... I have to take her to the school at 6:30 so likely won't be on till 8 my time.

Ray... get on and play too... it's been forever and I miss your warmth.

Heading out in a bit for class, and finals next week after that for a bit. After that I will be on to play.

I'll look up some old film later and put it up on my file share if you need help in game.

 

[thezerofire]

I don't know if I need a 1-50 true skill system that is visible. In Halo 3, I didn't really care about getting my level 50 until 2009, 2 years after the game had been released. I still played ranked playlists, mainly MLG but I was perfectly content with being a level 44 or whatever I was in that playlist. I kept playing the game every day because it was fun, and I was getting close and competitive games. While I did eventually strive to get the 50 (which I did) it wasn't the only reason I kept playing the game.

If Halo 4 can give me a similar experience then it will be a success. I know that true skill was apparently hidden in Reach and it didn't work well, but I believe if the primary tool for matching players is skill instead of speed then we will be having a good time come November. I'm not against the credit system, as long as there is true skill in there somewhere. I just don't care if I can see my true skill level or not.

True Skill was not only hidden, it was mostly not even used so that matchmaking times were quicker. Which is why you'll get a game in seconds in Reach, but it might take a few minutes in 3.

 

[lilty]

True Skill was not only hidden, it was mostly not even used so that matchmaking times were quicker. Which is why you'll get a game in seconds in Reach, but it might take a few minutes in 3.

That's kind of what I figured. I don't care if I have to wait a few minutes if I mean I'm going to get a good game. 343 must know that's how a lot of people feel by now.

 

[Fracas]

I'm curious as to how pervasive the "Infinity" flavor will be in matchmaking.

Will there be an "Infinity Slayer" and "Team Slayer"? Will there be a BTB Infinity variant?

I really, really hope it stays out of objective gametypes.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Thanks to The Henery (thank you again!)

Top man, the only flaw is that he supports Portsmouth.

Also, I'm considering changing my emblem, seeming as they have abstract ones now.

But I've had my pheonix since H2.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Classic? No. Barebones, Yes. If anything Reach has shown that trying to replicate the gameplay of the last game doesnt work in a new game. The split has to be between all the jazz and the game without all the jazz. Not between the "feel". Also this should only be done if H4 is going to carry good trueskill MM even without a high population. Else youre just going to have fractured pools of players and shitty MM again.

Yep, less playlists means for more people in each playlist and a better MM experience. Better trueskill matches, connection, party matching, and DLC likelihood if you have less playlists with more people in each one.

If I go into Team Slayer in Reach, I will get consistently better trueskill matches, way less matching against full parties, and better connections that Super Slayer.

 

[heckfu]

But I've had my pheonix since H2.

As have I. Recently switched to the wolf...but I don't know why.

 

[Swarmerr]

Dubious about multiplayer right now.

If ranks are put in place (skill based rank) I will be a happy camper.

Campaign, well hype levels are off the chart for that.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

As have I. Recently switched to the wolf...but I don't know why.

Bro.

 

[Defect]

been playing metroid prime all day.

so fucking glad 343 got some of those guys. forgot how incredible this game is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RANQMlsucF8&list=FLTpcMW-1vubpE6abx6CYVdA&index=9&feature=plpp_video

Those strafe jumps.

Some of those guys probably came up with Promethean Vision/Dark Visor.

 

[Enfinit]

Bro.

What the FUCK?

 

[Gunnerdude]

Please let The Halo Council have a playlist where they can upload proper map remakes with proper settings.

Zero interest in playing a half baked version of COD with BRs or playing on enormous maps made by 343 with "classic" settings. Having Walshy, Bravo, and other MLG people in prior to release is my beacon of hope for Halo 4 multiplayer.

BREAKING NEWS!

I agree with a statement from kylej

 

[Risen]

Heading out in a bit for class, and finals next week after that for a bit. After that I will be on to play.

I'll look up some old film later and put it up on my file share if you need help in game.

The only help I get from you in game is you making it evident that old people must carry young people's dead weight... even in video games.

 

[Der Flatulator]

Did I miss the discussion of these recently 'announced' weapons?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Did I miss the discussion of these recently 'announced' weapons?

Wasn't really much discussion, all we know at this point is the names.

 

[TheOddOne]

I think we found us our Halo 4 dubstepster (is that a word?)

A certain Alvin Risk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZMFTXZ294

I have to say I fucking love the chants. Sound irrie.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Wasn't really much discussion, all we know at this point is the names.

I wonder if we can change the colour scheme of the weapon skins?

Edit: Holy moly, playing bioshock 2 MP At the mo, seems pretty populated.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Bro.

I deeply regret clicking on this link.

Deeply regret! Let my mistake serve as a warning to others.