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[u4iX]

Jetpacks are an inherent part of the game. The map's "flow", or pathing, did not originally have a state in which the jetpacks don't exist in the shipping game. They even mentioned making adjustments to Reflection to accomodate jetpack usage by making the ceiling higher and the sniper rifle ledge bigger to make it easier to land on.

While I think they could have been nerfed a bit (should have had a short usage so they were more of a jump pack than a hover), you trade being able to jump up a level by the inability to speed your way to your destination with sprint or protecting yourself with armor lock. You also make a very loud noise as you do so, so you're definitely trading being covert away. Finally, you have a gigantic thing on your back that makes you easier to see and get stuck with.

You could use a grenade jump in a similar way in Halo 2 to go backwards through the seawall on Zanzibar, even though it was intended as a one-way trip for the offense to attack from. The grav lift made it easier to do in 3, but I don't see people claiming the grav lift broke map flow. It IS the map's flow. If you don't want a jetpacker to be able to go up somewhere, you put a damn ceiling or soft kill down. It's not that hard. Bungie's designers weren't fucking helplessly watching as jetpacks rampaged all over their maps, and the idea that they would be helpless to consider the jetpack's impact on the maps is insulting.

Grenade jumping causes damage to the player, as well as wasting a grenade.

Risk/Reward.

Map control and the control of power positions has always been a key part to Halo's multiplayer, and breaking that with a push of a button is not a good thing.

That being said, I think the "Jet Pack" should serve more as a double jump, like you suggested.

 

[heckfu]

I'm excited

Spoiler

to thrust against you.

Biggyyyyy, not in public!

 

[Gabotron ES]

Vid or didn't happen...

I'm from my phone right now, it was one of the very first footage and I recall the encounter happening right in the middle of Haven.

 

[u4iX]

glitches ruined 2 for me..... :/ I was a 33 I think but most game were glitch paradise. :/ I just wanted to play the game. They were amazing fun for about a month though

Glitch paradise as in you were contantly getting BXR'd?

What playlist were you a 33 in, and when you say "glitch paradise" are you including things like super jumping that also ruined your experience?

 

[Tashi]

It was in the game and affected gameplay for the better, glitch or not.

You also suggested putting a built in super jump in your "perfect Halo."

In your opinion it did. I think CQC battles were very lame because most of the time they played out in only 2 ways. BXR or BXB. To each his own though.

What excites me about Halo 4, from the people I've talked to, there's a far less emphasis on CQC and melee battles. Very much a "gun game". I've progressively been getting fed up with insane lunges and melees bailing out players who can't shoot their gun.

 

[Swarmerr]

need 1 for skirmish

3 for soial slayer

 

[789shadow]

In your opinion it did. I think CQC battles were very lame because most of the time they played out in only 2 ways. BXR or BXB. To each his own though.

What excites me about Halo 4, from the people I've talked to, there's a far less emphasis on CQC and melee battles. Very much a "gun game". I've progressively been getting fed up with insane lunges and melees bailing out players who can't shoot their gun.

Hopefully the correct tactic when engaging at close range isn't to sprint forward for a double melee.

need 1 for skirmish

3 for soial slayer

Will get on.

 

[Ramirez]

You could use a grenade jump in a similar way in Halo 2 to go backwards through the seawall on Zanzibar, even though it was intended as a one-way trip for the offense to attack from. The grav lift made it easier to do in 3, but I don't see people claiming the grav lift broke map flow. It IS the map's flow. If you don't want a jetpacker to be able to go up somewhere, you put a damn ceiling or soft kill down, or scale the map vertically, like they did to for Tombstone to accomodate Halo 2's moonjumping. It's not that hard. Bungie's designers weren't fucking helplessly watching as jetpacks rampaged all over their maps, and the idea that they would be helpless to consider the jetpack's impact on the maps is insulting.


.

That's because the GL was a one and done...

Bungie even said in their vidoc that Jetpack was crying out for abuse, and yet here we are with areas on Countdown still only accessible with jetpacks, and with no killzone, lol.

Halo 2 really was a glitcher's paradise for most of its life.

-Superjumping to the top of Zanzibar with snipers
-Standby, this happened basically every game after you reached a certain level
-Modders on Terminal, spawning into an infinite death trap in front of an Elite on a Warthog chaingun
-People throwing bombs/oddballs into spots where you couldn't grab it and it wouldn't respawn

Just off the top of my head...

 

[Overdoziz]

Jetpacks are an inherent part of the game. The map's "flow", or pathing, did not originally have a state in which the jetpacks don't exist in the shipping game. They even mentioned making adjustments to Reflection to accomodate jetpack usage by making the ceiling higher and the sniper rifle ledge bigger to make it easier to land on.

While I think they could have been nerfed a bit (should have had a short usage so they were more of a jump pack than a hover), you trade being able to jump up a level by the inability to speed your way to your destination with sprint or protecting yourself with armor lock. You also make a very loud noise as you do so, so you're definitely trading being covert away. Finally, you have a gigantic thing on your back that makes you easier to see and get stuck with.

You could use a grenade jump in a similar way in Halo 2 to go backwards through the seawall on Zanzibar, even though it was intended as a one-way trip for the offense to attack from. The grav lift made it easier to do in 3, but I don't see people claiming the grav lift broke map flow. It IS the map's flow. If you don't want a jetpacker to be able to go up somewhere, you put a damn ceiling or soft kill down, or scale the map vertically, like they did to for Tombstone to accomodate Halo 2's moonjumping. It's not that hard. Bungie's designers weren't fucking helplessly watching as jetpacks rampaged all over their maps, and the idea that they would be helpless to consider the jetpack's impact on the maps is insulting.

This is the worst post I've seen made in a long time.

 

[u4iX]

In your opinion it did. I think CQC battles were very lame because most of the time they played out in only 2 ways. BXR or BXB. To each his own though.

What excites me about Halo 4, from the people I've talked to, there's a far less emphasis on CQC and melee battles. Very much a "gun game". I've progressively been getting fed up with insane lunges and melees bailing out players who can't shoot their gun.

I agree with the emphasis on the guns rather than melee combat.

I was just saying that part of the allure in H2 was either being good at CQC battles and wanting to put yourself into those situations, or being a smart movement based player to avoid being BXR'd or BXB'd around corners.

Also, it takes about 5 minutes to learn how to quasi-effectively BXR or BXB. So if you let that ruin and tarnish your H2 matchmaking experience, I really don't know what to say.

 

[FyreWulff]

That's because the GL was a one and done...

Bungie even said in their vidoc that Jetpack was crying out for abuse, and yet here we are with areas on Countdown still only accessible with jetpacks, and with no killzone, lol.

Believe me, fixes have been submitted for a lot of the maps re: jetpack only areas and escapes. Those are definitely bad news. But dat Halo 4 grinder. Probably not gonna happen at this point.

I think you can still escape into Boardwalk's offices on the lower level.

This is the worst post I've seen made in a long time.

You just don't like Reach because you got destroyed playing it that one time.

 

[Ramirez]

Also, it takes about 5 minutes to learn how to quasi-effectively BXR or BXB. So if you let that ruin and tarnish your H2 matchmaking experience, I really don't know what to say.

Regardless of how easy it was to pull off, it wasn't fun for everyone. I used it, but I never want to see it return.

 

[TCKaos]

Wow, new thread.

Time for some news HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THIS.

 

[neoism]

Glitch paradise as in you were contantly getting BXR'd?

What playlist were you a 33 in, and when you say "glitch paradise" are you including things like super jumping that also ruined your experience?

yes to all I could do it too, but didn't like to online. hell after super jumping was found I mostly played customs with him. I was a 33 in team slayer I think but it was my cousins account. We both played the account. I only have like 80 some games on ne0ism which is my only account now. Mostly every game was the other team destroying my team with every glitch available. sometimes I was on the good team. got boring fast though

 

[daedalius]

Also, it takes about 5 minutes to learn how to quasi-effectively BXR or BXB. So if you let that ruin and tarnish your H2 matchmaking experience, I really don't know what to say.

I mean, I see where you're coming from; but just because an exploit isn't terribly hard to learn doesn't mean its good for it to exist.

I found something cool on a 3d showcasing website.

Got a WebGL compatible browser? (Practically everything other than IE)


Take a tour of a High-Poly Sub-D model of the new Warthog:

Best new thing in this thread

 

[OverHeat]

I mean, I see where you're coming from; but just because an exploit isn't terribly hard to learn doesn't mean its good for it to exist.

I agree so much with this even if thing like flag bouncing was fun

 

[Tashi]

I agree with the emphasis on the guns rather than melee combat.

I was just saying that part of the allure in H2 was either being good at CQC battles and wanting to put yourself into those situations, or being a smart movement based player to avoid being BXR'd or BXB'd around corners.

Also, it takes about 5 minutes to learn how to quasi-effectively BXR or BXB. So if you let that ruin and tarnish your H2 matchmaking experience, I really don't know what to say.

In radar gametypes I could buy trying to avoid those situations but in MLG or team hardcore it's unavoidable.

I was against the glitches when they were first discovered and tried to remain pure by not using them. But as I started to play better players I just couldn't keep. So, I adopted them. I'm not gonna lie, out BXR'ing someone or double shotting someone was satisfying but I felt like they were bailouts. I had more respect for players with great strafes, map awareness and a fast shot.

 

[The Librarian]

Deserve has nothing to do with it. I ask for such because it's a topic I'm interested in and it would be neat to hear about it. (Also, because 343's messaging about the game has been muddled and a clear channel of communication on design would help.) We are entitled to jack squat, but it's nice to have things.

And that's exactly how I feel as well. I would love them to tell us all about their design philosophy on everything, because it would be enjoyable to read.

Its different when people in here are demanding they inform us about every decision they decide to make.

These two posts are talking about something a bit different from what I was getting at with my puzzle analogy (what's in the game vs. why it's in the game), but these two posts made me think of a specific example of what I was talking about. At SDCC, 343 said that classic gametypes have been altered. We know the change for Oddball and CTF. Here we were given more puzzle pieces.

But what about King of the Hill? Assault? Territories? We'll be getting this other information through some other context – a post, a Bulletin, an interview, or a ViDoc – but that's when I feel like I'm putting puzzle pieces together. If you come out and say classic modes have been altered, I think it would be better to release the changes about all the gametypes all at once rather than just a few at a time.

Now, it could be they're not finished with the change(s) to these three gametypes, so that's why they didn't announce them. But that's one example of a broader sentiment I never felt when Bungie released information. Of course my recollection could be faulty about that.

 

[u4iX]

I mean, I see where you're coming from; but just because an exploit isn't terribly hard to learn doesn't mean its good for it to exist.

In Halo 2 it worked.

I mean, if you were lucky enough to get the horizontal BR melee animation twice in a row, it was exactly the speed of a BXB.

So, because of the way the BR was designed, there was an inherit unfair advantage based on pure luck of the draw.

Two vertical melees was the slowest.

One horizontal and one vertical was in the middle.

Two horizontal melees was the fastest, just as fast as a BXB.

So, what was actually "better" for the game?

Not to mention a BXR or BXB gave you a fair advantage against the sword, which had the huge lunge length, quick weapon switch speed that allowed for an instant swing upon taking it out of your "back pocket," and unlimited ammo.

 

[neoism]

lol at FyreWulff saying jetpack didn't fuck up map flow. Its second only to AL just behind evade as shittiest AA. I hate it. It's still on fucking Reflection if the map has a fucking ceiling it shouldn't have JP. Doesn't matter on cage because nothing could make that map shittier.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Wow, new thread.

Time for some news HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THIS.

Oh people are going to be mad about it. So mad.

 

[Falagard]

Wow, new thread.

Time for some news HOLY SHIT WHAT IS THIS.

Sweet. I may buy this.

 

[wwm0nkey]

lol at FyreWulff saying jetpack didn't fuck up map flow. Its second only to AL just behind evade as shittiest AA. I hate it. It's still on fucking Reflection if the map has a fucking ceiling it shouldn't have JP. Doesn't matter on cage because nothing could make that map shittier.

I wouldn't mind Jet Pack if either

A) It only caused you to float or descend, no lifting

B) It only had enough fuel to make it count for a grenade jumps worth of lift.

 

[Tunavi]

lol at FyreWulff saying jetpack didn't fuck up map flow. Its second only to AL just behind evade as shittiest AA. I hate it. It's still on fucking Reflection if the map has a fucking ceiling it shouldn't have JP. Doesn't matter on cage because nothing could make that map shittier.

what happened to "<3 <3 <3 AA's ?"

 

[daedalius]

In Halo 2 it worked.

I mean, if you were lucky enough to get the horizontal BR melee animation twice in a row, it was exactly the speed of a BXB.

So, because of the way the BR was designed, there was an inherit unfair advantage based on pure luck of the draw.

Two vertical melees was the slowest.

One horizontal and one vertical was in the middle.

Two horizontal melees was the fastest, just as fast as a BXB.

So, what was actually "better" for the game?

Not to mention a BXR or BXB gave you a fair advantage against the sword, which had the huge lunge length, quick weapon switch speed that allowed for an instant swing upon taking it out of your "back pocket," and unlimited ammo.

From your description, it sounds like they should have normalized melee speed, reduced sword lunge range, given the sword ammo, and not allowed you to swing it immediately upon weapon switch.

These things probably could not have been done in a patch, unfortunately, due to the archaic structure of original xbox; so therefore these 'glitches' and 'exploits' continued to exist.

These things you describe would now simply be patched out of existence, because they are bugs and exploits.

 

[u4iX]

From your description, it sounds like they should have normalized melee speed, reduced sword lunge range, given the sword ammo, and not allowed you to swing it immediately upon weapon switch.

These things probably could not have been done in a patch, unfortunately, due to the archaic structure of original xbox; so therefore these 'glitches' and 'exploits' continued to exist.

These things you describe would now simply be patched out of existence, because they are bugs and exploits.

That's what I've been saying... the glitch actually helped the game.

 

[neoism]

In Halo 2 it worked.

I mean, if you were lucky enough to get the horizontal BR melee animation twice in a row, it was exactly the speed of a BXB.

So, because of the way the BR was designed, there was an inherit unfair advantage based on pure luck of the draw.

Two vertical melees was the slowest.

One horizontal and one vertical was in the middle.

Two horizontal melees was the fastest, just as fast as a BXB.

So, what was actually "better" for the game?

Not to mention a BXR or BXB gave you a fair advantage against the sword, which had the huge lunge length, quick weapon switch speed that allowed for an instant swing upon taking it out of your "back pocket," and unlimited ammo.

lol you seem to love 2 for its bad design. I loved the glitches to an extent but it did ruin the game for a lot of people. Bungie just needed about 6 more months with the game.

 

[CyReN]

No one could touch my Halo 2 Excessive Shot.

 

[FyreWulff]

One of the player models in Halo 2 also had a slightly longer lunge distance than the other. If you walked a spartan and an Elite at each other, one of them gets a red reticule before the other does. I can't remember which one it was though.

 

[User 73706]

I don't remember seeing/hearing it anywhere; does anyone know when the Halo 4 headsets are scheduled to release?

Also, I was thinking of a feature I'd like to see in future Halos. Probably not in 4, but definitely in Halo 5/ODST: Halo 4 Dead/Promethean Wars 2: Didactic Boogaloo/whatever ends up happening. In addition to mappable player trait zones, I think we should get four custom Armor Ability slots. As far as actual settings go, it would be something like this:

Name: Alpha/Bravo/Charlie/Delta (names could just work like Reach's loadouts, maybe add some other basic options like Speed, Power, etc)

Useage:
Sustain - Once activated, this ability provides effects until it expires, similar to Ordinance powerups or Drop Shield.
Hold - The user must maintain the effect like a Jetpack or Hardlight Shield.
Toggle - The user can freely activate and deactivate this ability as they please, like Sprint.

Duration: (anywhere from 1 second to 3 minutes, and then Unlimited)

Cooldown: (anywhere from 1 second to 3 minutes, and then Unlimited

Drops when killed? Yes / No (optional but could be interesting, so that something like Thruster could be scavenged after death but Auto-Sentry couldn't)

Waypoints on map? Yes / No (four custom armor abilities could also be placeable forge objects)

Base Player Traits -->

And then you'd just modify it like a Custom Powerup. Some examples:

Jump Pack: If Jetpack breaks your map, replace it with this: a 5-second powerup gives you 50% gravity and 200% jump height. Recharge is 15 seconds.

Iron Fist: For the melee-centric. Your weapon damage is reduced to 0% but your punches are an instant kill, and your speed gets upped to 125%. 15 second duration, 60 second cooldown.

Combat Evolved Camo: if traditional camo is too worrisome, switch it to this. 30-second duration and 60-second recharge. Movement properties are inverted: stay still and you turn visible (complete with a waypoint), but constant movement will keep you cloaked. Your shields drain at about 10% per second while this is active.

Rave Party (not for competitive gametypes): 2000% damage resistance, 25% movement speed, 50% damage, and your armor cycles between the three glowing effects given off by overshield, speed boost, and damage boost. It's unlimited, go nuts.

 

[789shadow]

Wishes for Halo 4: make turning speed and sensitivity two different things.

 

[TCKaos]

So somebody found this during a Dark Knight Rises showing. I want some popcorn, anyone else want some popcorn?

 

[Slaker117]

How does FUD sell anything to anybody who wasn't "already buying the game day 1"? I'm not sure the mass market is interested in learning about the Halo universe via 5 separately released limited budget short movies on a YouTube channel. As Plywood said, the marketing lacks any type of cohesion. If us Halo nerds who talk about the series all day are frustrated by having to track down Twitter impressions or off-screen footage from Bravo's MLG videos, how does that bode for the casual Halo buyer?

Typically, I dislike your demeanor, but can see a certain validity to your points and occasionally even agree with them. This I just don't get though. Are you really suggesting that because there isn't enough information out there to satisfy us, 343 is failing to market to the casual consumer? We are the people talking about a game on a message board months before release. Of course we want more information then they are willing to tell. Our frustration is no metric to gauge general audience reaction. Those people are just going to see a trailer and go "Oh a new Halo game. Neat," or hear about it from a friend. Flash is all they need to be sold. We are the ones who demand substance, but we're the ones who will buy it anyway.

 

[Overdoziz]

Also, the raised roof on Reflection only makes Jetpackers more annoying.

 

[wwm0nkey]

No one could touch my Halo 2 Excessive Shot.

So happy this shit is gone.

 

[u4iX]

lol you seem to love 2 for its bad design. I loved the glitches to an extent but it did ruin the game for a lot of people. Bungie just needed about 6 more months with the game.

Halo 2's "accidental" design was better than Halo 3's intentional design, speaking on how the BR was designed and used.

Halo: Reach is another beast, but at its core, the player physics and reticule "feel" were superior to Halo 3's.

 

[Computron]

Anyone got a Throat Communicator/Mic? Perhaps one not made by Madcatz?

Does it pick up any noise other than your own? Would anyone recommend one? It doesn't have to be cheap...

 

[CyReN]

So happy this shit is gone.

Considering 0.01% of the population could do it in a consistent way, it wasn't a issue.

 

[neoism]

what happened to "<3 <3 <3 AA's ?"

LOL I have never loved AAs I love SPRINT, and the inertia system in Reach. is that even in 4. Reach would be the best halo ever and everyone would be playing now if sprint was the only thing "AA" wise in the game. I use sprint 99.9% of the time. So I'm really happy about Sprint in 4, but seems like they're just adding more stuff people will get pissed or hate after launch. I think I will probably use that boost AA thing to strafe and the speed boost ordinance most of my time playing 4.

 

[TCKaos]

Anyone got a Throat Communicator/Mic? Perhaps one not made by Madcatz?

Does it pick up any noise other than your own? Would anyone recommend one?

My dad bought me a MW2 special edition throat mic. It was pretty shitty back when I used it, and picks up virtually no noise whatsoever, and the noise it does pick up is a terrible garbled mess.

 

[u4iX]

Considering 0.01 of the population could do it in a consistent way, it wasn't a issue.

This.

Same with the 3sk in H1. When people talk about it, they make it seem like EVERYONE could do it 100% of the time.

Pros were lucky to consistantly 5 shot with the pistol, especially against someone with half a strafe.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Considering 0.01% of the population could do it in a consistent way, it wasn't a issue.

Don't care, BXR I was whatever with but stuff like that and normal double shooting fucking sucked.

 

[u4iX]

Don't care, BXR I was whatever with but stuff like that and normal double shooting fucking sucked.

Do you realize how hard it was to do, and it was only worth it and "safe" if you had a secondary weapon to YY cancel with?

 

[Fracas]

Anyone interested in possibly forming a party for Halo 3 tonight?

I may. Depends, I can't stay up late though. Gotta get up at 6 am.

MMM, I still have my Halo 3 Gamefuel and Doritos. Will eat in Honor of Halo 4 on Nov 6th.

They haven't expired?

Its not about competitive vs non-competitive players at this point. Its about everyone. Noone really has a home in Reach. There's no good structure. I see people constantly coming in here because they keep getting matched against teams of Inheritors stomping on them. It would make sense casuals need a team playlist that doesn't allow partying. No though. Casuals continue to get destroyed by good parties which leaves them pissed and quitting and the good players pissed they have to sit through another 4 on 1. When you get that fifth player you used to play Squad Slayer now you have to play Objective, statistically a lass favorite playlist than a slayer playlist. Yet they add another slayer 4v4? So parties of five now have less enjoyment than parties of four. What happens when you get that sixth? Its either INVASION or its up Boring Team Battle with a couple randies.

I agree.

I consider myself to be a good player, but it makes absolutely no sense that I literally cannot hop into Halo: Reach matchmaking by myself without getting matched up against at least 3 other extremely good players in a party. These last few months, Trueskill has been worse than it's ever been. The only time I ever get a competitive match is when we do HaloGAF MLG matches. Everything else is either my team steamrolling or my team getting wrecked. It's terrible.

What excites me about Halo 4, from the people I've talked to, there's a far less emphasis on CQC and melee battles. Very much a "gun game". I've progressively been getting fed up with insane lunges and melees bailing out players who can't shoot their gun.

I'm holding out for that as well. Double melee needs to die in a fire. Meleeing itself needs to be nerfed and should only be used as a last resort. Hopefully CQB matches don't end up in as many mutual beatdowns as they did in Reach/Halo 3.

 

[Woorloog]

Do you realize how hard it was to do, and it was only worth it and "safe" if you had a secondary weapon to YY cancel with?

Doesn't matter how hard it is. Existence of unfixable glitches is unacceptable. As is their use.

 

[CyReN]

Doesn't matter how hard it is. Existence of unfixable glitches is unacceptable.

Then why didn't Bungie patch them out?

 

[Woorloog]

Then why didn't Bungie patch them out?

Because they couldn't.
I seem to be recalling Bungie deeming them cheating.

 

[neoism]

Halo 2's "accidental" design was better than Halo 3's intentional design, speaking on how the BR was designed and used.

Halo: Reach is another beast, but at its core, the player physics and reticule "feel" were superior to Halo 3's.

reach>H3>h1>h2
I hated 3s spread and leading system too. Reach is the funnest and most "playable" halo for me. I'm one of the only fans of the inertia system I think I believe in "accidental design" hell h1 had a lot of that only because they didn't have a lot of time, it turned out great.

 

[CyReN]

Because they couldn't.
I seem to be recalling Bungie deeming them cheating.

I'm not going to pretend I know how to make games but it seems weird they can stop the sword glitch pre patch but not that.

I would consider them cheating in a social area, but social players don't care enough from what I've seen (this was during Halo 2). Competitively/Hardcore playlist they are safe and added a lot more to us and our skillgap.

Someone release some Halo 4 news before we start talking about ranks.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Then why didn't Bungie patch them out?

They couldn't patch the animation system. I recall 343 saying they aren't doing custom button layouts either because the animation system would cause a whole new level of BXRs and double shots.